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Tuesday, September 03, 2013

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Dom Brown has hit just eight homers since June 8. If he wants to play with the big boys, he will have to pick up the pace.

If Rollins cared, he'd have been able to score standing up.

Love those W's. Team seems to be finding ways to win rather than to lose.

Does Aumont mean garbage in French?

Charlie Manuel got chastized every season for leaving his pitchers in too long. Some even speculated on this site that was the reason behind Doc's injury. He was ripped constantly for it. I remember reading people constantly saying it's better to remove a pitcher too early than too late.

Now a manager removes a pitcher for cautionary reasons because of a bad bullpen session that was attributable to a sore back. Sandberg gets ripped mercilessly in the prior thread for it.

So which is it BL? Isn't this the same approach you wanted Manuel to take? Why the sudden change of heart for the new manager?

derek: Those 8 HR have came over 56 games started since June 8th - that's a 23 HR pace over the course of a season. Not a problem to me.

Most original DOM supporters were in his corner for the belief that his plate discipline was going to allow him to be a 20 HR guy who also would get on base in the high .300s, not I am perfectly fine with a 23 HR pace.

I do agree however, that if he relies on an aggressive approach for his success like he has this season, then the HR will need to be much more frequent as you suggest. Very interested to see if he just got hot and stuck with what worked, or if that will be his underlying approach for the rest of his career.

burb: last night, sandberg made no mention whatsoever of Hamels back. He was asked mutliple times if there was anything else at all going on with Hamels and he said no each and every time.

I am much more agreeable to the decision hearing that Hamels was dealing with back soreness.

If you take out Cole's first 2 starts of the season, he has the following line:

27 GS, 182.1 IP, 3.06 ERA, 167 SO, 38 BB, 8.2 SO/9, 1.9 BB/9, 5.4 SO/BB, 1.114 WHIP

Basically, standard Cole Hamels. Well worth what he's paid and not worth any criticism at all this year. Two crappy games at the start of the year are really throwing his numbers off. Otherwise, he'd have an ERA+ in the 130ish range instead of his current 109. Also, his ERA in 2012 was 3.05 and in 2010 was 3.06 and his previous 3 seasons (2010-2012) has him at a 2.97 ERA.

Ho hum, another great year from Colbert.

"So which is it BL?"

I'm always amused by such challenges to the board, as if there is an orthodoxy of thought among the posters here. I wasn't on the game thread so, I don't know if it's the same people criticizing the move. I generally liked Manuel's approach and would certainly have preferred Hamels stay in last night, ignorant of the reasons for his early hook. If I would fault Manuel, it would be him often not being prepared to remove a pitcher by starting a reliever in the late innings even when sending the starter back out but, I get the other side of the issue.

The game easily could of went south but Ryno pushed all the right buttons. Great to be back and pitch in on a W.

"Now a manager removes a pitcher for cautionary reasons because of a bad bullpen session that was attributable to a sore back."

Could it be that, if the peanut gallery were privy to the information which we found out only this morning, the game thread comments would have been less critical?

Could it be that, if the peanut gallery were privy to the information which we found out only this morning, the game thread comments would have been less critical?

____________________________________________

Could it be that maybe people don't have to immediately jump to conclusions all the time?

I thought that Hamels was joking even about having a sore back.

I still think he sounds like the whole statement was a joke, not just the bar-hopping part.

* * * *

"I injured my back a couple days ago bar-hopping in Chicago. I don't suggest that," the Phillies' prized left-hander said with a straight face intact for his first sentence before reporters and Hamels laughed.

Then Hamels unleashed the real reason behind his warm-up pitches prior to the Phillies' 3-2 come-from-behind win over the Nationals at Citizens Bank Park on Monday night.
More sports stories, pictures and videos! @themorningcall.com.

"Sometimes later in the year, it's just a little harder to get loose," he said.


Read more: http://www.mcall.com/sports/mc-phillies-cole-hamels-nats-0902-20130902,0,3979207.story#ixzz2dq7WHrXy
Follow us: @mcall on Twitter | mcall.lv on Facebook

Sorry, I forgot to edit out the advertising that accompanies a copy & paste.

TTI: "Could it be that maybe people don't have to immediately jump to conclusions all the time?"

And could it be that maybe the people accusing others of criticizing Sandberg or jumping to conclusions are just making stuff up to fit their narrative that anyone who criticizes the manager is a hypocrite? Unless I'm missing one, here's the entire list of in-game comments on Cole's removal. Not a "conclusion" among them:

"Why is Cole done after fewer than 90 pitches?" GBrettfan

"Is there something wrong with Cole, or does Sandberg want to lose the game?" GBrettfan

"Why is Hamels out of the game again?" MG

"Seriously did Hamels tweak something? Absolutely no reason for him to not pitch the top of the 8th." MG

"Hamels out after only 87 pitches?" limoguy

"Why on earth did Sandberg take Hamels out?" Me

"The only possible explanation I've seen is this --

Kevin Cooney: "DeFratus in .... Hamels did take an awkward fall on last play on 7th" GTown_Dave

"Well, clearly Hamels should be in there. Not sure what is going on with that." Jack

"Kind of pitching decisions I would expect from Cholly except there is no way Cholly pulls Hamels after just 7 IP tonight." MG (ok, I suppose this one is an implied conclusion, but he had already asked if Hamels had tweaked something in an earlier post)

Pulling Cole Hamels due to injury concerns but continuing to use Dom Brown when he had an iffy (as far as they knew before the MRI) Achilles?

YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT!

oh so the bad back is just a joke?

ah well, i give up. Managing this terrible roster makes it pretty impossible to judge Sandberg's tendencies anyway. I'll chalk his braindead lineups and pulling Hamels early as just SSS and try to ignore. 'try' being the key word.

nepp: DOM hit a HR in batting practice, so he's fine, regardless of him limping down the baselines and what those fancy shmancy MRI machines say. Hamels walked vic billmeyer on 4 pitches, so what if he shut down a mlb team over 7 innings afterwards, his fictional back injury requires more precaution than DOM's factual one.

I'm sure bap can go through the thread when the reason given was a bad bullpen session. Some of the posts were hilarious.

Sorry I point out the hypocrisy of some posters around here. It's funny to me.

random stat:

Mike Trout has a .511 OBP since the ASB. The last player to post a +.500 OBP after the ASB was Ryan Howard in 2006.

The sore back wasn't a joke. The reason given was a joke.

And Trout is almost as good a player as Howard...

burb: "Sorry I point out the hypocrisy of some posters around here."

I was one of the main posters to criticize the decision. If you want to point out my hypocrisy then you'd need to go find the post where I criticized Manuel for leaving in his starters too long. Good luck, since that was never a big issue with me.

Instead you are humoring yourself by being a fool, if you think that "BL" is some sort of singular opinion.

Name calling. Standard for someone being called out. Don't engage me then Lore. I'm just humoring myself.

backing out of an accusation after being asked to clarify, standard for someone who falsely calls someone a hypocrite. i guess my humor comes from silencing posters who make false accusations, so we're all just yucking it up together.

LorecorE doesn't think there's hypocrisy on BL.

Too funny.

So far as I can tell, BL consists of two groups - people who generally comment about the team and the players, and people who generally comment about the posters who generally comment about the team and the players. I read BL for the former group, not the tedious attack dogs.

Backing out? I maintain that there are quite a few posters on this site who criticized Manuel for doing the opposite of what they criticized Sandberg for doing last night.

You took the comment personally and now are acting all butthurt and responding with personal attacks. Since you maintain you weren't one of those posters, cool. I'm not going back years on BL to find specific comments from you. But if you deny that what I described didn't happen here, you are deluding yourself.

If you take the sore back/not sore back out of the equation, the point Redburb makes is still valid. Charlie did get criticized for leaving pitchers in too long. And we did question why Sandberg would pull Hamels after 7IP.

One difference is that Cole was dealing. I'm pretty sure that the only times people wanted Charlie to pull a starter before he did were instances where he was starting to falter, putting more guys on base, throwing fewer strikes. Or when his pitch count got really high.

Sandberg did mention that Hamels' velocity was slowing, so it would seem he did that into consideration. But I think we who were watching the game were puzzled since Hamels was at 87 pitches and seemed in perfect control.

Like I said, I don't think it was typical to complain about Charlie leaving a starter in under those conditions.

It's getting a little catty here today. (Maybe I should just observe until things calm down.)

Good win last night (all wins are good wins), with credit going to Colbert for keeping a pathetic lineup in the game against Strasburg.

Credit also to JRoll and Chooch for coming up big when the team needed it.

Also, Papelbon came through with some pretty impressive strikeouts to end the game, even if he did have a little help from the ump on the first one.

They say Papelbon's hip has been bothering him. Is it the same problem Utley had, and is he headed for offseason surgery? is it realy the hip that's caused the dramatic drop in velocity?

I love when posters use the "hypocrite" label to personally attack someone with whom they disagree. It's time for a Beerleaguer English lesson:

"Hypocrisy (hiˈpäkrisē/): the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."

So a "hypocrite" would be, for example, a preacher who rails about morality while carrying on his own extra-marital affair. Or a millionaire politician who calls for the rich to pay more taxes, while he keeps his own money in off-shore accounts which the IRS can't reach. A hypocrite is a very bad thing to be. Calling someone a hypocrite is a personal attack on his/her character.

A person who favors one player/manager over another is not remotely engaging in hypocrisy. At worst, he/she might be engaging in favoritism. But certainly not "hypocrisy." Calling that person a hypocrite is both gratuitously insulting and a butchery of the English language.

It should be interesting final month of the season. The fight for the top 10 draft picks has tightened up significantly. The Phillies currently sit with the 13th worst record but are just 2 games back of the Twins who currently hold the 6th pick. The Padres, Giants, Mariners, Mets and Jays are between us right now.

Sandberg might have to start pulling starters in the 5th and going with Mini Mart, Bernadina and Orr at the top of the lineup every single game if he really wants to get that pick.

bap, good post.

I think people here may be confusing "double standard" and "hypocrisy".

Lore, Trout is incredible. He's even faster live than you anticipate before seeing him.

He had a rather ho-hum night last night. 2 singles, a walk, and 2 stolen bases. Whatever.

Oh btw - had a cool story to relate to the board. The team I help coach won our state title this summer. If anyone was at the game last night, the Phillies do a Salute to Champions for any baseball or softball team who has won an important title in the surrounding area. It was pretty neat to be out on the field for the National Anthem. The kids I coach are in the 15-16 year old range so being out on the field wasn't as much fun as some of the other teams that were there. Seeing the little guys getting so excited to be out on the field and to be that close to MLB players was really neat. The joy and excitement from baseball players was something I hadn't seen in a while.

Mea culpa on the hypocrisy usage. Phrase I was looking for was double standard. Accountant by trade, not an English major.

If you saw the episode of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia that Utley and Howard appeared in, you'll probably chuckle at Utley's reply to Mac's fan letter.

MLB Fan Cave ‏@MLBFanCave 46m
VIDEO: Chase Utley finally responds to Mac's letter from @alwayssunny: http://atmlb.com/17BEFiC

I'm hearing up here that the real reason Ruben is trying to convert Hernandez into a center fielder is so Revere will have only the second-worst outfield arm in the big leagues.

Hard to believe, Harry.

Congrats on the very successful year & all that accompanying excitement, Coach Redburb!

Redburb, great story, and congrats on the championship.

As to the removal of Cole, and the criticism thereof, isn't it possible to leave a starter in too long, and to also take a starter out too early?

Seems that Charlie did the former often, and Ryne might have done the latter yesterday.

GBrettfan: I just saw that, & love every bit of it. Props to MLB.com for that one.

Thanks. We had a good team this year. Rolled right through the state tournament. There wasn't another team that had a chance against us. I've never been part of such a dominant team. It was neat to see.

GBrett, I'm going to modify your note to RedBurb so you can re-use it at the end of the MLB season:


"Congrats on the very unsuccessful year & all that accompanying excrement, GM Amaro!"

Fatti, good points, but how does one judge whether it's too early or too late?

Game results? Whether the SP gets hurt or breaks down?

Sen, it's probably facts and circumstances. But you also get used to a manager's tendencies after a while, so when he keeps doing the same thing, you don't have to consider alternate explanations, and just recognize it as his style. For example, posters on here used to come up with endless reasons for why Charlie didn't use Paps or Madson in a tie game on the road, until Charlie did it so often that it became abundantly clear that it was just his boneheaded style.

We haven't watched Ryne long enough to assign him a style, though.

These issues have already been discussed at length here on Beerleaguer, but I feel the following is a good summation:

Final Nail In Coffin For Lee-To-Seattle Trade Verdict

Still thought it was odd that Sandberg decided to pull Hamels at that moment in the game given the 1-1 score and Hamels due up next inning.

Sandberg said Hamels was losing velocity which really wasn't the case anymore so than normal and Hamels had cruised in the 6th-7th innings.

That last comment was directed at awh. Phone changed it to "sen", whatever the hell that is.

Fatal: It was certainly a nice refresher when I sorted for best OPB in 2nd half MLB history, and Ryan Howard came up as the most recent. Unreal how good he was, we got so spoiled.

Bonds' did it basically every year once he hit +70 HR because he got walked a bazillion times, but after that you end up back in 1957 when Ted Williams did it.

Still a month left to go for Trout to keep his OBP over .500 post ASB, but just yet another insane list he'd join already.

Yo, new Phillipe thread!

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