Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Lee can't get past fifth, Phils fall to Cubs | Main | Game 137: Asche returns as Phillies go for series »

Sunday, September 01, 2013

Comments

hey jack - michael young isn't on the Phillies anymore. You said a warm body is better than nothing. now you're bitching about the deal. which is it? are you happy young is off the team for nothing, or would you rather have Young on the team right now?

Amaro did get less by holding on to M. Young for another month.

Kahnle has had huge command problems and has a pretty good chance of washing out & never contributing but his upside is hell a lot more than either of the 2 marginal/non prospects the Phils got.

Basically a LHP fastball/slider guy with control issues and might be a contributor at the MLB level if the Phils get his poor mechanics worked out (Ogando) and an under-sized LHP who has a 3/4 delievery and will probably be in the mix next spring for a bullpen spot (Rasmussen)

Here are a few scouting reports on Rasmussen:

"Rasmussen was acquired in December for John Ely, a net gain for the Dodgers and their farm system. Rasmussen was drafted in the 27th round of the 2007 draft by the Dodgers. He didn't sign and ended up attending UCLA. The Astros popped him in the second round of the 2010 draft and was traded in July for Carlos Lee. Despite being a small pitcher, he's started 53 of 60 career games in the minors. He reached Double-A Corpus Christi, where he didn't fare particularly well (4.80 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, 4.07 FIP). Rasmussen has a four-pitch arsenal, featuring an 89-92 MPH fastball that touches 94, a slider that flashes plus potential, and a potentially average changeup and curveball. Like many lefties, he throws from a three-quarters arm angle. He also has a compact delivery. While he's likely destined for bullpen duty, there's no reason to pull Rasmussen from the rotation until he proves he can't handle it. He's definitely the exception, not the rule, when it comes to being big-bodied starting pitchers."

http://www.feelinkindablue.com/2013/05/dodgers-rob-rasmussen-establishes.html

From Fan Graphs earlier late last year:

"A scout I spoke to about the former UCLA pitcher sees a big league role in his future. “I think he’ll be able to get people out at the big league level but he’s got to get the ball down,” he said. “He’s up to 94 mph with two breaking balls. The little dude works his tail off.” Two concerns brought up were his lack of deception, as well as his command/control issues – although he has few red flags in his delivery.

Because Rasmussen has a short, slight build, it’s difficult to project him as a big league starter, although he’s been extremely durable in the minors by pitching almost 300 innings during the past two seasons. He’s also known for being competitive so he could have the perfect makeup for a reliever. I was given a loose comp to lefty reliever J.P. Howell, formerly of the Royals and Rays. If Rasmussen can find a way to get on top of the ball and create downward action on his pitches, while also harnessing his breaking balls, he could be a valuable piece of the Dodgers bullpen as soon as mid-to-late 2013."

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/los-angeles-dodgers-top-15-prospects-2012-13/

Surprised Amaro traded for 2 LHP relievers given they already have Diekman and Bastardo in the fold and really have a lack of MLB-caliber RHP relievers at AA and above.

Phils kicked in an undisclosed amount of cash in both deals too.

Literally did buy two LHP reliever 'scratch-off tickets' for next year.

Whatever issues these young pitchers have, I'm sure the Phil's minor league pitching instructors and coaches will be able to work with them to get it all ironed out. Bwaaaaa haa haa haaaaaa!!

Well, it seems r00b found his phone.

The most interesting BL plot over the next 48 hours will be clout and his unpaid but loving interns vs a half-dozen regulars. May it be to the death.

Riggs: I've said before- jack is a troll who is not interested in having an intelligent discussion. He just wants to be right so he can score Internet points and continually moves argument goalposts to do so. Amaro trading young was always going to make the usual suspects complain. It's what they do.

So it's 0640 on 9-1 right now and I'm wondering if Franko is preparing to he in Philly come Monday.

You take what you can get, but you know these "scratch-off ticket" players, like the ones they just traded for today, need to start working out for the Phillies. These last few years are peppered with a lot of additions like these - minor players the Phils targeted for a reason that end up playing an extremely minor role or are releases within weeks.

I have no problem with Young being traded. But, again RAJ gets little value back an return and the Phils kick in $$? That's absolutely ridiculous. LA is loaded. They should have paid US to take Young. And MG is right, they would have gotten more for him a month ago. way to go Rube.

Was kahnle actually the prospect offered a month ago...I remember there being conflicting reports from the national writers but didnt care enough to check it all out.

The name I heard NY was throwing around was Tommy Kahnle so I'm not so sure the value really changed all that much from the last minute in July to the last minute in August. Both might be half decent relievers. Though I don't get kicking in cash either but whatever.

