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Saturday, July 27, 2013

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Hopefully this is rock bottom. Mercy!

"Steve Susdorf made his major-league debut and was hitless in two at-bats"

He PH into a double play in his first Major League AB @ StL the other night.

Time to give it up, Rube

@Bubba: You're right, thanks for the catch. I corrected it.

At least they're finally putting together a streak of consistent baseball.

***repost***

    Seriously, that is the dumbest single thing I've read in weeks.
    Posted by: NEPP | Saturday, July 27, 2013 at 09:50 PM
    Dumber than the idea that the Phils should emulate the Marlins?

    Posted by: Chris in VT | Saturday, July 27, 2013 at 10:19 PM

Chris. Seriously, how flipping dense are you? The losses accrued under the Amaro regime will happen for years. It's my guess not less than 4. God willing, we accumulate draft picks. Since you like to flip people off, you're the man.

As a secondary issue, what do you suppose that the Phillies should do with their self -induced train wreck? Sign more old plow horses and pray Ryan Howard hits 58? Again?

Geesh.

I can only chortle darkly in disbelief at how bad this team is.

Convert Hernandez to a SS. Trade Papel, M. Young, Delmon, Rollins. Call up Asche now. Call up another OF.

I saw that game, what a load o crap.Jimmy Ring was squeezed by that homeplate ump all day.

It's kind of disconcerting to finish a game tonight with zero Phillies starting players on the field and "look forward" to a Jonathan Pettibone start tomorrow.

Feels like a win?

Pettibone will keep us in it tomorrow I predict. However, the offense and bullpen will not.

I hope they can finally release D.Young before he steals more incentive cash from them, not sure if he has any "dont be fat, just stay alive" collection incentives left.

I am old enough to remember some breathtakingly bad Phillies teams, but I must confess that tonight's lineup rivals the worst of the worst. This lineup should be etched in platinum and posted in a conspicuous place in the ballpark. When Phils fans in years to come complain about the lineup of the day, they can look at tonight's lineup posted on the wall, and perhaps it will serve to remind them of how bad things can get.

Yeah, they should definitely try and do this all over again next year.

This has just been so much fun.

This was just an old-fashioned beat down.

Valdes was actually more effective in his spot start last year (June 27th vs Pirates) where he went 2 IP, 3 ER but that lineup featured a ton of mediocre/terrible players including J. Harrison at SS, Tabata in RF, McKenry at C, and two guys not even in MLB anymore (Sutton in LF; McGehee at 1B).

Cabrera returned tonight and this Tigers' lineup bludgeoned him and his 'straight as an arrow fastball' and hanging slider.

It is amazing though how year after year though the Phils just get beat up in Interleague play. They are 7-12 after tonight including a woeful 2-7 on the road vs AL teams (0-2 vs Tigers, 1-1 vs Red Sox, 1-2 vs Twins, 0-2 vs Indians).

Phils had the worst NL record in Interleague play coming into the year with only the Pirates having a worse record. Pirates are 12-5 this year in Interleague play although there was a pretty decent gap between the Phils and the Pirates.

D. Young's 'Production' has been 0 HRs and 4 RBIs this month and he hasn't HRed since June 26th.

Amaro talked about his being a power hitter (which I didn't understand at all) and he is on pace to hit 11 HRs in nearly 400 ABs. Weak power production because the averages has been 30.4 ABs/HR in RF this year. Young is on a 36.3 ABs/HR pace.

I would rather perform a self-root canal with no anesthesia using a craftsman drill than watch another game like this.

Good thing is that Sunday is the last Interleague game and the last game of the year where the Phils have to DH D. Young

He was an impressive 6-31 (.194) coming into tonight as the DH and 1 HR and 2 RBIs and took another 0fer tonight (0-3).

D. Young continued to hustle and exerted effort. It is really on the FO for 'inserting a square peg into a round hole' with D. Young.

As a bench-player who generally only started vs LHP, he can be useful at the MLB level especially if he is a DH. Just isn't a good-enough hitter vs RHP to begin to overcome his shoddy defense in RF and lack of speed on the basepaths.

Watching the Phillies, it feels like 1988.

As a bench-player who generally only ..., he can be useful at the MLB level... Just isn't a good-enough hitter ...

MG- Problem is we have about 10 players on our active roster who should be competing for the 25th spot.

Lee out tonight is RAJ letting us know Lee will be gone soon.

I called a family member earlier this evening. He said he was going to the Riversharks game to watch real baseball. I thought that was pretty funny, but this is what is has come to.

Whatever you want to call, rebuilding, re-tooling. I hope it's done correctly and quickly. Good night everyone.

Lee being out tonight tells us absolutely nothing.

You don't usually create an injury for a guy you're trying to trade.

The Phillies are an epically bad franchise. I am sure there have been much worse lineups than the one which included possible HOFs Rollins and Utley.
Ruf still has been on base every game he's started on his way to a HOF career.

Valdes had some great starts in AAA but today was yuck. Maybe Phillies will bring back Cloyd if/when Lee is traded. Fun.

I hope those prospects Phillies will be getting back are better than the set of 'Lee Guys'.


I love that the rumor mill had the Phils and Rangers discussing a deal for Michael Young at 1 PM, and by this evening it was shot down by the Rangers saying they had absolutely no interest.

Considering the source for the original scoop was Jayson Stark, I wonder who put it out there? Gee, if only there were a team that would benefit from pretending there was a market for Young, and also happened to have a reporter like Stark who lives in that city and relies on sources within the organization. Anyone know of a team like that?

Feel like I just time traveled back to the late 90's.

It's almost like Ruiz is invisible and you no longer hear all that happy talk about how awesome he is to work with for the pitchers. No happy talk about anything.

time for some juju. break out the black jerseys. and wear your sox high. can't hurt. and it would look very cool.

People lie to reporters unless it fits MG's argument. Doesn't surprise me. MG being hypocritical in an argument has a line of -200 from the oddsmakers.

Glad my fiancée's family reunion has been this weekend so I haven't had to watch the Phillies get mauled by the Tigers.

I would rather sit on a nudist beach next to Rosie O'Donnel spread eagle than watch another game like this.

Jake. Rock bottom?

For a team with McDonald AND Martinez AND Valdes on it at the same time? Whose best hitters are aging quickly?

This could be a puddle compared to the Mariana Trench to come.


Worst Part about this is they appear to have no plan for the next 4 days up to the trade deadline. If it's obvious they are selling whatever value the players have is dwindling.

Valdes just didn't care enough. Must be Hamels' influence.

limoguy: Chooch is having a career-worst season, offensively and defensively. Kinda makes me wonder if Adderall actually does impact baseball skills.

In the previous thread, aksmith suggested that Chooch, D. Young or M. Young could be traded for a top prospect.

I asked him to name one and he was silent. Jack, who also can't name one, then asked me to name an undervalued MLB player or slow developing minor leaguer with MLB experience who might be traded for one of those guys.

There are tons of them of course, but I'll limit myself to the Yankees since they've been most often mentioned as a potential trading partner: Austin Romine.

Good defensive catcher, plagued by injuries past 2 seasons. His bat hasn't developed the way scouts projected and that's soured the Yankees on him. Stalled development is not uncommon for catchers.

I'd rather get him than the A Ball lottery tickets that Jack and others are suggesting.

Unless Ruiz has been taking adderal and getting away with it for the last 5 years up until last season, I find it hard to believe that without it he becomes such a terrible player. I could be convinced that it gave him some type of edge in 2012, but his 2013 numbers are just so far off anything he's ever done well.

After all of the happy talk about trading for top prospects, it appears that we have little if anything of value to other teams. Even with Lee the money owed him would mean a modest return in talent. If you were scratching your head after the Pence and Vic trades, get ready for more of the same.

Austin Romaine is a 24 yr old prospect with barely 100 mlb PA. Clout wants to trade Carlos Ruiz for a prospect - what a freaking pain in the ass. You whine for months how dumb ppl are for advocating trading for prospects, only to reveal that your answer is to do the same. Your pathetic.

Clout: First off, I have never once used this phrase (nor suggested a player who fits the phrase) "A ball lottery ticket." Nor have I ever disagreed with you on the value of young MLB players--I would happily take one back. I am all about getting the most value back for any player possible. The difference is, unlike you, I don't see any value in holding on to Michael Young. You apparently would be perfectly happy seeing him finish out the season here and then leaving for nothing.

Second, the Yankees will not trade Austin Romine for Michael Young.

