Part of

« Reds vs. Phillies: Series open thread | Main | Dodgers vs. Phillies: Series open thread »

Tuesday, May 20, 2014


Boy, Beerleaguer is one riveting source of Phillies news. And I thought Rollins had thrown in the towel!

No, Rollins is having a much better year than Beerleaguer. I still like the conversations, however.

Continuing from the last thread. This is just my opinion and I'm sure I am missing a few.

Phillies Most Hated By Their Own Fans

10. Bobby Abreu (sounds weird now but I remember people really disliking him back then)
9. Rod Barajas
8. Travis Lee
7. Joe Cowley
6. Steve Jeltz
5. Scott Rolen
4. Adam Eaton
3. Von Hayes
2. Billy Wagner
1. J.D. Drew

Bonus is Del Ennis. I’m not on board with the hate for him, but apparently fans booed the crap out of him back in the day even though he was from Philadelphia and was a good player.

I'm pretty sure Rollins deserves an honorable mention there. Simply by virtue of how many people soured on him after the "front-runners" comment, and never had a change of heart about it.

Looks like we lost out on the Todd Coffey sweepstakes too. No slow jogs in from the BP for us.

From the last thread:

Jose Bautista's one of the strongest guys in baseball, but check out Bautista's hit result chart from 2007-2014.

He's hit 206 HR in that span. 5 have been to right-center or right field. You don't need to drive the ball out to RF. You have to be selective and crush the ones that are where you want them.

Dom, like Bautista, is a natural pull hitter. There's no reason for him to be anything else if he can let the outside pitches go by. If he forces pitchers to come over the outside half of the plate, they will make enough mistakes and leave enough middle-in for him to be an MLB-level power hitter. If they can aim everything off the outside corner, as I said earlier, he's dead in the water.


Jimmy Rollins - SS
Carlos Ruiz - C
Chase Utley - 2B
Ryan Howard - 1B
Marlon Byrd - RF
Cody Asche - 3B
Domonic Brown - LF
Tony Gwynn Jr. - CF
A.J. Burnett - P

So has Revere caught the plague, or is Ryno just letting Gwynn and JMJ work out between them who's going to get cut once they decide to promote another backup OF (Ruf?)?

Game 42: Ben Revere absent from lineup again

Ryne Sandberg said Sunday he would decide his center fielder based upon pitching matchups. Ben Revere, who entered the season entrenched in center, does not appear to have an everyday job any longer.

Interesting, Dickie.

mstairs12 ‏@mstairs12 17m
Phillies start a big series in Miami tonight. They will play 54 games in the next 55 days leading up to the all-star break/tough schedule ahead but Phillies are 1-6 following off days this season. #workthecount

So that essentially means that Revere won't start again? I mean, he has an .837 OPS vs. LHP this season, but Mayberry's 1.016 eclipses that by plenty.

On the flip side of things, it means that our CF is never going to do well against 75% of the SPs in baseball (TGJ, our best "CF" against RHP, has a .622 OPS, with Revere in second at .466), I guess?

I'm not saying I disagree, but the outfield isn't constructed in such a way that swapping our CF around constantly is going to work out great. Maybe use JMJ to spell Brown against LHP, and Revere takes CF then? That's about the best-case scenario, and still doesn't address the RHP problem.

When the other options are Gwynn well i would run Revere out. At first i thought what Philli said giving both Gwynn and JMJr more playing time to then decide who gets cut.

"Ryne Sandberg said Sunday he would decide his center fielder based upon pitching matchups."

What pitching matchup could possibly point toward Tony Gwynn as the starting centerfielder?

Tony Gwynn Sr. on the mound?

Todd Coffey sweepstakes where even the winner is ultimately a loser.

That list is missing a couple of obvious ones including Gregg Jefferies and Dick Allen. Maybe Burrell.

I would make it only for players that where here at least one year too and remove a couple including T. Lee . Fans didn't hate Lee as just realized he was a crappy everyday player who never lived up to his billing.