Reading the posts at the end of the last thread, you just have to laugh. There are more posters than ever here that are straight from the WIP mold who offer no good ideas, but will bitch about everything the team does, even if it contradicts complaints they have made in the past.

People are talking about this Yankees prospect like he's Craig Kimbrel. What a joke.

TTI: Both the Yankees and Phillies denied the Kahnle trade offer as reported. That doesn't mean it wasn't discussed, or the may have been an actual offer but not the one reported.

However, for trolls like Jack, it is stone cold fact since it fits their narrative.

The odd thing is, despite what NEPP, Jack and others say about him, Kahnle isn't a very good prospect and neither are the two they got yesterday.

Unikruk: The most interesting thing I'm looking for on BL is to see if you ever make a post that offers insight or a fresh idea. Hasn't happened yet.

Nice that Michael Young is rewarded for professionalism in his role with the Phillies this year.

Jack all last month "Trade Young, he needs to be off this team. it's ridiculous he's on this team and when he's traded it will be a net positive. Anything we get back is better than MYoung."

Jack last night "This is crap that amaro got back for Young. What a horrible trade."

@MG

Actually I'd say Amaro only thinks he has Diekman in the fold, and even then there's no guarantee he'll be good next year (it can be argued that he's just a hot hand right now). Bastardo was a below average reliever in 2012, now 2013 rolls around and he's great...except he's taking PED's. You can't help but think that the performance improvement is for this reason only and he is going to regress significantly.

So he needs insurance. Savery is no good, same with Horst. He needs guys he can try in the bullpen because his number 1 priority is rebuilding it for next year.

As for getting "nothing" with Young, actually the yield likely would have been worse at the non-waiver deadline, and few big impact deals were struck because so many teams were still in it. Not to mention Young was only interested in going back to 3 teams (TEX, BOS, NYY). You're not going to get a top prospect for a utility infielder who's past his prime with an average bat and defensive issues, plus he's a free agent after this year. In fact, any team which had given the Phillies a top prospect for Young would have been extremely foolish. A bullpen prospect, a bottom of the rotation prospect, or a projected bench player/defensive replacement, one of the 3 is the most you could reasonably expect.

That last paragraph by the way isn't directed at you MG but at anyone complaining about the trade.

Well, if we paid LA to take a player that they didn't need to get Rasmussen, I guess that means someone in the organization thinks Rasmussen can play. Right?

I'm fine with trading Young yesterday. It made sense. Even something like Rasmussen is better than just keeping Young, who has zero value to the team at this point.

My criticism is not about trading Young yesterday. It's about failing to trade him earlier.

I have no problem with Young being traded. But, again RAJ gets little value back an return and the Phils kick in $$? That's absolutely ridiculous. LA is loaded. They should have paid US to take Young. And MG is right, they would have gotten more for him a month ago. way to go Rube.

Posted by: DPat | Sunday, September 01, 2013 at 07:58 AM

The Dodgers are getting 5-7 weeks of an old utility player who can't play defense and who's slugging under .400.

Yeah, they should've made it rain, all right. So delusional.

Young, a seven-time All-Star who will turn 37 in late October, saw his production at the plate vanish last year and has shown no signs of recovery. Young has hit .272/.333/.389 this season and just .231/.306/.323 in the second half. He has also been among the worst fielders in the major leagues over the last three seasons, costing his teams more than two full wins in the field in each of the last three seasons....

"We want your #2 and #4 prospects or no deal. And send us cash, too!" ---DPat

Phils have no plans to put Franco on the expanded September roster.

What's even funnier than this painting of Kahnle as the next Mariano Rivera: nobody complaining about this trade- not a single person- would have kept Young on the team until July 31st. They'd have dumped him for whoever weeks earlier, and said so repeatedly in the lead-up to the deadline. Kahnle was not offered until July 31, when Young finally said he'd accept a trade to a team other than Texas.

This is Monday Morning QB at its finest, and even the people participating in it have to realize the stupidity of what they're arguing.

I suppose that someone that may possibly have value to the team beyond this season > someone who is guaranteed not to have value to the team beyond this season.

Yak makes his return to the Rays. I'm sure everyone is on the edge of their seats.

So it is a foregone conclusion that Mini comes back with callups. Can't wait to see who else arrives. Groan.

I'm surprised any team gave up anything for Young. For that fact alone, this is a good deal in my eyes.

Seeing the Dodgers today against the Padres. I'll waive to Michael Young when I see him.

Unikruk: The most interesting thing I'm looking for on BL is to see if you ever make a post that offers insight or a fresh idea. Hasn't happened yet.

I find these posts rich. Complaining about the content of poster's posts while offering nothing in return.

This fits the old joke: "Nice trade, who'd we get."

