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Monday, September 09, 2013

Comments

I remember posting something similar in a game thread about a week ago.

The 700 Level posted an extremely similar article an hour before this was posted here

Rube gets a pass for Raul (unprecedented aged player) and Werth (too pricy). It's the salary dumps of Vic and Pence that denuded the OF, not to mention sapping the team of a lot of its energy.

Ibanez with only 62 rbi's? That's not Production.

If Victorino continued to hit 70% of his ABs left-handed, like he did for six years here, he would still be the same player he was. He's having a great year partially because he's only batting right-handed. I see no evidence that it would've happened here, given that it never occurred to Shane or the team.

Also, it wasn't a "salary dump." Shane was a pending FA. The Phillies had a chance to sign him, like 29 other teams, in the offseason. If they hadn't dealt him, they would have been in the exact same position. If you want to criticize them for failing to sign him to the 3-year, $39 million deal that most people called an overpay by the Red Sox, go for it.

But it's just blatantly wrong to say the trade is the reason he's not here anymore. He was a free agent who signed elsewhere.

Plus, Vic turned down 3yr/$33M deal from Rube prior to the 2012 season, so it's not like they didn't try to resign him.

Jack - Even Rube admitted it was a salary dump, to get under the cap. As a consequence, they made no attempt to extend him last July. It would have cost less to extend him than compete for him on the open market, but neither option was in the budget.

OPS+
Werth: 153
Pence: 132
Ibanez: 131
Vic: 119

Sure glad we got rid of those old geezers.

Ibanez and Werth both left as FAs. Victorino would have left as a FA if we hadn't traded him two months before his contract expired.

We didn't "get rid" of those guys. They signed elsewhere on the open market. In the case of Victorino and Werth, they signed for much more money than anyone actually wanted the Phillies to match.

Pence is the only guy we "got rid of" in the real sense of trading him while we still had him under control for the future.

There is a better example, of course. Nate Schierholtz is a guy we "got rid of," in the sense that we had him under arbitration control, and instead simply let him walk away for nothing. He has a 112 OPS+ this year.

Jack: I don't believe that the Phillies even approached Vic this offseason. Philly was where he reportedly wanted to resign, but he never even got the chance to give them a discount.

Raul Ibanez, Shane Victorino, Jayson Werth, Nate Shierholtz, Hunter Pence or Michael Cuddyer. Just think how much better our outfield picture would have been if they had even one of these guys on the team this year. It all speaks of Amaro's complete ineptitude.

It's good to point out the numbers these guys have but it also needs to be mentioned guys like Ibanez, Pence, and to a lesser extent Vic- were slammed here on the board by many.

he never even got the chance to give them a discount

This is a stupendously stupid line of thought

Yeah, but we kept Rollins and Howard who have been KILLING the ball.


TTI: Exactly right. Because dumping old expensive vets always leads to better teams.

dhunter: Thanks. Maybe I should have worded it "r00b never got the chance to seek a discount," but any moron would have understood what I meant.

*"r00b never sought"--he certainly had the chance to.

clout, don'tcha know that's always the case?

That's why the Moronocracy keeps clammering for the Phillies to trade Rollins (MG and I reviewed his value a couple of threads ago), dump Mayberry, put Howard out to pasture, and euthanize Chooch, despite the fact that in only one case (Ruf can play 1B) is there a suitable MLB ready backup for any of them. (And what I mean by a suitable "backup" for Mayberry, who's a backup, is that he's absolutely fine as a backup OF/1B, and better than a lot of guys on other teams who are in the same role(s).

You guys are practicing revisionist history:

When Vic was still on the Phils he wanted a 5-year extension. The Phillies were willing to give him 3 years, and he rejected that offer and said he'd chance free agency.

As it turns out the Phillies were correct about his perceived value, at least where the length of contract is concerned.

What he did do in FA, however, was top the dollar value that they reportedly offered him.

