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Sunday, September 01, 2013


Arrieta threw 45 balls, including the first 2 pitches of the game to Bernadina -- who promptly swung at the third pitch and got roasted by Bowa for it on the post-game show. Bernie's below the Mendoza line and actually hitting for a lower averge with the Phillies than the Nats and yet he's leading off. With recent callups it's time for a legit leadoff hitter.

Kyle Kendrick’s troubling thoroughly pedestrian second half career continued while the offense had just four hits and one runner in scoring position ...


Strasburg, Gio, and Zimmermann. Sounds like the offense should rake this series.

Looks like maybe the 'new manager bump' has run its course.

Bernadina and Rollins That is a fearsome top of lineup

Hey, Mini Mac is gone, so that's something...

For Justin Moreau -- the twins get Alex. Presley and a PTBNL.

For Young. -- we get. Rob Rasmussen


Posted by: Malvernean | Sunday, September 01, 2013 at 12:22 AM

"For Justin Moreau -- the twins get Alex. Presley and a pTBNL.

For Young. -- we get. Rob Rasmussen"

Is Alex Presley some sort of prize? He's horrid.

Posted by: bay_area_phan | Sunday, September 01, 2013 at 12:24 AM

Trade update___________________________________

"HORRID" ALEX WENT 3 FOR 4 in his first game in a Minnesota uniform

I know its only 1 game-- but not horrid,

FWIW The PTBNL is a hard thrower RP -

Too early to tell how that will develop.

Good God, reading Malvernean's posts will eventually induce seizures.

As writing iceman's posts immediately induces douchivity.

""HORRID" ALEX WENT 3 FOR 4 in his first game in a Minnesota uniform."

Well, that settles it. He's obviously great.

I mean, are you seriously lamenting that we missed out on Alex Presley? A 28-year old journeyman with a .718 career OPS, who can only play the corner outfield positions? Yeah, that sounds just like the kind of guy the Phillies need. Because, if there's one thing the Phillies are short on, it's journeymen outfielders who can't hit.

I know nothing about Rob Rasmussen other than the fact that he's a 24-year old minor league pitcher who was picked in the 2nd round. That's all I need to know to conclude that he's got a better chance than Alex Presley of one day helping the Phillies.

I have changed my second half goal for the season. During the fisrt half it was to reach .500 and exceed .500. Now it is to reach being just ten games below .500 or better. What a sucky season!

I do like that people have already written the euology on Rasmussen's career.

Of course it is mostly the Debbie Downers

BAP: Malvernean, like many here, knows nothing about players on teams other than the Phillies.

Presley essentially brings two tools to the table: Speed and versatility. He's league average defensively at all 3 OF spots and can play some 1B in a pinch. He has little power, never walks and strikes out a lot for a guy with little power.

He's really a low-budget LH version of Mayberry except without the power, but with more speed. And his OPS vs. RHP (his strong side, .733) is much suckier than Mayberry's OPS vs. LHP (.855).

Presley is a Wal-Mart off-the-shelf 5th outfielder, maybe a 4th OF for a bad team.

So he'd be a starter on the Phillies then?

RobRass was a free pitcher. He cost nothing that wasn't already accounted for in a losing 2013 season.

If he does nothing at all, the trade is still a win for the Phils because it gives Cody and Ruf more AB and we get a free lottery ticket, all for a guy who has no role to play in our future.

Now, the Victorino trade, on the other hand...

Rasmussen throws 89-93 mph and has a slider, curve and changeup, none of which he can command consistently enough to make his fastball unhittable.

But his chances of making it are far better than Tom "can't miss" Kahnle, whose command problems are far worse. (FWIW, both Sickels & BA rank Rasmussen as good as or better than Kahnle, but that doesn't fit the Jack-NEPP narrative.)

At very least, scouts think Razz will have a career as a LH middle reliever, but there's a fair chance he can make it as back-of-rotation guy.

OTOH, Nefi Ogando, the guy from the Red Sox, is strictly organizational filler, probably will top out in Double A.

For all of you with a hard-on for Tommy Kahnle, he can probably be had during the Rule V draft, as I doubt the Yankees will be protecting him.


27-44 (.380) which is even worse than the 31-50 (.382) mark the Phils posted in '00.

Phils now have the largest negative run-differential (-117) in the NL. The pythagorean W-L puts them at 56-80 or a 66 game win pace instead of the 73 win pace they are on.

