Part of

« Phillies starting to get shifty? | Main | Hamels' losing season »

Wednesday, September 25, 2013


Trading for an oft-injured aging corner OF...and using what little youth we have to do it.

What could possibly go wrong?


Free_AEC reminds me of Jamie Harrold's character 'Steven' in the movie "The Score":

Jesus guys..ignore trolls. How hard is that?

2013 OPS+
Jose Bautista: 133
Darin Ruf: 128

It's not as if Bautista is out there for his defense either.

If you really want to have fun with SSS:

2012-2013 OPS+
Jose Bautista: 135
Darin Ruf: 135

Had sex with a dolphin again last night. Who wants to see my weiner?

"Durable Hamels ..."

Great. Here comes the the torn rotator cuff.

Troll, err... Fake NEPP, at least get the spelling of "wiener" correct.

You are the Moronocracy defined.

To be fair, that dolphin came on to me there's that.

~rolls eyes~

The link on the right about "the Sloest Player in Baseball is not about Albert Ross.

Who'da thunk.

Here's the link:

"His record isn't indicative of how he's pitched, especially lately, but still, more was expected from the Phils' $144 million pitcher."

Actually, if you toss out his bad first two starts, he's done this:

203.1 IP, 3.23 ERA, .241/.289/.385 against, 1.116 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 1.90 BB/9, .298 BAbip

Hamels' "problem" all season has been run support from a team who's offense is really not very good.

I am stunned Howard wasn't on the Top 5 this year

I imagine the dolphin must have slipped some rohypnol into the fish course.

It could be worse...he could be Matt Cain with his brilliant 83 ERA+.

True. They've got him locked up in San Fran at $20MM/year for the next 4+1, so it's a pretty valid comp.

Of all of the CSN sites spouting and regurgitating the same non-story "viewpoints," I do have to say that Beerleaguer's is the most alternative. #sarcasm

I don't know what happened the first two starts for Hamels but the second one against Kansas City when I look back on it, seems to be a Royals team that can knock the cover off the ball and I don't think the Phillies expected that and the game got out of hand fast. They turned out to be explosive team. He just couldn't get his ERA down to his usual after that. I still get the impression that most of the fanbase would rather he signed elsewhere because of his contract and years. I think he would be the player that would deserve it but it's what have you done for me lately. But don't blame the player for signing the contract with a team he wanted to play for and felt the loyalty to do so. The team didn't have to offer it and he wasn't going to say "I think you really need hitting and bull pen help so I will take my talents elsewhere".

I really haven't seen many people demonstrating buyer's remorse on Cole. Maybe a few of the louder mouths (fingers?) on CSNPhilly, but those guys will complain about anything and everything.

I think "most of the fanbase" probably accepts that this is a down year for him in the same way that 2009 was. Was it particularly unfortunately timed? Sure. Just like '09. But it's hardly his fault that Halladay, Howard, Utley, Ruiz, Adams, Stutes, Brown and Revere all spent significant time on the DL/suspended.

If Cole bounces back next year like he did in 2010, all will be forgiven. It's not like we were one 2012 Cole Hamels away from winning the pennant.

Hamels' reputation regularly exceeds his actual value. That said, Cole's disappointing '13 season isn't anywhere near the top of the lengthy list of reasons this Phillies team didn't compete.

A couple Zolecki tweets:

Todd Zolecki ‏@ToddZolecki 22m

Ryno said Ryan Howard will join the team in ATL to be around team and work out pregame.
Todd Zolecki ‏@ToddZolecki 21m

Ryno also said Cody Asche is the leader to win 3B job next season. No surprise there. Has impressed coaches and front office.

> I am stunned Howard wasn't on the Top 5 this year

Not a single left-handed batter listed among 'em. Makes me wonder what the Top 5 lefties list looks like...

How can the Phils have buyer's remorse on Hamels after a single year? His year wasn't quite as good as his last 2 but on a team with 29 problems Hamels ain't one.

Buyer's remorse on Hamels, I suspect, is a lot like the claims that Ben Revere is not a MLB-caliber player: They were the result of lackluster Aprils.

