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Wednesday, November 20, 2013

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Our defense cost us 100 runs? I knew it was bad, but that really strikes me as how terrible it was.

I wonder if it wouldn't have been even more than $10MM. San Diego had the perfect set of variables to appeal to Johnson, and I have to think that factored greatly into his decisions vis-a-vis money and duration.

Especially since you'd have to beat that combination + $8MM the padres were offering.

As many have said, Johnson's not signing that contract with the Phillies. Would have probably taken a much higher dollar amount or a multi-year commitment, neither of which would have been a great idea.

That is the perfect contract, division, and ballpark in which to re-establish his market value.

Seidman is exactly right. Playing for low-risk moves is a stupid idea for the Phillies.

The only chance they have is to hit a couple grand slams. Can't do that if you're laying down a sacrifice bunt. So to speak.

The Phils can't afford more injuries. They're going to have a lot of money on the DL this year at certain times. An SP is not a place where you want to gamble, especially on a guy with a sorted injury history.

Good pass by the Phils.

It all depends on your goal. RAJ isn't shooting for a 90-win squad and he's not betting on catching lightning in a bottle. Instead, he appears to be shooting for .500 and a puncher's chance at relevance going into September.

He's figuring that if he can keep the Cloyds and Luis Garcias from showing up on the big-league roster, .500 is a realistic goal, and with a little Pythagorean luck, maybe the fans keep watching the beer ads and showing up at the stadium into the final weeks. That likely means adding depth and minimizing risk with high-floor signings like Marlon Byrd and pursuing durable, decent players like Bronson Arroyo instead of brittle, more-talented guys like Josh Johnson.

I'm not endorsing that plan, mind you - just facing the reality of what we're seeing.

FYI - only 4 RHBs in the entire MLB last year had more than 50% of their PA vs LHP who played as much as Frandsen(286 total PA).

Derek Norris, the A's catcher who the Nats traded away, led the league with 56.2% PA vs LHP and did so to the tune of .320/.410/.580

Ctom/Jack: Well said and agreed.

little more fyi: norris vs rhp? .149/.261/.184, ouch.

As many have said, Johnson's not signing that contract with the Phillies. Would have probably taken a much higher dollar amount or a multi-year commitment, neither of which would have been a great idea.

This.

Nothing like a year in a pitcher's park to get that value back up.

Chris makes the most valid point that the Phils might not have been able to sign Johnson regardless of their offer especially given his strong preference to remain on the West Coast.

Guess it depends on what other starting pitching Amaro signs.

Johnson was the type of signing though that if the Phils really wanted to contend for a playoff spot in '14 they would have made a much harder effort.

To dovetail on Sil's point, Johnson himself had said he wanted to take a pillow contract to rebuild his value. I'm not sure even a multiyear deal at the market rate for a #3 would've done the job. As the risk of getting beat around for two seasons, even if totally healthy, in a hitter's ballpark destroys his ability to get the big FA payday he's looking for. (Bigger payday, I suppose. As 2yr/$28MM is nothing to sneeze at. But I suspect Johnson wants something more along the lines of what Ervin Santana's asking for.)

Speaking of Petco, I guess moving in the walls ~10ft didn't really help.

Their one year park factor was a 90 for hitting, which was actually worse than their multiyear factor of 91.

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/bronson-arroyo-opens-about-free-agency

Sounds like there is almost no way Arroyo signs with the Phils.


“But I also think that going to a place where I feel like I have the opportunity to make the postseason is huge as well.

“I don’t want to go to a ballclub where I put up 22 quality starts in a season and win nine ballgames -- that’s tough, especially for a guy who’s aging.”

“There’s a lot of [ballparks] -- like Philly and ours in Cincinnati that are just so small.

Sounds like there is almost no way Arroyo signs with the Phils.

Posted by: MG | Wednesday, November 20, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Thank God. I can't stand watching Arroyo pitch.