The "Todd Coffey sweepstakes" reminds me of the game show "The Joker's Wild," that I used to watch when I was like 10 years old, where the contestants would win stuff like dog food, rice-a-roni, and Turtle Wax. Losing the Todd Coffey Sweepstakes is like being the guy on the show who lost out on the Turtle Wax.

Would JD Drew count? I'm assuming these are the hated players while they played here... He never played he wouldn't count. And I think Rolen should be lower on the list, because his "hate" didn't occur until 2002... and was gone by mid season. The real hatred came after.

I admit that my sensibilities are not necessarily representative of all Phillies fans, but my top 10 list would go something like this.

10. Jose Mesa
9. Brian Schneider
8. Glenn Wilson
7. Delmon Young
6. Endy Chavez
5. David Bell
4. Rod Barajas
3. Michael Martinez
2. Adam Eaton
1. Eric Bruntlett

Honorable mentions: Ty Wigginton, Ben Francisco, Paul Bako, Antonio Alfonseca, Nate Schierholtz, Pedro Feliz

Though, I must admit, time and RAJ's incompetence have a way of healing all wounds. Little did I suspect, at the time, that Pedro Feliz would be the best Phillies' 3rd baseman of the last decade. Or that, 3 years after his departure, I would look back & wish we had a backup outfielder like Ben Francisco. Even the spectacularly horrible Eric Bruntlett doesn't look so bad compared to some of the stiffs that RAJ has brought in since he left.

In what world was Feliz hated BAP...? The real world not the internet. Ive not heard many negative comments about him.

What about me?

I'm not sure what's weirder: hating Bruntlett more than Adam Eaton, or hating Feliz period.

PLM: It was my own, personal top-10 list. Feliz always struck me as a swell fellow off the field but I hated him as a ball player.

I'm more likely to hate a guy if he's a bad player on an otherwise good team. I never much cared about someone like Kim Batiste, because he played on teams that were irrelevant. Except in 1993, that is, but that was actually his one halfway decent season.

One thing I do miss about the Pedro Feliz era, though, were the daily clout posts about how "Never was a player more beloved on Beerleaguer than Pedro Feliz" -- even while 95% of Beerleaguer was writing posts dumping on him.

Feliz helped the Phillies win a World Series. I hate the Phillies. Therefore I hate Perdo Feliz.

I came up with a top ten easily, but ranking them is tougher than I thought.

10) JMJ
9) Wes Helms
8) Qualls
7) Arthur Rhodes
6) DYak
5) Barajas
4) Papelbon
3) Billy Wagner
2) David Bell
1) Eaton

Lineup is fine and I understand why Gwynn over Revere in the lineup tonight.

Just hate to see that it means the Phils are going to apparently go with Gwynn/JMJ getting more PT and neither has shown they are deserving especially in CF.

Revere though has been especially horrendous vs RHP in the early going:

45 ABs - .221/.245/.221 (.466 OPS) with no XBHs and 3 BBs/12 Ks.

Last year he had noticeable splits difference too and his nunbers vs RHP

242 ABs - .285/.327/.314 (.641 OPS) with 5 XBHs and 15 BBs/28 Ks.

Last 3 years (2011-13) he has a .684 OPS vs LHP and .648 OPS.

I see BAP. Well at the time we where surrounded by a All Star group in their prime. So compared to the rest of the group guess he was the ugly duckling. Offensively while passable enough he was unspectacular. I do seem to remember he had a penchant for getting the runners across and had a few big hits for us.

I thought people seemed to hate Brett Myers.

Personally, the only one I've really disliked (but I've only truly followed the team since '07) is Adam Eaton, because he never seemed to take responsibliity for bad outings but would try to say that he'd pitched fine.

Feliz, BAP? I really liked him, especially as a player (he was rarely quoted so I didn't get much sense of his personality).

