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Monday, October 21, 2013

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Slow news day.

But seriously, who cares?

I think it matters because it speaks to the mentality of a guy who could possible be a leader on this team for a while.

Maybe Dom has thinner skin than he's let on?

Also, nobody loves a Dallas fan. Seriously. Even in Dallas it can be a tough sell sometimes.

95% of Cowboys fans are only fans because they wanted to root for the team that was winning the SB in the early '90s. It's like saying you're a Yankees fan but you didn't watch baseball before 1995.

Well, in Dom's defense, he wrote that he's a Cowboys fan because the Hambrick brothers grew up in his hometown. Which is a better reason to root for the Cowboys than most have.

Wearing Dallas gear to an Eagles game when you are a Philly athlete is just stupid.

Engaging with drunken angry fans via twitter is almost as stupid.

Making a big deal out of a native Georgian's NFL preferences is also stupid.

The fact that he is a Cowboys fan is not an issue. But wearing Cowboys gear to an Eagles game and then celebrating that fact shows a lack of understanding of your fan base.

Then getting into it all over Twitter is silly.

Much ado about nothing.

I agree with REDBURB. Dom is not showing any traits of being a leader on the Phillies with his responses. Makes me wonder if it is time to move him and get someone who is thrilled to be on this team.

No one would be thrilled to "...be on this team." It's a he88 of a long time since '09.

I still think it's even money they dump Lee and part of his salary for either prospects, or one of the half-dozen needs this pathetic team has.

Brown wearing Cowboys' gear, celebrating the fact that he is a Cowboys' fan, etc. is not a big deal at all. Who cares? And the fact that some Twittiots take it seriously says more about them than Brown.

The troubling thing is the thin-skinned "Philly doesn't love me" response. If he really worries about this and it weighs on his mind then he's not in a great mental state of mind, IMO.

Cut: That wouldn't really be dumping him, if they're getting something they need in return.

On the other hand, there's really no baseball advantage to dumping him. Monetary, sure - the owners would probably love that extra cash. However, there's really not a lot out there they can get with only money that would equal the value they get from Cliff.

Brown being a bit thin-skinned doesn't surprise me but I still understand why athletes would have a Twitter account except for ego-driven reasons. Literally it only has possible downside for them depending upon what they tweet and whom they reply to.

Personally, it would have been more fitting & hilarious if Brown had just gone the route of holding a picture with a wad of 100s and made some response about 'Rain-maker vs a guy who just gets rained on'

Biggest issue with Brown though is his health and his nagging leg injuries. Hopefully he found a workout routine this offseason which prevents them.

Brown was a terrible draft pick he'll be on the DL again at least a month In 2014.

Brown was a 20th round pick in '06 draft. How is that a 'terrible pick?'

It is Dom's right to root for whichever NFL team he so chooses. Likewise, it's the right of Phillies fans to view Dom as an brittle, largely disappointing dim bulb.

If only Brown could be packaged with one of the team's awful contracts in order to actually make that trade happen. Sure, no one wants to trade for all of Ryan Howard's salary, but if they got Dom Brown as well in the trade...one can dream.

Dump him. Dump 'em all.

MG: Dom was a great pick, of course. But the 20th round is a bit misleading without context. He was signed way over slot and only fell that low because everyone was convinced he was going to U of Miami.

Hopefully just an emotional tweet by Dom, but the reality is that Dom probably got more "love" this year than almost any other Phillie besides Utley and Lee. If he think's he was booed, he ain't seen nothing yet.

More concerning is his frequent time on the disabled list and questionable defense. And now, maybe his thin skin.

There are no questions about his defense...it sucks.

That was Mike Adams with him in the picture. Guess no one cares that he's a Cowboys fan. Dom Brown should be a Jaguars fan, he's from Zephyrhills, Florida. We can't blame him for not being a Jags fan though.

From prior thread:

steve wilmdel: but didnt matsui win the WS MVP?

Yes he did. And the Phils counterpart was Ben Francisco. But some folks here don't think that was a factor in the Yankees winning.

"Likewise, it's the right of Phillies fans to view Dom as an brittle, largely disappointing dim bulb."


Yup, Philly loves him.

I hate the Cowboys but I hope he runs the bases with a Cowboys flag during his first home run trot at CBP next season. This fanbase has reached a whole new level of stupid.

clout: A factor. Not the factor. Phils still dropped 2 of 3 at Home, games which did not include a DH.

Would you rather that Dom Brown feign interest in the Eagles? He has no roots in Philly.