David Murphy - whom I had tabbed as a potential Phils target before the Byrd signing - just got 2/$12M-ish (plus club option) from the Indians. That makes the Byrd deal look like less of an outlier than it apppeared last week. The market is likely inflated from the incoming TV money, and the top non-QO guys are likely getting a boost from not costing a draft pick.

I'm guessing Johnson would've wanted at least the Amaro special (2 years with a vesting 3rd year option) to even have a conversation with the Phils, and likely at 12+ mil per.

Pure speculation, but based off of his stated preference to rebuild his value and hit the market again in 2014, I don't think he would have come to Philly under virtually any realistic circumstances.

Arroyo is also 36 and a PED suspension just waiting to happen.

ColonelTom:
Quite. I think both the Byrd and Murphy deals are reflective of where the market's at: Byrd, despite his age, made more due to the dearth of RHB corner OFs on the market in general this off-season, let alone ones who are competent defenders and who have some offensive upside. With the market shaping up the way it is, I'm curious where Corey Hart's going to end up, and whether he'll make more in 2014 than Nelson Cruz.

I'd like them to look at Johan Santana as a buy low big upside guy. Maybe as the 6th starter or swingman (assuming some other team doesn't guarantee him a starter role). I think slotting some of the bounceback candidates into the depth roles is a good plan of action. If they perform they move up the depth chart and become possible trade bait if/when the team is out of contention.

ColonelTom,
I actually think the Murphy contract slightly justifies those who said Amaro overpaid for Byrd. Murphy is 4 years younger, has better career numbers virtually across the board, and can play all 3 OF positions. The only difference is that Byrd hit FA off a career season, and Murphy had his worst season just before hitting FA. But as far as future performance goes, I'd expect Murphy to outperform Byrd over the next 3 years.

Of course, there is also the issue of Murphy being another LHB, which affects things.

Chris in VT:
The handedness of Murphy and Byrd really is what explains the pay differential, as there's RHB corner OFs are in particular demand this off-season. And, as a feather in Byrd's cap, he's only got mild career platoon splits:
Against RHP: .275/.333/.410 (.743 OPS)
Against LHP: .291/.343/.461 (.804 OPS)

Murphy's got rather more pronounced splits:
Against RHP: .283/.347/.469 (.816 OPS)
Against LHP: .259/.306/.350 (.656 OPS)

Murphy's the better defender, but Byrd still grades as an above-average corner OF defensively. Both are above-average baserunners. With all of that under consideration, that Byrd's making $2MM more likely owes to the need of the Phils for a RHB bat and the thinness of the market in that regard this off-season.

BAP: Thanks for posting that link to scout.com in the prior thread.

I think scout.com is great, though not as widely known as Baseball America. McDaniel makes an excellent point about the Phillies tools-first approach: It is by definition hit-and-miss. The key is having scouts who are great in projecting the ability of raw athletes to develop baseball skills. Given the Phillies "hit" rate on these prospects, it's fair to say their scouts are average at best.

clout: Was an interesting list. Besides putting Crawford above Biddle, it also had Tocci much lower than I expected, and Aaron Altherr and Yoel Mecias much higher (in Mecias's case, WAY higher). Also, no Larry Greene, Mitch Gueller, Leandro Castro, Cameron Perkins, or Tyson Gillies.

Surprising Mecias was that high on that list considering he is recovering from TJ.

If I was a pitcher looking to re-establish value, I'd head to PetCo too.

How about Bartolo Colon? Watching him try to hit/run the bases would be worth the price of admission in and of itself.

...I'm not serious, of course...

I think San Diego had too much to offer in terms of location and a pitcher friendly park for Johnson to have accepted a higher, but still reasonable offer from the Phils (10M?). Citizens Bank Park is not the place for a pitcher to re-establish their value. Then considering the Phils defense won't give him much help I couldn't see him signing here unless the money was ridiculous. All around just a bad fit.

Completely off-topic, but a few belated words on Darin Ruf:

* If Amaro is a rational being - and I honestly believe he is - why the !@#$ would he belittle Ruf at all? Isn't Darin Ruf gold as a DH/1b to an AL team? Is not a player openly criticized a diminished asset?

