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« Kendrick takes hill, Howard to DL, Ruf called up | Main | Game 89: Phils aim for important series win vs. Braves »

Saturday, July 06, 2013

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I just read an article said the Dodgers' next target is Chase Utley. Pack it up and wait for 2017.

Lake Fred deprived me of last post status on the previous thread.

Sat down to watch tonight's game and it was 7-1. Didn't see much worth seeing after that. Savery, Aumont and Diekman, oh my!

Though I did watch with moderate interest. As expected, lots of poor location. Some cookies. Lots of base runners.

Hugh, I enjoyed your observation of Cholly mostly being by himself throughout the game. You should repost it in this thread.

Charlie may be officially entering Lame Duck Chuck status.

Manuel's been in de facto lame duck status since at least October 2012.

Here you go Fred - Random observations. Sat on the Phils dugout for Thursday's win. Seats were behind the furthest dugout entrance from the plate, near the coach's box. Manuel, of course, stood at the rail toward the opposite end. I sit in these seats for 1-3 Phillies' visits to PNC per year. I saw a total of 2 people speak to Manuel the entire game. Not typical. Samuel spoke to him briefly, early. Manuel made a half-assed visit to teh HP ump over the ball that bounced fair for an out at the plate. Dom Brown had a long discussion with him in like the 6th. Thought that was a good sign but, seemed like Manuel was on an island in the dugout more than I've ever seen him on previous visits.

- I guess it was 3 people. I can't confirm that Manuel actual spoke to the ump, though. Seemed like he said 'whuth'fukdjasee?' under his breath and craned his ear to hear the response.

Thanks, Hugh. BLers won't find this info gem on the mainstream news outlets.

How can a team possibly win when the Manager is disengaged?

Got to wonder if Kendrick's mild concussion factored into his poor performance tonight.

I hope Ruf does well now that he has his chance. I like the kid. But, if anyone thinks Ruf is the answer, they are asking the wrong question.

"But, if anyone thinks Ruf is the answer, they are asking the wrong question."


I don't know if he is "the answer" or "the question" or "the paragraph" or whatever.

All I know, is I think the kid can hit. You can't teach bat speed and hand-eye coordination. And he's got a lot of both.

Let him play. He'll hit if he gets an extended run. And that's what this team needs...real hitters who aren't past their prime.

Instead of having to think about learning to play the outfield, Ruf gets to play his natural position of 1B, which can only help his offense.

Two thoughts on Howie's DL. If MYoung stays in the 5 hole, Revere will lead off, where he belongs. If Ruf impresses enough, he can kick DYak out of the lineup when Howie returns.

Team does not look fully engaged. They know its over

Michael Young at 3B is officially a joke. That was one of the worst played games at any position I have ever witnessed. From my vantage point at CBP, his reaction times on five balls hit tonight were absurdly slow.

It's pretty easy to weed out the WIP callers on this site. Anyone that says the team needs more of guys like Ruf is a typical WIP caller.

Another nice showing from the young studs in the bullpen tonight. Future's bright on that area of the team.

Sell sell sell anyone not named Hamels or Brown.

the phils have some very talented prospects that will be ready in 2015-2017. They need to add more. They will have plenty of money then to round things out in free agency / via trades. They will have a new head coach and please god a new GM. This team will be a legit contender then, 2015 onward.

Or, they could stand pat and reduce the potential talent pool in 2015.


Sandberg and the youth movement 2014-BOOK IT

Iceman - Do you even read what people post before pouncing on them? He just said Ruf can hit and I think he can too at the MLB level well enough to stick.

The problem is Ruf is a part-time 1B/DH who should sit against certain RHP starters on an NL team with an incumbent 1B who is going nowhere any time soon.

Trading M. Young tomorrow would be the best thing for this club right now and next year. Hopefully you get an interesting prospect who has a small chance at breaking out at the MLB level and a low level arm at low A/rookie ball.

Starts Frandsen at 3B and either call up Fields or Galvis to take M. Young's place. Phils really don't a hit competitively, it allows them to dump a little salary, and hopefully the Phils get a player down the road who helps them next year or in '15.