He was over-hyped for sure. Anyone who followed his career would know that he was green--an off-the-radar prospect pried from a football scholarship at Miami.

On Brown: He was a slow starter. And he was getting out-hit by a 39yo. (Ibanez) That does not earn you love in this town. Having 1 great month out of 3+ years is not enough, either. That one month is about the only thing separating him from being a mirror clone of Mayberry. Which is another way to say "replacement level player".

... I hope [Dom] runs the bases with a Cowboys flag during his first home run trot at CBP next season.

I can see the headline of the 2 June 2014 edition of the Phila. Inquirer Sports Page now: "Brown Hits 1st HR of the Season, Somehow Breaks Every Bone in Body Rounding 2B"

(Subheader: "Phillies List Brown As 'Day-to-Day'")

He's got to go. I don't care that he's a Cowboys fan, but acting like he wants out of Philly is not cool. Trade him and get what you can. It would get another left-handed bat out of the lineup, and improve our defense.

I nominate this thread, even before it runs its course, for worst thread in the history of Beerleaguer. Only thing that could make it better is if the truth injector chimes in and calls someone else a douche bag. Seriously, there's a place to discuss crap people say on Twitter. It's called Twitter.

I logged onto beerleaguer and somehow ended up on crossingbroad.

agree Hugh... *worst thread ever*

"Only thing that could make it better is if the truth injector chimes in and calls someone else a douche bag."

_________________________________________

You have to love the irony of Poster A, bashing Poster B in the context of digging at Poster B for bashing Poster C.

Again- this comedy writes itself sometimes

Also in the same reply as bashing the person who started the thread.

Phillie doesn't love me?

Oh boy.

At this point, I wonder if the Phillies will ever catch a break. That statement taken along with the fact that he's a Boras client probably means we'll be waving goodbye to Dom as soon as his arb years are done.

And yes. Responding like he did shows at least a level of immaturity I was not expecting from his demeanor in general, if not a little dopiness. He is really just a young kid, and you hope this meant nothing. But the things people utter in the heat of the moment often show their real thoughts.

You can't force the guy to be an Eagles fan. Who gives a sh*t if he is a Dallas fan. Let this guy be we're supposed to be rooting for him. This is not news.

Also, you guys are being unnecessarily harsh towards Corey here. I know many on here think they are smarter than Stanford grads and can do a better job at teaching hitting and running BL- but Corey posted a topic where he outright said it's not a huge deal but offered up ideas where he felt it did matter to some degree.

You don't like it then just change the topic like we often do on here anyway.

DOM pissing off the type of people who care what football team he likes makes me like DOM even more tan I already did.

Speaking of football, anyone remember what Buddy Ryan said about Cris Carter?

"All he does is catch touchdowns".

That has got to be #1 on the list of "Most Amaro Thing Ever Said...that wasn't actually said by Amaro".

I don't think anyone cares that he's not an Eagles fan. After yesterday, it takes a special kind of idiot to be an Eagles fan. It's the "Philly doesn't love me" comment that makes me wonder how long Domo will be here.

Athlete: Let me go out of my way to use social media to antagonize the fans in order to get a negative response.

Fans: Negative response

Athlete: Look at these fans responding negatively to me! I can't believe it!

Good grief Charlie Brown.

Gosh. Another athlete with a self-planted chip on his shoulder based on "no love" and boos he received 2 years ago when he stunk.

call me loopy but I'm going to go out on a limb and say ol' Dom and Jimmy Rollins have had a few late night conversations.

***Dom Brown should be a Jaguars fan, he's from Zephyrhills, Florida. ***

Yeah but he spent much of his childhood in the suburbs of Atlanta and he attended Stone Mountain High School (same HS as Wally Joyner coincidentally). And Brandon Phillips for that matter...who was 6 years ahead of Dom.

So, by where he lived, he should be a Falcons fan. Not that that matters because I grew up in Philly and hate the Eagles as does my brother.

That should say Redan High School in Stone Mountain, GA....same school for all 3 guys though.

Honestly, nothing Jimmy ever said struck me as being overly critical of the fans, nor exaggerating their enmity.

Brown just had the best year of his career, and was one of the bright(er) spots on the team. If he's still harping on the grief he took last year or the year before, when he deserved it as much as any prospect did, then he's got to learn to move on.

Trade him and his agent now while he still has some value.

"call me loopy but I'm going to go out on a limb and say ol' Dom and Jimmy Rollins have had a few late night conversations."