Only the lowly Astros at -189 and on pace to win just 53 wins are worse.

For a team built around 'pitching and defense', the Phils allow the most R/G in the NL (4.61 R/G).

27-44 is the road mark.

Phils have an easy schedule month including 6 vs Fish (9-4 vs them); 3 vs Mets (9-7); 3 vs a horrendous Padres team on the road (2-1 vs them); 4 vs Braves to end the season which will be treated as exhibition games by the Braves.

Not a question at this point whether Amaro can put a playoff contender on the field next year. Whether he can put a credible product on the field and not the embarrassment he has this season.

That photo is a candidate for the cover of the 2013 yearbook.

Yeah a 5'8'/5'9' LHP who has mediocre secondary stuff is someone to get excited about.

Phils desperately need arms (any arms) who might give them a boost next year in the pen but Rasmussen is just another name who Amaro or the next guy can hopes can give the Phils some meaningful contributions at some point even if it is over a season or two.

Rasmussen isn't a "free pitcher", as the Phillies somehow found a way to include cash in the deal. We'll see if it amounts to anything.

And the Victorino trade hasn't yet proven a total loss, depending on how far the Phillies push the "Martin as SP" thing. Not that said trade didn't suck, but at least it hasn't been an absolute fustercluck like, say, the Pence debacle.

"Who, Schierholtz? We don't want that guy! Oh, fine. We'll just grant him FA, move Dom to LF & sign Delmon Young ... Yeah, that's the ticket!"

(The much maligned Pence, meanwhile, is having another fine season.)

MG.... You stated that the Phils upcoming schedule was easy with the Fish, Mets and Pods. And the braves treating those games as exhibition's.
Let me ask you this in jest. I wonder what those teams are saying about the Phils on there schedule. Makes you just go hmmmmmm. And as far as the Bravos? Aren't we already playing like the games are exhibition's? Maybe they're not trying to, but they sure seem like it.

Ruf was the offense today with a 1-3 and a BB.

He's had some really strange splits this year (coming into today):

Home - .290/.388/.610 with 9 HRs in 116 PAs
Road - .203/.282/.333 with 2 HRs in 78 PAs

RHP - .290/.378/.548 with 8 HRs in 143 PAs
LHP - .156/.255/.356 with 3 HRs in 51 PAs

Chalk it to SSS. I have noticed too that more pitchers seem to be willing to not throw him a first-pitch fastball or a fastball with 2-strikes either and let him take a BB instead.

Really struggles with a slider from a RHP or a good cutter that is moving ahead from him. Really anything on the outer part of the plate is a good place to attack him. Also can't hit a high fastball in the zone that has any kind of velocity on it.

Wonder if Ruf will remain as selective as he has been so far once opposing pitchers start to know his weaknesses a bit more and attack them.

His numbers have been declining a bit the past few weeks and I do wonder how he is going to fair in Sept. One of the few things worthwhile to watch this month.

I could care less if he %K at a ~30% rate and only hits .250-.260 as long as his BB remains where it is now and he is selective enough to still hit for decent power numbers.

I doubt this will actually happen, but at this point is KK a non-tender candidate? He's looking at a substantial raise in arbitration, and has he really demonstrated anything that makes you think he's worthy of it?

Ruf is fun to watch, but it's kind of pitiful when he is the only offense.

Ashe looked lost at the plate today, and Brown as a PH on a sore Achilles scares me.

I have visions of Howard going down in a heap, just trying to get out of the batters box, dancing in my brain.

"I doubt this will actually happen, but at this point is KK a non-tender candidate? He's looking at a substantial raise in arbitration, and has he really demonstrated anything that makes you think he's worthy of it?"

Amaro's going to want to free up as much money as possible for filling holes via free agency (it's all he can do). Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Well, that was ugly. I bet Michael Young couldn't pack fast enough to get off this train-wreck of a team.

It would be interesting to find out how the defense has been in the last 12 starts for KK.

I know there were a few games where the defense completely shat the bed but thanks to the nature of the dart throw that official scorers seem to do, he was given earned runs.

Not saying he has been lights out but the D has been getting worse and worse as the season went on.

Jack and NEPP spout nonsense about Rasmussen according to clout, but then MG tops it all by criticizing the guy based on his height.