Even though I identified Revere as a bad ball player long ago, I'm shocked he's giving way to the likes of Mayberry and Gwynn. I figured he'd be a fixture until the next wave of good ball players started arriving. Looks Sandberg thinks he has a chance to win this year.

Did folks see that Montgomery had surgery today for cancer in his jaw? No complications are expected.

from Gelb:

Phillies manager Ryne Sandberg addressed his players at Marlins Park prior to Tuesday's game. "You could hear a pin drop in the room," Sandberg said, "and a lot of players came up with questions about him." Sandberg said the team's thoughts were with Montgomery.

"He's a guy who, in a lot of ways, is our biggest fan," Sandberg said. "From my experience here the last four years, he's the guy who sets the tone as far as it being a family-oriented organization — first-class, the right way. He's the leader of the organization. ... It all starts with David Montgomery."


Benny just needs to run headlong into a wall and break his nose. Everyone will love him after that.

Having suffered through several games with Galvis and Nix starting over clearly better hitters, I think its safe to say that Sandberg isn't deciding who starts in CF based strictly on who may have a better night offensively (in the 8 hole).


Jim Salisbury (‏@JSalisburyCSN)
Cliff Lee had an MRI on left elbow today. Awaiting further details. Will update.


Jim Salisbury ‏@JSalisburyCSN 22s
Cliff Lee had an MRI on left elbow today. Awaiting further details. Will update.

Jinx, by me a coke.

Matt Gelb (@magelb)
Cliff Lee has pitched through an elbow strain in recent starts. Velocity is down. Now, @JSalisburyCSN reporting MRI.

Season = Over?

No big deal. We have Jeff Manship.

I was hoping it was precautionary, but since the Phillies don't often schedule MRIs, the news seems that much more alarming. Gelb says Lee's been pitching "through an elbow strain in recent starts".

OK, Dickie, you get the next tweets.

Oh frack Gbrett

Lose Lee, Rollins, Ruiz or Utley and things are likely to get real ugly.

"The pain was mild for his two previous starts until Sunday's game, when he started to feel "a little more uncomfortable," Amaro said. After the game, Lee saw team doctor Michael Ciccotti, who ordered Lee to get a MRI."

If Lee goes down for any length of time, I'd say it's the nail in the coffin of this season.

Lee has had elbow stiffness for the last 3 weeks and it really bothered him the last 2 innings.

Also mentioned that the Phils were a bit concerned by his velocity dip and it has been down a bit (~1 MPH depending upon the pitch).

It,s Biddle time,ready or not.

Marlins have the best home record in baseball. Time to beat them there.

I still want to see a headline that reads: "J.D. Drew refuses to sign one-day contract to retire a Phillie."

As usual, BAP is wrong. Feliz was totally immune from criticism until his final season here. Huge amounts of hate during that time were poured on Kyle Kendrick, Rollins and Howard. Outside of a few comments by BAP and myself, Feliz was widely praised on BL until his final season.

MAG getting pummeled in the 1st inning of his 2nd rehab start. Sigh.

Great AB by Howard. This is the push.

loved what Byrd did there against a tough RHP. Big 2nd run.


So much for the shut down inning.

Haven't checked Brooks, but this strike zone seems horrendous.

Burnett looks an awful lot the guy who before the cortisone shot had trouble locating anything.

Lee possibly on the shelf, Burnett struggling badly with his command the last 2 starts, and 54 G in 55 days.

Beginning of the end and towards the trading deadline sell-off.

Strike zone has been poor & very tight but Burnett has nothing again tonight.

67 pitch inning. That was ugly.

'I will break you'

MG bailing on Burnett after one start + one inning. Just the other day he was saying that he 'tries to avoid being reactionary.'

Yeah, MG, you did sound like the voice of doom there. With the news about Lee's elbow soreness, I'm feeling rather doomful (may have just made up a word) myself. But Moyer was politely complaining about the strike zone.