Though, to the extent that Hamels can be faulted for anything, it's that the timing of his off month was terrible. The team never could get into a rhythm for the season and Hamels' starts contributed mightily to their off-kilterness. But, these things happen, and next year should be better. On the list of problems the Phils have, I'd say Hamels' April ranks slightly above Ben Revere having the temerity to bounce of a foul ball off his foot and just below the front office not giving Darin Ruf an opportunity to hit his way onto the club in April while Delmon Young was rehabbing.

Also: Did the article by Mr. Seidman seriously link to an article whose thrust is that the Phils should seriously consider a trade package for Jose Bautista built around Jesse Biddle? That's not so much "clever" or "off-the-wall" as "trying to outdo the first Pence trade in vitriol created".

MG~ You're right. Hamels & Lee have done well. After them, the starters were non-existant. Couple that with an ememic offense and there you have it.

Everything we've read lately point to a great need pitching (rightly so), but as I've stated previously many times, the offense needs fixing too. If that doesn't happen, doesn't matter what the pitching looks like.

I think it says a lot about r00b's tenure that we must refer to player trades (Lee, Pence) in terms of "first" & "second".

And there're people who want a Hunter Pence reunion, GTown_Dave.

Though I admit the Pence acquisition trade doesn't get my bile up. It was an exorbitant overpay, to be certain, but if they'd've gone through the arbitration process and extended him as seemed to be the plan I'd have no real complaints. As the Phils' white whale has been a mashing RHB corner OF and I've got more respect for Pence's skillset than most on BL.

The Pence departure trade, though? ...well, I'm adamantly against any serious attempt at acquiring Giancarlo Stanton, precisely because I have zero faith in the front office to actually keep and pay Stanton for the long-haul, as is absolutely required given the amount of talent he'd command. (Assuming the Phils could ever come up with enough to win Stanton in the first place.)

Geez - Juums' posts are so good - and I know this is blasphemy in these parts - however, I wonder if Sophist is "ghosting"?

"Boras Targeting $100MM+ For Shin-Soo Choo"

AKA 'Exhibit A as to why the Phillies won't significantly upgrade their current OF.'

Juums: r00b would overpay for Stanton, get all pissy when that one player is unable to offset the offensive liabilities of an entire team, & proceed to trade him for several players who will never succeed in MLB.

Preacher: So you're opposed to Free_AEC's plan* to purchase the Dodgers, sell the franchise to some Japanese guy & use the profits from that deal to sign McCann & Choo?

*Full disclosure: I have no f*cking clue what that guy is on about. The above represents my best guess.

I think he just wants Ruben to plan a daring daylight heist of Dodger Stadium, a la Ocean's 11.

In the end, he'll walk right out the main gate with Kershaw, Puig, AGon, Greinke and Ryu in a case disguised as a Dodger Dog concessions salesman.

Of all of the CSN sites spouting and regurgitating the same non-story "viewpoints," I do have to say that Beerleaguer's is the most alternative. #sarcasm

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Wednesday, September 25, 2013 at 04:21 PM

Seriously. It's as if Comcast is telling Corey and JR to drive pageviews back to

The only reason I've really been reading BL anymore is for the comments. Obviously this isn't crashburn but the analysis on the headers is terribly boring and very surface-level. Limited analysis of underlying causes, and instead they just seem to look at the results and backfill in specious claims.

Why even mention ERA or W-L records at this point. I doubt more than 10% of the regulars on here finish the post once they devolve into summary level analysis like that.

And then to link to an article that includes quotes like:

Is Ruf better suited to be super-platoon player splitting time between first base and the corner outfield next year? Probably. It’s not like the offense has boomed with Ruf in the lineup. He’s been powerful and patient, but the Phils have hit .236/.300/.363 in the 70 games since he joined the starting lineup.

Corey - I mean really? You think that the rest of the team's performance ought to have any bearing on whether or not to keep an individual hitter in the lineup regularly?

One more: "You can count on Amaro to do his due diligence and exhaust all options to improve the Phillies."


For the most part I'm cutting the writers a break. There's only so much anyone can pen about this cluster of a franchise. Hoping for a marked improvement come the winter meetings & whatever debacle(s) r00b unveils next.