You guys need to read scouting reports instead of just flying off the handle because Amaro did something you wouldn't have. If Kahnle was the prospect the Yankees offered (again- not confirmed) he is a lottery ticket just like Rasmussen. But all the scouts appear to agree that Rasmussen is a better lottery ticket. If you want guys who throw hard with spotty command you can tune in when Diekman pitches, or head to Lehigh Valley and watch Aumont pitch. And MG- both those guys are over 6 feet tall.

TTI: "If you want guys who throw hard with spotty command you can tune in when Diekman pitches"

The Phils will be lucky if Rasmussen turns out as good as Diekman.

Rasmussen will never be a 3B with that height.

Rollins since Sandberg took over:

.175 .338 .246 .584

at least he's walking right??

Chris in VT: Kendrick is a back-end SP, nothing more, nothing less. His record over the past 3 seasons shows he's one of the better 5th starters in the NL and he'll get a contract in the $8M-$10M per season range from some team, probably for 3 years.

Most folks here want to see him gone because it makes them feel better. But I'll ask you the same question I ask every one else here who wants to see so-and-so gone. Who replaces him?

The above comment was acutally mine. Forgot to sign in to Typepad.

MG: I wouldn't say Rasmussen's stuff is mediocre, but his command sure as hell is.

In any event I agree that he's nothing to get excited about. Which leads me to ask this question: Why did you get excited about Kahnle?

Height doesn't matter when a pitcher tries to get downward movement on a fastball? Ditto with the ability to generate consistent velocity at a decent clip.

There are a couple of reasons shorter guys have an issue sticking at the MLB level but those are two of the main ones.

Corn: "It would be interesting to find out how the defense has been in the last 12 starts for KK."

Kendrick BABIP in July: .365
Kendrick BABIP in August: .354

Kendrick's best pitch is a groundball-inducing sinker. His GB% this season is 49%.

"It would be interesting to find out how the defense has been in the last 12 starts for KK.

I know there were a few games where the defense completely shat the bed but thanks to the nature of the dart throw that official scorers seem to do, he was given earned runs.

Not saying he has been lights out but the D has been getting worse and worse as the season went on."

Same with Hamels. Some of the worst defense I have ever seen and it all goes on the pitcher's line. Official scoring should be reviewed when someone can't catch a fly ball in the OF.

Let somebody else pay KK the money. We've already got a cheaper version of him by the name of Cloyd.

Outside of Jack I've never heard anyone suggest Diekman is a better prospect than Rasmussen. Diekman never made BA's Top 30 Phillies prospects even once.

But, again, Jack has an agenda and a narrative and fcats be damned.

And not only does he say fcats be damned, but facts too.

limoguy: If you believe Cloyd can post a 96 ERA+ as a 5th starter over the next 3 seasons, then your opinion is a sound one.

My personal opinion? Cloyd couldn't even reach 90 ERA+.

I think the book on Ruf is already out, isn't it? Since the man does possess decent pitch recognition and selectivity, he wouldn't be boasting a 30% strikeout rate if opposing pitchers didn't know where to throw to get the punchout.

From what I understand, the hole in Ruf's swing low-and-away is partially attributable to swing mechanics. I wonder if Joyner tries to fix it this off-season, or if he doesn't want to risk screwing up the only .850+ OPS bat the order's got.

"If you want guys who throw hard with spotty command you can tune in when Diekman pitches"

And if you want guys who can't throw hard and have spotty command you can tune in when Halladay pitches!

rellis: The BABIP stats suggest your observation is correct.

Juums: Don't all RH hitters have trouble low and away?

"I know there were a few games where the defense completely shat the bed but thanks to the nature."

I have nothing in particular to say in response to this post. I just thought it deserved to be reposted because it's so rare to encounter proper past tense usage of the verb "to sh*t."

Cloyd wishes he was as good as KK

Absolutely, but it's a bit deeper for Ruf. I still think Longenhagen over at Crashburn Alley wrote the fairest treatment of Ruf's mechanical difficulties on 10/5/12, most of which we've seen in the 200 or so PAs Ruf's logged this year:
"Now, there are a host of issues. First, Ruf has a hole in his swing on the outer half because his front foot doesn’t come all the way closed before he swings. Ruf starts with an open stance but never draws his left foot parallel to his right, limiting his reach and thus, his plate coverage. Second, he doesn’t identify good breaking balls well. You can see this in the ugly swings Ruf takes at them as well as in his weight transfer. You can see Ruf’s girth disproportionately shifted toward his front foot. Even when he does pick up the curve, he’s habitually early on them. Those two deficiencies in lockstep with one another are tough to overcome. Breaking ball away, breaking ball away, breaking ball away… won’t be pretty once advance scouts figure it out. Even when he does bring that front foot all the way around, it gets down late and Ruf’s entire swing begins late as well. This leads me to believe that he’ll struggle against good velocity up and in as well. These are things advance scouts will notice in the Majors and exploit."