Fat -- all the teams waived and the fans waved

And r00b waited and waited and then traded and paid

Hooray

And in other news.

Delaminates young has been recalled from AA to the TB Rays

Damn spell check should read Delmon

I support the trade, but I did like Michael Young. I liked him at 1B. I wish him well with the Dodgers. Lucky him, to go to a playoff-bound team!

I'm back again, bitches. You can't kill me. I ALWAYS come back.

Ready for my 17th chance to show my skillz and versatility.

Lets do this, ya'll!

Jon~ Point is that if they traded him at the deadline, they have gotten more for him. It's not what they gave up which I agree with you completely on it's what they got back which at this point is no more than org. filler. If the trade happens at the deadline they might have gotten someone who might actually seen the Major League roster. And to give up cash too is nuts. The good news in all of this is that Asche has the 3rd base job starting now.

"My criticism is not about trading Young yesterday. It's about failing to trade him earlier."


Jack, WTF difference does it make.

Read the Godfather's post above. They weren't going to get much for Young anyway. As clout noted, even Kahnle, assuming he was the guy the Yankees offered, isn't much of a prospect.

So, the only thing that the Phils could have saved is a few bucks - assuming the Yankee rumor was true - and I've been very clear on this blog about my feelings towards the Phillies' fiancés:

I really DGAS, so the only thing that matters is

Rasmussen vs. Hypothetical Kahnle.

That is,

Non-prospect vs. Non-prospect.

And people here get excised about it? What is this place turning into, a bunch of WIP callers?

Hey, I represent that remark!

"This is Monday Morning QB at its finest, and even the people participating in it have to realize the stupidity of what they're arguing."


Ummmm, Iceman, no they don't, and that ought to explain everything to you...

"Point is that if they traded him at the deadline, they have gotten more for him."


DPat, I guess your "source" told you so so this is a certainty.

Since you "know" they would have "gotten more for him", then you must know they player(s) they would have gotten in return, so could you please name them so that the rest of us will know too?

Thanks in advance.

"Jon~ Point is that if they traded him at the deadline, they have gotten more for him. It's not what they gave up which I agree with you completely on it's what they got back which at this point is no more than org. filler. If the trade happens at the deadline they might have gotten someone who might actually seen the Major League roster. And to give up cash too is nuts.

Posted by: DPat | Sunday, September 01, 2013 at 11:09 AM"

How do you know that? He was owed more money on July 31st than he was yesterday. You don't know what was offered for him on July 31st. All conjecture. For all you know Texas, Boston, NY, LA, etc all said that Amaro had to kick in cash to make it happen.

Wow, in my post above, the spell checker turned "finances" into "fiances".

DPat - Amaro lives in mortal terror of the limited partnership. If M. Young was (properly!) moved by July 31, it would have been an immense concession the team could not compete.

Amaro's job appears to be solely dependent on maintaining the illusion that the Phillies are contenders. It could be argued that's the reason players injuries are ignored, and moves that are intrinsically essential to rebuilding (fire sale at the deadline) cannot be contemplated; yet alone spoken about.

Big money from CBP and the pending TV contract notwithstanding, this team needs an ownership change. If only the FO had the courage to “take their medicine” and dump as many contracts as possible on July 31, the Phillies would be so much closer to long-term competitiveness.

All of this is of course assuming that the FO had the patience to build through the draft and through reasonable acquisitions. That would obligate that signing washed up old plow horses appearing brilliant 7 years ago would be a fire-able offense.

Does anyone think that the Phillies should take a flier on Daniel Bard as a kind of low risk, high reward venture? A lottery ticket (which was a clever way of putting used by one of the posters), if you will.

Rasmussen was actually showing up on Dodgers' Top 25 lists before this year, so he's not completely worthless as a prospect. His minor league numbers are certainly nothing special but he has pitched mostly as a starter. As a reliever, I would think he has a shot at making the big leagues. MG's scouting reports seem to indicate that he does.

I'm with BAP on this one. Rasmussen > Kahnle as a prospect, and it's not even close. Hat tip to RAJ for holding out and getting a better return for MYoung.

I really want them to claim Baird. Maybe he can rub shoulders with Pap's again and together rekindle there 8th and 9th inning power.

Yanks & M. Young

Amaro denied he had any trade in place and the Yanks denied it was Kahnle (wouldn't confirm a prospect).

Yanks do have several interesting relief prospects and you have to think that is what Amaro was discussing with them whether it was Kahnle or someone else.

Just going on the scouting reports alone, Rasmussen at least has a slim chance (say 10-20%) to contribute. For a change, the Phils picked up a reliever prospect who can throw strikes but just has some size issues (hard to get much downward movement on a fastball at 5'8' or 5'9) and issues in easily picking up his release point.