But, he wanted 5-years and was going to test the market if he didn't get it. In short, because of that gap he was "un-extendable" why he was still on the team.

They did do the right thing in trading him, because they may have gotten back a guy who can be a useful piece in the bullpen.

"...because of that gap he was "un-extendable" WHEN he was still on the team."

2013 Mayberry: 87 wRC+, -0.3 fWAR, -13.4 UZR/150

Where would Rube ever be able to find a better replacement?

Dickie, go do some homework as to what other teams are running out there as backup OF and get back to me.

I posted last week about other backup OF out there, and used Cincy as a reference.

No offense, but that's a st00pid post because it lacks any reference or point of comparison to other players.

In short, there are a sh8tload of guys populating MLB rosters as backup OF who aren't as good as Mayberry. Dump him and he'll have the last laugh, because he'll have a job next season, and you'll be bitching and posting about the next guy.

We've heard that tune before.
I'm not defending him, but they released Bruntlett , and people here have been bitching about the IF backups ever since.

You see, the Moronocracy forgets why guys are backups in the first place.

TTI is right about Raul. The guy was loathed by many on here. Why? Simply his contract.

BedBeard, because he was injured, Raul got ripped (or at least his contract did) by a lot of guys.

And at his age he was an injury risk, which is why people jumped on the contract the minute they signed him.

As it was, the people who kept focusing on the length of the contract were correct, but many confused the player with the contract, and that was wrong.

Raul has been a class act wherever he's played, and was so in Philadelphia.

r00b should be fired based upon his colossal ineptitude w/ regard to the corner OF spots alone. Since 29 July '11:


- Trades Singleton, Cosart, Zeid & Santana to Houston for Pence. (Jul. '11)

- Trades Pence for Joseph & Rosin. Has to be forced to take Schierholtz as part of the deal. (Jul. '12)

- Makes no attempt to re-sign Schierholtz in order to make room for Dom Brown. (Nov. '12)

- Moves Dom Brown to LF in order to make room for Delmon Young. ('13 Offseason)

- Completely ignores Ruf's SSS OF play in MLB in '12, decides Ruf isn't ready to play OF in MLB based upon even smaller '13 Spring Training sample. ('13 Offseason)

- RF manned by various players, mostly Mayberry & Nix, until Delmon Young is "ready". (Apr. '13)

- Delmon Young appears in 64 games in RF, is released. (May - Aug. '13)

- Ruf, having been recalled to play 1B in Howard's absence, now plays mostly OF. Currently has a career MLB OF Fld % of 1.000 (Aug. '13 - Current)


There's no plan in any of this. It's a series of reactionary moves based upon internal payroll restrictions, & a continually abysmal failure to identify talent ... or even competence.

Raúl made $11.5 million per season -- that's a total of $23 million -- in his final two seasons w/ the Phillies. He has made $3.85 million total in the two seasons since. I think Ibañez would be remembered more fondly if the esteemed GM of the Phillies hadn't overpaid so egregiously.

Yeah, just like Ben Francisco had the last laugh. Mayberry will latch on to some other team and get DFA'd before the end of the season like so many others of his ilk. And, I was a big supporter of giving Mayberry a chance, but after 1200 PA, I've seen enough. Pass.

As we're on the topic of outfield revisionist history, riddle me this:
Imagine that Amaro tenders Nate Schierholtz and, through either negotiation or arbitration, he ends up making $2.2MM for the season. Now imagine that he came out and was the same career .720 OPS guy he was coming into this season.

Would it not be a Known Fact™ that RAJ was a ravening incompetent for wasting $2.2MM of scarce resources on a clone of Laynce Nix?

The point is that unexpectedly good seasons do happen. That they do does not really undermine the rationale for signing or not signing someone, unless the good season was predictable (and thus, really, not unexpected). Ibanez's and Werth's certainly were not, Vic's probably wasn't due to the freak injury Jack alluded to that stopped Vic's switch-hitting, and Schierholtz's also wasn't unless you were confident that a career bench guy would find his stride if given more playing time and a more favorable platoon split.

