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Sunday, August 25, 2013


... don't expect Casper Wells to be available again.

Best not take any chances. The Phillies should release him. Preferably into a big cats exhibit at the nearest wildlife preserve or zoological park.

Rooting for Doc. Go, Phillies!

Well, that was an auspicious beginning.

I hope Doc can at least throw strikes even if he gets pounded. We don't have a lot of pitchers available right now.

Halladay looks sharp.


sharp like a spork

He's missing his spot by quite a bit on almost every pitch. This does not look like Roy Halladay.

Would love to be there in person today to welcome Doc back.

Roy has yet to touch 90.

2nd hitter, 1 run.

The Moyer comparison makes no sense if this is going to be Roy Halladay's command going forward.

That last curve was pretty nice, but if that pitch doesn't come back for him consistently, it's all over.

Doc's already exceeded my admittedly low expectations. It didn't take many pitches to get out of the 1st. And he didn't walk anyone. Not bad.

People do realize that no pitcher two rehab starts after shoulder surgery should be facing MLB hitters, right? Just so we're all on the same page there. He isn't going to look good today.

88-89 is fine with good control and secondary pitches.

Does this Halladay fellow have good control and secondary pitches?

Doc's already exceeded my admittedly low expectations.

Agreed. Ethan Martin set a challenging standard, but Halladay stepped up admirably. Martin available out of the pen today?

Two on for the clean-up hitter!

"People do realize that no pitcher two rehab starts after shoulder surgery should be facing MLB hitters, right?"

So, when can we expect him to look good? I need to know so I know which game to watch in order to determine whether we should re-sign him for next year.

Nice. Ruf!!!

BAP- haven't you already made that decision? You've lectured us since May on how It would be a mistake.

Well, this is fun! Run support for Doc!

Ruf & Asche: an unfortunate skin condition? No! It's the heart of the offense!

The kids are alright!

So...Dom. Achilles soreness. I'd baby it. I don't want a repeat of Ryan Howard.

Mayberry's always up to be the one to end a big inning.

Iceman: I have indeed. But others, including you (if I recall correctly), have advocated that we re-sign him if he looks good over the rest of the season -- which would amount to a grand total of like 6 starts. Now you've gone and eliminated some of those 6 starts. Since this evaluation period is so important as to out-weigh two full years of evidence, I'm just wondering when it actually begins & how many starts it entails.

My lady has Corbin on her fantasy team, so this may likely be the only action I'll see all day.

So ... Dom. Achilles soreness. I'd baby it. I don't want a repeat of Ryan Howard.

Meh. Just pump it full of cortisone. I'm sure he'll be fine.

ha @ sdphillie

BAP- yeah, I'm not going to play this game. You know damn well what has been argued in the past. No one expected him to be called up this early, and no one is eliminating any starts or moving the goalposts.

If you expected him to be ready two rehab starts after shoulder surgery, you're a fool. It's that simple.

His curve has no bite to it at all. I happen to think that his command and everything else stands to get somewhat better with more starts, but if that curve is no longer a plus pitch for him, I don't see how he can get MLB hitters out. That's something the people in the front office have to look at going forward- not necessarily the velocity everyone is obsessing over.

Iceman: I did not expect him to be ready after 2 rehab starts. I'm just saying: if one takes the position that we should re-sign Halladay if he looks good in his final X starts, one has to assign a value to X. And the smaller that value is, the more ridiculous the argument becomes (no matter how true it may be that you can't expect him to look good after just 2 rehab starts).

The Phillies have to lead the league in making good pitchers throw 30 pitches in the first and then letting them string together a bunch of 10-pitch innings and get through 7 innings anyway.

Assuming Dom's Achilles just needs a few days R&R, we might just get an Utley/Chooch/Brown/Ruf/Asche top half of the order. Which actually might just be able to pose a threat to opposing pitchers.

Which, with how the Phils work, would be a roaring success and then never built upon next year.

Yeah, T-Mac, Halladay does look a whole lot better than his last start, when he allowed 9 earned runs & 2 walks in 2 innings. Sheesh. This guy is easily impressed.

I actually think the curveball looks fine. I'm more concerned about the fastball command, although it has been better the last few innings, and as Iceman notes, this start really ought to be happening in Reading.

what a catch!

Way to go, Bernadina!

3 year extension waiting for bernadina in the dugout!

So Bernadina's not 100% useless after all. Just 99%.

BAP- if it will make you happy, I thought three starts would be enough to tell if he could get major league hitters out or not. Given that the contract would be incentive-based to begin with, I don't think it would be a huge risk to give a deal to a former Cy Young winner that looked much better after shoulder surgery- and getting MLB hitters out consistently would be much better than what they saw from him in April-May.

If at the end of the year he hasn't been able to put together 2-3 starts where he looks like a better pitcher, then no, they shouldn't sign him. I don't think anyone has argued that.

I wonder how crazy Revere would of made that play look if he was out there.

One potential win in an otherwise lost season is not worth being saddled w/ Bernadina in '14.

that really was a beautiful catch...didn't rush at all, knew exactly where he was, timed it perfectly

I don't think it's too soon to say that Bernadina is a lock for the 2014 roster, after yesterday and today. Amaro thinks he got a steal.

It's a shame Doc and JC weren't pitching in the same place they could have driven a rented Dodge Avenger together to the park from Reading or something.

Any lineup the next two years that doesn't have Ruf hitting 4th/5th against a LHP is a poorly constructed lineup. He squares up everything against them.

Any lineup the next two years that doesn't have Ruf hitting 4th/5th against a LHP is a poorly constructed lineup. He squares up everything against them.
Posted by: Iceman | Sunday, August 25, 2013 at 02:35 PM

Why are you such a douchebag? Stop stealing my sh7t.

I take it as a bad sign when Doc argues with the umps. He used to ask them about things but looked perfectly calm. When he started looking irritated was when he started struggling. Usually pitchers let questionable calls roll off of them. Or that's my perception, anyway.

Iceman, exactly!.

Wheels? Sod off.

If you plan to use Ben Revere as the everyday CF next year and not make a run at Ellsbury or Granderson, there're worse things you can do than tender Bernadina and use him as the 4th OF instead of Mayberry next year.

As, for starters, he's a competent defender in CF. And he's got a much better nickname.

Doc's already in mid-season form in whining at ump about the strike zone.

I agree that Ruf should be hitting clean-up but at least it does give the lineup more balance so the bottom half isn't so horrible. Gives him more chances to have someone on too.

Missed the catch but I think Bernadina can still be a 4th/5th OF next year.

Jumms, ideally, you'd want both Mayberry and Bernadina. They're both versatile™ enough to play all three OF positions, and they hit from opposite sides of the plate.

Therefore, if a decision needs to be made, it would probably be a choice between Mayberry and Wells.

Unless they can find someone else.

Everything that TMac has said about Halladay today when trying to analyze his peformance has been completely and utterly useless.

DH- I've liked a few of his curves, but he needs to be able to snap it off consistently if his velocity is going to sit at 88-89. I agree that the fastball command is a bigger problem. Despite what TMac says, he has not commanded both sides of the plate.

I think that's more likely to come back than his curve, but hopefully they both come back.

Tike for RFD to do what he's supposed to do: mash a LHP.


OKAY Mayberry!

Well Jake and Iceman agree, so nobody else needs to discuss it.

Mayberry saw Wells' performance last night and knew he had to step it up today, or risk being DFA'ed.

Iceman, LOL!

Nice call, awh!

More run support for Doc. Good on Mayberry!

Thanks GBrett, but I think my "call" was of the blind squirrel/nut variety. :)

If the Phillies were in contention I'd be thrilled w/ Bernadina's catch, & Mayberry's HR. But w/ the team 13 games under .500 & in desperate need of upgrading almost across the board, this stuff just makes me sick. I fear we're doomed to see mediocrity after mediocrity continue to be rewarded for their mediocrity, now & forever.

Mayberry and Bernadina absolutely can be your 4th/5th OFs if you are contending team. If they have to start for a long period of time is where you can get in trouble. If this team is healthy I really don't see why they don't have a good chance next year.

Halladay is at 68 pitches.

I think he's on a 100-pitch count, no?

Assuming he can go 6 innings, who's available in the pen?

Clearly Mayberry heard Awh, and wanted to provide evidence in support of tendering both himself and Bernadina.

Certainly wouldn't cost much to tender both of them, as neither's really put up a season worthy of a raise.

" If they have to start for a long period of time is where you can get in trouble."

Jake, yes, and true of ANY bench player.

If they could step in and provide MLB type production, they wouldn't BE bench players I the first place.

GTown - I don't see how any fan can't be excited about their team doing well.

Those two are ML-quality, just not ML starters. If others are healthy, they won't be starting for us.

awh - Don't feed the troll

Bernadina has a .679 career OPS against RHP. That is not my idea of a LH bench bat.

bap, sure, he's not a great bat. So, that begs the question of...

if not Bernadina, then who?

Mind you, I'm not being a Bernadina advocate, just trying to understand which alternative would be an upgrade.

"GTown - I don't see how any fan can't be excited about their team doing well."

Jake- think about who you're talking to here. The guy has been rooting against most Phillies players and executives as long as he's been here.

I believe Bernadina, Wells and Mayberry should be rendered not tendered. Ah, just like the good old days on the farm.

awh - Not necessarily. Some young prospects start out as bench pieces.

awh: I'm not going to sit here and list all the LH backup outfielders in baseball who would help the Phillies more than Roger Bernadina. But there are a hell of a lot of them -- especially since we already have a backup centerfielder.

Just checked in to read some comments, checking out now. Any "Jake" posting from here on, is the incoherent, sexually-confused, name-changing troll.

Iceman - I just get annoyed at the fair-weather fans who only root for/watch the team when they're good.