I think it's worth noting that the big thing Longenhagen's been proven wrong about if Ruf's ability to identify breaking pitches: He's done fairly well at not looking like Ryan Howard flailing after sliders low and away. But there does seem to be a genuine mechanical issue there, and I wonder if Ruf's improved conditioning from being an everyday OF and some conscious effort this off-season could remedy it.

Ugh! Martinez back in time for Cole Hamels' start. Cole is saddled with this guy every time he pitches.

Ruf has an .895 OPS in 235 career PAs. I wish all our hitters had the same "mechanical difficulties" that he has.

(a) Pay Kendrick $8-10 million, & lose when he starts.

(b) Pay Pettibone, or Cloyd, or Gonzalez (& on & on) a fraction of that, & lose when he starts.

I'm not sure wherein the controversy lies.

Shame about KK. He was looking like he was shaping up to be a reliable middle of the rotation starter.

Yeah, I know he's still a serviceable 5th starter, but this team doesn't need that. It needs to find surplus value wherever it can. Doesn't look like KK is going to b provide that anymore.

Indeed! We'd be rather like the Braves at that point, chockablock with guys who'll strike out at least once a game but who'd also be good for crushing the ball just as often.

Of course, if the Phils had a feast-or-famine offense, we'd lack the Braves luck with it: The Braves have always had somebody else who'd been hot to balance out the seasons B.J. Upton and Dan Uggla had. For us, all of our guys would feast at the same time, and then experience famine at the same time.

a) Pay Kendrick $8-10 million, & lose HALF THE TIME when he starts.

(b) Pay Pettibone, or Cloyd, or Gonzalez (& on & on) a fraction of that, & lose EVERY TIME when he starts.

GTown: Fixed it for ya.

clout: The Phillies aren't going to be a Postseason team either way. Best to reinvest the money elsewhere.

I'm giving our pitchers a pass this year. The defense has been and continues to be brutally bad. Last night, I saw 3 rather blatant errors - Kratz, Asche, Ruf - and wasn't even paying close attention to the game. And nothing's going to change next year. It could even be worse, depending on how much time Ruf, Howard and Revere see on the field.

Juummms - That is a pretty good writeup. I'd agree that Ruf's biggest issue is plate coverage but that he also struggles on stuff up in the zone. Clearly prefers pitches from the waist down.

If I were Joyner, I would let well enough alone with Ruf right now. He's being selective at the plate and not chasing that much stuff off the plate that is out of the zone

Given Ruf's strikeout rate, I'm certain the only reason continuing to find success is because he has a solid grasp of the strike zone and the pitch recognition skills to make use of it. As if you can lay off the stuff out of the zone and force opposing pitchers to throw things that could be called strikes, they'll either miss outside (for an easy ball), miss inside (providing a pitch to hit), or hit their spot and leave you fuming at the called strike. And given the control of the average MLB pitcher, that third result is going to turn up the least often.

It really is an accomplishment by GTown to complain about so many things ad nauseam without ever bringing up a single solution, or say what he'd do, other than 'Get someone else.'

Why do this when you can call in to WIP and scream into your phone for 30 seconds?

The problem with nontendering Kendrick is that the SP free agency market this coming off-season is woefully thin. It's questionable whether you could even replace Kendrick with what you'd've paid him in arbitration, given the inevitable salary inflation.

There's also the fact that, for all of the whining about lack of depth, more than a few folks seem ready to cut loose a guy whose floor is a #5 starter and who has flashed mid-of-the-rotation stuff for extended periods this year. I'm of the opinion that, for depth reasons alone, you tender Kendrick and Lannan: If, in the event that Spring Training or April goes swimmingly and you get a breakout from Gonzalez, Pettibone, Cloyd, Morgan, or someone else that makes Kendrick and/or Lannan redundant, you've got the ability to move them at a price that is going to be markedly lower than what would've been paid on the FA market.

Iceman - GTown's a big boy, and can take care of himself. Regardless, most of what he writes provides a healthy dose of humor, and is often witty and ironic. Also, GTown's posts nearly always focus on players or management. Refreshing.

Anyway, too bad about Kendrick - from everything I've seen recently, there's a bright-line distinction between pre-concussion and post-concussion Kendrick. I'd really like to see him shut down today, as it would be terrific to get that pitcher back who always has a CGSO lurking.

Problem is, if he's shut down today, there's no guarantee he'll improve. Some concussions result in permanent impairment. What might be most important for Kendrick, anyway, is if he's shut down, he can't show improvement and will have no shot at a long-term deal in '14.

I can't recall a team more snake-bit - or maybe just flat out mismanaged - than this year's Phillies.

With Alfredo only getting $4m, I would tender kk, and pass on Doc.

Hamels $25
Lee $25
Alfredo $4
Kk $7.5
Pettibone 500k

Add a handful of flyers for 6th starters.

If(when) the season turns south, even kk at a ~95 era+ will be a trade chip. I posted it before, but the pieces given up for guys like Norris nolasco feldmen, etc are better assets than an extra 7.5m to spend on +30yr FAs

Juums: Kendrick's in his last year of arbitration; his price is not going to be markedly lower than what he'd get in free agency. And, for that matter, neither is Lannan's. He made $2.5M last year and that WAS through free agency. And, if he's tendered a contract, his salary is only going to go up. That's just how arbitration works.

I do understand how salary arbitration works: It's the result of years of service time and performance in the platform year. With regard to Lannan, as he's missed half of the year due to injuries, that's going to drive his salary down in arbitration. The projections I've seen put him at a ~$3MM payday, which is just a bit north of what we paid him this year. While his upside draws derision, if he's healthy, he'll provide 150-180 IP of league averageness, which can be hard to find for $3MM.

As for Kendrick, he's in line for something like $7-8MM in the best-case scenario for him at arbitration. Splitting the difference and calling it $7.5MM gets you...the AAV on Joe Blanton's deal with the Angels last year. Blanton and Kendrick are comparable (92 vs. 95 career ERA+) while Kendrick's almost four years younger. I think you're looking at closer to $10MM in free agency than $8MM given the upcoming FA class, in which case tendering Kendrick could produce a surplus of value.

clout - no idea who replaces KK in the rotation, just putting some speculation out there that it could happen. He's looking at 9-10 mil in arbitration this year, most likely, and I honestly wonder if the FO is unenthused about the prospect of paying him that much.

Gains that KK has made over the past 2 seasons or thereabouts appear to be lost (3-8 with a 6.23 ERA over his last 12 starts). For a ground ball pitcher like Kendrick to get hammered by a lousy Cubs team is disgraceful - the 4th inning had him giving up 3 hits, and he hit a batter, too. That king of inning is hard to blame on the defense - the hit batsman appears to be a lapse in concentration.

Just as I no longer harbor illusions of a breakout season by John Mayberry, so I also no longer believe Kendrick is anything more than a scuffling sinkerballer who hangs too many pitches. Who would pay $10mm for that? Best wishes to Kyle; I hope he gets his mojo back.

Starting for Reading this afternoon: Severino Gonzalez, the 20-year old pitcher who has blown through Lakewood & Clearwater this year.

Bap: I saw that, excited to see not only the results but what some of the AA scouts say.

Amaro has said previously that MAG would be the rotation but not until mid-2014 at the earliest.

One reason KK might be back is because they don't really have any starting depth in the organization right now and have had to scramble to find starters in August. Why Halladay was brought up early and Martin is still in the rotation.

Given the health question marks around Pettibone and Morgan, the Phils are probably going to be looking for another FA starter possibly even if they resign KK.

If I'm Amaro, I offer Kendrick 3-4 million for next season right now. If he doesn't take it, I would non-tender him. Don't know what his problem is. If it's the concussion, I don't know what to say. Yea, Phillies medical staff. If not, he is pitching well below his past few seasons and his only strong point would be durability.

The only reason to offer him even that much is that the minor league system is barren. Morgan appears to be terminally injured, and as we know, shoulder problems do not just go away, even if repaired (see Joe Savery, Doc Halladay, every other pitcher who ever had a shoulder problem other than Schilling.)

Cloyd can be a fifth starter on a bad team, but will never be more than that. Biddle is clearly not ready. Martin is not a starter. And Rasmussen sounds like a classic guy who will benefit from a move to the pen also.

As bad as the Phillies are going to be next season, I'd rather they move on from all mediocrities. I had great hope that KK had somehow turned a corner and was going to continue to be productive. That looks to have been a pipe dream. The reason I'd offer him even a lowball offer is that for 3-4 million, he could actually be a long man out of the pen if necessary and not be overpaid. And I just don't see any other team offering more for him in free agency at this point.

And one other thing. If there are any other MAG type pitchers available before next season, I'd like to see Rube continue to be aggressive in the international market. If he'd been active over the last two or three seasons, this team would look a whole lot different now.

FWIW: Keith Law think the Yankees deal was better than the Dodgers deal re: Young.

"If there are any other MAG type pitchers available before next season, I'd like to see Rube continue to be aggressive in the international market."

Agree completely. And we know they have the means to do it since they're only paying MAG $12M, after being prepared to pony up $60M. Of course, do I think there's even 1 chance in 100 that the Phillies will sign another international FA this off-season? No, I do not. I am incredibly skeptical that MAG represents some kind of change in organizational philosophy. He's just RAJ's showpiece, so he can say, "See, we can sign international free agents too."

KK is really pitching his way into being non-tendered during the offseason. Hamels, Lee and Gonzalez are locks for the rotation next year and Pettibone seems logical. That leaves one open spot and my money is still on Doc.

bay_area_phan: The Phillies tend to sign a couple of international free agents each year. I'm not saying they're aggressive, but they don't exactly ignore the market. The Gonzalez signing is the most high-profile signing they've made in the international market.

For those who forgot... less than a month ago, the Phillies singed the #4 rated international free agent. 3B prospect Luis Encarnacion from the Dominican Republic. He just turned 16 years old but is a big prospect already because of his bat. He'll likely project to LF or 1B.

KAS - Every team signs guys like Encarnacion at some point. He is a 16 year old lottery ticket. The guys I'm talking about are the non-capped international free agents. They are older and have played in a foreign pro league for at least three years. Much less of a guessing game. And all they take to sign is money. For some reason the Phillies have been allergic to such signings until it became obvious that they were idiots. Aroldis Chapman would have looked nice in the pen, and much cheaper than Crapelbon. Then there were the Soler's and Cespedes' of the world. Not to mention Yu Darvish. And Puig, of course. Of all those, the only one I understand not signing was Darvish because of the posting fee. But how different would this team look if instead of tying up declining vets and expensive free agents, Rube had instead looked overseas.

KAS: You are talking about international amateur free agents, the likes of which all teams sign. I am talking about international professional FAs, who go right to the 40-man roster.

So the theory is we signed Gonzalez just so we can say, "See, we sign these guys, too."

Seems strange.

Height doesn't matter when a pitcher tries to get downward movement on a fastball? Ditto with the ability to generate consistent velocity at a decent clip.
So pitchers now need to be a certain height to generate consistent velocity? Wow! Just wow!

Also, I know cut fastball is like GTown's #1 fanboy but GTown should be embarrassed that the only person he really inspires on here is the guy who said Hamels sucks because he doesn't make the team feel warm and fuzzy.

KAS: No stranger than having Mini-Mart on the 25-man roster 3 years in a row, or believing that Delmon Young's defensive deficiencies would go away if only he were moved to RF.

Taller pitchers do have a mechanical advantage. It's undeniable. But there are certainly exceptions. Pedro Martinez and Billy Wagner come to mind.

Bartolo Colon threw hard. So did Oswalt.

The point is you can't paint with such a broad brush like MG is trying to do and I would guarantee MG (much like myself) has never seen Rasmussen throw a baseball ever. So he has no way of knowing anything he is saying is true except for he made up an argument in his head and is now going to see it through for the next few years.

Also the scouting reports I've seen say Rasmussen doesn't necessarily have a problem getting movement with his fastball. So another MG argument blown out of the water.

bay_area_phan: Neither of those decisions cost millions of dollars. You're suggesting they were prepared to spend around $50M just for appearance sake.

Not sure why we're spending so much time talking about the guy we got for Michael Young. He'll likely never make the majors. And neither will the guy the Yankees wanted to trade us for Young.

Michael Young had near-zero value in the trade market. That's why your only return is fringy MiLB relievers with terrible control.