Really, the only one that got away was Hunter Pence, and he's usually omitted from these trips down Memory Lane. Given how much rage and animus the trade that brought him here has generated, there's precious little of either by comparison for RAJ's selling for pennies on the dollar in the team's investment in Pence.

GTown, good post, but it's worse than that:


- Failed to call up Ruf when it was clear Howard was having knee problems early in the season.

- mini mart

- Nix

- mini mart

- E. Carrera

- mini mart

"And, I was a big supporter of giving Mayberry a chance, but after 1200 PA, I've seen enough. Pass."


1208 pa, .246 .305 .432 .737, 98 OPS+


Dickie, more st00pidity?

Again, go COMPARE him to other backups and get back to me if you think he's so easily replaceable.

Do some homework or go call WIP.

Dickie, where did I get these numbers?:

442 PA, .273 .321 .524, 24 HR, 62 RBI.

Oh, Dickie, if you think Mayberry is so easily replaceable please identify the players with whom you'd replace him.

OMG. -0.3 fWAR is the definition of easily replaceable.

Thoughts on bringing Hunter Pence back?

CF-Revere
LF-Brown
RF-Pence
4OF-Ruf
5OF-Cesar

Dickie, with WHO? Name the guys.

awh: The biggest problem with Dickie Thong's post is that it utterly ignores context. It is a well established fact that Mayberry cannot hit RHP. Yet he is used constantly vs. RHP, which is how you get the dreadful WAR. If he were used as he should be: Against LHP only or as a PR or defensive replacement in LF and RF, his WAR would be considerably higher.

By-the-by, the much reviled Pence has put up a line of .287/.339/.807 w/ a 132 OPS+, & has played in every single one of San Francisco's games this season.

CS: OPS+

Pence 132
Ruf 132
Brown 126
Cesar 87
Revere 92

Thoughts on bringing Hunter Pence back?

"OMG. -0.3 fWAR is the definition of easily replaceable."


Dickie, so then you don't think Mayberry should be traded straight up for Matt Kemp, who has a -0.8 fWAR for the season?


Keep f0cusing 0n 0ne year, and y0u'll s00n qualify to join r00b and the FOols.

clout, exactly. I posted his slash line against LHP, which is very good for someone who ought to be limited to backup duty.


Dickie is beyond not being able to see the forest for the trees. He couldn't get out of the weeds.

"Thoughts on bringing Hunter Pence back?"

The Phillies can't afford it, can they?

First off, there is no need for ad-hominem attacks.

Your numbers are skewed by Mayberry's early years, as shown below. He's had a significant drop off the past 2 years, certainly not worthy of a 2-3x raise.

2009-2011: .265/.328/.518, .846 OPS, 126 OPS+
2012-2013: .237/.296/.394, .690 OPS, 86 OPS+

And, his defense has been downright putrid.

> Dickie, with WHO? Name the guys.

Guys can be found every year through waiver claims, under-the-radar trades, ST invites, etc. Case in point, the Braves picked up Jordan Schaefer this year and he is doing very well for them (108 wRC+, 1.4 fWAR). I'm sure I could find others, but engaging in an argument that advocates giving $1-1.5M to a replacement level player is pointless.

Mayberry

2009: 60 PA, 63% against LHP
2010: 13 PA, 46% against LHP
2011: 296 PA, 40% against LHP
2012: 479 PA, 38% against LHP
2013: 360 PA, 27% against LHP

> Dickie, so then you don't think Mayberry should be traded
> straight up for Matt Kemp, who has a -0.8 fWAR for the season?

Yeah, Mayberry is just having an injury riddled off-year.

> clout, exactly. I posted his slash line against LHP,
> which is very good for someone who ought to be limited to backup duty.

