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Monday, August 05, 2013

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***I love that ARod, who is usually described as being something of a mimbo, is portrayed as kingpin here.***

some text

"Prostitution, loansharking, numbers...the kid liked to wet his beak in a little bit of everything."

Hopefully NEPP will post a photo with a movie or TV reference in every thread from here on out. Love 'em.

You can't do anything but laugh at this point.

I want some manmeat in my keister.

fake clout sucks exponentially more than real clout

yes, I love to suck..he he

I can see it now. A top 10 pick is in our future. Then we can sign a free agent and still keep our pick. Woo Hoo!

Bastardo's season = over

Paps has to be thinking, "Why the hell didn't Rube trade me?"

The space in the bullpen between when the starter fails and gets yanked and the 9th inning is now manned by total crap.

Your 2013 Philadelphia Phillies

Pulpit rock

Hey Antonio Bastardo, remember when we competed for a job in 2011. Thx alot. #ahole

— Dan Meyer (@Dmy53) August 5, 2013

Is Ryan Braun Hispanic? He seems out-of-place with the other cheaters.

Just relieved that Mini Mart, Nix and McDonald weren't caught up in this mess. Can't lose those key cogs for the stretch run.

At least Bastardo won't get hurt in meaningless games down the stretch and he can rest up for 2014.

My repost from previous thread:

So, on to another fascinating event in the ongoing saga of "As the Phools Turn": the Latino troika of Galvis/Ruiz...and now Bastardo has been suspended 50 games each.

The first two came back more impotent than before their imposed withdrawal/detox. Does anyone have a better prognosis than a diminished, "reformed" Bastardo being underwhelming in his role as set-up man?

Does anyone not surmise that they were in cahoots?

Can this team fall any farther from grace?

Please, can they continue to tank the season, so Monty and his cohorts may consider at least jettisoning RAJ & Co. Let the whole lot rot someplace else. Of course, it will never happen, but at least Amaro and Manuel must go.

Is any/everyone up for shooting for the first pick in next year's draft?

Finally, it kills me to see again and again, particularly with the Braves how they retool and reload year after year with COLLEGE-experienced players. Last night's starter is a prime example. Just two years out of college, he is polished, poised, has a great pick-off move (Mayberry's jock is still floating in the air at CBP), and can even handle a bat.

In juxtaposition, the uncreative/fixed-in-the-same paradigm, fossilic FO in Philly continues to draft high school babies with no real top-flight competitive experience hoping that in five (long) years they will be primed for prime time. How is that working for you, RAJ? (See Hewitt).

And on and on...ad nauseum.

***The space in the bullpen between when the starter fails and gets yanked and the 9th inning is now manned by total crap.***

So Pap fits right in then?

I was just looking at Bastardo's numbers btw 2009-present. It isn't discernable when he was using, and when he wasn't His last two and half seasons makes him a ~.8-1 WAR pitcher. No egregious jumps in velocity. I wonder what PED he was specifically using. Was it more in line with HGH (for recovery purposes)?

"Paps has to be thinking, "Why the hell didn't Rube trade me?"


Because he was total crap too and nobody wanted him and his ridiculous contract?

Your 2013 Phillies:


noname - Bastardo's FIP and xFIP have been pretty consistent over the last few years, as relievers go. His subpar ERA in 2010 and 2012 was the largely the result of single-year fluctuations in BAbip (2010: .375) and HR/9 (2012: 12.5% vs. 8.1% career).

"I was just looking at Bastardo's numbers btw 2009-present. It isn't discernable when he was using, and when he wasn't His last two and half seasons makes him a ~.8-1 WAR pitcher. No egregious jumps in velocity. I wonder what PED he was specifically using. Was it more in line with HGH (for recovery purposes)?"

Maybe Bastardo has been using the entire time.

fake clout sucks exponentially more than real clout

Hard to believe, isn't it? :)

Sil, Awesome visual. Very funny! Do we have a photo of Rube wearing an engineer's hat?

so... um... more Diekman i guess...

Phools and tools is what has comprised this season.

Did only Hispanics get drug tested or something?

So who's the 8th inning guy now? DeFratus I suppose? Who takes Cheating Bastard's (see, I can say that now, hehe) roster spot? J.C. Ramirez returns?

Oh wait, it doesn't matter.

Yes! More Jake!

Maybe it's not actually possible to separate performance when using and performance when not using?

I know it's mind-blowing to some, but the effects may be more subtle and nuanced than people generally believe. Especially when you're talking about relief pitching, which is already susceptibly to volatility due to incredibly small samples of performance.

The idea that a guy would be Craig Kimbrel when using and Chad Durbin when not using is just silly. There are likely factors much more important then PED usage that affects a reliever's stat line.