* Since Amaro spoke poorly of Ruf - really minimizing his trade value to an AL team - do we really hear Amaro's thoughts and observe his work? Or again, is the limited partnership hell-bent on "getting the band back together"; ostensibly to draw fans to CBP to again revel in a team resembling 2008? A team of geezers completely unaffiliated with that WC team, but also not in any way affiliated with a young slugger like Ruf? And is Amaro told to "tow this line" or walk?

The mere thought of the 2nd bullet point makes me ill.

Cut: So far as I'm aware, the only "belittling" comment about Ruf was "he's not a starting outfielder." That's not really saying anything that every scout in baseball (and out of it too) doesn't know.

I also don't see why criticizing his outfield play (which I wouldn't even say he did - just pointed out the obvious, that he doesn't belong as an everyday RF) diminishes his trade value to an AL team as a 1B/DH.

If David Dombrowski holds a press conference about the Tigers' options, in which he mentions that Miguel Cabrera can't play center field, he's not worth any less on the open market. Nobody was going to sign him to play there anyway.

*All of this is based on the comments Amaro made at the beginning of October. If this is something since then, please disregard.

RAJ didn't admonish Ruf. He just said he didn't think he was a starting everyday OF because of his defensive limitations. I'd agree with him too.

No way I would have signed with the Phils. They can't even get a pitching to sign.

The part that confuses me about the whole "Ruf isn't a right fielder" thing is that our left fielder is every bit as bad. I actually think he might even be worse. I guess what RAJ is saying is, "I'll tolerate one godawful defensive outfielder, but not two."

No way I would have signed with the Phils. They can't even get a pitching coach to sign.

BAP: Yeah, that's pretty much it. Also, Dom is bad, but he has the tools to be better.

Ruf is worse, and he doesn't have any (defensive) outfield tools. Especially in RF.

Cut, I couldn't agree with you more on the 2nd bullet point as well as Ruf. He did not fall all over himself in the outfield. I know he strikes out a lot. He also works the most pitches per at bat on the team, projects to 32 HR's off his 2013 stats, and has 2nd highest OBP on team. How many guys in MLB hit 32 HR's this year. Henderson claims he's not concerned about OBP, he wants aggressive hitters who can drive in runs. OBP is a huge stat. Why do the A's win year after year with guys you've never heard of, cause they are on base all the time. They focus on OBP first. Joyner is the guy that should have stayed.

Silly people. r00b's focused on bringing back Kendrick & Halladay. No room for affordable reclamation projects like Johnson!

To be fair, Amaro did make the comment that Ruf "isn't an everyday player." Not just OF.

I don't necessarily disagree with him, but as the Phils' GM it's not something I would say publicly. Especially if you think he might have value as a 1B/DH to an AL team.

But as far as things Amaro has done/continues to do that are poor decisions, this one is way down the list.

"Also, Dom is bad, but he has the tools to be better."

Yeah, he has had those tools since we drafted him 8 years ago & there hasn't been much improvement, if any. Ruf, on the other hand, has only been playing the position for a year and he has actually made enormous defensive strides in that time. He has no range at all and he never will. But he catches what's hit within his limited range.

I'm beginning to wish r00b would just trade Ruf. Not because I think there would be any great return, but because -- & due to a variety of circumstances -- I don't feel he'll ever get a fair shake w/ the Phillies.

normball: Ruf had 643 PAs between AAA and MLB in 2013. We don't need to project how many HRs he "would have" hit, since he actually hit 21 over that time - including facing significantly worse pitching during his 350 PAs in AAA.

Chris Carpenter has retired.

Phillibuster: Or another way to look at it would be to say Ruf hit 17 HR in his first 285 PA in MLB, while it took 599 PA for Brown to hit as many HR.

normball: A's don't win because of OB. They win because of pitching. They allowed 3.8 runs per game last two seasons, which is damn good for an AL team.