Third, Romine has a whopping total of 111 PAs in the majors, which is basically the same as Darin Ruf, among others. Romine still has his rookie eligibility, which technically makes him still a prospect. Not exactly what I was imagining you coming up with. In fact, he fits more the profile of what I would want in a trade than what I figured you were talking about.

Troll (Internet)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

Jack: Then you haven't been reading my posts or are purposely distorting them.

I've been pretty clear on what I'd look for: Undervalued major leaguers; slow-developing prospects with MLB experience; and use money to sign international players. This is about the third time I've posted that same list. It couldn't be any clearer. Romine fits the second category perfectly.

Perhaps where we differ is that you want Young gone, period, because it will make you feel better. I want Young traded for something of value.

lorecorn: I guess you don't read my posts either.

Romine is not an A ball prospect.

Clout: So now your distinction is just between prospects in A ball and prospects in AA/AAA? Fascinating. Your theory is falling apart before our eyes.

Anyway, of course we all want "something of value." But let's say the choice was simply an A-ball lottery ticket or keeping Young for the rest of the season when his contract expires.

What would you do?

I guess Clout was fine with trading Jonathan Singleton in the Hunter Pence deal, since he was only in A-ball at the time, and everyone knows that means he was just an "A-ball lottery ticket" of no value.

I only have tix for 6 more home games and 1 on the road I have to drive to DC for. I am beginning to miss ties, socks and giant nonfiction books I have no plans to read as family gifts.

I remember so vividly when Hunter Pence was plucked from RF in the middle of an Astros game. It was poignant to see him hug his teammates and then disappear en route to Philadelphia.

I wonder if the next few Phils games will bring any such drama.

Sad Guy - I understand bonsai is fun.

Well. Relatively speaking.

The idea tht Lee could only get back a modest return because of his contract is patently idiotic.

The Phillies could offer to pick up 10 a year on tht and get back more players because a contending team would be getting an ace pitcher for 3 years, 15 per...teams would jump at that chance

Lee should get back a huge return at this point in the season. Someone who wants to win it all should be willing to shell out two or three top prospects. At least one from the upper levels.

Of course, Rube will get three guys who had their first sniff of A+.

If you don't press the self destruct button after that abortion of a game, when do you press it? I thankfully missed it and stopped checking the score when it was it was 5-0. Amaro has to have seen all he needs to see at this point. Time to nuke it.

Jack: You're being a troll again. Singleton was one of the top prospects in the Phillies system. He was anything but an A ball lottery ticket.

Amaro missed the game. he was on the phone trying to give away players. No takers.

If the Phils want a good return for Lee, they must eat a substantial amount of his salary. Rather than a package of good prospects, I'd prefer just one ready or near-ready elite position prospect. That means Profar, Taveras, or Bogaerts.

Jr is a troll as well everyone. A babbling goofball too.

That's why a lower paid and somewhat controlled Kendrick is much more marketable now. He has very impressive numbers since the middle of last season, and could bring back good value.

If you leave out the off topic stuff in jr's "troll" definition, at one time or another, at least 80% of us regular posters on BL are trolls. We all post stuff that upsets somebody. I'm sure that if Cholly, Rube, or Yak read BL they'd be pretty upset.

Last night's game was definitely a troll. It got me upset. At least I have been desensitized by all of these loses as I am now devoid of emotions about it. Its all part of Rube's grand plan to get us to lose our emotional attachments to his players, so he can get rid of them all.

Lee would be the prize of the trade market, its not even close. Yes, certain teams would need some salary help, but that would just adjust the package in return.

KK is more marketable than Lee right now?


We have a new contender for dumbest comment on Beerleaguer.

TTI - Do you believe Cliff Lee has a sore neck? I'm not sure, but it's possible. Also, the guy has given up 7 HRs in his last 2 outings.

When Lee's huge back-loaded contract and his age are taken into consideration, it's entirely possible Kendrick might generate more interest than Clifton.

Here are some boldface lies told to the media:

I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.

Ruben Amaro, Jr.s phone is broken.

This site is full of TROLLS. Can't having discussions anymore like it used to be. I guess losing and having to support this $hitty baseball team will do that to us.

Please. Kendrick would not generate more interest than Lee.

Now, I think it's right that if you wanted a team to take on all of Lee's contract, you may get less in return than, say, the Cubs got for Garza or the White Sox will get for Peavy.

But, two points. First, you would still get more for Lee than for Kendrick. Second, if you were willing to pick up some of the money for Lee in the future, you would get the best prospect haul of anyone at the deadline.

Rube will hurry up and ship out young. I'm ready to go. Free me

Nate Schierholtz now hitting .281/.340/.536 on the season, and is likely to bring a higher return at the deadline than anyone on the Phils other than Lee, if they trade him.

Ruben Amaro, Jr., ladies and gentlemen.

TTI:
Thanks, since your opinion means nothing to me. If you had any business sense, you'd understand another team could very well prefer to take a KK-level pitcher and pay him X money than Cliff Lee and pay him 2X. And Amaro could get players back instead of having to give salary relief, which may be more valuable to his team.

But please keep the insults coming, because we're not here for reasonable discussion.

A term the local radio sports jocks always talk about is the phrase "difference maker." That's what teams are looking for at this time of the season. Cliff Lee is one. KK is not.

Cut: he may have a stiff neck but he still commands a high price. A GM may pass on Lee because he gave up 7 home runs in his last two starts but that person would be a terrible GM. They would also agree with your fellow Mensa poster MR.

Let me make this very clear- any GM who would take Kendrick over Lee- even with the money is a compete dope. If KK goes and Lee stays it is because they wanted to keep Lee not indicative of either ones value.

Wait, I thought Ruben was looking for a reliever and a outfielder to win a pennant for us. Difference makers apparently come in all guises.

I understand what MR is saying - KK could certainly appeal to some teams more than Lee. But those teams are freely admitting that they either dont have or dont want to give up the talent required to obtain Lee. Not sure you can call that more 'marketable' or not - but it could be true that moving KK might be easier than Lee.

by the way, our superduper brand new and improved Kyle Kendrick has a 96 ERA+, compared to his career 97 ERA+.

So know Lee was lying about why he wanted the no-trade clause in his contract and the reason he gave because previously he has found out we was dealt via TV?

The Phils could work out a deal with the Red Sox or Yanks or even the Rangers. If Lee isn't satisfied and doesn't want to go, he can simply say 'No' and the deal is off.

What is so hard to grasp about that simple fact and what the no-trade clause is in place for? It is to give the player final say on where he goes, not the team.

I know MG doesn't believe what he is saying. He's simply trying to cling to his dumb argument.

If any deal comes together, it will be because Lee said he'd accept a trade to a certain place. This isn't rocket science.

Per b-ref the Phillies pitching has the 4th lowest LD% against, but the 2nd highest BABIP.

Would love to see that by position...going to go out on a limb and say that the BABIP at 3B is probably 90% of the reason why.

Conversation on this thread has gotten ridiculous.

Of course KK is easier to move. Taking on his salary isn't an issue for a team, he doesn't have a no-trade clause, and his asking price is a lot lower.

It would be for a team looking to upgrade one of the last spots in the rotation kind of like deal the O's made for Feldman (Arrieta and Strop). KK probably gets a bit more than Feldman since he is under control next year.

I wouldn't mind Amaro making that kind of deal for KK especially for MLB-ready/players who are younger & under control for a few years but have some question marks. It was what clout suggested yesterday and I agree.

Thanks, lorecore. Yes, I meant more easily traded because of more potential buyers, that's all.

Nice use of Mensa, TTI. Sorry I missed the meeting last week.

MG: "If Lee isn't satisfied and doesn't want to go, he can simply say 'No' and the deal is off."

No one is arguing that. His "satisfaction" however isn't purely destination. Going back to Texas might require some extra incentives for him, something that could complicate the trade, but not ruin it.

I'm pretty sure you've explained this exact scenario to other posters in the past - so I might have to agree with Iceman that you are simply pretending otherwise in this instance to cling onto a previous agenda item.

lorecore - I suspected as much - he did seem to be trending downward. He's 4-4, 4.73 in his last 10. I suppose that kills most interest at the deadline. Regardless, at least he's cheap.

Too bad for Kendrick. He's got to make his way back to the guy who could occasionally dominate, and always gave a quality start. Otherwise, he's not likely to generate hardly any interest at all, especially in terms of a big dollar long-term contract.

Best OPS in MLB Since ASB:

Nate Schierholtz: 1.384

lorecore - It's no 'agenda item.' Lee has given his rationale on why he wanted the no-trade clause because what previously occurred and stated in a Philadelphia magazine article this spring how settled his family has become in Rittenhouse Square.

Imagine that uprooting his 2 young kids is the big issue especially for his son Jaxon who has been getting follow up visits at CHOP to ensure his leukemia stays in remission after originally getting treated at Arkansas Children's Hospital in Little Rock.

Cliff Lee is also from Little Rock and I imagine that is why he doesn't have the Cardinals on his no-trade list.

Going to a competitive team is likely important for him and a chance to win a ring but I would bet his son's care and uprooting his family yet again are even bigger concerns.

Here's r00b making an imaginary deal on his imaginary phone:

Of course KK would be easier to trade than Lee. But you get a lot less in return. A lot more teams can afford a #4 or #5 starter because that's exactly what he is. Not a #3. He's only in the #3 slot because Doc is hurt.

Let's not confuse KK with Clifton here.

A big WFC ring in that photo. He won't be getting another one.....ever.

MG: I don't debate anything you said - as long you admit that if one of the 21 teams on his no-trade list gave the Phillies what they wanted, then they'd find a way to satisfy Lee to accept a trade.

Let's be very clear about this: if the Phils are not willing to eat any of Lee's salary, the difference between the return on Lee and the return on Kendrick will not be so great.

He should be on the phone with the O's trying to trade Delmon. O's desperately need a DH. Raj could get 2 A ball prospects with no upside instead of just 1.

MG has derailed in Delusionalville

I wouldn't blame Jr. For letting Scherholtz go, I'd blame the Mgr. he puts the team on the field. Ruben gets the players but Mgr. and coaches decide which players to keep.

Derek: If thats the case, why haven't we heard any team pursue Kendrick the way we've heard teams would Lee?

Darin Ruf needed a whole lot less performance than Dom to get himself promoted to cleanup! Who says the future is not bright?

fljerry: So you believe Charlie told Ruben that Schierholtz isn't worth keeping, and thats why he was let go?

I can't say that did or didn't happen, but it goes against everything I've ever read/heard about the job responsibilities of an MLB manager and a MLB GM.

ted: Rud debuts in the cleanup spot on his birthday.

Ruf had one of two hits yesterday, so he's got that going for him, which is nice.

lorecore - They could promise Lee a ton of stuff including the biggest one of picking up his option but I bet there would be a couple of places (especially Boston given his negative experiences including his wife) that he wouldn't go regardless.

Two teams that aren't on his no-trade list, that are contenders, and have the prospects to make a deal work are the Braves and Cardinals.

It is not that I doubt any if you guys, just where is the broken phone story. I have to read that crap. If any GM above Indy league doesn't have three phones and VOIP and three assistants manning fax machines, telexes, blackberries, whatever....they need to get the f out.
I think Rube is just afraid to "get off the pot".
This whole trade deadline BS and way the team is playing makes me want to get tanked up and call out of work.

lorecore - Maybe because Lee is a much better pitcher. What I said above has nothing to do with who is the better pitcher. It has to do with how the economics of baseball has changed the way teams do trades.

Lorcore
You believe Rube without Charlie's approval gets rid of players? Schierholtz did not in Charlies opinion make the team in spring training.

Clout - Again, not what I said at all. In fact, maybe all that Chooch, D.Young or M. Young could get you is an A ball lottery ticket. However, keeping them is pretty worthless at this point, no matter what they bring back. And Chooch is the only one who stands a chance at coming back anyway. But for Utley, Papelbon and Lee and Rollins, you'd have to be getting back a very good prospect or prospects. So, no A ball lottery tickets and no role players.

Oh, and it's not that I was silent in response to your brilliance. It was actually me having a life and leaving my computer while enjoying a visit with my granddaughter and some out of town family on the Strip. And there was an added benefit, I basically have watched no Phillies baseball in days. Winning! Duh.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the previous thread, aksmith suggested that Chooch, D. Young or M. Young could be traded for a top prospect.

I asked him to name one and he was silent.

Maybe this is the proper statement: Charlie played Schierholz against a lot of lefthanded pitchers, who owned him, thus making it look like he wasn't a useful piece. Because Charlie don't so platoons. In fact, I hear he has refused to see the movie Platoon because he is opposed to the word.

yo, new thread!

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