It would take a complete house cleaning of the front office and coaching staff for the Phillies to start playing platoon splits. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

Yeah. Let's relive the horrible Hunter Pence experience, only this time let's overpay him for his decline years.

awh keeps asking who people would replace Mayberry with. I already told him exactly who I'd replace him with. But if you gave me the list of FA 4th OF available in 2014, without looking I bet I'd take 90-95% of them over Mayberry. HE IS EASILY REPLACEABLE. It's not even really debatable anymore.

"If he were used as he should be: Against LHP only or as a PR or defensive replacement in LF and RF, his WAR would be considerably higher."

I'm not as down on Mayberry as some, but I think you just unwittingly made Dickie's argument for him. You're basically saying that, if you eliminate the many things he sucks at, Mayberry is a perfectly good bench player. But while there's some value to killing LHP (who comprise about 1/3 of all pitchers), there's a lot more value to killing RHP (who comprise 2/3 of all pitchers). And while there's some marginal degree of value in playing LF or RF, he'd have a lot more value if he could play a competent CF.

Basically, Mayberry's "plus" skills happen to be in some of the least valuable areas of the game. And one of those skills (killing LHP) is already duplicated on our roster by a utility infielder who will surely be back next year. So what exactly is his purpose on the 2014 Phillies?

So what exactly is [Mayberry's] purpose on the 2014 Phillies?

From the FO point of view, Mayberry is cheap, & "Versatile™". We'll be stuck w/ him forever.

- "Case in point, the Braves picked up Jordan Schaefer this year and he is doing very well for them (108 wRC+, 1.4 fWAR)"?


Another silly post devoid of context. Seriously.

How do you know you won't get the Jordan Shaefer that posted the .221/.305/.301 slash line from 2009 - 2012?

You don't. The Braves just got lucky. Very lucky.

Wanna bet on Shafer's line next season?

On August 8th (the day Delmon Young played his last game as a Phillie)...

John Mayberry Jr. - .731 OPS
Delmon Young - .699 OPS

Clearly the word came from above that JMJ needed to get his OPS down quick to make the Delmon Young pickup not look so bad.

Mayberry obliged... .141/.228/.282/.510 in 79 PA since then.

What's the point of this post?

Jayson Werth, at roughly $17M per annum, has been a below average signing for the Nats. His 2011 was a complete disaster (.718 OPS). 2012 yielded decent numbers in half a season, but obviously well below what you would hope a $17M outfielder would put up. 2013 is the first season he's outstripped his dollar value.

In a year or two, he'll be declining, and the last two season will be as bad as the first.

What's the point in pointing out anything Ibanez does? Who on earth would have wanted him as anything more than a bench bat after 2011? This is the National League.

If Amaro had signed Victorino for 3YR/$39M, I would not have been surprised to learn that certain posters here had put a contract out on his life.

So who do you want in RF next year? Brown at less than $1M, or Werth/Pence at $15M+? Easy choice.

Who do you want in LF? Cuddyer and his Mile High stats for $11M+, or Darin Ruf for peanuts? Frighteningly easy choice.

Relax.

So who do you want in RF next year? Brown at less than $1M, or Werth/Pence at $15M+? Easy choice.

I don't advocate trying to reacquire Pence (I wouldn't have traded him away to begin with), but unless/until Brown shows he can stay on the field, both LF & the 4th OF position are going to remain an issue.

Trading away Pence last year in essentially a straight salary dump completed what I call the 'Circle of Stupidity' for Amaro and was the best example through a series of transitions where he has no strategic plan in place.

MG: The most amazing aspect of the Circle of Stupidity is that r00b had a capable replacement for Pence literally forced upon him by San Francisco, only to summarily dump that guy, & move Dom's excellent arm to LF in order to clear RF for ... Delmon Young? His ignorance defies belief.

If Brown is out for a long period of time next season:

Utley to LF
Revere in CF
Ruf in RF
Hernandez at 2B

Not ideal, but not horrible.

Or, you know, sign another OF

Or Hernandez in CF, Revere in RF, Ruf in LF

Versatility™

There's no defending Delmon Young.

Wait, why is Dom Brown hurt next year already, again?

They call him Mr. Glass

I have advocated dumping Mayberry. But I also said- I would sign Corey Hart, move Ruf to the Mayberry role (1B/Corner OF), and then maybe you either sign a CF as a 5th guy or you use Hernandez in that swing role.

I'm not saying dump Mayberry in a vacuum, despite my intense hatred of him.

"I have advocated dumping Mayberry. But I also said- I would sign Corey Hart, move Ruf to the Mayberry role (1B/Corner OF), and then maybe you either sign a CF as a 5th guy or you use Hernandez in that swing role."

Exactly. The replacement for Mayberry is already on the roster. It's Ruf.

***They call him Mr. Glass***

some text

. .

One picture translates to a thousand pieces of glass.

Foot, ankle, knee, hip, groin, ribs: hand, wrist, elbow, shoulder, collar bone: concussion.

If ever we need proof of the genius of BLers, it's that they absolutely pegged the right moves with Vic, Werth, and especially Ibanez.

I remember MG, in particular, repeating over and over how letting Ibanez go was a huuuuuuuge mistake, because he clearly had years of quality play left in him.

If there's one thing that shows how each and every BLer could to a better job than RAJ, it's how they lined up one after the other to voice strong opposition to letting Vic, Werth, and especially Ibanez get away.

I , for one, wanted Raul to stay . And for a very sound reason.
Rauuuuul was my wife's favorite player.
Past the Mike Schmidt and Pat Burrell eras anyway.

The only takeaway for me from the terrible header was the sports hernia = 16 HRs.

No one expected Raul, a notoriously streaky hitter, to 'flirt with 50', even during his hot start.

If only Pence hadn't come down with that hernia in '11, those 16 extra homers would have really come in handy in the playoffs.

Phils absolutely did do the right thing by letting Ibanez go after the '11 season. He was 39 freaking years old.

Do people forget how overmatched Ibanez was during the '11 NLCS or the later half of '11? How he had become a pure guess hitter who could hit the ball out of the park if he guessed right? How horrible he was defensively with less range than arguably Burrell and a complete liability on the basepaths?

Ibanez had a poor '11 here and is a classic example if look past his 'production' (20 HRs and 84 RBIs) you realize how he hurt the team overall because of his low OBP, horrendous defense, and liability on the basepaths. D. Young got killed here this year for those attribute but Ibanez was pretty similar to him in '11.

Amaro has made a ton of mistakes here and moves you can easily second guess. Not resigning Ibanez or countering and signing Werth to that ridiculous deal aren't moves that should be criticized in the least.

Pierre because of his overall all around game was a better player than Ibanez too.

I meant last year.

Didnt want Raul back. Wanted to keep Shane. Sheirholtz was a head scratcher. Though i remember most of the Bl'ers werent to fond of him "Shitholtz" comes to mind. Never was too impressed with Mayberry. Thought of him as a 4th/5th OF PH/PR type nothing more. Not that i hate him he is what he is. Revere, Shane, Brown would of made a decent OF. Of course if we retained Shane we probably wouldnt have went after Revere. I did like Pence and his energy. Mayberry is expendable at this point but i think Raj will retain him or trade him for yet another C level arm.

Ibanez must be a really good guesser this year then.

"Overall all-around game."

A manager can make or break guys like
Ibanez and mayberry by their use.

Who cares? They're not here and they're doing well. So what? All had circumstances -- right, wrong or indifferent -- that forced them out. Some were contract issues, not performance issues. Ibanez was old and coming off arguably his worst season as a pro. Pence is the one that is the most intriguing, but I still don't completely fault the Phils. Schierholtz? Come on, who saw him having this kind of year? (Rhetorical. Please don't start pulling posts from July 2012 to prove how smart you are.)

Zzzzz... Off-days are really boring around here nowadays.

A manager can make or break guys like Ibanez and mayberry by their use.

Post of the day!

Charlie was horrible with Raul in 2011. HORRIBLE.

Sandberg is horrible with Mayberry, but at least there's some logic to it: They're out of the hunt, he needs to see what he has with Mayberry, so he's getting him a bunch of ABs.

Pence was a fairly obvious mistake even at the time. We didn't need him and he was a luxury for a team that was 100% going to the playoffs with or without him. That Bourn was traded right afterward for a far lesser price was just the cherry on the top of that sh!t sandwich...especially given that having a true leadoff man and SB threat probably would have helped us more (at the lesser opportunity cost) than Pence did in RF anyway. He also would have given us GG defense at 2 OF positions as we could have slid Vic back over to RF and had GGers in CF and RF.

Oh well.

Ibanez is ideally used on an AL club where he can be strictly platooned to never see LHP and only play the field on a spot-start basis. Both the Yankees and Mariners have been able to do that to a certain extent and get good value out of him as a result. Also, he gets far less wear and tear on his body in such a situation so he plays better overall. The Mariners would be getting more value out of him if they could DH him more...right now, they've only DHed him 20% of the time. He's even hitting LHP fairly well for them (far, far better than Howard does for us though) in 131 PA

Ibanez - Mayberry platoon would probably be pretty successful at the corner OF spots. But yes lots of this is pointless. There were legitimate reasons for getting rid of all these guys, except Nate S. The phillies just managed somehow to keep every expensive vet that is declining over every expensive vet that actually is still good if used properly haha.

Rube's problem is that he's basically never actually guessed right on any move whatsoever. So either he's just got really, really bad luck or he's completely incompetent at player evaluation. After a while, more and more it points to the latter.

Its fun to follow phormer phillies, but lets not pretend that anyone of them who leaves "should" have been kept just because they have a good year later on.

I'll watch a former player have a good year 100 times before I want to see a current player play poorly.

So what, they're gone! I'm over it and not going to dwell on it no matter how or why they're not here.
All I know is that if they were? Yea we'd be better. But also a lot older, and we'd have to totally rebuild. That could take a considerable amount of time. Now I'm not defending Roob the boob here, but I would rather see them get younger and weed these guys in slow and have a couple of down years.
We could have possibly won another championship. But then again we might not have. You never know. What I do know is that if we didn't, there would be a lot of people complaining about the fact that we aren't winning cause the team is old, and where are all our younger prospects.

Raol, Pence, Werth and Victorino had another thing in common besides being outfielders they were exciting to watch.
And they were all fan favorites who werent replaced. Mayberry and Ben Vereen Revere, Delmon Young were all cheap but lackluster replacements.

awh: one thing is being wrong and unwilling to change your mind about something, but it's another kind of weirdness to actually bring up the topic so often and willingly.

Mayberry sucks, and can be replaced by basically anyone in the league, hence the term "replacement level". Barely being an OK corner OF defender and hitting LHP for power that account for only ~25% of the league does not make a player hard to replace.

"The phillies just managed somehow to keep every expensive vet that is declining over every expensive vet that actually is still good if used properly haha."


Well, they viewed Rollins, Howard and Utley as the 'core' of the success, and made the decision to keep them. Also, they are all fairly popular with the fan base.

It may just be that those 3 guys - well, Utley and Rollins anyway, need a few more days off at their ages than they are used to having.

Howard is a different case. He has obviously become much less effective against LHP, and, anecdotally, it seems, that's all he sees late in games and in key situations. He can still hurt teams with his power, but the book on him is to neutralize him with LHP - any kind, it can be a slop thrower.