Phils aren't going to have a 'youth movement' next year due to the simple facts:

1. They don't have a single young position player who is ready to set in and start next year. Franco needs more time at AA/AAA, Galvis is a utility infielder because of his pitiful plate discipline, Asche is a AAAA type like Cody Ransom, and Ruf has no position to play and can't start everyday in LF.

2. They already have a ton of salary committed to several veteran players next year.

3. Phils still haven't finalized their TV contract.

4. This FO loves to hold on to their older stars and have done so repeatedly during their ownership tenure.

MG- yeah, he said the team needs more players like Darin Ruf. You apparently agree. I think you're both dumb for thinking that. Agree to disagree?

Iceman - Is that what any post in this thread has said that this team needs more players like Darin Ruf?

You do this all the time - take an argument and completely blow it out of proportion to what somebody said or create an artificial extension of what somebody posted and berate/belittle their point without that person actually having made it.

Show me where somebody on this thread said the Phils 'need more players like Darin Ruf.'

MG: Do you even read people's posts? Whoo Hoo at 12:09 posted this about Ruf:

I don't know if he is "the answer" or "the question" or "the paragraph" or whatever.

All I know, is I think the kid can hit. You can't teach bat speed and hand-eye coordination. And he's got a lot of both.

Let him play. He'll hit if he gets an extended run. And that's what this team needs...real hitters who aren't past their prime.

So yes- the clear point he said is- this team needs more hitters (players) like Ruf. I mean if you are gonna split hairs about the hitter/player label fine but that is the exact dumb semantical nonsense you pull on here.

Basically what was said that that a poster thinks Ruf will hit over an extended stretch and this team needs younger hitters.

That's all. Didn't specify how well or what kind of overall player/value Ruf will have.

Still think Ruf can be a useful player on an AL roster with a decent manager. Don't think he has a long shelf life at the MLB level, will struggle to hit RHP especially those with decent offspeed stuff, and isn't going to be a masher. Doesn't mean he can't give value to a team either at $400-$500k either.

Kind of like Mayberry. Mayberry is a flawed and limited player but he still has clear value on a MLB roster because of some of the things he does do well or can do. His low price tag though is what is key to him having some value.

TTI chiding someone over semantica nonsense? Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.

Speaking of KK:

Uggla crushed a changeup from KK out last night and KK's changeup was up all last night.

As his changeup has fallen off a bit as the season has progressed, his splits vs RHB have crept back up closer to his career norms & his overall numbers have headed south a bit.

I would love to see a scatter plot of KK's changeup location in April vs say the last 6 weeks.

The Phillies officially have an oft-injured, very expesnive, LH 1B that needs a platoon partner.

Darin Ruf is a RHB who plays 1B, is pre-arb for the rest of Howard's contract, and has power potential. He also is 26 and doesn't require "everyday AB" to develop.

Is there a more obvious puzzle piece than Darin Ruf?

Posted several times as Texas fans said,get used to just out of the reach of MY. Seems now even the ones he reaches are not becoming outs.
Grilli's numbers at LHV were ignored,seems the same is true of Fields.


I would make the commitment to keep Ruf up this year and get him a decent number of AB's. Gotta find out if this guy is a major leaguer or not.

Should they move MY, I would only bring Asche up to play and not to ride the pines. Rather see Fransden play and bring Galvis back for depth at third.

I sat in section 142 tonight, with a good view of all of the grounders hit to Young. If one wanted to be charitable, Young made three errors tonight. A hard marker could call it four. The derisive cheer he received when he actually fielded a grounder after booting back-to-back balls was one of the evening's loudest.

To look in the box score and see he was credited what zero errors makes me want to reconsider my confidence in my own identity permanence, since I must not have been in the place I thought I was last night.

You see? Now I'm having even "last night" and "tonight" issues.

DAMN YOU, MYOUNG!

(repost actually accounts for the inconsistency)

MG going pot kettle on someone is like the pot calling the kettle black after the pot called the other kettle black.

MG: You could just admit that Whoo Hoo was putting forward the Phillies could use more players like Ruf instead of trying to split hairs and misspell words like crazy.

But you are always good at doubling down on your BS arguments.

what's the basis for concluding Asche is only a AAA/AAAA player?

I wonder if the Red Sox still want Michael Young "badly" after last night's horror show.

The Pirates appear to have demonstrated - and yes, there's still time for a Bucco's collapse - the one guaranteed method for attaining a young, highly-competative team with many players' salaries under control, and a manageable overall payroll: lose badly for about 16 - 18 years, and hoard first round picks. Oh yea, also discharge every stinking veteran and long-term contract (except Bonilla's). Once that's done, make sure you r8pe and pillage the Phils' farm system for an All Star closer, and you're set.

I can honestly see at least 8 - 12 years of baseball worse than this year if r00b the boob stays at the helm. All he's ever been good at is cutting large checks at the behest of the limited partnership. As far as r00b's talent evaluation skills go - and hence his GM skills - I refer to Danny Ozark's evaluation for the ages of the inimitable Roger Freed: "His limitations were limitless".

Where's Moses? This team's in the desert, and there's no way out.

@Jr.:

I'd been torn over whether, if Howard went to the DL, they should reach for Ruf or Fields first. And while there was a seventy-point difference between Ruf's OPS and Fields', it's because Ruf had a flukey May. As his ~.750 OPS for the season is the result of having a >.800 OPS April and June, which sandwiched a ~.620 OPS May. (As he's now on the big club, MiLB.com has taken down his stat sheet, so I can't get the precise figures.) Fields, meanwhile, started out hot in April (.965 OPS) but has been cooling off in May (.842) and June (.788), while starting off July 1-11.

With Ruf out-OPSing Fields in June and the ability to write off May as being one of those weird, bad months all players have from time-to-time, I think that's how the team chose him.

juums: I think you are investigating too deeply here. Ruf has been penciled into the next call up once a 1B or corner OF went down.

Outside an unforeseen rash of injuries, Josh Fields could have a 1.000 OPS and he won't see the light of CBP.

Just Brandon Moss and Jason Grilli in years past. For some reason the Phillies love to take fliers on guys just for the fun of it. If those fliers actually perform well, they just ignore, release them, or allow them to opt out.

Thought it was said Asche would be more like a Dobbs type of player?

Juums- baseball reference ya idiot

Juums is up on BR his ops thingy is .752 dont forget to he had a problem with his wrist or something.

Moss in LHV: .275/.368/.509 23 HR in 506 PA
Grilli in LHV: 1.93 ERA 1.163 WHIP 43K in 32.1 IP.

Moves made over Moss: Ben Francisco, John Bowker, Ross Gload, Pete Orr

Moves made over Grilli: Mike Zagurksi, Drew Carpenter, Danys Baez, Scott Mathieson, Joe Savery, Juan Perez, Michael Schwimer

lorecore - you saved me the trouble of looking up the list of guys given a chance ahead of Grilli. Made no sense, esp. with his opt-out.

And now it's a guy like Laynce Nix keeping Josh Fields and Jermaine Mitchell from ever seeing time.

I will never pretend that I thought Moss or Grilli would go on to be big time contributors, nor do I think Fields or Mitchell would be either if given the chance.

But what I did think was that John Bowker, Mike Zagurski, Drew Carpenter, Laynce Nix, etc all have sucked and would continue to suck - so the moves should still have been made.

I agree with calling up Ruf over Fields, but lorecore is on to something here: what the hell is the point of taking a flier on a veteran cast-off if you refuse to follow up by giving that veteran cast-off a chance at the major league level if he performs well at AAA? We've seen this pattern over & over again -- not just with Moss and Fields, but also with Frandsen & Kratz. Frandsen hit .300+ over 740 AAA PAs in 2011 & 2012, but it required injuries to both Utley & Galvis, and failures by Orrr, Mini-Mart, and Fontenot before he got a shot. And Kratz put up multiple consecutive AAA seasons of .800+ OPS, while Brian Schneider was hitting .196 over his last 2 Phillies seasons, yet it required an injury to Schneider in order for Kratz to get a shot (and, even then, there were several times when they called up Sardinha instead). And, when Frandsen and Kratz finally got their shots, lo and behold, they helped the team -- just like Grilli & Moss.

Hopefully this beat down serves as the start of selling off pcs. I would love to see the team trade away MY, chase, and Ruiz. Hell throw in paps to. As fr the free agent class next year. I think a OF is a must if a pc can be secured in a trade. IE jacoby E or something line that. Maybe move revere to left and have brown in right. Then sign salty as a catcher next year. Switch hitter who loves hitting in this park. Then plug in platoons at third and second. Asche/frand and Cesar and frand. Hope Howard gets his surgery and see what happens there. Cory hart maybe? Nelson Cruz would be perfect but the crap he's in no go. So team needs tweak but not a blow up and they could be in hunt next year.

Laynce Nix's persistence on the big club's roster I still attribute primarily to his guaranteed contract. Which is ridiculous, given that the $2MM he's owed is a pittance by MLB standards, let alone by the standards of a team with a nine-digit payroll.

I'm still perplexed by the Phils letting Moss walk after the 2011 season, given that they knew they were going to have a gaping hole at 1B come Opening Day 2012 and no real inclination to spend money to plug it given Howard's contract.

I don't think Asche will be an all star at third, but he surely can play the position at the MLB level. I don't understand why he all of a sudden is a AAAA type. What is the basis behind that?

Wow, Medlen at -135 this afternoon. That's pretty unencouraging.

On the plus side: Pettibone is probably not suffering from the symptoms of a recent concussion.

no lineups yet, very unusual.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb 6m
Sunday Funday: Revere 8, Rollins 6, Utley 4, Brown 7, Young 5, Young 9, Ruf 3, Ruiz 2, Pettibone 1

TTI - Yeah he said they could use more young positional players and he thought Ruf could hit given a chance.

It was a fairly generic comment that you and Iceman pounced all over on him for no reason.

juums: "I'm still perplexed by the Phils letting Moss walk after the 2011 season, given that they knew they were going to have a gaping hole at 1B come Opening Day 2012"

You just lacked the creativity and genius of Ruben Amaro Jr. You saw a gaping hole, but he saw a perfect opportunity to trade for Ty Wiggington.

Ty Wiggington just needed to "be better". Not Amaro's fault.

    ...what the hell is the point of taking a flier on a veteran cast-off if you refuse to follow up by giving that veteran cast-off a chance at the major league level if he performs well at AAA? We've seen this pattern over & over again -- not just with Moss and Fields, but also with Frandsen & Kratz...

    Posted by: bay_area_phan | Sunday, July 07, 2013 at 11:43 AM

Hence my remark about Amaro, Jr. If he has no authority on personnel decisions, he should resign, immediately and seek work where his opinions count. If what we've seen since the first Lee trade are all his doings, "...his limitations are limitless".

With apologies to William Shakespeare: "O Moses, Moses! wherefore art thou Moses?" Get us out of this damn desert!

I think it is a little more complicated than simply trading and casting off. Key considerations include the return we would get for any player(s) and also the projected loss of fan support (revenue) if we do too much too quickly, Miami-esque style.

lorecore -- but it is Amaro's fault. He's responsible; ostensibly he has the final say on talent evaluation. Wiggington was/is the perfect example of "some guy" getting his shot. And having practically no impact.

Ruben Amaro's statement on Howard I interpreted as this. Howard do better your making me look like a effing fool. You are the biggest reason why my job is in jeopardy.

The timing on Rube' comment on Howard been put on DList is intriguing.

*and Howard been put on the disabled list..

cut: hah i know, i was being sarcastic, that's why i quoted "be better", Amaro's famous words about limited players playing to their known limitation unbeknownst to Amaro.

lorecore -- Now I get it -- I'm a bit slow today. I just started a 1-week shore vacation. Last night's game was such a bitter pill.

Summer vacations were the best when the Phillies were in first or right in the mix. Now, for the Phils, not so much. Yuck.

Time to enjoy life with the family. And drink a little beer...

What's up, thanks for all the users, I will add many more video clips in future days, admin

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