Before I go; I find it interesting that the name-changing troll is constantly defending lorecore, and when troll is signed into an impostor typepad account, lorecore is mysteriously absent from the thread.

In BAP's vein, let's assume that the Phils decide to play smallball for 2014 and don't make a big move in the off-season for the outfield, content to run out there Brown/Revere/Ruf with Bernadina and Mayberry as bench pieces. That'd leave us with a bench of:
--Bernadina as the 4th OF/pinch runner/late-inning defensive replacement for Ruf/Dom.
--Mayberry as 4.5th OF/RHB bench bat
--Back-up SS [currently filled by Mini-Mac]
--Utility IF/filler [currently filled by Frandsen]
--Backup C [currently filled by Frandsen]

As BAP's right, you really do need a LHB bench bat, which means that you're probably looking at having to carry a 6th OF to fill that role while using Galvis at the backup SS. Alternatively, you could cut loose Mayberry, find someone to do the job Laynce Nix and Nate Schierholtz were fighting over, and retain Frandsen as the RHB bench bat. I suspect it'd make more sense to do the latter. (Or also cut Frandsen loose in favor of the RHB super-sub platoon bat of your choice.)

Lorecore is the bomb digging. I am gay.

I meant the bomb diggity.

Well Halladay has exceeded my expectations (and I would think most here, too). He hasn't looked "good," and I hope this start doesn't factor in toward Amaro's decision to resign him, but I'm pleasantly surprised he made it this far.

Jake - I find it interesting that you think anyone cares.

Somehow Halladay is getting out but he looks eerily similar to the guy last year. 86-88 with a erratic curve and missing his spots with his cutter. Sinker has been down most of the day so that has helped.

DBacks has have some hittable pitches over the plate though they just haven't done much with.

Phils desperately needed at least 5 IP out of Halladay today and he gave them 6 IP.

Just hope that he didn't push himself too far, too soon today.

"Mayberry and Bernadina absolutely can be your 4th/5th OFs if you are contending team"

No they can't.

MG: Agreed.

I'm not going to quibble with results, other than to say that if Bernadina hadn't made that catch, Doc would have given up 4 runs. But he's gone deeper in the game than I expected. I thought he'd have enough trouble with command that he'd walk more players and only get through 4, maybe 5, innings before getting to 90 pitches. I thought he'd give up 4 runs minimum.

Not bad for a rehab start.

I think a better lineup would have chased Doc today. He didn't look great.

But the results were there, which means no re-used twitter jokes getting posted ad nauseam throughout the game from GTown. So that's a huge plus.

MG: As a point of clarification, I was referring to your 3.15PM post. But I agree w/ your 3.18PM post as well.

If Doc is done, can what's left of our BP hold a 4 run lead?

Well, Frandsen just got a willing favor from Corbin. As that was an incredibly ugly swing.

Sil: I think we already kNOw the answer to that question.

I guess Sandberg's going for the death blow.

Doc actually looked better than I expected him to but, then again, I was expecting a full-scale disaster. If nothing else, he did better than Raul Valdes (the other starting option) would have likely done.

... & he might have gotten it. Good on Utley.

Curious to see if Halladay shows any progress over the next month with his command especially with his cutter.

When he was getting pounded earlier this year, he was trying to get a little more velocity (and I imagine pitch through pain) on the cutter & in the process often leaving it up and over the plate at 88-89 MPH.

Agree with what Iceman said earlier this this thread about Halladay's curve. That's a pitch that he has really leaned on the last 2 years and it simply wasn't that godo today. If his curve continues to be that erratic, he's going to have a tough time sticking as a MLB starter.

More interested to see how his curve looks the rest of the year and the location on his cutter/sinker. Also interested to see if he starts mixing in that split-change that Dubee taught him a bit more too. Pitch he has rarely used since '11 and I think he threw 1-2 today that I saw.

That's something I'm not sure Cholly would have done: PH Utley in the 6th with a lead, as the first PH.

I really like that decision from sandberg to send Utley up there, and still would have liked it if he struck out.

He decided having Utley against a tiring LH starter was better than burning his 2nd catcher against a RHP coming out of the pen. Also figure that Utley is more likely to at least plate one run by making contact.

I haven't loved everything Sandberg has done so far, but I do like his flexibility in certain situations. That's something the team hasn't seen in a while.

It was still nice to see this lineup unexpectedly jump on Corbin today.

Corbin has been a notably weaker starter on the road this year (been nearly unhittable at home) but this has been Corbin's worst outing of the year by far. Didn't see that with the ragtag lineup.

Say what you will about Cholly getting fired and how it was handled but this I do think you have seen a team play with a bit more 'get up and go' since he was let go.

Unik: Cholly would have pinch hit with McDonald or Wells. He invariably emptied the bench in reverse order of ability -- no matter what the game situation. Sandberg has done some goofy things when it comes to lineup construction, but the game management has improved dramatically since his arrival.

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