Maybe Cesar Jimenez finally gets a call-up. He's had a very solid year at LV (3.12 ERA in 66.1 IP, 61 H, 26 BB, 64 K). Might as well see if he can get it done at the big-league level.

Nah, who am I kidding - let's just let him go to Pittsburgh and become an All-Star next year.

Ed Wade: "Did only Hispanics get drug tested or something?"

These suspensions actually have nothing to do with drug testing. None of these players (except Melky and Grandal) have tested positive. There was simply evidence that they had been involved with this Biogensis clinic, and so Selig suspended them.

I think it makes sense that this one clinic would have (mostly) one subset of players as customers. The subset happened to be Hispanic (excepting Braun). Let's not make this more than it is.

And MaineRob, Chooch tested positive for Adderall.(So did Kevin Frandsen -- is he a secret Hispanic?) I think it's fair to say Biogenesis was handing out much more serious stuff than greenies. Come to think of it, your post lumping Chooch together with Galvis and Bastardo as "the Latino troika" is, well...

Also, people are most tempted to cheat when they feel themselves slipping in some way, and are afraid of the consequences.

How many good students cheat in college?

Biogenisis is in Miami. Lots of Hispanic guys make their home there (conjecture). Illegal activity is word of mouth driven, so Hispanics talk to Hispanics (conjecture).

This is why I love BL. With some annoyingly glaring exceptions (no names this time, Ja..), the well-informed, sardonic, (dis)passionate nature of its inhabitants just bubbles up to the surface.

Musing: if only we could run the show...

At the risk of over-generalization, it's also largely true that Hispanic players come from poor countries, and are relying on baseball for work and residence in the United States.

I mean, put yourself in this situation. If you make and stay on a major-league roster (or even a minor-league roster), you receive pay and benefits and a work visa to live in the United States. Stay long enough, and you can receive benefits through the union for life and the chance at U.S. citizenship. Fail to stay on a roster, and you go home.

In that situation, there's very few people who wouldn't be tempted to take some risks. Those are pretty big and important risk/reward calcultions we're talking about.

I think that Sil stumbled upon the motto for the 2013 Phillies:

"Oh wait, it doesn't matter."

Jack and all,

Be careful lest you get accused of being racist or a bigot, as I was a couple of seasons back for pointing out the connection between the DR and players falsifying their ages.

I wonder how Bastardo's arbitration hearing will go this offseason. He's making $1.4M this year and would have been in line for a substantial raise.

Jack, to expand on your point, if you're a young man growing up in a barrio in a Latino country, and you see baseball as a potential ticket out because even minor leaguers make exponentially more than the average person in your country, the temptation is probably pretty extreme.

With the MLB minimum at about 500K... that's probably more than the average person in the DR makes in an entire lifetime.

awh: Yeah, well, there's a difference. I'm not insiunating that any random Dominican is likely to have cheated.

I'm explaining why certain players who are Hispanic might have completely rational and (I would argue) even morally justifiable reasons for taking PEDs.

Phils' final record: 66-96, 4th place in East, just barely ahead of the Fish!

So a bad bullpen just got worse. Not that it matters.

Colonel~ They should bring him back next year for the league minimum. The only reason they should bring him back at all is 'cause he a lefty & they need that. Other than Diekman who else is in their system?

The subset happened to be Hispanic (excepting Braun).

Who went to college at ... drum roll please ... University of Miami. Apparently he was a teammate of a couple of the other guys caught in this.

"Yeah, well, there's a difference. I'm not insiunating that any random Dominican is likely to have cheated."

Neither id I.

Jack, since when is attempting to gain an unfair advantage morally justifiable?

(nice job, M. Provocateur)

DPat, Bastardo will get a raise if he stays with the Phillies. Book it.

The only way he'll get less money next season is if the Phillies release him. Given the dearth of consistent RP in MLB, I would advise against that.

Come on ColonelTom. Be serious. We can't just give away Jimenez to the Pirates. They've already gotten Grilli for nothing from us. We need to spread the love around.

Jimenez will be the centerpiece of the deal that sends Ruf to the Rays as a PTBNL, where he'll throw sixty innings of hitless baseball as a closer, while the Phils get a veteran middle reliever in return who's cut before Spring Training ends. Make it happen, RAJ!

Can't imagine how bad Bastardo would have been without PED's. Dan Meyer has a point but his performance in spring training wouldn't have given him a roster spot either way. Can't wait for A-Rod debut. Hopefully a guy in a suit walks onto the field and drags him off.

Did the Angels signing Dontrelle Willis to a minor league deal get a mention here?

From MLBTR: "The 31-year-old, who last appeared in a MLB game in 2011, has been pitching with the Long Island Ducks of the independent Atlantic League where he has posted a 2.57 ERA, 5.3 K/9, and 4.4 BB/9 in 14 starts covering 87 2/3 innings."

Dan Meyer has no point. He sucks.

lorecore: that's what I thought immediatly too. While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think Dan Meyer was ever going to be on this team.

speaking of Dan Meyer, i hate the Braves. He was the centerpiece of the deal for Tim Hudson and immediately sucked, along with the other guys traded, while Tim Hudson gave the Braves +1500 IP of 3.50 ERA.

I have returned for this one thread and I have to say I was considered a racist (by Clout and associates) for trashing some of the latino players and talking trash about Bastardo and Howard. Clout believed the Howard naysayers would be proven wrong when he came back and his numbers would blow somebody like Adam Dunn out of the water for 2012, 2013 and beyond.

I can't say this site is better without me.
By the way, I remain half Italian and half Latino (yes, with even some even "black" latinos on my mother's side). I never said anything more or less racist than anybody else here.
I miss some of you guys and some I realize have no life and cling to this site due to a lack of friends or a life.

Does anyone know why Incaviglia and Hollins werent at the 93 reunion?

Something went wrong on this blog when we replaced Raul's Grandpa, Sophist, and many, many others with fake clout and fake Jake.

Don't forget fake jbird too!

They were busy going through their old steroids to give to Bastardo.

I guess Bastardo really is a b_stard.

As much as I hate fall and winter, I will nonetheless be happy when this Phillies season is dead and buried and the NHL is under way.

Dan Meyer may suck but, he does bring up a point that's lost in the defense of players who use PEDs. Very few guys who are drafted make it. When they see guys advance who they know or suspect are using PEDs, it puts enormous pressure on them to do the same. And, for every Dan Meyer, there is another guy who decided to use illicitly and, whether he made it or not, may have any number of health consequences. To me, that's why it's important to catch and punish the cheaters. Not the integrity of the game or its statistical history.

I don't see why the nature of your economics would motivate you to cheat more than any other economic situation. Given the median income in the US, one year of the MLB minimum would equal 10 years... 4 years would be the "working lifetime". So the motivation factor can be the same regardless of your nationality.

And I certainly don't understand the "Ends Justify the Means" moral argument Jack was trying to espouse. This ain't someone stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family. Cue: NEPP

What's likely the issue here, the US drug trafficking laws are more restrictive than in the latin american countries. A company like BioGenesis could take advantage of that and manufacture and distribute easier under that umbrella (given their Miami location).

For a company like BioGenesis to be successful, they would need to have a series of recruiters/word of mouth dealers. Do these players have the same agents (e.g. ACEs)? Did they have the same recruiters? the same scouts? Where do they reside during the offseason? etc

So its likely that you would have similar backgrounds of the clients. Like BALCO's clients before centering around a certain region and the relationships of the players there. Are there other BALCO's or Biogenesis' out there with a client population more representative of MLB's ethnic breakdown? Probably.

Although, for PR reasons, MLB should however concern themselves with the appearance of the named list and perhaps get in front of it...

I just look forward to MLB taking away the Phillies 2013 4th place finish from the record books.

If Bastardo didn't cheat would Grilli be a phillie. hmm.

Yeah Real Jake was a real prize, always pining for Rube to buy buy buy, and other such idiocy.

awh: You can't see an argument that it's morally justifiable for a player to use PEDs if the result is a job which allows him to provide a better life for his family?

The argument that it's "illegal" is not an a priori argument against it--it's simply an appeal to authority.

It strikes me that the only real moral argument against is the Dan Meyer argument--that it's stealing from someone else. Roster spots are scarce resources, and so a roster spot for Bastardo necessarily means no roster spot for someone else.

shame Paps wasnt on that list...

for at least the rest of this season

:)

@jbird -- the same Grilli who all but was relegated to AAAA status and all of a sudden found the "fountain of youth" in his mid 30s???
hmmmm

Does anyone know why Incaviglia and Hollins werent at the 93 reunion?

Posted by: George | Monday, August 05, 2013 at 02:48 PM


they were springing Dude out of the overnite Phila holding cells.

I mean the "Dan Meyer argument" in the abstract, of course.

Dan Meyer may think Bastardo robbed him of a job, but there's no real empirical support for that. Dan Meyer is currently pitching in independent ball, and hasn't appeared in the majors since July 2010. He wasn't next in line. Not even close.

Hamm: Good point, though Grilli did have the 1st rd pick, top prospect pedigree to attest to some underlying talent. hmmmmmm?

@jbird -- right. Just like Elmn

Hope the Phils call me to bring the guy who replaces Bastardo on the roster to CBP.

I'm clean now. Honest. Dan Meyers can't carry my can of weight gainer, bro.

"there is another guy who decided to use illicitly and, whether he made it or not, may have any number of health consequences."

What are some of the consequences of the types of treatments these guys are using? It's pretty obvious Biogensis isn't just shipping out some old school steroid syringes. The stuff athletes are doing nowadays seem to be pretty safe.

Not saying this makes it right or not, the rules are the rules and players should be suspended, but what exactly are we protecting people from at this point?

More depressing at this point...

a day without Phillies baseball

a day with Phillies baseball

?

Meyer tweeted that the original tweet was a joke, and that Bastardo was nice guy. FWIW.

A-Rod officially suspended for 2013/2014 pending appeal

I hope they don't trace that box from Edmunds Scientific to Mick Billmeyer's house.

This blog was fun when any poster could join in to discuss/debate a topic. Ever since the name-changer creep started impersonating users, this blog has gone to crap. He/she/it is BL cancer.

Cyclic, I have had the same thought numerous times lately. Kind of like watching a beloved dog's health decline and trying to decide whether it's better to keep it around a bit longer or put it down.

Remember in April there was a discussions about how many waiver claims you'd have to do to incrementally increase the 25th man on your roster until it was a worthwhile upgrade?

Skip ahead a few months and the entire waiver wire usually reads better than our bench and middle relief.

By the way, I am taking an Internet forum about a sport way too seriously.

Certain players who are Hispanic a priori might have completely rational and (I would argue) even be compelled morally to take PEDs.

"awh: You can't see an argument that it's morally justifiable for a player to use PEDs if the result is a job which allows him to provide a better life for his family?"


Jack, the faulty line of reasoning in your argument is contained in the presumption that there is no other way for that person to provide a better life for his family.

The falsity of that presumption is so self-evident I needn't waste any more time dismissing it.

" He/she/it is BL cancer."


Anonymous, I'm starting to think the impostor is one of the Comcast staff sent here to drive traffic.

It figures that one of our very few honest to goodness young big leaguers isn't really.

AWH, good point about the ethical aspects. The comment/position bothered me on another ground: a bit too much dog eat dog. e.g. are you morally justified in killing someone else's kids if it's the only way to get food, medicine, whatever for your kids?

No matter how you slice or dice it, ARoid's suspension, if upheld, is going to cost him more than $30MM.

"No matter how you slice or dice it, ARoid's suspension, if upheld, is going to cost him more than $30MM."

That's a lot of strippers and lap dances!

AROD to Nixon

AROD - I am not a crook

Nixon - one more time - now..

AROD - I am not a crook

Nixon - NO NO NO - DO it wit feeling!

AROD- Feeling?

Do the Yankees get to keep what Arod loses?

It's true--Mark McGwire often spoke of his struggle to escape the barrio.

Tricky dick, good point. You can take Jack's logic to just about any end, if you wish.

Under Jack's line of reasoning Tonya Harding was morally justified in trying to cripple Nancy Kerrigan before the Olympics because a gold medal would have enabled her to provide a better life for her family.

I have to admit that it's gratifying to see that chump Valdespin outed....a more gold-plated jack@$$ does not exist. Even his teammates hated him.

If Amaro was fired tomorrow, how long do you think it would take him to find another GM job? Probably multiple years. I mean, would he even find another one, ever? That's kind of telling that the Phillies are allowing him to stick around, even though his own market value to other teams as a GM is zero.

It's amazing, there are 6 billion people in the world, and 32 major league GMs, somehow RAJ is one of them.

Melky Cabrera's season isn't doing any favors for Nelson Cruz FA stock.

A game's a game.

I'd cheat at a game if I was dirt poor and trying to dig my family out of poverty.

loecore, yes they do. They'll save $30MM+ if the suspension is upheld.


Personally, I have a bit of a problem with that. IMHO, players' lost wages from a drug suspension should go into the players' pension fund, removing any incentive for a team to try any shenanigans (i.e. entrap players who'd contracts they don't like), and to compensate the [ostensibly] clean players the PED user competed against.

IMO a suspension should not be able to be used as a vehicle for a team to get out of a financial obligation it entered into willingly.

No one made the Steinbrenners give ARoid that idiotic contract. They should have to live by its' financial terms.

Awh, yes. Maybe it seems arbitrary, but here are two examples, one of which I regard as OK and one not OK.

OK: you and another dad have a contest for who gets the life-saving vaccine. If you win, you may feel bad for him and his kids (I would), but that's life.

Not OK: he wins, but you break into his house later that night and steal the vaccine and his kids end up dying.

So people of Latin American descent are morally justified in taking PED's?

That is an absurd argument if I've ever heard one.

awh: 100% agree, that is a extremely stupid rule. I also hate that players can serve time while on the DL.

Si

No one made the Steinbrenners give ARoid that idiotic contract. They should have to live by its' financial terms.

Posted by: awh | Monday, August 05, 2013 at 03:48 PM

Is it preposterous to wonder whether Arod's super-sized suspension is in part a financial favor to the Yankeess?

They should just revoke all 2009 World Series victories due to A-Rod's participation.

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