The only Phillie I ever hated was Frank Thomas for the crap he did to Dick Allen.

Phuture Phillies ‏@PhuturePhilz 26m
Miguel ALfredo Gonzalez pulled after 2.1IP in CLearwater. 2.1IP 4H 5R 2ER 5BB 1K. Very ugly. #4millionayear

Iceman - Key word is 'tries' and the issue with Lee was with his flexor-pronator tendon on his inner elbow (TJ surgery elbow).

He was already on anti-inflammatory meds too.

Best case sounds Lee just has severe inflammation and the Phils place Lee on the 15-day DL and he misses a month or so after a rehab start or two.

MG- I'm with you on the Lee panic. I was referring to you tossing Burnett on top of your panic pile after what, six combined innings of subpar pitching?

Burnett has looked like crap tonight and if he didn't have an injury already I wouldn't think anything of it.

Not using his changeup, falling behind every hitter nearly, and can't command anything including his curve which is missing badly. Lucky to get through 5 IP and no more runs allowed tonight.

If Lee is hurt, they may have to make a 40-man roster move to add Buchanan.

30 strikes, 30 balls now for Burnett.

OK, after 3 innings, I'd agree that Burnett is struggling tonight. If he gives up no more runs this evening, however, and gets through 6, I'll be satisfied. (I'll also be holding my breath when the BP comes in, but that's par for the course.)

Burnett's starts before he had the cortisone shot:

Apr 7 (59 strikes, 50 balls) - 6 BBs
Apr 11 (54 strikes, 52 balls) - 6 BBs

Cortisone shot on Apr 14

Apr 17 (61 strikes, 40 balls) - 2 BBs
Apr 22 (66 strikes, 39 balls) - 1 BBs
Apr 27 (68 strikes, 34 balls) - 0 BBs
May 3 (59 strikes, 34 balls) - 2 BBs
May 8 (59 strikes, 44 balls) - 2 BBs
May 14 (66 strikes, 47 balls) - 5 BBs
May 20 (so far, 42 strikes, 41 balls) - 4 BBs and counting

Apr 1 (62 strikes, 35 balls) - 2 BBs

That was a pretty fine catch.


Awesome catch by Gwynn over the shoulder on the fly. Revere doesn't make that grab.

MG: Tough call. If Revere read it right, he's fast enough he could have had his back to the wall before the ball got there.

Of course, that's a pretty big 'if.'

Would really like the game to be tied here.

This guy for the Marlins has showed nothing tonight. Pumping fastball after fastball.


I am not disappointed the game has not been tied.


Classic JRoll where he got on top of a rising fastball and put it out.

Dont ever take me out of the leadoff spot again

JRoll already equaled his HR total from last year and on a 23-HR pace now.

Is TMac drunk? Because if he's just bored or distracted, I'm OK with him quitting.

And here some were saying they expected Jimmy to move into 2nd during the Dodgers series...

Beginning of the end and towards the trading deadline sell-off.

Posted by: MG | Tuesday, May 20, 2014 at 07:45 PM

Oh would you please S T F U

It hurts man the Cortisone shot has faded...Nuts!

Wow. This strike zone is legitimately terrible.

After that second called strike I can't blame Howard for not being willing to let something close outside go.

How is that outside "strike" (TWICE) called on Howard, but not once for Burnett all night?

Can't take these crap umpires. Worse than TMac.

Time to start shopping for another ace. It'll be 4 aces again when Lee returns.

And again.

Nice take, Cody. Looked pretty close for this ump, but good eye.

Johnny (smoke & mirrors) Cueto getting rocked in DC

We are available.

I can't decide if the reason Dom's not laying off the outside junk is because of the strike zone, or just because he's unable to lay off it.

And, we have no trouble seeing the signs.

MG: " Revere doesn't make that grab."

Revere has made some of the best catches in baseball over the last few years. He's also blown some of their easier ones - but saying he can't make a play like that is bogus. He's made that + ones 10x harder.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel