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Monday, September 23, 2013

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So when will he be diagnosed with Roy Halladay Disease?

It's just sad at this point.

That was one heck of a depressing game. Seeing Doc look like that was beyond sad. And it didn't get better with him out of the game, but seeing our bats flail helplessly and our lowly BP give up runs - while far from fun - can't match the pathos of seeing Doc sweating and struggling for less than one inning.

I wonder if he considers himself the luckiest man on the face of the earth?

Glad that someone with a forum is finally asking the question that's needed to be asked for the past year.

Todd Zolecki ‏@ToddZolecki 1m
Halladay said his season is over. Won't pitch again this year.

Only smart decision that's been made in months for him.

I vote the Phillies change their name to the Philadelphia Malpractice.

Matt Gelb: "‏Roy Halladay admitted to battling an illness related to his diet that was just recently diagnosed based on family history."

Wow...so he's got adult diabetes then? That would explain a lot.

It looks like 2 or 3 bullpen games in the next six. Who is going to blow out their arm next?

No more glutens!!!

"The pitcher admitted to fighting an illness he claimed is related to his diet. He said it was not diagnosed until recently when doctors instructed him to investigate his family's history. Halladay was vague about the condition, saying 'some of it is personal.'"

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20130924_Halladay_exits_with__right_arm_fatigue_.html

They're not the worst medical staff in sports for nothing folks. They seriously don't ask those standard family history questions that EVERY OTHER DOCTOR ON EARTH asks as part of a standard screening questionnaire? Wow...just wow.

Amaro: Soooo hows Roy looking? Ready to get out there and pitch? He's getting paid, he should pitch.

Doctor: I understand he is under contract, but Halladay is not healthy enough to pitch this year, and most likely ever again.

Amaro: Soooo skipping his last few rehab starts and rushing him to the majors might cause damage?

Doctor: Well, he's already shot so you really can't cause any damage - but that is a terrible idea.

Amaro: Sooooo he won't cause damage? OK good talk. thanks!


This was the saddest game of the year and it wasn't because of getting shutout for the 14th time. It was seeing Halladay out on the mound in clear physical discomfort/pain basically the first pitch.

What is it with Halladay the last 2 years? Mysteriously illnesses, lying about injuries, unexplained absences for family emergencies. Maybe he should just try being straightforward

Celiac has more gradual issues. If it is celiac, it can be controlled through diet (absolutely no gluten) and damage to small intestine can be reversed. But Docs problem seems sudden and severe. More like Crohns or diverticulitis.

And the truth begins leaking out.

I'm usually in agreement with TTI, but I'm wondering if he'll continue to mock people now for pointing out what was readily obvious for everyone to see over the past 12+ months.

"What is it with Halladay the last 2 years? Mysteriously illnesses, lying about injuries, unexplained absences for family emergencies. Maybe he should just try being straightforward"

Hahaha

@Scott, Halladay is from the Utley school of public disclosure.

What's so funny Iceman?

You don't think that if he had been honest with himself and the team that his issues could have been diagnosed sooner?

@Scott, Halladay is from the Utley school of public disclosure.

Posted by: Dickie Thong
------------------------------

@Dickie

Being treated by the phillies medical staff who graduated from the school of learning to heal people betterly

Steve- you are being very funny. At least, I'm taking your comments as the joke I assume that they are.

Mets and Jays both lose tonight, so no moving up...err, down, in the standings.

Award winning action/drama movie:

A beerleaguer'er attends a Phillies game and his kid is stung by a bee. The kids throat begins to swell and needs medical attention, but alas, he is stuck at CBP, home of the worst medical staff east of the Mississippi.

He knows his kid's only hope is to get out of the stadium and basically anywhere a random retail pharmacist is, but no one around him understands how terrible the Phillies doctors are.

The kid is grabbed away from him and sent for treatment while they also take the BL'er in for evaluation. He is being held captive and diagnosed with the bubonic plague, scurvy, and a few made up diseases while the phillies medical henchmen hover around his kid having his knee reflexes checked as he slowly suffocates. The movie looks hopeless.

Suddenly he realizes a way out, and explains that he knows of a local creek where they can find leeches to bleed out his kid's illness. The Phillies medical staff rejoices and rush them to this creek - but then the thrilling twist!!

The creek was behind a strip mall which contained both a Supercuts and a CVS. Once there, the Phillies medical staff were distracted by the Phillies scouting department who were holding tryouts at the Supercuts and then BL'er was able to sneak off to the CVS and get his kid a simple over the counter dose of Benadryl to stop the swelling.

Oh yea, and Michael Martinez dies somehow.

The End!

Hello Hello, welcome to Milanj

Normally I realize it is just a game between highly-paid professionals but it made me genuinely sad to see Halladay tonight on the mound.

Love to see him go pitch for a contender next year, pitch adequately enough, and somehow get a WS ring.

Nice to see the Pirates clinch tonight and in dramatic fashion when Schierholtz got tagged out at home for the final out trying to score from 1st on a misplayed single to RF.

A few too many drinks?

I'd love to see that too, MG. But now that the cards are [sort of] on the table with this medical condition, I have a hard time seeing how any contending team will give him a guaranteed spot in their rotation for even a modest contract. His health will be under great scrutiny. And if he were given that chance, I don't see how he can pull it off if he's become this affected by something that is non-physical in nature.

But of course, like Steve said, if he had just been upfront and honest and stuff, he could've been cured in weeks and probably taken the team to the playoffs both last year and this year. So maybe now that everyone knows, he'll be back to normal in no time.

"Mets and Jays both lose tonight, so no moving up ..." OTOH, Brewers win and the Padres are up by three in the seventh. The races are heating up in the last week of the season. This is exciting.

Martin looks like he could be a big factor in next year's bullpen.

All the numbers are there. .639 OPS against as a reliever. .459 OPS in pitches 1-25. Walks are down, Ks are up. The guy is a reliever, and hitters struggle mightily against him the first time through the order.

I know it's common for most teams to have a guy like this come out of the minors and just dominate in the bullpen, but to see it happen to the Phils for the third time in like a decade, it's a welcome site. Hopefully it's not just a SSS aberration and the kid is for real.

Iceman - Good post about Martin but its still only 6 appearances. He has more control issues than Rosenberg/DeFratus but more upside too.

Issue is can the Phils get at least 4 average/above average relievers right now out of the group of Adams/Bastardo/Martin/DeFratus/Diekman/Rosenberg and some of the other holdover scraps including Stutes/Jimenez/etc.

I'm assuming Amaro will make at least 1 secondary FA signing in the bullpen this offseason at minor dollars (less than $1-1.5M) and some minor league deals but don't count on much external help.

Hard to see the bullpen being worse next year but hard to see much improvement either.

Saw the first part of the game with friends at a local bar. The consensus on Halladay amounted to this: "Forget baseball, they need to get that guy to a hospital, he ain't right." If a bunch of semi-inebriated barfly's can see this, why can't the Phillies medical staff?

"Coach says it's ok to bleed from the ears."

In all seriousness, why was Halladay allowed to start the game in his condition? Because "he's getting paid?"

It's sad, not joke time, for Doc. This may have been it for his career. I doubt that we'll ever see him pitch again in a Phillies uniform. Good luck, Doc.

If a bunch of semi-inebriated barfly's can see this, why can't the Phillies medical staff?

They are totally inebriated barflys?

I hope Halladay has a comeback in him. I also hope that the Phillies realize that there are much safer options in the FA market this winter that they should entertain before even thinking about Halladay. Sucks but it's true.

Iceman: Don't mistake my mocking. Celiac, diverticulitis, or anything like that- fine.

The idea that he contracted some mysterious disease on a fishing trip and stuff that went undiagnosed is ridiculous.

There is a huge difference.

I still think Ethan is a year away. However it will not surprise me if they bring him along next year. If so im glad they are letting him get his feet wet now. There is a good chance that Doc knows what his health issues are its just he/they dont want us to know.

Didn't the Phillies medical staff win a "best baseball medical staff" award a few years back ?

Based on that article, family history, fatigue, weight loss, now takings meds...its gotta be diabetes. Celiac wouldn't need medication. Diverticulitis is a much more acute ailment and has no basis in family history, everyone gets the diverticuli at a certain age then it's just a matter of one getting infected.

Also, if he gets it under control, you can put weight back on and regain strength. There's a few MLB players who have it; Morrow, Catfish Hunter, MArk Lowe...

There is a good chance that Doc knows what his health issues are its just he/they dont want us to know.

Posted by: PLM | Tuesday, September 24, 2013 at 08:54 AM


Exactly.

His health concerns are his own; and I feel kinda sad for him. He's had a great career, and I bet he would have liked for it to be longer.

I really wanted to make a snarky comment about draft positioning but Mr. Halladay's travails have kinda knocked it out of me.

I wasn't aware of this until this morning, but anyone really wishing to bury themselves in sadness can buy Doc's 2010 performances on iTunes and watch them over and over and over....

TTI- fair enough, I'm not on board with the West Nile Virus theory either.

And make no mistake- I don't think he owes us an explanation of anything. It's his business. He doesn't have to tell us a damn thing, despite what Steve expects of him.

Of course, the biggest and saddest thing is Doc’s decline. He is a class act and deserves nothing but the best.

But back to the medical staff. I was thinking that a regular working person who had these symptoms would take time from work to schedule an appointment, go to a doctor and get it under control immediately. Yet Doc is surrounded by doctors and medical folks all day long. Their very job is to tend to his health. His job relates directly to his physical condition. Wouldn’t it have been identified and resolved appropriately much earlier?

Ok, Iceman. I'll bite. He doesn't owe the fans an explanation on his health. But he also doesn't need to intentionally mislead either.

He spent most of last year claiming nothing was wrong and that his drop in velocity wa meaningless. Hell, he started off this season basically blaming Kratz for his poor performance.

How does a highly paid medical staff that tests these guys constantly to include massively thorough (in theory at least) physicals every Spring miss something so bloody obvious?

Steve- I know that this doesn't fit with the 'Phillies doctors suck' narrative (which I normally think is 100% accurate), but I think there is almost a 100% chance that they knew what was wrong and were told by Doc to keep it private. I guess there is some small chance that they really are the worst doctors in recorded human history, but I find it very hard to believe that even if Doc was lying to them, they didn't discover symptoms on their own. Most of us saw the symptoms from through a TV monitor.

And if Doc lied to them and they missed it, it's they who are at fault for being grossly incompetent.

There is a chance...and I know this will blow people's minds....that the medical staff, and Halladay's personal physician and any specialists that were employed, were stumped by the disease even as they searched for an answer.

Sometimes you can get 3 or 4 diagnosis until the doctor's hit on what the actual problem is because the symptoms you are showing may be symptomatic of multiple diseases.

Also, if it is something as simple as- diabetes (which I doubt considering how easy that would be to diagnose) it may have only really manifested itself fully in the past couple of months- or the past year- where it was obvious what it was.

It also seems that the doctors (outside of the team medical staff) believed Doc could still play.

***I guess there is some small chance that they really are the worst doctors in recorded human history, but I find it very hard to believe that even if Doc was lying to them, they didn't discover symptoms on their own. Most of us saw the symptoms from through a TV monitor.***

Of course, if Doc's issues were the only issues we've dealt with from this medical staff, that would fit. There have been, of course, other issues.

Also, maybe they simply thought it was related to his previous heat stroke. If the patient was lying to them, that is very possible. Doc might have been lying to himself about it too...like he was about his shoulder issues. Its hard to admit that you can't perform at an elite level anymore.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but didn't Doc take some time off last season for a "family emergency"? Or was that 2011?

I kinda sorta understand where Steve is coming from, I think you could chill out a little bit, Iceman, but whatever.

There clearly has been something wrong with Halladay going back a little while now, more than his shoulder concerns. Bunch of BLers have commented on it, so I'm guessing the Phils at least had some idea something else was going on as well. Halladay needs to share that with them. Not necessarily us, of course, but I really haven't been impressed with the way he's handled himself, regarding his injuries, over the last year or so.

He's a public person, being paid a lot of money to entertain people who pay a lot of money to see him pitch.

Just because he is a public persona, that doesn't mean he needs to disclose any medical ailments he may be suffering from.

After watching a few more episodes of House M.D., I'm thinking it's gotta be Wilson's Disease or Hemochromatosis, maybe even Addison's Disease.

TTI: "There is a chance..."

Yes there is always a chance, but the Phillies medical staff continues to fail. Them, along with Ruben Amaro as GM, have lost their benefit of the doubt to most of us.

Kudos to you for always being open minded. I'm sure you were shocked when Ryan Braun was lying...ya know..since there was a chance he was telling the truth.

I don't know that anyone "deserves" a World Series ring, but assuming such is the case I'm placing Jim Thome ahead of Roy Halladay on the list.

Redburb, I was also trying to remember when Doc took that time away, and couldn't figure out if is was last year or 2011. Not that Doc needs to explain his personal time, but the entire situation was handled with a lot of secrecy.

He'll be back, so don't be writing the obits. He's a favored part of Rube's Zombie Vet brigade.

How's this for an odd stat:

Billy Hamilton: 16 PA, 13 SB, 0 CS

Ridiculous speed.

I agree with Redburb. Many on BL are assuming that because we don't know exactly what's wrong with Doc, that means Doc wasn't honest with the team about his medical condition. It's entirely possible that Doc has been open and honest with the team, but both parties consider his medical condition to be none of the public's business.

May 2012 was when he left the team for family issues

BTW, another fun stat: The Astros became the first team in MLB history to lose at least 106 games three years straight with their bludgeoning by the Rangers last night.

110 loses is still a real possibility for them.

NEPP: Yesterday's Astros game drew a 0.0 rating in Houston. I'm real glad the Phillies brought Ed Wade back. Now we know what we have coming.

If Hamilton plays a full season, he should be good for 400 SBs. Counting the 13 he has this season, that would put him just 12 behind Rollins' career total.

lorecore: Thanks for being a condescending d!ck when it wasn't warranted.

Here is the thing that from reading your simple-minded posts on here I know you can't comprehend because everything is black or white in your world.

There is a huge difference between negligence and ignorance. The Phillies medical staff is seemingly guilty of negligence to many. (I say seemingly because I'm not sure what they are seeing in the medicals that we don't get to see). However, giving the okay when guys are visibly hurt is never a good thing. People want to bash the medical staff over that...go right ahead.

But what apparently Halladay has is different because it could be complete ignorance on their part as to what exactly was causing the problems. For all we know they were doing everything they could to help diagnose the issue. (And for the record- I would imagine Halladay has a personal doctor who handles more of that stuff) The Phillies doctors are going off a myriad of information that we are not privy too.

People continually mention the Chicago game as the minute they knew something was up. That is all well and good but after that night- Halladay came back, missed no time- and gave up 19 runs in 86 innings pitching to a sub 2 ERA. He actually dropped his ERA after he came back from whatever the hell that was and walked 17 batters while striking out 81. It is not like he struggled that year. Then he started 2012 with a 1.95 ERA in April striking out 24 and walking 10. He then had that game in Atlanta where he blew a large lead and his ERA never dropped below 3 again.

This is one big way of saying. We do not know- until Halladay says, or a beat writer finds out- exactly how long they have been working at this problem trying to diagnose it.

But I understand it is much easier to just jump to conclusions without knowledge

What did Ciccotti know and when did he know it?

"Just because he is a public persona, that doesn't mean he needs to disclose any medical ailments he may be suffering from."

No, he doesn't, but I think it's been handled by everyone very poorly.

He's getting paid, he needs to pitch.

Same with KK and his bum shoulder and concussion issues.

Same with Howard and his achilles issues in 2011 and then knee issues this year.

Same with Utley and his knee issues

Same with Lidge and his knee issues in 2009.

Same with Dom and his achilles soreness this year.

etc

etc

Rube wont have no damn sissies on his 25 man.

Billy Hamilton is indeed absolutely ridiculous on the basepaths. A lot of it has to do with his unearthly speed, but I think that undersells him as a player. Baserunning isn't just about being quick: God knows if it was, the baserunning of John Mayberry and Dom Brown would be held in higher esteem. Good baserunning also requires a goodly amount of baseball intelligence, all the more so when you're trying to a steal base and the other team's expecting it. But Hamilton continues to make it look effortless.

Is it too early to start speculating about whether Ricky Henderson's single-season SB record will be endangered by Hamilton? As if Hamilton can put up even a league-average OBP, he should have it broken by the All-Star break next year.

Also: You know who was the fastest guy in MiLB this year not named Billy Hamilton? Our very own Roman Quinn! Of course, with the way the Phils' luck with prospects goes, Quinn will be unearthly fast but will have terrible base-stealing instincts which his speed can't compensate for above Rookie/A-ball.

***Is it too early to start speculating about whether Ricky Henderson's single-season SB record will be endangered by Hamilton? ***

Never happen...he'd never get that type of green light that Rickey got in the early years. In the year he got the record, Rickey had 172 SB attempts (130 SB, 42 CS)

Think about that for a bit...172 attempts. He got on base 249 times that year and attempted to steal 172 times. Basically, every single time he got on base and had an opportunity to steal (ie an open base in front of him), he made an attempt.

For one, Hamilton would never get on base that many times to challenge it. Rickey had a .398 OBP that year BTW.

Another fun stat: Hamilton is already 2nd on the Reds in SB this year...just 7 behind Choo.

With a good week, he might just end up leading his team in SB this year despite having under 30 PA.

tti: "But I understand it is much easier to just jump to conclusions without knowledge"

My entire point was that it's no longer "innocent until proven guilty" with this team and their staff.

If someone gets hurt or becomes unhealthy in any capacity, you have a much higher % chance of being right by assuming the Phillies are at blame.

Down the road when more information comes out, then yes the Phillies might be not be at fault - but whoever takes an early position of 'the phillies screwed up' is just making a good guess.

Statistical Oddities Compared:

- For Cincinnati, Billy Hamilton has 16 PA & 13 SB

- For Philadelphia, Michael Martinez has 37 PA & a line of .162/.162/.162

Yup. That sounds about right.

and sadly, i'm not being sarcastic. Almost every single instance of poor health the last couple years ends up being caused and/or mishandled by this team.

NEPP:
What percentage of Henderson's steals were of 3B, though? As if he tried stealing 2B and then 3B for each every attempted steal, that would've only represented only 86 of his 249 times on base. (Assuming he only attempted to steal after reaching 1B via a single or walk.) The point is taken: Henderson got on base a lot and was recklessly aggressive when he got there.

While MiLB numbers aren't great for translation to MLB, Hamilton did post a .400 OBP between A+/AA last year, and while he regressed rather steeply in AAA this year, he seems to have a good enough approach at the plate to be able to post a .330-.350 OBP; the closer he gets to his breakout year in A+/AA, the better.

Baseball's better off if Hamilton didn't hit that ceiling. And that Choo's walking at the end of this year. Could you imagine the ridiculousness of the top of the Reds' order if they had a .375-.400 OBP Hamilton with Choo and Votto immediately behind him?

LorecorE: The Phillies appear to regard the concept of "Injuries" in the same manner MLB regards the concept of "Errors" -- essentially, they do not exist. Arm falling off? Knee shredded? Head bashed in? No worries! Sit on the bench for 7-10 days, PH occasionally, & everything will work out just fine!

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