Can he pick it up against LHP? Well, he's had a couple of years to figure it out, and I don't see signs that he has.
.
.
Percent of Howard's PA vs. LHP, Howard's OPS and OPS+, (OPS vs. LHP):

2006: 31.96%, 1.084, 167 (.923)
2007: 37.96%, .976, 144 (.826)
2008: 37.85%, .881, 125 (.746)
2009: 35.84%, .931, 141 (.653)
2010: 34.83%, .859, 127 (.826)
2011: 28.73%, .835, 126 (.634)

I left off 2012 and 2013 as "injury riddled" years.

At first glance, 2010 vs. LHP looks to be an aberration. But it also appears that as he's declined against LHP, much of that may be due to the LHP adjusting and pitching him differently. Also, he looks to have declined a bit against RHP.

Have at it.

Howard will be 34 next year and coming off two injury plagued seasons where he averaged 76 games a year. He's basically a sunk cost at this point. If they can get anything at all for him in the final 3 years of his contract, they will be lucky.

Only $85 million to go on that deal.

lorecore, I accept that argument but WHO do you think is going to be available that will make it so easy.

No one has answered that question yet.

I get obfuscation and "well it's just easy". Name names of guys that WILL be available.

This debate rages constantly here, and not just about Mayberry. Sure, there are guys on other teams that have outperformed Mayberry. That's a fact.

Dickie used Schaefer as an example, but it was a horrible one. As I pointed out, the Braves got lucky this season, and if Schafer reverts to what he did the prior four years he'll be "more easily replaceable" than Mayberry.

But who is going to be AVAILABLE?

You see, lore, it's the AVAILABLE part that has people flummoxed, because the Phillies do not operate in a vaccum, and if a superior player does hit the open market, there is usually competition for him because other teams want him too.

That alone, by definition, makes it HARDER than "easily replaceable", and that is the crux of my argument: I've never said Mayberry was anything special. I just don't think he's as "easily replaceable" as you and the rest of us armchair GM's seem to think.

"We could have possibly won another championship. But then again we might not have. You never know."


Ryne, Actually, we do know.

r00b went "all-in" and didn't win another.

The problem is the last two years many of the complimentary players he's brought in have been awful (Nix, Wiggy, etc.)

And he's also placed possibly the worst player in MLB on the roster.

NEPP: "Pence was a fairly obvious mistake even at the time. We didn't need him and he was a luxury for a team that was 100% going to the playoffs with or without him."

Exactly right. He was the opposite of the Abreu trade in 2006: The GM thought the team couldn't make the playoffs without him. That was wrong.

Ryne: "We could have possibly won another championship."

True and exactly the reason we're having this discussion.

"Sandberg is horrible with Mayberry, but at least there's some logic to it: They're out of the hunt, he needs to see what he has with Mayberry, so he's getting him a bunch of ABs."

Yeah. Exactly. Mayberry is a huge unknown at this point.

worst player in MLB history on the roster...get it right.

Mini Mart is one of the worst players in baseball in the last 50 years. Yet Rube thinks he's versatile and actually still goes out of his way to defend using him.

"lorecore, I accept that argument but WHO do you think is going to be available that will make it so easy.
No one has answered that question yet."

This is just patently false. Two people in this thread said who they would replace Mayberry with. I told you less than a week ago what I would do. Stop saying no one is answering your question.

" Yet Rube thinks he's versatile and actually still goes out of his way to defend using him."

This alone ought to cause someone to question r00b and the FOols.

awh: Darin Ruf.

***Exactly right. He was the opposite of the Abreu trade in 2006: The GM thought the team couldn't make the playoffs without him. That was wrong.***

Yup, 100% correct.

quick look at 2014 FA OFs:

Rajai Davis
Andres Torres
Chris Young
Marlon Byrd
Jason Bay
Reed Johnson
Nate McLouth

And don't give me crap about how these players can't replace Mayberry's exact abilities. They are overall better players, which is the point.


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