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Thursday, September 12, 2013

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Hall-of-Famers don't get benched for lack of hustle. Ever.

I would bet 100000000 dollars there are at least 40 guys in the hall of fame who got benched for lack of hustle at some point in their baseball career.

His perceived attitude or lack thereof(outside of Philly sports) will probably play a smart part in it. On numbers alone by his position he certainly enjoys exclusive company. Whilst i dont expect MVP #s from J-Roll i still think he can do more and at times i just get the feeling he put it on cruise control.

Jimmy will be a hall of famer. Imagine if he actually played with some heart and passion......

from last night: thanks lorecore. couldn't asche have developed "on the job" like schmidt in 1973? mike had quite a few errors and batted below mendoza, as we all know. and this after playing winterball. i know, asche ain't no schmitty, who lead his team to the college world series. but still, the myoung and yak experiments were unnecessary and infuriating.

Career wOBA, wRC+ and WAR are three important stats that show the careers of Larkin and Rollins not so similar.
wOBA - Larkin-.360; Rollins- .326
wRC+ - Larkin-118; Rollins-96
fWAR - Larkin-67.7; Rollins-45.4

I think Rollins has a shot at the HOF, but, in order to be elected, he needs to remain a starter for three years or more and to perform as he did in 2012, not 2013.

...except Wagner only hit 101 career home runs. Guess Rollins is twice as good.

Duh, name 40 guys who you think would have been benched for not hustling.

Opening a can of worms with the Rollins haters by asking if he will be a HOFer.

Not a hater; obviously, he has had a terrific career. But being one of the best of all time means you don't have multiple episodes of not respecting the game by not running hard to first, not making adjustments to your swing, etc.

He's a Wall of Famer, not a Hall of Famer.

...And that's not bashing him...the bar for the Hall is just really high.

The comp you should be looking at for Rollins is Alan Trammell. If Trammell can't make the Hall, what makes you think Rollins would have a shot?

I wouldnt say M. Young was so much of a experiment. We pretty much knew what we would get defensively out of him. The question was how much was left in the offensive gas tank. Overall we got what was pretty much expected. Asche was not quite ready for a call up to bigs and it would been a big mistake if they had done so. More so like bad planning from Rube who probably thought he would just extend Polly at the start of the 2012 season.

I think Rollins gets in...it takes a while though.

Rollins is an "aging and mostly washed up" future hall of famer.

Not sure about the HOF but thanks for the perspective on Jimmy. He's been around for a long enough time and has been so good overall, that many of us take him for granted, and even disparage him.

Also will again point out that he really was the first one who made a committment to the team a number of years ago, back before Howard and Hamels and Lee and Halladay were around, and at a time when I and many fans despaired of ever having another WS to watch with Phillies in it.

Would love to see him finish his career here in Philly.

That's interesting...hustle is now a qualification for the Hall. Must be part of the character clause.

Hustle is what got Pete Rose into the Hall...oh wait.

Also, fair or not but Rollins will be compared to his peers (SS of his era) by the voters...so take a look at the best SS of the past 20 years or so and you get guys like Jeter, Ripken, Arod (well, maybe not Arod now), Larkin, Vizquel etc.

Its a tough uphill climb for him considering.

"Hustle," whether you like it or not, affects perceived value. People love Chase more than Jimmy because he ALWAYS plays hard.

Also, Trammell is a great comp.

Unfortunately, Rollins/Utley will likely end up being the Trammell/Whitaker of their era. Two HOF quality guys that simply wont get in due to a variety of reasons.

Fair or not, that's likely the reality of the situation.

Tramm ended up with a career bWAR of 70.3.
Whitaker ended up with a career bWAR of 74.8.

The best Tramm has been able to garner is 36.8% of the vote (in his 11th year of eligibility).

Whitaker embarrassingly got 2.9% of the vote in his 1st year and was knocked off the ballot as a result.

No. 'Hall of Very Good' but he hasn't been the same caliber player since his leg injuries and the saber-oriented stats will notice the decent gap between Larkin and JRoll.

Counting stats also matter alot too and JRoll's fail off this year will hurt. If. He had a season like '12 this year and in '14 some of the totals including the HRs total might have started to sway more voters.

Chase will get in on a later ballot; his numbers may be borderline (though I think he compares to Sandberg), but he has the respect of the baseball writers, which may be the most important qualification.

Pretty much...he really needed to notch some of the key counting stats and the injuries/off years have killed his chances. He probably needed at least 2500 hits, 500 2B, 1500 Runs, etc...

I always liked the Chase/Sandberg comparison as well; but sadly, I think Chase will fall off the radar since he simply did not play at HOF level as long as Sandberg did.

Utley needs to vests some options before he gets into the conversation.

Rollins ends up short in my opinion. He just didn't have a good enough dominant stretch in his prime. The rarity of a power/speed combo at SS paired with an impressive run in his late 20s,capped by a MVP and a WFC, certainly gets him into the conversation - but in the end he never separated himself as hall worthy in my opinion.

***Chase will get in on a later ballot; his numbers may be borderline (though I think he compares to Sandberg), but he has the respect of the baseball writers, which may be the most important qualification.
***

I would love it if it happens but I'm not 100% sure it will happen unless he has a good couple more years.

Monty: "The same group that identified Jayson Werth to be a pretty good rightfielder when nobody else was chasing him is still the same people identifying that talent today."

Why do people evne interview the Phillies FO anymore? All they do is spew BS.

I'm sure Mike Arbuckle and his people that left with him had nothing to do with it...or Gillick for that matter. I'm sure Gillick is still involved in daily discussions and that he doesnt just get a paycheck for coming by once a month and wearing hawaiian shirts.