KAS: Well, I was being flip. I don't think they signed him solely for appearance sake. But I also don't think his signing represents a paradigm shift in organizational philosophy. I think they still regard international FAs as exceedingly risky, and that they are wading into this area very cautiously. And God forbid MAG should turn out to be a bust. If that happens, it'll probably be another 30 years before they ever venture back into the international FA market.

Oswalt was listed at 6'0' and Colon is at 5'11'

The scouting report I listed the other day said that getting downward movement on his fastball is an issue for Rasmussen.

I've have never seen Ramussen throw and only know what the various scouting reports say but go look around for a 5'8' or 5'9' reliever in MLB right now.

You won't find one.

'Too short to play 3B' was a good punchline but that was only because TommyMVP insisted the 3rd baseman needed to be at least 6'2' or 6'3'

Well, the fire at the Dietz and Watson warehouse is making national news. Just saw it reported on out here in Vegas. But there is some good news. Dietz and Watson just announced a sale on smoked . . . everything.

At least GTown's posts nearly always focus on baseball players and management.

Something that some of the cattiest hear might learn from. It's getting hard to tell who's "trolling".

I'll correct my previous statement:

There are 2 pitchers on MLB rosters currently who are listed at 5'9' or less:

- Joe Ortiz (5'7') with the Rangers
- Tim Collins (5'7') with the Royals

Both are LHP relievers. Collins throws consistently at 93-94 and has a very good changeup along with an average curve.

Joe Ortiz is probably a better comp. Throws at around 90 MPH and has a below average graded slider and above average changeup. His command in the minors though is better than Rasmussen and he put up some impeccable BB/9 rates the last 3 seasons at AA/AAA (1.64 BB/9).

There are shorter relievers who are dominant including Romo (5'10') and Kimbrel (5'11') but Rasmussen doesn't remotely throw as hard as either of them (89-92 MPH) and doesn't have a slider the caliber that these 2 guys have.

Rasmussen might make it here and sounds like a guy who works really hard. Savery did too but he simply didn't have a good enough secondary pitch or fastball command/control to make it at the MLB level as a middle reliever.

BJ Rosenberg is an interesting example of a reliever who has made some changes since he came back up.

Given up trying to throw his straight as an arrow fastball by hitters as much at 95-96 MPH and settled for better control at 93-94. Slider also is notably better too. I would be interested to hear from him who worked him on it and whether it was the Lehigh staff or the Philly MLB staff.

Wish he would junk his hanging curve, go fastball/slider with the occasional changeup. Maybe the Phils found a marginal enough MLB reliever even if his command is still a little too spotty at times.

MG your argument is already dissipating and you are driving holes in it. Really kind of funny to watch you do that. MG: Oswalt was listed as 6 foot. I'll bet you one million Internet points he wasn't. Also, Colon wasn't 5'11". And the amount of releivers under 6 foot is kind of irrelevant without knowing, how many minor league relievers are under 6 feet tall? How many pitchers in college or high school are 6 feet tall? Perhaps the major guys just stink. Again- entirely too many variables in the argument to speak definitively like you are trying to.

cut fastball: Yes we all get it. you have a man crush on GTOwn. He trolls. He trolls in a different way and one more to your liking.

In fact, I would lump De Fratus and Rosenberg in the same boat right now. Guys who throw 93-94 MPH on their fastball with spotty command and with an average slider as their primary offspeed pitch. Rosenberg mixes in that crummy curve and a changeup. De Fratus has a changeup he seldomly uses.

Bullpen next year:

- Papelbon
- Adams (who knows and haven't heard any word on how his surgery went; he is like Contreras was his final year here in that it is probably is a question mark of when he will break down and not if)
- Bastardo (question mark)
- Diekman (pitched himself into the picture)
- Rosenberg/De Fratus and holdovers including Stutes/Horst/Aumont? (with a new pitching coach)

Imagine Amaro brings in via FA or trade at least 2 acquisitions who have MLB experience even if they are modest dollar signings.

I would like to see Martin moved back there too but who knows.

Height: 6' 0", Weight: 190 lb.

Height: 5' 11", Weight: 265 lb

I doubt they are as long as they are listed but then again I doubt Rasmussen is 5'9' either.

There are 2 guys in MLB baseball who are as short as Rasmussen and both bring things to the tables (Ortiz and his command) and Collins (higher velocity/good changeup) that Rasmussen doesn't have.

Last dump on Rasmussen point:

This is his 4th different organization since he was drafted.

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EST. 2005

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