Not Jimmy Rollins - Donavan McNabb.


McNabb (and his family) never seemed to get over the stupidity of him being booed at the draft by Cataldi and Co (expect anything else from WIP?).

McNabb's problem is he never really considered the source. Angelo Cataldi appeals to the lowest common denominator among sports fans - I don't believe I've ever hear him utter one thing intelligent (not saying much for journalism school, is it?).

Unfortunately, Brown plays in a city where expectations are high and the half of the population that has IQ's under 100 are very vocal when their players don't perform EVERY time they're at the plate.

It's that way in most of the East Coast cities.

If Dom wants love and good feelings all the time he's going to have to play somewhere else.

That said, WGAS who Brown roots for in the NFL? Typical moronic overreaction by the idiots who used to populate the 700 level.

"...then he's got to learn to move on."


And be MATURE enough to do it.

awh: Eh, I believe that plenty of players can be immature, but learn to ignore the background noise. Heck, that describes most professional athletes, in my mind.

If ARod can do it, then anyone can. Maybe Domonic needs to commission a statue of himself as a centaur.

Boo? F8ck you

"Philly doesn't love me. I get boo's almost everynight. No big deal use to it."

You can't read the first sentence without also reading the last one. "No big deal - use(d) to it."

I interpret that as Dom recognizing that boos come with the territory, and having made his peace with it. He seems to recognize that fan approval can come and go and that it's foolish to put too much stock in it.

How is one idiot's comment on Twitter in any way representative of the Phils' fan base?

Twitter has it uses for information gathering and notification but most of it is overwhelming cr@p especially personal users accounts.

GBrett: I suppose it could be poor word choice. He'd hardly be the first athlete to be guilty of that.

However, saying "Philly doesn't love me" sure sounds like a bit of a persecution complex. Especially considering this was his best year and he probably got more 'love' this year than any other in his career.

If this was the west cost, he would have been stabbed to death or beaten to within an inch of his life.

Oh boy, another Scott Rolen.

Well, I'm of the opinion that we'll only see a couple more years anyway of Brown before he's traded.

Remember, his agent is Scott Boras, and Boras' clients usually go to FA and test the market. They hire Boras because he has a reputation for getting his best clients top dollar - and that's exactly what they want.

Because of the aforementioned, I believe he's unlikely to agree to a team-friendly contract. That, and given the Phillies' history with Boras, I'll be shocked if he gets extended while still under team control.

So, the question is whether or not the Phillies will hang on to an "unextendable" Dom Brown until he hits FA, or whether they see what they can get for him prior to that.

I'd bet on the latter, and look to him being traded between the 2016 and 2017 July deadlines, depending on whether the team is in contention.

And I'm not necessarily opposed to it, because he's not a free agent until after the 2017 season when he'll be 30 years old, and based on his health history and the fact that most players start to decline after age 30, would the Phillies really want to be tied to a long-term financial commitment to such a player?

I don't care about this at all, but Dom is just as dumb as the people who said those vile things to him if he really thought he could do something like this and expect no reaction from it. I know we all want to pretend we live in a society that's better than that, but we don't, and he's a moron if he thought what he did would be simply swept under the rug.

My guess is he did know and just wanted to rile up fans and he clearly did just that.

Awww does Dom Brown want a tissue? What boos does he here seriously? We boo Dom Brown? He's the only star on the Phillies lineup now a days, I don't think we boo him.... but is he talking about the previous 5 years, ya know when he was our "#1 prospect" and didn't do jacksh*t, and now hes 25 years old and finally producing? Screw him, trade him too. I'm sick of these players complaining about Philly. Go play for Boston or New York and you'll get booed just as much...or get injured in Houston and they'll boo you there and name a sandwich after you.

If this was pro wrestling, this storyline would stretch out into the season with Brown tanking, giving cryptic comments, and turning full on heel.

This thread is nauseating and only slightly worse than a "Red Sox vs. Cardinals World Series Open Forum" thread.

Really, please, start another thread. On anything. Obamacare. Andy Reid is 7-0. Pick-the-date-on-a- Michael Martinez return. How Tall is Too Tall for a Third Baseman? Marcus Vick Tweeting. Wait, scratch that last one.

Hey, Dom, at least you're not the most disliked player in your sport.

Waiting for the Ricky Bo monologue?

Was this linked to philly.com? The poster content took a serious downturn.

Philly Inquirer has become a sad, sad publication.