I suppose anyone who has claimed the Phils' FO are a bunch of short-sighted buffoons waiting to stumble ass-backward into the next Jayson Werth has to feel validated by that interview.

At least I know for certain that I'll need not worry about saving money for Postseason tickets in the next 3-5 years.

Gillick identified Werth since he drafted him for the Orioles. Since Gillick is technically a senior advisor on the Phils payroll, what Monty said was technically correct, albeit very misleading.

Monty: "The teams who have taken gambles on the bigger names, particularly the guys advanced in their careers, it really hasn't panned out for them."

What, like Ryan Howard?


bullit: even the greatest 3B in MLB history didn't skip AAA. It's impossible to know how much time in AAA helped Asche, but all evidence suggests that letting him start the season in the majors wold have been a very bad idea.

Monty on Rube:

One of the things Ruben has done well is, we make decisions. That's a good thing. Where you get in trouble in life is if you start to think you should make decisions and the people working for you should support your decision. We listen to the opinions of others and then we make decisions together, that's a good thing.

Translation to english: Rube does not have final say on anything and is merely a puppet for the Owners...he has no final decision making ability at all so everything that sucks is ultimately Monty's fault with Rube (A PR guy) as his chief advisor.


NEPP: And when I said weeks ago about that being the case with Amaro being a puppet based off The Rotation I was jumped all over as being an Amaro apologist.

Most notably- JTroll and MG.

Just woke up & read the MLBTR article on Monty. Was coming here to post about the ridiculous Jayson Werth comment -- only to find that lorecore & GTown had already beaten me to it.

Well, now you've got proof.

NEPP: It's my belief that r00b is allowed to make the personnel decisions largely by his lonesome, but they must conform to Monty's budgetary restraints. It's interesting because the latter takes pains to note the demarcation between the "money" guy (Monty), & the "baseball" guy (r00b). However, Monty also knows it's his duty to choose the supposed "baseball" guy for the GM position -- a job at which he has been woefully inadequate. Not only that, but the man is too damn sentimental about everything. There's a reason why people like Dallas Green & Wheeler & Ed Wade stick around for a lifetime. The same will be true for r00b &, if he decides to accept the offer, Manuel. A "money" guy ought to realize that's bad business.

b_a_p: Great minds ...

JRoll 6,Freddy 6.

TTI - We disagreed about the extent to what FO did. You basically stated that Amaro was just a complete 'Yes' man. That was what the disagreement about.

jr: The only difference between Galvis and Rollins is that Rollins is a borderline HOFer, and Galvis is a borderline MLBer.

Other than that, not much difference between them.

MG: And after reading Monty's quote that NEPP quoted how would you term Amaro?

Dave Montgomery, on Anthony Weiner's political future: "The same guy that got elected to the city council, when no one thought he could do it in 1991, is still the same guy running for political office today."

My vision of the FO is that Ruben is a mindless yes man to Monty, but that its Ruben and his lackey's job to go out and bring all of the available options to Monty to decide on.

So even though he's not making the final decision most of the time, he's the idiot presenting the list of "all the options" which are made up of all terrible ones.

Anybody paying attention when room traded Lee, Victorino and Pence would have had to have realized that He checks with Monty for everything. That's why they picked him for the job.

and i'm being very general. I'm sure there are small exceptions here and there.

Amaro had player personnel decisions but any significant dollar amount whether via trade or FA has to be signed off by Monty as the final arbiter and that really ties Amaro's hands one way or the other.

I would say it makes him a 'Yes' man but it does severely limit his flexibility.

Amaro dances to Montgomery's tune, or is fired. What's absolutely infuriating is how the big money contracts play no matter how compelling the evidence is not to play (Halladay, '12; Howard, '13).

The limited partnership must go. Otherwise, there's no way of telling how many years will pass before the team stumbles yet again onto a competitive lineup.

Lorecore: It is interesting the way you look at the situation. Let me ask this: Do we assume that Amaro brings a bunch of choices for right field to Monty and the best option is Delmon Young, or is Young the most- reward/cost option so Monty signs off on that one?

I think it's more like MG says: when RAJ wants to sign a big ticket guy who could potentially impact the rest of the budget, Monty must sign off. But I seriously doubt that Monty has anything to do with signing the Delmon Youngs, Chad Durbins, and Layne Nixes of this world.

I do think RAJ is a "yes man", but it's not shocking that a GM would have to go "upstairs" regarding making a move that has large budget implications.

The whole harping on D. Young really misses the boat.

Yeah D. Young sucked and was a bust who got released. The Phils also paid him a paltry salary on a 1-year deal.

Also about their 7th or 8th contingency plan this past offseason too. They got priced out offering a Swisher deal (who is having an underwhelming year in Cleveland) and passed on Ross (again an underwhelming offensive year), weren't able to sign Ichiro, refused to give into the ridiculous demands for Kubel or Soriano, and tried to land Willinghma in the Revere trade but weren't able.

The only other moves were trading for a bum like V. Wells or acquiring S. Hairston both have had terrible years.

Phils even gave D. Ruf a shot to win the starting LF job in spring and he really struggled defensively while not hitting.

Everybody craps on Amaro about D. Young but what were the alternatives and it was clear as day that Amaro thought D. Young was a poor option by the way he structured the contract & how late he signed him. Just exhausted all the other strategic possibilities. A lot of times an executive only faces bad choices or very limited ones with little/no upside.

Truth, MG. But it'll go straight from your lips to God's ears given it's about Delmon Young.

Jeter? Who else did you miss?

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