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Thursday, August 01, 2013

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Re-posted from last topic:

"With some good health and quality free agent signings in the pen and in the outfield, they can easily contend in 2014 if they don't give Lee away this offseason." - Jake

Amaro thinks this is true, you think this is true, who am I or anybody else to say this will absolutely not be true. With the expanded playoff system, baseball is now closer to hockey - every year is new and a few key changes in the roster and some good health can make you a postseason team again.

Ooh, baby, inject me with your truth!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/detroit-tigers-natural-sounds-at-comerica-park-no-announcers-073013

If the Phils give us this option, I'll forgive them for blowing it at the deadline.

Or... Or... Now hear me out. They continue to suck and decline for a third straight year.

Time to face reality. Our team is old and injury-prone. Ryan Howard will never again hit 40 homers in a season. At this point, I'm wondering if 30 is even in the realm of possibility anymore. How long will Chase Utley be able to keep it together before he breaks down and misses significant time again? How much more velocity will Papelbon lose on his fastball?

We have a weak free agent class coming up. With no real feasible options in the minors to plug some of our holes, do we really want to overpay for mediocrity or worse?

What about the few young players we do have who are up here right now that are playing out of position? What do we do about them?

There are no quick fixes to the hole the Phillies have dug themselves into. Everyone around baseball for the last few years agreed that the Phillies had a window in which to succeed and that it would soon be closing. Well guess what? It closed last year. Not coming to terms with that has resulted in what you're seeing now, and it'll only continue to get worse the longer we keep fighting it.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/detroit-tigers-natural-sounds-at-comerica-park-no-announcers-073013

"If the Phils give us this option, I'll forgive them for blowing it at the deadline." -RT

I'd be happy if McCarthy would just shut up for 5 minutes.

I thought M.Young had a no-trade clause when his name was being mentioned during every trade discussion. And that issue made it very difficult for him to be traded.

Given how very fiew players were traded at all this week, if must say something about a differing evaluation of talent across teams. Apparently, both sides want to 'win' the trade.

Even so, IF M.Young did actually agree to a trade, Amaro should have just taken the best offer he had. By calling up Asche, Amaro was telling Young his time was up. Then to not trade him for anything was ridiculous, assuming Young would allow it.

Not sure if the Yankees story is true but Amaro should have listened to Yankees offer then asked for one more lottery ticket guy then accepted whatever Cashman said and been happy to get something.

Though I do agree with Amaro trying to trade 'clubhouse' problem children. Rollins is not going anywhere as he stated. Lee might be an off-season trade. (I wonder when he gets to pick new teams for his no-trade.) Papelbon is really going to have to turn himself around for any team to want him.

From Stark's article:

"But you have to listen, don't you? If somebody will give you something for some of those guys who aren't part of the future, you have to listen. But with some of them, they barely listened."


Because the GM doesn't know how to sell. All he has ever known is "buy, buy and buy some more". What Ruben really needed was a clone of himself as a GM with a few of these other clubs. But because most of the GM's in baseball aren't as thick as he is, he was stuck without anyone to dance with.

I have no idea what message was sent today. Not doing a thing the past week was probably the wrong one to send to your fans and the wrong one to make for the future of your organization. Yes, some waiver-claim deals can still be made in August. But today was a big let-down for many. A few veterans are probably down they are stuck here for the rest of the year. Charlie can't be real happy his tenure is going to end with this mess of a roster for the next 2 months. And the fans can't be real happy to watch more of the same boring baseball with a bunch of boring characters with very little to keep people motivated to stay awake for the next 2 months.

Ruben came off looking like he has no plan and no idea what he's doing. He has sent a message indirectly that the pieces he collected are good enough or should be good enough. Or it comes off as the Phils have a roster filled with guys that nobody else values or wants and a roster full of terrible contracts that are hard to move. And even harder to move when the GM doesn't want to listen or be realistic with other teams.

There is a clear disconnection here. When the manager talks about putting someone into the OF in the last 2 months of the season and the player has never played one inning (that I know of) of professional ball in the OF, that speaks of the issues going on here. Why not put Michael Young in the bullpen too? Or have Laynce Nix catch? Makes as much sense, doesn't it?

To me, I have gotten the vibe that they aren't even trying anymore. Continuing to trot out McDonald and Martinez and Nix and Valdes says that they aren't trying. Why are they still here? Are they a part of the future plans? That's the best you can do for your 25 man roster? The fans notice that stuff (nice 'crowd' tonight). Charlie probably would like to know too. I don't even blame him for much of what has gone on this year. He can only play who he's got in uniform. And he ain't got much.

You really accept a trade of Mike Young for some "out of the top 100" middling A Ball guy? Or even better International Signing Money? I think the way the crazy brain of Ruben thinks is that he may consider keeping Young based on the way the next few months and hot stove play out.

There weren't that many teams shopping players this deadline. Do you really think Young's value is going to go up as more teams fall out of contention and start placing players on waivers?

RT: The problem is we don't precisely know what Young's value is right now because we don't know what, if anything, was offered for him.

All we have is the usual rank speculation from clueless posters.

In prior thread I said some scouts had projected that Asche could end up at 1B.

aksmith then stated flatly (because he, like lorecore, feels compelled to disagree with everything I post) that no one ever suggested that Asche may end up at 1B.

When I said he was wrong, he demanded proof. I generally ignore these kind of childish responses, but I actually like aksmith so here goes: From John Sickels summary of scouting reports on players heading into the 2011 draft: "His fielding pct. hovers around .900 and Big 12 observers think a move to first base will be necessary in the long run."

Given that Asche was called up on July 30, with the clear intention of giving him the start on July 31, it certainly looks like Amaro intended to trade Young at the deadline.

I have to think he botched it, and that's the only reason Young is still here.

Certainly there was no reason to keep Young, he was clearly being shopped, and there were interested parties. Can't really think of another explanation.

Let's hope we can get something for him in August.

denny b: Should I add you to the list of posters who favored dumping Young and others for nothing? Four posters on the list so far, which is pretty funny because when I suggested that was what posters wanted everyone freaked out and said I was exaggerating. If Rube was offered nothing of value for Young, should he have DFA'd him?

ramsey: What did those "interested parties" offer? Since Rube didn't make the deal, should he DFA Young? You'll be #6 on my list of posters who favor dumping vets for nothing.

clout --

Not having access to D Pat's source, I don't know exactly what was offered. I am simply observing that Young has little value to us and some value to others, which suggests there was a deal to be made.

I can only speculate about why the deal failed to take place, but at this point pinning it on Amaro's incompetence seems the smart bet.

Having Amaro run your organization is like having a former salesman in charge of operations, when what you really need is a good manager. It's great (and easier) to buy shiny new toys and show them off, but selling/planning definitely requires more execution skills.

I'm not angry that he didn't trade Cliff Lee, but he doesn't come off as someone who has a great plan (or ever really had one).

ramsey: If one of the beat writers reveals that Rube turned down an offer of a legitimate prospect for Young, I'll lead the mob to tar and feather him.

So we seriously told the Yankees that Ruiz is untouchable and we turned down a trade with no counter-offer for M. Young?


Makes sense.

I'm curious as to what a "legitimate" prospect is...was the return for Jim Thome last year "legitimate prospects"? Was JC Ramirez (your bet to be the best of the bunch in the Lee deal) a "legitimate prospect"?

What return could we expect for 2 months of a no-glove RH bat anyway and why wouldn't any return be better than playing him given that he's gonna walk in 2 months anyway and we're not exactly in any playoff race? Instead, we've got a manager who has openly stated that he's going to keep M. Young 100% as an everyday starter and move guys like Asche to the outfield so as not to rock the boat with M. Young. This is a manager who already refused to ever ever consider using a defensive replacement for M. Young despite him being pretty much the worst defensive 3B I've ever seen play the game.

What sick hold does M. Young have over this organization? Even Texas had no issues telling him to fvck off and DHed him because he's terrible and no issues dumping to us for 2 mediocre relievers.

Suggested topic header: Will Cody Asche have a better career than Rick Schu?

Schu had a 9-year MLB career including one season as a regular.

They are different players, of course, Schu had a good glove and bad bat and Asche is just the opposite. But it's a legitimate question.

On trading for Cliff Lee:

"'I don't know of a team in baseball that would [do] that. Taking on that much money and giving up three legit prospects seems like a stretch for anyone,' one exec said."

Clout, this coupled with Heyman's report on Cashman's inquiries leads me to believe Amaro either had no real intention of trading any of these guys or that he was just being completely unrealistic in his expectations.

I think the Phillies would be quite happy if Asche had the same Age 24 season that Rick Schu had...(.782 OPS in 1986 in 233 PA)

He's a stopgap until Maikel Franco hopefully.

Apparently Amaro ripped Heyman specifically in an interview this morning on WIP.

Stay classy, Rube.

How is this guy the face of an almost billion dollar business?

Odd, he's always seemed like a pretty classy guy before this...

some text

As he doesn't have a "bad" glove though.

Whoever that's intended for must be #1.

I believe he was addressing the entire fanbase and city there, RT.

He was addressing all the saber-people who questioned the Ryan Howard contract at the time of the signing.

"ramsey: If one of the beat writers reveals that Rube turned down an offer of a legitimate prospect for Young, I'll lead the mob to tar and feather him."

Hunch is the mob will have tarred and feathered you before you had any chance to "lead" said mob.

Is it me, or does Cody Asche look a whole lot like Chase Utley circa 2004

noname - That would be great. Asche is said to have the demeanor of Utley. The one thing he doesn't have is the tools Utley has.

Regarding Amaro's comments about Heyman - He must have really thin skin to snap off like that. Why even address Heyman's comments and rip him? Seems to me that he takes a lot of things personally and not in a professional manner.

Heyman is pretty worthless...except for when its the Yankees or Mets as both orgs use him as a mouthpiece and leak good stuff to him.

Sorry you suck, Rube.

Ahh. Talks of tools. Utley was indeed a tool shed. The leather Cody flashed last night speaks of tools.

Cody Asche swing mechanics 2013 >>>>>> Dom Brown swing mechanics 2010,11,12


His age 23 season at AAA (2013) .295 .352 .485 .837 with 15 HRs 24 doubles and 4 triples

Chase Utley's age 23 season at AAA (2002)
.263 .352 .461 .813 with 17 HRs, 39 doubles, and 1 triple

Utley played 21 more games at AAA in his age 23 season. He did not explode until his next year (age 24 season).

Having a worse week for Philadelphia Sports:

1. Ruben Amaro Jr

2. Riley Cooper


I think the Phillies would be quite happy if Asche had the same Age 24 season that Rick Schu had...(.782 OPS in 1986 in 233 PA)

He's a stopgap until Maikel Franco hopefully.

Posted by: NEPP | Thursday, August 01, 2013 at 08:05 AM

No, hopefully Asche's a guy who can reach his best-case scenario upside of being a league-average 3B who you can safely run out there for six seasons and not dread having to play the abysmal FA market or fear for every step back Franco's development takes. Hopefully he can provide half-a-decade of all-aspect play at 3B, so that Phans can almost forget that during the Phils' pennant golden age they ran out a series of all glove/no bat and all bat/no glove third basemen.

He probably won't, of course, and his being a bridge to the franchise's 3B of the future in Franco is probably the most realistic take. But I'd think we'd hope for more than his just being a stopgap.

noname --

I have high hopes for Asche, but you have to remember that Utley was taken 15th overall, whereas Asche was taken 151st overall.

Asche can still be a good player, but scouts liked Utley's tools a lot more coming out of college.

***His age 23 season at AAA (2013) .295 .352 .485 .837 with 15 HRs 24 doubles and 4 triples

Chase Utley's age 23 season at AAA (2002)
.263 .352 .461 .813 with 17 HRs, 39 doubles, and 1 triple

***

All that is is an indication of why you cant make comparisons like that with minor league stats.

Is Gillick still an advisor to the GM?

He's still on the payroll...I dont know how much actual advising he does.

noname - I don't get the mention of Dom Brown there but yes, I think the Asche and Utley comparison at AAA is apt.

The problem is that Asche may not have any more projection to his game whereas Utley at the same age had much more projection. That's why you can't scout a boxscore.

Ramsey- So we dismiss anyone not taken in the 1st round of the amateur draft? Got it.

NEPP- Yeah, I guess we have to see how it plays out. I'm just not much of a fan of talk of tools. Can we create a list of all the failed tool sheds that the Phils have taken in the last 10 years? It is honestly shocking that our void is in the OF with the likes of:

Greg Golson
Anthony Hewitt (HAHA)
Zach Collier
Larry Greene


Asche hopefully becomes an average MLB 3B...there's a ton of value in that if it happens.

Not everyone has to be a generational talent at their position (like Utley has been).

Larry Greene wasn't a toolshed to be completely honest. He had one tool, his power. Which hasn't shown at all yet.

I like Asche, but I'm wary of Utley's comps. Unfair.

Possible explanation for Amaro's inaction: the limited partnership is making "decisions" about the veterans on the roster; they are especially fond of those who played on the last playoff team (Utley, Howard, Ruiz, Lee, Hamels). That, coupled by what appears to be a myopic insistence that highly-paid players play, regardless of the quality of their play, would "hog-tie" any GM.

I've come to my senses. This team will never be "blown up" as long as there's a big-dollar contract to be played out. Regardless, the reliance on the aging core from the last playoff team may very well have the same result as a massive roster purge - an endless procession of 65 - 70 win seasons.

I really wish that the limited partnership would sell the damn team. It would be interesting to see how Amaro might wheel and deal with an ownership not comprised of an ambitious billionaire surrounded by clueless curmudgeons.

What is this "projection"? If scouts and their projections were always right, this league would be amazing! Unfortunately they are not. I have a feeling that scouting is kind of like high school in some aspects. One guy starts talking up this kid, people start to jump on the bandwagon, and then they are popular. Worked well for Kyle Drabek, that's for sure.

I usually don't enjoy Craig Calcaterra, but this was funny:

"Jon Heyman may be wrong sometimes, but I feel like he’s done his job way better than Amaro has in the past year or two. I mean, Heyman didn’t give that deal to Ryan Howard and make Delmon Young a major part of the 2013 business plan. Methinks Amaro is not in any position to go after people for their mistakes, real or imagined."

I said he looked like him, not that he had the same game as him. Utley was and still is a super star. I just think we gotta give the kid a few chances at becoming something special before we bury him bc of what espn.com and baseball america say about him.

Projection means the player can, key word can, grow into a better player because they possess the skills for transforming themselves into that better player. Kyle Drabek is an interesting example considering he got hurt twice and made it to the majors.

Who's burying him noname? No one here wants to see Asche fail. Everyone wants to see him turn into a good player for the Phillies.

BTW, I sure hope that the "...endless procession of 65 - 70 win seasons." yields quality draft picks. Come to think of it - based on the history of "toolsy", unpolished picks - it would probably be a plus if the draft was much better run. How much Amaro has to do with the draft at this point is something I simply don't know.

I suppose in a perfect world, we could clone the Cardinals or the Braves ownership and front office and plunk them down right here in Philadelphia. However, that ain't happening here...

Rube's coming back on WIP to clarify his earier comments. This should be good, lol.

Ha. Yes, definitely want the Braves ownership in Philly. Read up sometime on Liberty Media.

Saying he is a placeholder for M Franco is burying him. M Franco has the "higher ceiling", but lets give Ashe a chance. If he fails we got another "can't miss" toolshed waiting in the wings to see if his game translates in the majors. Of course M Franco has only played ~30 games at the AA level.

"I question Jon Heyman's production as a beat writer. I mean, we have guys like Matt Gelb and Todd Zolecki who have written hundreds of more words than Heyman has and have produced hundreds of more lines of copy. I just don't see the production when I look at Jon."

noname - You come off as someone who really doesn't know a lot about the farm system or prospects in general. Do you understand why Franco has a higher ceiling than Asche?

I want to see Asche play 3B for the rest of the season, or at least platoon with Frandsen. Unfortunately our moron GM couldn't even work out a trade for MYoung, so now its likely that Asche will be bounced around the OF and the bench for the next two months.

anyone with quotes of Amaro on Heyman?

I don't care about ceilings, dude. I care about PRODUCTION. haha, that was fun.

Anyway, my point is, Franco is a can't miss prospect with TERRIBLE plate discipline. And I am not trying to bash Franco, I am more bitter about yesterday in general and my bitterness is being redirected I guess.

This team as constructed won't be fun to watch. The Cody Asche's of the world will make 70-80 win seasons bearable. Screw what the scouts say and ceilings are and let the kid play. He has the look and we will find out if he has the game.

One columnist is saying that the Bosox are still "hot for Young":


http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post?id=6220


If anyone is an ESPN insider I'm sure we would all appreciate further insight into the article.

here is the article, AWH...

It's almost unfathomable that a deal did not get done between the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies for third baseman Michael Young, and it's equally hard to believe that some sort of deal won't be scratched out between the two teams over the next month, presuming of course, that Young and all other parties involved in such a deal are able to pass through waivers.

The Red Sox were one of three teams for which Young said he would be willing to waive his no-trade clause, with the Texas Rangers and New York Yankees being the only other two "permitted" destinations. Certainly that factored into the Phillies not being able to get the best deal possible, but after Boston sent away Jose Iglesias in the Jake Peavy deal, there's not a lot left in their own third base cupboard.

For now, the Red Sox will go with a combination of Brock Holt and Brandon Snyder at the hot corner, at least until they decide to recall Will Middlebrooks and his .192 batting average for a second chance. There's also been talk of using highly touted shortstop prospect Xander Bogaerts at the position, and as soon as the organization makes the decision on whether to tinker with his development or not by changing his position, one of those players will likely be joining the team.

Of course, with the Peavy deal no longer occupying general manager Ben Cherington's time, maybe the best option would be to see if he and the Phillies can come to a meeting of the minds over Young. If Boston starts to slip in the standings, and nobody emerges as an acceptable third base option from within, the pressure will certainly be mounting to work something out.

Two things:

1.) Charlie said "we may try him in the outfield some." If you think the season is lost what does it matter where they put Asche? Either him or Franco will have to move at some point so why not try one of them in the outfield? I just don't see the angst over the move. Also, Charlie has defensively subbed for MYoung in the past. I didn't imagine that happening.

2.) Amaro can seemingly be thin skinned but he is not the only GM who has publicly bashed a writer for something they wrote. He is not the first guy to go after Heyman's writing either.

There is almost zero chance that Cashman would let Young get through waivers to Boston...given that he was already willing to pay his entire salary and give up a prospect for him. Thus, there won't be a deal with Boston.

I didn't catch the initial interview, but when Amaro came back on, he said he wasn't calling Heyman and liar and claimed he didn't even get a chance to read Heyman's report. He then confirmed that he did indeed engage in trade talks with the Yankees but denied telling Cashman that Carlos Ruiz was off the table. He then followed up that comment by saying that the Phillies don't really have a catcher to replace Carlos Ruiz though.

That was all. Apparently WIP will be posting a transcript and/or a recording link later. Watch the WIP Morning Show's twitter feed. Should pop up there eventually.

Not much of note in ESPN insider.

"It's almost unfathomable that a deal did not get done between the Boston Red Sox and the Philadelphia Phillies for third baseman Michael Young, and it's equally hard to believe that some sort of deal won't be scratched out between the two teams over the next month, presuming of course, that Young and all other parties involved in such a deal are able to pass through waivers.

The Red Sox were one of three teams for which Young said he would be willing to waive his no-trade clause, with the Texas Rangers and New York Yankees being the only other two "permitted" destinations. Certainly that factored into the Phillies not being able to get the best deal possible, but after Boston sent away Jose Iglesias in the Jake Peavy deal, there's not a lot left in their own third base cupboard.

For now, the Red Sox will go with a combination of Brock Holt and Brandon Snyder at the hot corner, at least until they decide to recall Will Middlebrooks and his .192 batting average for a second chance. There's also been talk of using highly touted shortstop prospect Xander Bogaerts at the position, and as soon as the organization makes the decision on whether to tinker with his development or not by changing his position, one of those players will likely be joining the team.

Of course, with the Peavy deal no longer occupying general manager Ben Cherington's time, maybe the best option would be to see if he and the Phillies can come to a meeting of the minds over Young. If Boston starts to slip in the standings, and nobody emerges as an acceptable third base option from within, the pressure will certainly be mounting to work something out."

NEPP's head might explode:

“I don’t know if it is going to be possible to reproduce the kind of production that I am going to be able to get out of a guy like Chase Utley. There’s not a player out there, a second baseman in fact, who is going to be able to produce the way he is going to produce."

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/08/01/ruben-amaro-defends-phillies-moves-to-angelo-cataldi/

Also I don't see why the Yankees wouldn't block the Red Sox on waivers on Young.

Heyman's just said the prospect was a guy with the last name "Kehnle" (sp)...a double a arm apparently.

I agree on Utley and am happy if they extend him along that 2/26 lines.

"Franco is a can't miss prospect with TERRIBLE plate discipline"

Then why has he only struck out 13 times in 150 AA PA while being one of the younger hitters in the league? And don't act like this is a rare stretch either, his milb career 14.7 K% is very low, and extremely low for a player with his HR totals.

To be fair- outside of Utley the only second baseman on the free agent market who is equal or better offensively is Cano and he is going to get a ton of money being arguably the biggest free agent on the market. The phillies internal option is Hernandez.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=kahnle001tho

Tommy Kahnle

23 years old, great hit and miss stuff but major control issues (he'd fit right in).

So basically he is Aumont?

A non-French speaking version of Aumont basically.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the rumored Utley deal. It's a good deal for a player of his likely production (yeah, I said it), and it keeps around the greatest Philly since Mike Schmidt.

I was referring to all the variations of "production".

It must be tough to reproduce production.

nonamePHame appears to share aksmith's belief that scouting has no value. Because scouts are wrong, maybe even 30% of the time, you really can't put any stock in what they say.

Yet the fact remains, higher draft picks (based on scouting) do better than lower picks, higher ranked prospects by BA, sickels, prospectnation etc. do better than lower ranked prospects etc. etc.

And it is also a fact that scouts rank Franco higher than Asche. Does that make it certain that Franco will have the better career? No. Way too many variables (injury, skill development, age etc.)

But does it make it more likely that Franco will, indeed, be the better player? Yes.

Hmm. So shall we refer to Utley's play as "reproduction" now?

Franco is a can't miss prospect with TERRIBLE plate discipline"

Then why has he only struck out 13 times in 150 AA PA while being one of the younger hitters in the league? And don't act like this is a rare stretch either, his milb career 14.7 K% is very low, and extremely low for a player with his HR totals.

Posted by: lorecore | Thursday, August 01, 2013 at 09:31 AM

Thanks for proving my point, Lorecore. Because, from what I have read, the holy "scouts" (read: "Keith Law") view his plate discipline as a real issue (along with the dreaded "arm bar").

I think its funny when fans who don't know anything about prospects bash the scouts who give us the best information about said prospects. Those scouts see these guys a whole lot more than posters do.

Actually isn't it that scouts fear that Franco's "load" on his swing will become an impediment when facing better pitching? Not exactly his approach, but more of the mechanics of the swing. Of course these guys see hundreds and hundreds of players, so they do have a better sense of what works and what doesn't.

tti: "If you think the season is lost what does it matter where they put Asche?"