Sounds like the next Richie Allen in the making. Send him and Boras on thier way. Detroit looking to trade a starting pitcher , but I don't think they want him.

... given the Phillies' history with Boras, I'll be shocked if he gets extended while still under team control.

Are you referring to the Phillies being in the middle of a Thirty Years War with Scott Boras? Well that's nothing a few hundred million Dodgers Dollars won't fix!

Oh, fine. I'll go ahead & save this thread from itself.

Finding A Numbers Guy

Key line of bullshit: "I think it's just a matter of getting more information," [Amaro] said. "I don't know if it's going to change the way we do business, necessarily."

Translation: "We're going to make a half-assed, token move in an attempt to shut you annoying Sabermetrics assholes up, but the reality of the situation is we'll continue to operate as we always have: in a stubborn, insular fashion."

Zolecki's examples of how the Phillies themselves don't even appear to understand what "Production" means is particularly damning.

awh nails it. This pretty much makes it clear that no team friendly contract a la Ryan Madson is in the cards.

"The Phillies have been working with the Commissioner’s Office during their search. Major League Baseball’s Labor Relations Department works closely with teams and has helped make personnel recommendations in the past. The LRD also has developed resources for baseball operations staffs, including former employees like Pirates president Frank Coonelly and a number of assistant general managers."

Kind of an odd way to go about hiring an analytics guy.

GTown: Do you really think there are enough SABRmetric aficionados among the Phillies fanbase that it would help "shut up" a significant proportion of the disparaging voices?

Because I have serious doubts on that score.

All Dom Brown has to do is hit some home runs and this will blow over. In case you are worried though Dom, the vast majority of fans support you and will cheer you on as long as you play well.

Unload Two-month Brown before he loses what declining value he has. The key question is whether any trade will be invalidated when Dum Brown injures himself getting hit by the door on his way out.

The issue, of course, isn’t who Dom roots for on Sunday afternoons in the fall. It is that the Phillies (more than other local teams, IMHO) market the team based on image and personality as much as performance. Because fan appeal is such an important part of the business model, it was just stupid for Dom to do anything to publically tarnish that appeal. Conversely, when players from one Philly team go to games support another Philly team, it is publicized as a huge positive.

I’m puzzled that the PR folks (or groomers, of what have you) haven’t issued any guidelines for players in this regard.

What is even more puzzling was Cliff’s being reprimanded for the sunflower seed incident, which was all about having fun with his own teammates (which John Farrell just said today was important to the Sox’ success) but the organization letting something the tweet go by (or maybe they haven’t?)

Casey- you are part of the problem.

Phillibuster: Fans? No. Then again, the GM doesn't deal w/ fans. However, I'll bet r00b is tired of hearing about such things from sports media types, who have been rightfully baffled about personnel moves like the D. Young signing, & his apparent desire to re-sign Halladay (among others).

Man, it's not even 2014 and already Season: Over

The thought of the WIP crowd pining for some sort of SABR presence in the front office is pretty hilarious. I'm sure they base all their criticisms off of stuff they find on B-R and Fangraphs.

These are the same people that thought the Phils were 'doomed' in '11 because they 'shut it down' on their way to 100+ wins. Real heady stuff.

So, BL works hard to get rid of the spamming and maybe even the fake posting, then goes ahead and posts a header about the "backlash" and pity party relating to cheering for a team from a different city? I feel like even most Middle School gossip cliques would even dismiss this as a particularly pitiful waste of time and energy to appeal to the Philly area lowest common denominator (and the subsequent posts indicate that it was a successful attempt).

Really looking forward to next week's post about Jimmy Rollins' work ethic because he's been spotted talking to a retirement advisor.

News Flash Brown traded for Pence you know the right fielder who the Phillies miss and got nothing for. Thanks Rube.

Speaking of Dodger Dollars, I really hope the Dodgers go out and sign Cano or Price this offseason and become the team that everybody roots against next year.

Even more than a compelling underdog, baseball needs a team that is polarizing and ignites strong opinion one way. Yankees when they are relevant fall into the category but they just don't have talent or personalities in the FO right now.

MLB needs a bad guy and hopefully the Dodgers deliver this offseason. Too bad that Mattingly is their manager because it is hard to have a strong level of emotion for somebody so low-key.

How and why does Philadelphia end up with so many god damned crybabies?

Seriously, dude, if you think that Philly fans have been hostile with you, I'd have to argue that you may have never watched a Phillies game in your life prior to your major league debut.