It is especially good when you consider most of their pitchers are acquired in trades (Parker, Milone, Blevins), picked off the scrap heap (Colon), smart FA signings (Balfour) or later round draft picks (Straily, Griffin). And they've done that without much of a budget.

These kinds of smart decisions suggest someone in that team's FO has a good eye for talent.

Where is this idea coming from that Darin Ruf isn't getting a fair shake? Has the team released, traded or non-tendered him?

Gtown, I know you and me don't see eye to eye, but how is comparing Dom's and Ruf's HR productive? You know that Dom was never projected to be a player with more than 20 a year home run power right? Has Dom been that big of a disappointment to you that you have to cherry pick stats to make Ruf look like a better player?

Or another way to say it is, You don't see the A's signing Mike Adams, John Lannan and Chad Durbin and picking up Luis Garcia from the scrap heap.

Redburb: There are some folks here, Gtown among them, who think Ruf is a superstar in waiting. If only Rube would unleash him, we'd have an MVP candidate.

It's just odd that instead of reasoned analysis you get "Well Ruf got to 17 homers in 341 less PAs. So take that Brown."

G-Town, compare his MLB at bats as a projection. If you want to lessen his production by throwing in his minor league stats, then go back a year and tell me what that does for you. Frankly, off those stats he should have been given a starting job going into the spring this year. How many guys in the last 15 years have hit the number of homers he hit in 2012 (majors and minors combined) and not gotten more of an opportunity? The A's do have an eye for talent. They sign few high school kids in the draft. They feel the big time college players offer a truer indication of what they are going to do later and this takes away some of there risk as well as getting these guys to the bigs quicker. I agree with their pitching and eye for talent. As well though, they push working counts and OBP. Put guys on base and you will heighten your chances of scoring runs.

The problem is RAJ. The team will continue to deteriorate as long as he is around. It looks like he is trying to reassemble the 2008 team or one just like it. Problem is the offensive core is old and broken. It would have been tough to let Jimmie and Ryan walk but we would be better off now, if we had. Look a the Braves. ILK!!! They let players instead of hanging on to them passed their prime. Let the Yankees do that. We are on a down hill slope till RAJ is let go.

With cut_fastball dredging up Amaro's sliming of the Phil everyone loves to debate about, I was going to post something in response. But, for the life of me, what I said at the time is still better than anything I can come up with two months down the road:

As Darin Ruf did everything the front office asked of him in 2013 and then some, while succeeding beyond damn near everyone's most optimistic expectations by working his keister off. After such a year, you don't spit in a player's face by saying he's not an everyday guy two days after the end of the regular season: You make the necessary noises that he has impressed the organization and that you're diligently working on fitting him into your off-season plans. (Even if those plans are just as a 1B platoon partner, interleague DH, and spot-starter in LF.) Had RAJ not said one word about Ruf's not being an everyday player, and just kept to what everyone agrees with -- Ruf's not an RF; he's a bad OF defender in general; improving OF defense is a priority this off-season -- there'd be no row, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: Juums | Tuesday, October 01, 2013 at 01:19 PM

To be fair, Amaro did make the comment that Ruf "isn't an everyday player." Not just OF.

Exactly. That's what killed me about the comment. At least put a positive spin on it. How about, "He showed up early every day and has a great work ethic about improving, but he knows as well as anybody that he's better suited to 1B. We just don't have an opening there right now, so we'll try to put him in positions to succeed and get his at bats."

Amaro's comments were stupid because he's the GM of the team and he shouldn't say that about any players. Especially guys like Ruf who come out of nowhere and make the MLB roster after being a 20th round pick. You should be praised the sh!t out of that guy because he makes your scouting department look good.

Rube cracks me up. Tries Ruf in LF in the minors. Bad thing? No, its the perfect position to try out someone with no OF experience while in the minors.

The part that cracks me up is he signs Young, declares him the starting RF of all things while the guy is still hurt. Then, after playing your AAA 1B in LF in the minors, you bring him up and play him in...RF the majority of the time and some in LF.

I think we seen how flip flopping little ML experienced players at new positions during the course of a season can affect their overall game ( It is what happened with Dom ). So what does he do? The same thing with Ruf.

