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Saturday, August 24, 2013


From last thread:

GBrett, this is the killer quote from that Brookover article:

"It masks reality: The Phillies have developed just two quality relievers - Ryan Madson and Antonio Bastardo - in the last decade."

There is nothing else more damning of the organization's ability to develop young relief pitchers.

Two (2) ... TWO in ten years. That has to be the lowest in MLB - by far.

HTF can they think what they're doing with young RP's is working?

Posted by: awh™ | Saturday, August 24, 2013 at 04:43 PM

kuvasz, that's misleading. Lohse took a pillow contract from the Cards. IIRC there's no evidence the Phillies offered Lohse a one-year deal.

Posted by: awh™ | Saturday, August 24, 2013 at 04:44 PM

* * * *

awh: Oh, yeah, you're right, that IS a killer! Glad you highlighted that one.

But Amaro apparently just told the NY Times that our scouting and player development is the backbone of the organization.

Maybe he just left out the word "broken" to modify "backbone".

Only for the Phillies would turning Ethan Martin into a relief pitcher be an outside-the-box move. Isn't that the obvious move?

Gotta love the most ABs going to the worst guy in the lineup. But hey, fastest guy should bat first, and who am I to challenge an Old Baseball Man on that point?

GBrett, funny!

Re: Dubee - I think I remember reading somewhere earlier this summer how Doc considered Dubee his mentor here in Phila., to the point that if Dubes went elsewhere Doc might choose to follow him. I remember it only because I was surprised--but maybe in the fog of the Sandberg transition my memory is off.

It is unfortunate Sandberg believes the first two spots in the lineup are for bad hitters.

DH, Madson was a starter when he was in the minors. So was Bastardo, who actually got called up as a starter in 2009.

How'd that turn out for the Phils?

Maybe, instead of a team that doesn't learn from its' mistakes, the Phillies are a team that doesn't learn from their own successes.

After what 2013 looked like for Doc and Lee, Dubee can take them both. I really wonder what both must be thinking at this point. If I was running out of years and I was on this team with a management group like this, I might want to go elsewhere.

Only for the Phillies would turning Ethan Martin into a relief pitcher be an outside-the-box move.


Sad Guy, I agree! Were it me, I'd have my agent on the phone hourly. But my motivation to leave would not be to follow Rich Dubee.

can_of_corn: I remember reading something similar. I believe Halladay mentioned both Dubee & Charlie. Seeing as how the latter is already gone, I'm all for jettisoning the former ... & if Halladay wants to follow, so be it. However, I rather doubt r00b will allow his prize pony to depart so easily.

I think Sandberg likes to keep the troops guessing a bit. WIll I play tonight? Where will I hit if I do? Subtle, but effective way of communicating who's in charge.

Sorry for the repetition. Posts were slow in showing up.

Thanks, Scott. I read the Delco Times (via their app) so I'm sure that was the article I saw.

Vic looks good in the Boston uniform. I'll enjoy rooting for him during the playoffs. One of the good guys.


You can't be having 20 & 30+ pitch innings & remain a SP.

Wow, he's laboring. No control of the fastball.

BP game!

If he were pitching relief, he'd already be out of the game.

Um, bullpen, not batting practice.

Tuffy looking on, thanking his lucky stars he's out in the desert now.

Oh Good. Garcia is warming up.

You just never know in this sport - game started two up, two down, but the 3rd out may never happen.

Did that set a team record for 1st inning pitches?

Well, that was pitiful. Thanks for your attendance at tonight's game, Ethan.

Seriously? How could the phillies watch this kid warming up and not see his lack of control? Does anyone watch pitchers warming up anymore?

Matt Gelb: "Ethan Martin records two outs. It is the shortest outing for a Phillies starter since Cole Hamels went 0.2 IP on June 1, 2010."

Just goes to show how one good AB can change the complexion of a whole game.

When they bring in The Hairdresser in the first, it isn't a good omen.

Do the Phillies even have a long reliever in their bullpen?

Any specific reason RAJ picked up Bernadina. You know he stopped his PED's to get this bad.

"Any specific reason RAJ picked up Bernadina"

Probably because the previous 3rd, 4th and 5th OFers sucked. The more the merrier.

Docjoe: Only one GM in baseball is sharp enough to identify & sign a player who is slightly worse, but more expensive than, John Mayberry, Jr. That man is r00b.

Well said, GTown_Dave. Kind of hard to believe Martin had Goldschmidt 0-2 at one point.

Clearly we brought Bernadina in for his defense.

Rollins must be exhausted from putting forth an effort the last two nights.

I just wish mini Mart was still up to play in the outfield instead of Dom tonight. We could be watching an OF of Wells, Bernadina and mini mart. I miss Delmon tonite. This feels like a game in Clearwater.

Batting 8th, 9th, 1st and 2nd: Wells, the pitcher, Bernadina and Rollins. Is this someone's idea of a joke?

Anyone hoping for improved lineup construction under the new boss can forget about it.

I know the game looks like a loss, but can we please stop the in-game interviews?

Was Margaret Sandberg perhaps supposed to display a bit less excitement about her husband becoming manager when it came at UC's expense? Let's see if she catches Twitter flak.

I'm pretty sure Valdes was sent down, so, we don't really have a long reliever.

Dom is out. It did look like he hurt himself during his at-bat.

Dom taken out. Hurt?

I guess Rosenberg & Miner qualify as long relievers, though Miner pitched 2 innings on Thursday.

If it were possible to wager on innings, I'd go all in on a zero for the Phils next inning.

Why is Brown out of the game?

Hey, Dom's out of the game ("Right Heel Soreness")! Soufflé is less fragile.

Garcia's probably in there until he hurts his spritzer arm.

Looking like one of those pythagorean games.

Please just send him back to the salon.

"Please just send him back to the salon."

If his control as a hair stylist bears any resemblance to his control as a major league pitcher, he must have cut off a lot of ears.

All the Minor league Pitching coaches need to be fired. Relievers can't throw strikes or field the position. Bad baseball. I think JRoll is thinking about complaining of soreness somewhere to go home early.

Time to forget about scoring 6 runs, and hoping for 1 hit.

That has to be the worst 8-9-1 we've ever sent to the plate.

Since being called up last year, Brown has played in over 91% of the team's games. I know with GTown a certain amount of stupidity is to be expected in every post, but some of this stuff doesn't deserve to go unchallenged.

Jake could worst in MLB history. Wish there was a 10 run rule.

I can see why Campana is mad.

So we're probably not getting a walkoff win tonight...oh well.

This smells like a no hit bid for Delgado.

they should just let a guy like garcia throw the rest of the game regardless of results, and then just dfa him afterwards.

or zach miner.

sigh, no DOM snd a bullpen game. 0 reasons to watch.

Darin Ruf might hit a there's that.

And we thought he was no good without the Adderall.

Or did he get a prescription? Does anyone know?

Perhaps he just needed a month to get up to mid-season baseball form.

Thx chooch for ruining the no hit bid. Now I'm really glad I came to the game.

No being no-hit is a victory in & of itself.

Tonight's starting pitcher the Phillies: Ben Dover.

Yeah, don't mind tipping my worn-out cap one more time, but a no hitter would be hard to take.

"Perhaps he just needed a month to get up to mid-season baseball form."

Good point, NEPP!

I agree: Escaping a shut-out is a moral victory - and likely the only kind of victory we'll get tonight.

Although in reality, Chooch has basically been himself since his 7th game of the season.

62 G, 54 GS, 218 PA, 198 AB, .303 AVG/.346 OBP/.750 OPS

Not exactly bad...and better than most probably expected of him coming into the season.

The above line includes tonight's numbers.

Bernadina has only played a few games for the Phillies, but he has already managed to show off his complete panoply of non-tools.


Does Zach Miner have to be that fat and out of shape? Another one who should be cutting bangs.

I'm bailing on this game. You can't win 'em all. Or even half of them, as the case may be.

Adam Eaton haunting us again.

Seriously? How could the phillies watch this kid warming up and not see his lack of control? Does anyone watch pitchers warming up anymore?

Posted by: kuvasz | Saturday, August 24, 2013 at 07:28 PM

Didn't daddy watch him pitch? What is this, beerlittleleaguer?

Anyone notice that the Phillies have moved Maikel Franco to 1B for "the remainder of the Reading Phillies season"...aka 9 games. The reason given is to "see if he can handle the position and give them options".


Get used to Bernadina's mug for a few more games.

RAJ just got to work on a 3-year extension.

Great. Now he's gonna get a 3-year deal.

Still waiting for lorecore to "prove with evidence" that 2B is harder to play than 3B. So far we have "need more range" and "because Bill James said so".

GTown and I seem to be on the same wavelength.

Bernadina up to a very impressive .522 OPS on the season now.

That ball to Utley could thwart this comeback. Should be 2-0 now.

Jake, 2B is harder than 3B because of the moves around the 2B bag and turning DPs, etc. It also requires more range than a 3B...range comparable to that of a SS basically. The only thing 3B really requires is a strong arm and fast reflexes. If you have both of those things, you can be a veritable statue otherwise.

Why do you even make arguments like that?

With a real bullpen, it's maybe a 5-3 game now.

***With a real bullpen, it's maybe a 5-3 game now.***

To be fair, its somewhat expected that your SP will make it out of the 1st inning.

Jake: You know, Bill James doesn't just pull this stuff out of the sky. He has spent the last 30+ years of his life painstakingly researching and documenting these things, to a statistically significant certainty. In other words, "Because Bill James says so" is actually a pretty compelling piece of evidence.

Shifting the goalposts, mischaracterizing other posters arguments...

I think Jake is starting to fit in around here, guys.

Jake drops by and says "hit me please."

NEPP - So a 2B needs to cover more ground and turn DPs. How is that harder than fielding screaming line drives and making the longest throws of any infielder?

BAP - Since lorecore can't, maybe you can tell me which statistical formula Bill James used to determine that 2B is harder than 3B.

No comments on the Phils having Maikel Franco playing 1B the rest of the season?

Jake: I can't tell you the statistical formula that Bill James used. I also can't write out the proof which demonstrates that the Pythagoream Theorem is true, but I don't find myself doubting that it is.

Bill - One hopes they're thinking about benching M.Young for Franco in September, but that is probably too much to hope for.

I'm not sure that there's much to say, Bill, beyond that it's the type of thing that clubs which are interested in player development should look into when you've got a handful of games to burn and a potential embarrassment of riches at a particular position.

If there's anything to be read into it beyond organizational due diligence, it's a sign that the Phils think Cody Asche is going to stick at 3B and Ruf at a corner outfield spot.

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