Weitzel is right though that the Phils need one of these guys to meaningfully contribute though next year at the MLB level and that's hard to see.

I'm not opposed at all to Amaro picking up more relief prospects at this point given what they were trading & the organizational relief depth outlook. They have exhausted every internal option at AA and above and found almost nothing of value.

Says Edmundo in a post that adds nothing.

Too funny.

Phils have been playing Asche regularly at 3B since July 31st too. M. Young has started there a few times vs LHP with Frandsen at 1B but I imagine Sandberg did that because he is trying to win as many games as possible to enhance his chance of being named manager next year.

Just wanted Asche to start everyday at 3B and given how pathetically Frandsen has hit & played at 1B in his starts & M. Young's defense at 3B, you can argue the Phils were better off anyway with Asche at 3B and M. Young at 1B vs LHP starter.

Colletti trading for M. Young doesn't make much sense either given that he already has Uribe.

J. Uribe may not be a better hitter than M. Young but he certainly is a much better defensive player at 3B.

Guess they picked M. Young to be another RH bat off the bat along with J. Hairston. He does upgrade that position and for little cost

Mets did win yesterday so the dramatic race for 3rd place in the NL East has the Mets a game ahead of the Phils.

Mets are on a 75-win pace which is what I thought they would be before the season (70-75 wins and safely in 4th place).

Nats are where I thought the Phils would be (68-67) and the Braves are doing what I did think any team in the NL East would do. On pace to win 100 games this year and have the best record in the NL.

Braves did that too despite being hit with even more injuries than the Phils and horrible production so far from B. Upton and Uggla. Kind of scary to think how good they would have been without some of those injuries.

Glanville~ How do I know? To me it's simple. Trading him to LA now won't help LA win the division. I believe they've already done that. He may get a some key hits for them in the playoffs.

If Young was willing to go to NY or Boston at the deadline (maybe to improve what chances those teams thought they had to make the playoffs at the time), maybe we get more for him. As far as the $$, it's the remainder of the money they got from Texas, so it's a was there. But trading him now doesn't help the Phis, and that's my point. It helps Young.

Cut~ Agree with your point on the ownership. But the team wasn't going to compete for anything. And we all knew that at the deadline. And their goose was certainly cooked after their post AS break swoon. I realize it all comes down to what he's allowed to do. And it all began with his lack of off-season moves.

But by the same token, I said a long tome ago I thought the Braves and Nats were better, that this team didn't have a shot anyway. If RAJ thought they did he's delusional. I thought they win 90 if everything went right & even that wouldn't get them in. And obviously everything didn't go right.

This team will be damn lucky to finish 3rd, and it appears that they've taken a step backward. While I agree with Ruf and Asche being given everyday shots & the signing of Gonzalez (especially at such a reduced contract), along with the young arms in the 'pen, there is still much work to be done to make this team into a playoff contender. Nothing has changed to change my opinion that RAJ is not the man who can be trusted to get that done.

maybe they'll callp JP Crawford

sure...NOW THAT would be insane

callp = call uo

call uo = i better proof my statements before sending out

31 Jul. '12: Phillies trade Shane Victorino to the Dodgers for Ethan Martin, Josh Lindblom & Stefan Jarrin.

09 Dec. '12: Phillies trade Josh Lindblom & Lisalverto Bonilla to the Rangers for Michael Young. Phillies agree to pick up $6 million of Young's '13 contract.

22 Mar. '13: Phillies release Stefan Jarrin.

31 Aug. '13: Phillies trade Michael Young to the Dodgers for Rob Rasmussen. Phillies also agree to include an undisclosed amount of money in the deal.


I'm still confused as to how trading anyone, even guys like LindBomb & Bonilla, for M. Young made any sense at all, esp. in the wake of Polanco's second tour in Philadelphia. M. Young was a slightly better offensive player, GDP issues notwithstanding, but Polanco was an excellent defensive 3B. The Phils were paying Polanco $5-$6 million per year, & they initially agreed to pay $6 million for M. Young's services for 1 year. The latter is only 1 year younger than the former, & both were/are "old" by baseball standards. They essentially cancel one another out. That the Phillies had to agree to throw money in w/ M. Young to make the L.A. trade happen is truly mind boggling. There simply doesn't appear to be any overarching plan involved when r00b & Co. make moves. They're so sensitive to where the wind is blowing at any given moment as to lack any substance whatsoever. Perhaps the FO falls ass-backward into a win if Martin & Rasmussen eventually turn out to be something special, but it's difficult to believe a chimp throwing darts at player profiles tacked to a wall wouldn't have at least equal chances of success.

Loss Chat ==>

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG