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Thursday, August 15, 2013

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Uncanny strength?

Interesting.

"location has yet to be determined."

Hmm, sounds like a scouting report on the bullpen.

I've finally surpassed Roy Halladay!

Sounds just a average as to keep people worried. Give Cloyd the next start that would have been Lannan's. And mix Pettibone and Martin around through Sept.

Not that anyone cares, but they got Doc off the hook and won the game.

Wins are the most important thing...Production wise.

I wonder if he will be able to throw on 3 days rest in the playoffs. I sure hope so!

http://www.beerleaguer.com/beerleaguer/2013/04/beerleaguer-predictions-utley-sps-lineup.html#comments

Seidman may have gotten 60% of his individual predictions right but I don't think anyone had near the win total correct.

I had 86 wins and the 'over' on 83.5. Just a bit off.

Biggest surprise will be Delmon Young. He will be better than Michael Young.

Posted by: J. Weitzel | Monday, April 01, 2013 at 09:19 AM

Apparently he was starting to get hit around a bit in the last 2 innings, which is where the HR came too and face it, he is basically going against 18 year olds.

Apparently he was starting to get hit around a bit in the last 2 innings, which is where the HR came too...

Posted by: Corn

Move him to the bullpen :-)

If either Papelbon or Adams goes down for an extended stretch, the bullpen is basically screwed again...just like last year.

With both healthy, its a plus...if not, lots of souvenirs will be landing in the stands at CBP.

Posted by: NEPP | Monday, April 01, 2013 at 10:02 AM

Well, I was kinda right...except Pap kinda sucks too.

At least De Fratus is decent and Diekman is dominant against lefties.... oh lord we need some pitching. Bad.

My predictions were pretty far off except this one, which was probably the one that I most believed in:

"Ichiro will do more for the Yankees than Delmon and B.J. Upton do for their respective teams."

Turns out my prediction was actually pretty conservative...

bWAR:
Lee: 4.1
Victorino: 4.0
Brown: 3.4
Utley: 3.2
Hamels: 3.0
***Ichiro: 2.3
Bourn: 1.5
Revere: 0.8
Hamilton: 0.2
D-Yak: -1.2
B.J.: -1.5

I remember saying on a few threads back then that I could see this team winning 95 games as easily as I could see them winning 65.

I never really thought they'd be this bad though.

I had 80-82 for the season.

Obviously, as usual, I was way too optimistic about this team.

I also had a wager with TTI that the Phillies would finish closer to 4th place than 1st place.

As of a few weeks ago, he still refused to accept reality.

JW was obligated by Comcast to support the Delmon Young signing.

Optimistic View on Doc: He's gaining strength and 89mph sounds reasonable having not pitched for 3 months.

Pessimistic View on Doc: Sounds exactly the same as he was pre-surgery, both velocity and control (3BB) wise.

Guessing that Rube's "2 rehab starts" plan might need to be re-visited.

Come on now, its not like he just had major shoulder surgery.

I'm on record as stating that I'd be shocked if he pitched again this year, so I'm actually pleasantly surprised that he's pitched to begin with, results be damned. I don't see why in the hell anyone would want to rush him back. I think you can learn plenty via rehab progress as to how to approach the off season. No need to rush him to MLB and potentially jeopardize his progress. As long as he builds strength, velocity and control, you can tell that in minor league rehab starts. And let's be real here, what upside does he provide to the current 2013 Philadelphia Phillies?

I say let him make as many rehab starts as it takes to determine if/how you want to proceed in the off season.

Doc, Rollins and Howard in the 2014 lineup. That is so funny

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/08/15/mlb-instant-replay-manager-challenges-on-hold/2659555/

Excerpt: The replay will include up to three challenges that mangers will be provided during a game, one in the first six innings, and two beginning in the seventh inning through the game's duration. If a manager is successful with his replay challenge, he will not be charged with a review.

So Fredi Gonzalez won't be able to challenge every damn call. Good to know.

Hey, if Halladay, Howard, and Utley are all healthy, I think we have a solid chance to contend in 2014!

RAJ says: We need Roy,we are still alive,not mathematically eliminated from the play offs.

Their reasoning for going with the NFL way vs. the NHL way is terrible.

Whoa. What's gotten into Tyler Cloyd?

Per Gelb:
Tyler Cloyd has a 1.33 ERA in his last 7 starts (47 1/3 IP, 28 H, 5 BB, 32 K).

WP, did it occur to you that perhaps Halladay is the force driving his rehab and comeback? Maybe he's the one who wants to get back to MLB as quickly as possible - to maybe, just maybe, prove he can retire MLB hitters.

He probably has a few million reasons to do it.

The Ghost of Roy moved from Kendrick to Cloyd, apparently.

Striking out 32 hitters in 47 IP in the minors is not exactly a harbinger of dominance in the majors.

I'm guessing Cloyd is still the same Tyler Cloyd you remember from such past works as "Damn, Tyler Cloyd kind of stinks."

Haha, Jack's pretending someone thinks Cloyd's line is a "harbinger of dominance".

Does dennyb take requests? I really want to read the one where he is aghast that Cloyd isn't on the MLB roster.

Abi Gezunt

Now we're pinning our hopes on an over-the-hill right hander? He was great, but let it go. He's done. He's not the future of this moribund franchise. Get younger! That goes for Chooch, too. One of the three young catchers should get the nod.

Think young (no not Delmon or Michael).

My shoulder is better. I can be ready to pitch twice in a short series come October.

"WP, did it occur to you that perhaps Halladay is the force driving his rehab and comeback?"

Crossed my mind, sure. But Rube's own comments in last night's "GM Show" before the game seemed to pretty much validate my original assumption. Rube is pushing the timeline.

Though, what else has crossed my mind is the exact reason as to why Rube would want to rush back Doc in a lost season. Simply put, I think Doc, particularly on a comeback trail, can sell more tickets at CBP, something that I'm sure the FO is trying to figure out in this cesspool of a 2nd half. I don't think the minor league rehab gate $'s are particularly lucrative...

Reading through that predictions page. Two observations:

1. Weitzel was on fiiiire!

2. Absolutely classic clout. Enters the scene on the second page and utterly derails the thread.

I got this. Next year's rotation....

Criff Ree
Roy Halladay
Pedro Ramirez
Marty Bystrom (bought his contract from PHL 17)
John Lannon

Traded Cole Hamels away, too young, not hungry enough

89 mph is very good for his first start back from surgery. In ST healthy pitchers take weeks to get up to their in-season velocity.

Rube - you DFA'd Delmon, was he not hungry enough?

Wrong kind of hungry.

Psychological observation: I've never been so interested in the Eagles this early in the season...

Repost from end of last thread:

The Doc watch continues. A while back, I opined that they should simply DFA Doc and thank him for his service. But at this point, keeping him in the minors or bringing him back up makes no difference. So, I was concerned that if somehow the Phillies managed to contend, they'd bring Doc back up to ruin said contention. Now? Who gives a fying fluck.

Bring him up. And let him pitch until his heart is content. Any team that offers him more than a split contract with incentives for next season is foolish. At this point, Lannan and Halladay will have about the same value going forward.

Think young (no not Delmon or Michael).

Nice little slogan there. Catchy.

"At this point, Lannan and Halladay will have about the same value going forward."

going to go out on a limb and say that Doc gets more money in 2014 then John Lannan.


Just wanted to let y'all know I'm available. I know I'm 64 years old, but I bet I can still out-hit the stiffs in this lineup!

Now that both Laynce and Delmon refused assignment, they could jointly market themselves as a ready made platoon. Maybe some other team that relies on 7 year old scouting reports will bite.

Lorecore: I have no doubt someone will pay Doc more than Lannan. That has nothing to do with value, which neither will have any of.

Yeah, I fully expect Rube to pony up a ridiculous offer for Halladay. And at this point, I'm pretty sure I'd rather have him offer that to Haren.

I sure don't see the harm in trying to gauge whether or not some sort of investment in Doc (hopefully of the short, incentive laden contract variety) is in order. I question as to why that assessment needs to come via being rushed back to MLB. I think you can learn an awful lot about Doc by tracking his progression through several minor league rehab starts. That said, I do agree that the structure of the contract for whomever employs Doc next season needs to be incentive laden.

I hate the Doc is in a rush to "prove himself" and RAJ is in a rush to find some reason to get his team back on the fans' radar for the rest of the season, and to get some sort of additional value out of his initial investment in Doc. A perfect storm is brewing for a bad ending to this season for Halladay.

Ask Ryan Howard how well it works to rush back. At least then they had a pennant to use as an excuse to do so.

Is Halladay "rushing" back? He was injured on May 5th, had surgery May 15th, it was reported he would be able to start a throwing program 6-8 weeks later. If he makes it back to the majors in late August, it will be 15 weeks since his surgery.

Halladay has not been rushed back, and no offer has been tendered to him. At this point, the b*tching is typical shouting at the wind stuff from some predictable characters.

Halladay has not been rushed back, certainly, Ice. But Rube saying he'd likely only need two rehab starts is plain silly. There is no reason for Halladay to do anything but work back slowly. Rube will definitely try to overpay him no matter how he pitches. So, no need to rush.

Exactly what are we doing here if we can't speculate on the future moves of our fearless leader? Of course we can spend all day dissecting his past moves. But some of us stick our necks out and try to predict the future. And in the future, I see Rube pushing Doc back earlier than he should, and then making a much too generous offer to retain his services.

And I hope I'm wrong on both counts, although I don't think it will matter any more than Wells vs. Mayberry in the long run. Which is to say not at all.

My commentary regarding "rushing back" is in relation to the comments Rube has made several times (and has been subsequently reported by all beat reporters) relating to him only needing 2 rehab starts. I think today's performance substantiates that he may need more time rehabbing. Not a thing wrong with that. Any b*tching I have is related to how Rube is handling the rehab, not necessarily Doc's timeline itself.

@injuryexpert: Scout at Halladay's rehab game says "he's ready now. They fixed whatever was wrong." Went six at A-ball.

The Phillies are out of it. I'm pretty sure Halladay throws the ball the same whether it's GCL or the MLB. What's the difference if he is up here or down there. Who cares. Ugh.

This is high comedy...

Gelb: Amaro says Halladay was “not as crisp” as he wanted. He will make at least one more rehab start.

"At this point, the b*tching is typical shouting at the wind stuff from some predictable characters."


Ice, exactly. The guy hasn't thrown one MLB pitch yet, only had one rehab start, and topped at 89 MPH on the gun.

But I guess those same predictable characters think he won't or can't improve from that.

My opinion? Let's wait and see.

But I have to comment now! I have to let the internet people see how right I am! Now and forever!

Amaro then took the mound, and demonstrated a devastating cutter, and a crisp 12 to 6 curveball.

Topping out at 89mph seems good for his first time out. If he starts topping out in the 90s after a few outings I'll be intrigued.

If he's sitting 85-86, its going to be a least a few more weeks before he's back up to 89-90 where he needs to be at a minimum.

I'd bet on at least 2 more rehab starts...possibly 3.

There's also probably a bit of a mental block against throwing all out too...just like there'd be after any major injury/surgery. A big part of his velocity gain might just be mental and being able to trust that his shoulder is healthy.

If Halladay isn't throwing 89-91 in the next rehab outing, I'm really gonna start getting worried about our playoff chances this year...

The solution to all our problems:

jeff schuler ‏@jschulermc 10m

RT @railriderstt: Lefty Mike Zagurski is no longer with RailRiders. Exercised the opt-out in his contract and becomes a free agent.

Is the GCL team that good? Are they going to the post-season, cyclic?

Thanks again for the shoutout Ice.

Cloyd's got really good numbers at Lehigh in the past 2 months, don't he?

Do you think it makes more sense to have 87 year old guy in Valdes in the bullpen, who will be out of baseball as soon as this season ends, or someone like Cloyd who actually MIGHT be able to help as a bullpen/long man in 2014?

For a team going NOWHERE, I think the answer is a pretty easy one. Cloyd's future in the majors (if he has one) is as a long man/6th starter. He's actually done 'OK' in that role for the big club already. So why exactly is he still in Allentown in the middle of August when the big league team has won about 3 games in the past 3 weeks?

In the grand scheme, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. But its kinda the way this organization has been run lately. And all of those "little" moves that are made wrong all start to add up and multiply, don't they? Which leads to a terrible team, which this certainly is.

JP Crawford triple crown MVP

When does it become apparent that Halladay is at the end of the road? I'll give him a couple more starts to see if he can get his stuff back. But he's been a 90 MPH guy for a while now and the long ball has been hurting him for a while now too. Those two issues seem to have crept up again today. Those aren't good signs. Can he become a touch-and-feel changeup/curveball starter? Maybe. But he's not being paid to be that sort of guy. He's being paid to be Roy Halladay circa 2006 or 2009. Not Kyle Kendrick or Mike Leake or Jake Westbrook. He can still win that way, but it will be much harder. And the injuries will likely continue as well.

Sometimes for pitchers, it all goes away quickly. Sometimes, its much more gradual. I think Papelbon's slide has been more gradual. Halladay's seems more sudden.

One thing though...when the slide starts its doesn't stop. Which is why it might have made a little bit of sense to deal Cliff Lee when you could. He could be in Halladay's boat this time next year.

Let's see where Papelbon is at Age 36 before we say its been more gradual.

Ugh. I still want to know what is at the root cause of why the Phils have been so inept at handling injuries.

My bet here is Halladay is dead set on getting back as fast as possible and I can't blame him. The problem is that the Phils' FO has to be willing to be a bit more firm with him. Guys like Halladay always want to be out there but sometimes a FO/manager has to willing to say an athlete (even a star) that he is going to hurt himself and team if he comes back a bit prematurely.

Lefty Mike Zagurski is no longer with RailRiders. Can't exercise. Derailed train.

denny b - Yeah I'm in the 'see it when I believe it camp with Halladay' at this point.

He still might be a serviceable starter and even a good one if he has good command and control at 88-89 on his cutter/sinker. Just didn't last year or this year when he tried to throw that hard.

No reason to rush to bash the front office for something that may or may not happen. At least, that's how I see it.

Because why rush him? If he can get 18 year olds out consistently, he can get major leaguers out too. What?

One thing is certain in this entire debate. No matter when he comes back, he cannot possibly hurt this team. How do you hurt a team that died weeks ago?

I say bring him up and have him pitch on short rest. You know, like they did with Lannan so they wouldn't have to pay Cloyd a major league salary for one day.

http://ajilbab.com/jake/jake-and-the-neverland-pirates-invitation-printable-party-invitation.htm

He'll be back when he's back. Nothing to stress about.

Test

Test

Test

There we go...now dont do that again.

"When does it become apparent that Halladay is at the end of the road? I'll give him a couple more starts to see if he can get his stuff back. But he's been a 90 MPH guy for a while now and the long ball has been hurting him for a while now too. Those two issues seem to have crept up again today. Those aren't good signs. Can he become a touch-and-feel changeup/curveball starter? Maybe. But he's not being paid to be that sort of guy. He's being paid to be Roy Halladay circa 2006 or 2009. Not Kyle Kendrick or Mike Leake or Jake Westbrook. He can still win that way, but it will be much harder. And the injuries will likely continue as well."

This entire paragraph is batsh*t crazy. First of all, Halladay in 2014 is not going to be paid to pitch like hall-of-famer-in-his-prime Roy Halladay. Everyone is doing backflips to criticize some crazy contract that hasn't even been discussed internally yet, more than likely. I loathe Amaro as much as most, at this point, but the criticism of something that hasn't happened yet is just dumb. Look at the contract he just gave Utley. He is fully capable of a reasonable deal for an older player with injury concerns.

Also, I love this: "When does it become apparent that Halladay is at the end of the road?"

Maybe it will become apparent when he's more than one start into a rehab after shoulder surgery? Just a thought. It might take him a little time.

I do agree with denny on one thing: if they keep Halladay in 2014 and it ends up costing a stud like Tyler Cloyd a spot on the roster, that would be a massive mistake.

Slow night.

Depending on how well Doc looks in his final month of starts, he'll probably get something like 1 year, $10 million for 2014...or something similar to what Dan Haren got this year.

If Doc's goal is to win a WS, will he really want to come back here on a 1-year deal?

I don't know that a team coming of a 70-win season is your best option for one last shot at a ring.

That might not be his goal. He might just want to finish his career in Philly because he likes living here or his wife does or his kids, etc etc. Or he simply doesnt want to move again until he retires or a million other reasons.

He's seemingly stated a strong desire to stay in Philly regardless of our WS chances.

I also had a wager with TTI that the Phillies would finish closer to 4th place than 1st place.

As of a few weeks ago, he still refused to accept reality.


____________________________________________

The first sentence is true. The second sentence is a typical example of JTroll having his head far far far up his a$$.

For those keeping score he made a comment on July 6th about the Phillies being closer to fourth than first and what did I think about the bet. My response was, "I think it is July 6th." Since then of course the wheels have fallen off.

denny b: If you're impressed with Cloyd at LV this season, you must have been totally knocked out with him at LV last season when he was much better.

As long as Doc has his uncanny strength, he'll be fine.

Newly crowned NYPL HR Derby champ Zach Green goes deep for his 11th tonight, extending his league lead. Up to .867 OPS on the year.

ramsey - Kind of thinking the same thing. If Halladay is serious about winning a ring, wouldn't he sign a 1-year deal with say the Dodgers or Braves or Cards this offseason?

"Depending on how well Doc looks in his final month of starts, he'll probably get something like 1 year, $10 million for 2014...or something similar to what Dan Haren got this year."

Pretty huge caveat there. He can't even handle GCL hitters.

staying down in Williamsport, scouts are consistently clocking Lino under 1.9 seconds to 2B, which would put him close to top 5 in the MLB.

If you could read a little closer Clout, you would have seen that I said that I have been impressed with Cloyd THE PAST 2 MONTHS at Lehigh.

He's been really good in his last 7 starts there.

He pitched pretty well in Philly earlier this year too.

He should be in the pen as the long-man. He may not be much, but he's better then Valdes and Miner. Two guys who will be gone as soon as the season ends.

Watched 42 tonight & some of the Eagles; back to real baseball tomorrow.

Funny thing , the Phillies fared no better in 42 than they have this year on the field.
So much for a breather from feeling bad about baseball in my home town.

Also, I love this: "When does it become apparent that Halladay is at the end of the road?"

Maybe it will become apparent when he's more than one start into a rehab after shoulder surgery? Just a thought. It might take him a little time.


I guess his below average ERA in the mid 4's last year, plays no part in the evaluation of Doc either, huh Ice?

Coupled with his awful starts earlier in the year, when he couldn't get anyone out and the drop in velocity and injury issues and his age (not many starters in baseball older then him and probably none who have thrown as many innings as he has in his career) and its not exactly bat-feces crazy to think he's at the end of the line.

But you are right...lets give him a couple more starts in the minors before we make any judgments from what we have seen from him for the better part of a year. And then if he gets a few outs in September against AAA lineups in New York or Miami, then open up the vault and give him a 10-15 million dollar contract for next year because...well that's what the Phils do best...overpay old players and wish they still performed like they used to when they actually would have deserved the money they were getting. And then not be able to compete when half of them inevitably break down and you are left with rookies and guys who have been DFA'd by multiple teams to try and slug it out with the Braves and Nats.

Mark Reynolds has agreed to a deal with the New York Yankees, general manager Brian Cashman confirmed Thursday.

So now we get to watch Michael Young for the rest of the season. Maybe we can resign him for 2-3 more years, too.

You sure showed him, Mr. Amaro. Way to call his bluff.

I always thought mark Reynolds was way too horrible at defense to play in the majors, but Michael young proved me wrong.

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