Because one of the biggest questions about his MLB future is his ability to play 3B. Obviously he doesn't differ from any other prospect to ever debut that the question is if he can perform in the bigs overall - but specifically with Cody Asche, the book on him has been that he is iffy with the glove at 3B, which would threaten his ability to be a MLB contributor since his bat isn't that strong to completely carry him.

If you call him up to the majors, specifically in a lost season, you are a complete and utter moron to not give Asche as much experience at 3B as you can. Sure he can sit some games vs LHP or spot start elsewhere in case of an injury - but anything more than that is stupid.

Do you disagree?

if scouts were so good, then how is it that there are always winners and losers in deals involving prospects. If scouting reports were right even a majority of the time, a lot more of these deadline deals would have panned out for the sellers.

Again, I appreciate the fact that scouts can report on prospects that I don't have the time and energy to see (driving to LHV or reading), but I think they are more like meteorologists than actuaries.

What return could we expect for 2 months of a no-glove RH bat anyway and why wouldn't any return be better than playing him given that he's gonna walk in 2 months anyway and we're not exactly in any playoff race?

What if that return is another 25-year old reliever in AAA that throws hard but has control issues? We seem to have a glut of those.

nonname: "Thanks for proving my point, Lorecore. Because, from what I have read, the holy "scouts" (read: "Keith Law") view his plate discipline as a real issue (along with the dreaded "arm bar")."

They don't say he has terrible plate discipline like you just did. They say he 'attacks' everything and has an unusually deep/long 'load' on his swing.

Franco swings a ton, and its long. Two very legit criticisms. He has succeeded them to this point. I am very appreciative that scouts are there to tell me these things, since all I can do is calculate his K% on b-ref. Why anyone wouldn't appreciate free information is beyond me.

noname: Why is there a stock market, why doesn't everyone just buy the good companies and sell the bad ones?

Why are the realtors? Why doesn't everyone just sell their house for the exact penny its worth whenever they want to?

RedBurb: 8:35 post right on, 100%.

All this talk of Rick Schu... what ever happened to RSB? Beerleaguer should run a better-know-a-commenter feature.

BB% can also be an indicator of plate discipline. If you have insane hand-eye coordination, but no plate discipline, you are vlad guerrero.

I like free information. But like the weather man, I only put a little faith in scouting reports.

Tommy Kahnle

23 years old, great hit and miss stuff but major control issues (he'd fit right in).

Posted by: NEPP

Sounds like I wasn't far off.

I'm not fully understanding what noname's problem with scouts is. Because they can be proven wrong sometimes, therefore we can't trust anything they say about a player and need to just play the young guys? Is that what you're saying?

"What if that return is another 25-year old reliever in AAA that throws hard but has control issues? We seem to have a glut of those."

The more the better. Having 10 guys with ~10% chance of figuring it out and being successful is a lot better than having 5-6. And its certainly more useful than two months of MY on a losing team.

lorecore: I think they should start him at third base often, but there is not a problem with putting him in the outfield a game here and there to see if he can play the position.

Again if the season is lost that means you can give him plenty of time at third but it also means you can afford to see other things as well that may impact the future of the club.

I think they would be dumb to not try things with him considering Franco projects as a much better defensive third baseman than Asche. Cody will be the one that moves.

Since Franco's name was brought up - Did anyone else hear Wheels during the broadcast last night mention that Franco would get an invite to Spring Training and could make the MLB club? Was I the only one to hear that?

The original point: Just because the scouts say so doesn't mean Cody Asche is keeping the seat warm at 3B until Franco is ready. That is all I am saying. Let the kid play (3b and not OF).

noname: the weather man, really? are you 80yrs old? The weather forecasting technology in today's age is extremely accurate.

If an MLB scout had the track record of a weather report, he'd be in the hall of fame.

Jake: Yesterday:: NonamePHame: Today

noname: "The original point: Just because the scouts say so doesn't mean Cody Asche is keeping the seat warm at 3B until Franco is ready. That is all I am saying. Let the kid play (3b and not OF)."

we are in 100% agreement.

10.5 K/9 this season, but also a 6.0 BB/9. Yikes!

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EST. 2005

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