"Boras Targeting $100MM+ For Shin-Soo Choo"

AKA 'Exhibit A as to why the Phillies won't significantly upgrade their current OF.'"
Brown - .826 OPS, 125 OPS+ on the season
Ruf - .834 OPS, 128 OPS+ on the season
Revere - .691 OPS, 92 OPS+ on the season, .784 OPS after May 1st

Reality: Assuming they are all capable of repeating, except for defense, any available FA upgrade would be somewhat marginal.
Here's the list from MLBTR:

Left fielders

Jef Baker (33)
Jason Bay (35)
Mark DeRosa (39) - $750K club option with a $25K buyout
Raul Ibanez (42)
Reed Johnson (37) - $1.6MM club option with a $150K buyout
Austin Kearns (34)
Jason Kubel (32) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Nate McLouth (32)
Mike Morse (32)
David Murphy (32)
Laynce Nix (33)
Juan Pierre (36)
Grady Sizemore (31)
Delmon Young (28)

Center fielders

Rick Ankiel (34)
Coco Crisp (34) - $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Rajai Davis (33)
Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
Curtis Granderson (33)
Franklin Gutierrez (31) - $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Andres Torres (36)
Chris Young (30) - $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Right fielders

Jeff Baker (33)
Carlos Beltran (37)
Marlon Byrd (36)
Shin-Soo Choo (31)
Nelson Cruz (33)
David DeJesus (34) - $6.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Mark DeRosa (39) - $750K club option with a $25K buyout
Jeff Francoeur (30)
Corey Hart (32)
Hunter Pence (31)
Grady Sizemore (31)
The list begs the question of how many guy on it - WHO ARE AFFORDABLE to the Phillies - would really represent an upgrade over RBR.

awh™: I think the answer is fairly obvious. An OF of Ibañez, D. Young & Pence will lead to multiple championships.

I hear Laynce Nix is due, just needs regular AB's.

Not an overly impressive list, but enough contingency options in there that Boras/Choo's asking price is laughable.

"Seriously. It's as if Comcast is telling Corey and JR to drive pageviews back to"
I believe this is completely true. What happened to links to other Phillies blogs and other sites?

It's really sad, in a way

- because it's a tacit admission that the content at CSN isn't competitive with the other stuff that's out there.

I would not be too harsh in criticizing the Astros. They have a long-term plan in place. Jeff Luhnow is a forward-thinking guy. They have embraced a stats-oriented approach to evaluate players by hiring the likes of Kevin Goldstein and Mike Fast from BP. Fast is one of the few sabermetric guys actually measuring hard contract, something I am an advocate for.

GTown, I agree that it gets difficult to come up with "alternative views" on a team that's difficult to watch, and even more candidly, probably actually benefits better in the long run by losing a bunch of these meaningless games. Not easy to watch, and difficult to write about.

That said, what JW was always great at (even way back before these recent "glory days") was going above and beyond the vomit inducing on-the-field product and looking at things holistically, offering up potential solutions, and generating salient discussion on some of the intricacies of the total state of the team.

For a good example, I invite you way back to the depths of 2006 for something like this which at least stimulates some thought.

Where's McCarthy ? Second day off?

Preacher: I won't even attempt to argue that the quality of the site is favorably comparable pre & post JW, because it's not. However, I feel it's important to note that JW was not only an exceptional writer, but perhaps the only writer whose style perfectly fits this blog -- after all, he did create it. The current corporate influence is sad, but I'm trying to embrace the positive aspects which still remain. As I said, I'm hoping for a marked improvement once the lingering stench of this season has begun to subside. Perhaps I'm waiting in vain, but that's an area in which I have practice: I'm a Phillies fan.

Wheels and Sarge calling a meaningless game against the Marlins. Gotta love September baseball!!

How did Cole go from 0-2 to walking the guy, giving up an IF single to Polly, and then the triple? Not ending the year at his finest.

I still don't know how Polanco is still on a MLB roster. Even the Fish. Just looks so overmatched at the plate when I have seen Fish-Phils games this year and is a shell of his defense ability anymore with little range & poor arm.