Then he comes out and says that about Ruf. I just don't know anymore. I think Rube knows even less half of the time.

He should have said, Ruf can play a passable LF if need be. Then again I think most Gms would just simply ignore Rubes player evaluation at this point.

Ruf is a perfect candidate for the AL though. A RHB DH that can play 1B & a passable LF, if that is a small LF that is.

I think with Charlie being gone, we may see guys playing less out of position then we have. during his tenure. At least we can hope.

Normball: "...compare his MLB at bats as a projection. If you want to lessen his production by throwing in his minor league stats..."

Except including the minor league stats should improve his projection, since he was facing inferior opposition in the minors. As such, you would expect his overall numbers to be higher including his time at AAA, not lower. However, just as with the year before, his HR power was primarily absent until August, when he put up 9 of the 21 HRs he hit all year (he put up 20 of his 38 in 2012 during August, and 6 of his 17 in 2011 during August - so either hittin' weather's a thing or we need more calendars with all August pages on them).

"...then go back a year and tell me what that does for you. Frankly, off those stats he should have been given a starting job going into the spring this year. How many guys in the last 15 years have hit the number of homers he hit in 2012 (majors and minors combined) and not gotten more of an opportunity?"

Well, first of all, that was in AA. He'd literally never seen a pitch at AAA prior to this April. Second of all, he was given most of a full Spring Training to try to win the job, and he showed as one of the worst left fielders in the history of the game during that time. That's fine - he'd only played outfield a few times before that - but he was terrible. His 57 ABs netted him a .784 OPS, which was nice, but against inferior opposition (non-MLB pitchers) and not enough to make up for his poor outfield D with 1st locked up by Howard.

You could make the argument that he should have been kept on as a platoon for Howard at the start (especially with how poorly Nix played after April), but his bat didn't make up for his glove in ST.

However, if you want a name, Joe Bauman hit 72 HRs in the 1954 season for Roswell in the C-level Longhorn league. The next year, he hit 46 for... Roswell in the C-level Longhorn league.

How do we know they didn't push for him? As stated, he wanted to go to CA.

clout: I've never made any such claim, nor do I believe that to be even remotely true.

Redburb: If you had been paying attention you might have noticed that my 4.15PM post was a direct reply to a prior post specifically regarding HR production. Nothing more, nothing less.

"I think with Charlie being gone, we may see guys playing less out of position then we have during his tenure."

I fear you might actually see it more. If I recall, Sandberg actually made comments that he likes moving guys around to new positions.

My favorite only-on-the-Phillies lineup decision is when our manager takes a utility infielder who can't hit his way out of a paper bag (i.e., Galvis, Mini-Mart, Orr) and starts him at a corner OF spot over our usual backup outfielder with a .700-ish OPS. Because, after all, a lineup with Freddie Galvis in LF is much more versatile than a lineup with Mayberry in LF.

Question...Whats the situation with Adams? I havent heard much. To definitively say he is a sunk cost i mean.

Todd Zolecki: "The Phillies added 4 players to the 40-man roster today: OF's Aaron Altherr & Kelly Dugan, catcher Tommy Joseph & LHP Rob Rasmussen."

One more spot for Ruiz brings the total to 39 of 40 in advance of Rule 5.

Josh Johnson was the number one FA on my list of starting pitchers for the Phils to sign. He is the perfect example of a low-risk, high-reward signing.

It takes two to tango, however.

Had I been Johnson's advisor, I would have told him to sign with the Padres, Giants or Dodgers. Petco Park is one of the easiest parks to pitch in. Smart move by Johnson.

Next on my list of low-risk, high-reward available starters is Dan Haren.

I'd also like to see the Phils sign Garza, but he better fits the description of being a more reliable pick who will cost a lot more.

Hopefully Haren will be asking for less than he extracted from the Nats. Otherwise, he goes out the window too.

SSounds like Haren is another candidate for a West coast tour. His family's in SoCal, and he grew up in LA. Also, the Dodgers allegedly have interest.

Oh, sure, show my first post now...

Who the hell is Rob Rasmussen?

Who the hell is Rob Rasmussen?

r00b's big score in the M. Young trade. Per Gelb, prior to Rasmussen's being added:

Rob Rasmussen, a 24-year-old lefthanded pitcher acquired last August from Los Angeles in the Michael Young trade, could be protected. He is the type of player typically taken in the Rule 5 draft. He was impressive in double-A Chattanooga with a 2.55 ERA and 76 strikeouts in 81 1/3 innings. A 12-game promotion to triple-A Albuquerque was dismal; he posted a 6.46 ERA with a sharp decline in strikeouts and increase in walks. His numbers against lefties were better than righties, and he projects as a lefthanded reliever.

http://bit.ly/1fdT1gd

Should Phillies have pushed for Josh Johnson? No. He would just be this year's version of Mike Adams et al, another injury waiting to happen.

"
awh - Where did you get $13-$14M? The was just one poster and was benchmarked against any previous FA signings the past few years.

Posted by: MG | Wednesday, November 20, 2013 at 09:41 AM"
.
.
MG, been busy all day so I didn't have the chance to respond to your post on the previous thread.

Answer: It wasn't my number, it's something Dierkes posted over at MLBTR. That's what HE says the market is for a #3-4 SP.

Is there anyone at all that we could sign, or anything we can do, that would cause us to lose our Rule 5 draft pick? Because if so, sign him and/or do it.

I'm in favor of anything that doesn't permit RAJ, in his infinite brilliance, to roll the dice on someone we can all b!tch about tying up a roster spot for the foreseeable future.

"Arroyo is also 36 and a PED suspension just waiting to happen."

So you're saying he'd fit right in with Chooch and Marlon Byrd?

Fielder for Kinsler?

Yes Fielder for Kinsler.

Just heard the Fielder for Kinsler news. Didn't see that one coming.

Now I think that's called getting creative

"RAJ didn't admonish Ruf. He just said he didn't think he was a starting everyday OF because of his defensive limitations."


Throwing a guy into the OF in the major leagues with no prior experience tends to heighten those limitations. Kinda like throwing a 3 year old into a Olympic swimming pool and hoping they'll look like Dara Torres.

But when you've got such gold-glove caliber defenders like Dom Brown, Howard, Utley, Revere and Byrd on your squad, its tough to crack that code. Its all about pitching and defense with Roob's Phils.

We should trade Ruf for a 38 year old lefty reliever and another little utility infielder (can't have enough of those guys!) and then we can sign him back in 10 years when he's old and on the decline.

Todd Zolecki ‏@ToddZolecki 5h
Are Ruiz and Byrd the last of the Phillies' major offensive upgrades for 2014? http://bit.ly/18oxyxd

From the above, if you want the nutshell version:

It seems clear the front office is entering next season the same way it entered this past season: hoping a healthier roster is enough to return them to the postseason.
(...)
But that hope is a harder sell following a 73-89 finish in 2013, the organization’s worst since they lost 97 games in 2000. The Phillies scored the fourth-fewest runs in baseball lats season.
(...)
It seems like a lot of things need to break perfectly for the Phillies to score more runs next year.

GBrettfan: That wouldn't surprise me at all. r00b still has to sign Kendrick, another SP & a bullpen arm. Revenue projections have to be down, as well, so I'd be willing to bet total payroll will be limited more than usual. It won't be a push right up to the luxury tax kind of year.

Yes the GM is done making moves, I believe and he hasn't really distinguished himself with the ones he's made. Chooch's deal is ok at best (1 year too long). And Byrd's deal absolutely sucks. They could have gotten him for much less money IMO.

So just like the last 2 off-seasons, what you see it what you get, and it isn't very good.

Wow. RAJ has been mercilessly pilloried (and justifiably so) for giving a 5-year, $125M contract to a 1st baseman who was coming off a 141 OPS+ season when the extension was signed, and a 126 OPS+ season when the contract took effect.

Texas basically just gave a 7-year, $168M contract to a colosally fat, soon-to-be-30 year old 1st baseman who's coming off a 120 OPS+ season. And they threw in an all star 2nd baseman for good measure. In the spirit of withholding judgment, I'll allow someone to convince me that this deal is not completely insane from the Rangers' standpoint.

At think as this point we just have to hope he doesn't completely demolish what is left of the farm system & young players by the time Rube & Monty are gone from the organization.

I mean, when RAJ signed the Howard deal, he was obviously hoping that Howard would keep putting up the kinds of numbers he had been putting up to that point. It was a ridiculous move given that there were 2 more years before Howard would hit free agency and RAJ didn't even buy out those 2 years or get a hometown discount. But at least you could say: he gambled based on the information he had at that time and he lost.

What Texas just did would be the equivalent of signing the Ryan Howard contract after Howard's 2011 season. Only, instead of giving him 5 years, Texas just gave him 7 & threw in one of the better 2nd baseman in the American League for good measure.

Ithink Fielder hits more HR's in Texas than Detroit. Still doesn't justify it though.

BAP:
Because Profar was blocked and his bat wouldn't provide much value outside of the middle infield. While it might be debated if the Rangers should be as high on Profar as they are, the move makes sense because it clears out the IF logjam, unloads the IF who's most likely to decline next year, and acquires a bigger bat than could likely have been found anywhere else while also not costing a draft pick.

I suspect there's also a not-insubstantial amount of expectation on the Rangers' part that Fielder simply had a down year last season and that it is not predictive of the start of his decline.

@BAP: Detroit is sending $30MM to Texas, so it is more like 7yrs/$138MM, but I get your point.

Juums: That's definitely why they did it. But a guy like Kinsler has plenty of value. They didn't need to take on a 7-year, $268M fatso.

They're clearly hoping Fielder's year was an anomaly. They're also probably looking at the fact that he has missed only 1 game in the last 5 years and has been a model of durability his entire career. But you could have said much the same thing about Ryan Howard a few years ago.

They are getting rid of Kinsler's contract which has 4 years 60 million on it annnnd cash from the tigers to help off set the difference. They also just made room for top prospect jurickson profar. So if you think Prince will rebound then you made a good deal if Prince becomes the next Mo Vaughn( or Ryan Howard) then its a horrible deal.

There's speculation that this trade is just the prelude to an even bigger move by the Rangers. Rather than install Profar at second, the Rangers will now sign Robbie Cano.

If the Phils are truly done making major moves, maybe they're not being foolish in thinking that the team can make a run in 2014 if everybody's healthy. Maybe the foolishness is in thinking that the fans will buy that line.

Worse still, maybe the Phils are so arrogant that they don't really care whether the fans buy this line or not.

Ender Inciarte, who hit .281 with 43 stolen bases in Double A, has been added to Arizona's 40-man.

I predict the Cano contract proves to be a bigger disaster than the Fielder contract.

i hope fielder's contract has a weight clause. even rube was smart enough for that.

i really enjoyed the ruf discussion today. i am excited to see what he can do, starting in ST. this off season is his first prolonged down time since before his breakout year at reading, a year that turned into his longest ever with his cup of coffee in the show. then, iirc, he played winter ball. then back to riding the bus for half a season before his call-up. it's not surprising that he tailed-off in september. now he should be fully recharged come april. someone in here recently said they thought ruf will age poorly because of his build. can you elaborate on that? i don't agree.

Why Ruben hates Darin is no mystery. He's jealous.

Great move by the Tigers. Shedding themselves at that albatross, giving themselves a better solution at 2B, and moving Cabrera back to 1B.

Their defense got much better, their future payroll outlook and flexibility vastly improved, and all for the price of probably a small hit to their offensive output. But when you have pitching like they do, that's a trade you make every single time.

I mean, really, a fantastic move by the Tigers. The best trade I've seen in a long time. I'm floored.

fielder is someone who will definitly age poorly. i bet 3 or 4 years of his contract will be dead money.

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