These are the same people that thought the Phils were 'doomed' in '11 because they 'shut it down' on their way to 100+ wins. Real heady stuff.

Posted by: Iceman | Monday, October 21, 2013 at 07:52 PM


No 100 win team has won it all since the 1998 Yankees. Phillies lost 12 of 17 before Atlanta series scoring 2.76 R/G.

Excuse me. 2009 Yankees won 103. That's 2 teams in 16 seasons.

I was an advocate for giving Brown a full-season shot to show what he can do. Now that he has had the shot, I am not satisfied with his play. I think he's a pretty good hitter, but, despite the athleticism, the rest of his game sucks.

Brown is a contributor to the Phils' overall poor defense. For this reason, I would favor Brown's being replaced by another young OF with a better overall game.

Without knowing their availability nor what it would take to get them, I think of three players that would be upgrades: Desmond Jennings, Austin Jackson, and Carlos Gomez. All three play CF, at least part-time. Hence, obtaining one of these three suggests a re-do of the entire OF since Revere does not have enough pop for a corner outfielder.

Alternatively, if the Phils were somehow able to get Gomez, they could keep Brown and sign one of the FA outfielders who does not
receive a QO.

To clarify my last comment, if the Phils were able to trade for Jennings, he could play one of the corners, and Revere could remain the Phils' CF. Jackson and Gomez are pure center fielders.

Brown the baseball player:

Perplexed at how bad defensively he remains and still has little/no ability to judge the path of the ball off the bat or while in flight. At this point, it is hard to see him really improving either given he has had several seasons in the minors/majors as a corner OF. Just stinks defensively.

Two areas I am hopeful that he cam improve next year are getting his % BB back up to above average without sacrificing much power and making more progress on the basepaths. I wouldn't mind at all if Brown only hits 20-22 HRs if his OBP is ~.350 next year and he steals 18-20 SBs.

"No 100 win team has won it all since the 1998 Yankees. Phillies lost 12 of 17 before Atlanta series scoring 2.76 R/G."

Going to assume this was written in jest.

I'd love Carlos Gomez on the Phils. I'd also leave my wife for Jennifer Lawrence, which I figure is just as likely as Gomez being available in a trade.

"Philly doesn't love me, but fortunately the Front Office does!"

Since playoff expansion in 1995 there have been 21 100+ win teams. Only 6 made it to the World Series, and only 2 won it. None of the 3 Phillies 100 win teams has won a playoff series. 3-9 NLCS/NLDS record.

awh: "Angelo Cataldi appeals to the lowest common denominator among sports fans - I don't believe I've ever hear him utter one thing intelligent (not saying much for journalism school, is it?)."

Angelo is actually a very smart guy who could do an intelligent and interesting sports talk show. Management would fire him immediately. Hosts that drift above "lowest common denominator" are warned by management not to let it happen again.

WIP works on a very strict formula.

cesar: "Since playoff expansion in 1995 there have been 21 100+ win teams. Only 6 made it to the World Series, and only 2 won it."

Proving yet again that the best team almost never wins the World Series. It's the hottest and luckiest team.

Yet many posters here refuse to believe that.

The king of mocking intangibles says that the World Championship is determined by "hotness" and "luck". Interesting.

Brown's defense reminds me of Lonnie Smith. It's fun to think of Skates II as our stud prospect who will ride to town and save the day (and by "fun", I mean absolutely horrifying).

I can already envision Bowa ripping into Dom like Tiny Tim on a Christmas ham. Ala Scott Rolen. Never will forgive Bowa or Dallas Greene for the way they did Rolen.

Twitter BS aside, I would trade Brown for the right deal. His defense and general baseball IQ remain suspect, he is injury prone and he virtually disappeared after the All-Star break.

What exactly are they going to trade Brown for? A young, cost-controlled corner outfielder with some pop?

The good news is that if Dom isn't shown the door and his 1st half in 2014 is as bad as his 2nd half in 2013, Mini will still be only a phone call away...

Question for the board: would you trade Dom Brown and Ben Revere for the Upton brothers?

Argh! I'm hunting for the elusive right-handed power hitter named Stanton sighted most often in Miami and Brown be bait if necessarily to harpoon me Stanton!

I'm watching ESPN and the story was Jim Leyland retiring from managing the Detroit Tigers. The discussion turned up to who replaces Leyland and Cholly's name came up. Detroit would have to be really stupid and foolish to pick Foghorn.

If Detroit hires Cholly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they win a WS next year.

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