I'm rapidly becoming a Brian McCann fan. That he managed to aggressively confront Carlos Gomez w/out actually killing him is a feat for which I have much admiration. I probably would've strangled the little sh*t.

I have no idea how McCann didn't get tossed in that game. And I also fail to see why Gomez was ejected. Total d*ck move, I get that, but it's not against an rules.

Wheels and Sarge= unlistenable.

per gameday locations, hamels struck yelich out with 3 perfect pitches on the black.

Seriously, did they say anything about why TMac's out?

Maybe this is part of some insidious plot to make BLers appreciate TMac more.

Glad the season is ending soon because the bill of my cap is getting worn through from all the tipping.

I was hoping Cole would get his 100th tonight, but as of now the outlook isn't positive.

Just said that he was attending to a family matter.

Yes, Tmac is "still tending to a family matter."

Ahhh. Well my congratulations or condolences to him then, depending.

I sought out the play being discussed here. All Gomez did, that I could see, was watch his HR ball for a bit. It's nothing to get all pissy about, especially when your team (i.e., the Braves) is going to the postseason while the other team is dreadful. I can see being irritated, but I don't understand what McCann & Freeman had their knickers in a twist about.

By the way, the Braves are going to the postseason, and they can't get more fans than that at the game?

Almost as many as Baseball-Nirvana, Missouri draws.

In the battle between Gomez and McCann, I was rooting for...the ground to open up and swallow both of them.

Yeah, I obviously don't care about either team (other than to dislike them), but I really couldn't see why Gomez was ejected and McCann stayed in the game. Seemed like an odd decision making process by the umps.

GBrettfan: I believe it was Gomez's yelling & gesturing all of the way around the bases which irritated McCann so.

Preacher: I won't even attempt to argue that the quality of the site is favorably comparable pre & post JW, because it's not. However, I feel it's important to note that JW was not only an exceptional writer, but perhaps the only writer whose style perfectly fits this blog -- after all, he did create it. The current corporate influence is sad, but I'm trying to embrace the positive aspects which still remain. As I said, I'm hoping for a marked improvement once the lingering stench of this season has begun to subside. Perhaps I'm waiting in vain, but that's an area in which I have practice: I'm a Phillies fan.

Posted by: GTown_Dave | Wednesday, September 25, 2013 at 07:33 PM

Fine - I could even live with the writing going downhill if the analysis wasn't equally poor. It's hard to believe - but perhaps not impossible - that some people still quote ERA and W/L record because they don't know any better. But why do it here of all places? Beerleaguer, a historic bastion of curiosity, rational discourse and quality discussion on the internet, has entertained me for hours on end, covering huge numbers of topics well. Fortunately for most of us, the most frequent was the Phils. Sadly, it's dying from the authors' refusal to at least equal to the commentariat.

Another 'tip your cap' night?

I see that Gomez is yelling, and he's crazy to get hot under the collar about it, too, but I think McCann, and for sure Freeman, did the yelling first.

Phillibuster - Is St. Louis not drawing fans for these last games? They normally have great attendance. Tied with Boston for 2nd in baseball, in fact, in 2013 (Braves are #21).

Meh. At this point, every game is a win-win situation. If the Phillies win, I get to see a Phillies win, which is enjoyable for self-evident reasons, even in a season like this.

Given the way the standings are now, if the Phillies lose, the odds of them getting a protected pick greatly increase, which is good for next year.

More in-depth writing would be nice, but I imagine the writers aren't particularly inspired these days either. Also, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Comcast is doing its best to monopolize Phillies discussion as part of a negotiating tactic for the new TV deal.

GBrett: Eh, no, they're drawing pretty well this year (3rd in average attendance, despite 2nd in total, due to scheduling), honestly, but it always looks like - until the playoffs hit - their games are pretty empty.

Not Atlanta empty, but to be fair to the Braves, Turner Field is bigger than most MLB-only stadiums.

Also, ESPN indicates the Braves are 13th in average attendance and 16th in total...

So many teams to root against this year in the NL playoffs.

Only teams I am rooting for are the Reds and the Pirates.

Pirates or bust, though I wouldn't be upset about the Reds. If it came down to it, I could hold my nose and root for the Dodgers just because I like Mattingly. But I hope it doesn't come down to that.

I've been to some Cardinals games in recent summers, due to my father living near St. Louis, and I must grudgingly admit that they pack a good crowd both in terms of numbers and in terms of support.

I guess i was looking at percent rather than average or total when I checked the ESPN rankings. What does that mean - percentage of capacity?

GBrett: I would assume so. ESPN stats are kinda ugly to look at, but I do appreciate that they don't make you go digging around on pages 3 for some really basic ones like on BBR (which I otherwise prefer for the non-Fangraphs-exclusive stats).

I'm rooting for the Pirates first, then the Reds. But in the AL, I can't help but root for the Red Sox - that's how much I like Shane Victorino.

A Ruftastic start to the inning. Now let's get the rally going with...Frandsen. And Galvis.

Welp, maybe we'll get'em in the 8th.

Once again, it's all Freddy.

Nice reverse jinx, Juums. :-)

I love being proven wrong. Go Phils!

That'll teach Stanton to respect Frandsen's speed!

I'm surprised the play at home was that close. Nice slide.

Pizza pizza!

Asche was a mess up there, though. He's a mess for about a week now, going back to 9/18, he's posted the following line: 1-15; 1 2B, 1 RBI, 3 BB, 7 SO in 20 PA. Hopefully this is just a typical fluctuation to balance out his awesome streak from last month and not indicative that the book is out on him.

I was rooting for the Phils as long as Hamels was the pitcher of record. Now that he's not, go Fish.

Holy cow, how can you possibly miss that call?

It's tough to put into words how bad of a call this is. Ryne should get himself run.

How is that call missed?! *sigh*

Can't wait for instant replay, so as to fix egregious calls like that.

That's the 2nd time in a week that Rollins has been hosed by an ump's call. Sunday on the basepaths, now on that tag. He shows impressive restraint not to fly completely off the handle at the umps.

I despise the idea of replay in baseball, but impossibly bad calls like that definitely fuel the fire.

Way to not cover, jackass.

I agree with GTown that such a call is worth being ejected from the game. As was Sundays. Ryne is very calm.

I'll consider that a makeup call.

The umps giveth, the umps taketh away.

Wow. CB Bucknor is not good, though.

I'm fairly certain that's not called an out if Pierre's properly picked off. That was a gimme to make-up for the fact that they were in that situation in the first place.

The only way that the pickoff at 2nd was called "right" if Rollins hadn't secured the ball. I thought on the one replay which was staring right into his glove, the ball moved just a little bit before Rollins squeezed the glove shut.

But C. B. confirmed his pre-eminence in terrible umpiring on that dribbler. My goodness, that call is firing-worthy.

Can anybody in the bullpen throw strikes?

Listen, if they haven't fired C.B. Bucknor by now, I can't possibly imagine how he ever gets fired.

Wow, that was a hilarious way to get payback on the part of Jimenez. He and Chase totally sold that empty-handed tag and CB bought it.

DOM must have slipped Ruggiano a couple $$ earlier at some point. He just flat out sat there while the ball fell to the ground.

Another weakly hit ground ball from Chooch. Ho hum.

It's a pity we don't have a RHB thumper we could bat clean-up. Somebody who might be a bit of a three-outcome guy but still is good to get on base at a .350ish ciip and is good for a .830ish OPS. A send-up to RAJ's incompetence that they can't even find a dime-a-dozen all-bat hitting prospect to run out there in these dog days of September.

Silly Juums, a rookie can't bat cleanup! It's an unwritten rule, dontcha know!

Well, that Ruf guy clearly isn't the answer to our clean-up hitter problem. Did you just see how he had five pitches thrown to them and didn't swing at any of them? He's an Unproductive™ bum, that's what he is.

A pity he didn't turn on the second pitch. He could've planted it in the seats and it would've been deliciously ironic given Chad Qualls' history with the franchise. (And Beerleaguer.)

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb 40s
Beautiful. RT @CrashburnAlley: Close-up of Bucknor's nod:

CB Bucknor = professional troll

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel