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Wednesday, July 31, 2013

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If anyone at BL is reading this, maybe you can ban the fake username troll.

UC saying he'd play Asche in the outfield just boggles the fvcking mind. I'm sure he'll do fine out there though given the ZERO innings he's ever played in the outfield probably going back to little league. I'm sure that won't mess him up at the plate at all.

I repeat, What the heck is the point of playing Asche in the OF?

I may come off as a Manuel apologist, but this makes zero freaking sense.

Asche in the OF? Perfect. He has played exactly 0 games in the OF in his career. What could go wrong?

Reposting Jayson Stark's tweet that there is one yet-unannounced trade. Also MYoung at 1B tonight; Chooch not at CBP yet

Doing nothing at the deadline makes little sense to me. There are many ways this team could have gone: tired to contend this year, begin to rebuild, cut salary, trade to restock farm, etc. The one thing that wasn't on my list was status quo.

Disappointing, to say the least.

because we need PADMY out there at 3B obviously.

Well, yeah, he could look bad in the outfield, or he could be capable, and increase his chances of staying in MLB. He doesn't really project much past an average hitter, playing more positions could make him more useful as a utility player.

So Good Guy Charlie, or Scumbag Charlie? Who knows.

i will disallow
any knowledge of this post
i am not posting

This organization is such a mess of incompetence.

I know this, yet they still manage to surprise me.

Asche in the OF? And there are people on this planet that bend over backward to defend Manuel. It is ridiculous.

So...why not just throw M. Young in the outfield then? Its not like playing guys out of position matters anymore. We've got the worst defensive RF in baseball as an everyday starter. We have a garden gnome statue for a 3B, we put a no-hit utility infielder in CF some nights...I mean why even have positions at that point? Just have them draw positions out of a hat each night. It'd likely increase interest in the club anyway. After all, who hasn't always secretly wanted to see Rollins catch or Utley pitch?

Phillies player development/player acquisition favorite strategy:

Take the very limited list of players who actually have some upside in your organization and desperately try to teach them positions that have openings.

Galvis, Ruf, Asche, Hernandez all players who have been asked to play out of position solely because the lack of organizational depth and the seeming entrenchment of popular if declining stars.

Beautifully run organization.

So Andy is the fake username troll? Got it. Sorry lorecore.

The only logical moves are Asche at 3B, Young to 1B, Ruf to LF.

There are questions about Asche's glove and some scouts have suggested he'll end up at 1B, but I think we need to see him at 3B in a pretty good sample size before we draw conclusions. Simply getting Young off 3B and moving him to 1B will improve the INF defense.

NEPP, sure! That way we can bring up our most promising prospects without worrying about the position that best suits them. Promising player? Take a drive down 476 and we'll use you somehow. (And at least it might raise ratings.)

Elmn batting cleanup tonight, vs a RHP. And people wonder why I made such a big deal about the trade deadline. The excitement for this season has officially ended.

There are usually one or two trades that don't get announced until after the deadline.

Are the people complaining about playing guys out of position, the same people that were clamoring for Bogaerts with Asche and Franco already in the system?

Jake.

No.

***There are questions about Asche's glove and some scouts have suggested he'll end up at 1B, but I think we need to see him at 3B in a pretty good sample size before we draw conclusion***

Exactly, so getting M. Young out of the way (and out of UC's ability to put in the lineup) would have been the ideal way to get a good 2 months of everyday reps at 3B for Asche at the MLB level. Instead, thanks to keeping M. Young, we have a senile manager saying he's going to give Asche reps in the outfield with M. Young still starting at 3B.

Good thing we didn't trade M. Young.

It's like Charlie is saying: "Let's see what I can get away with until they fire me. Hell, it's been working for 8 years."

And they still won't do it.

So the next thing worth watching will be the Winter Meetings. Then, spring training.

I forgot what this felt like. I certainly didn't miss the feeling.

Asche projects as a utility man long-term and the Phillies may want to see him in the outfield. Is it so crazy for a team 12 games out of first to experiment with a couple of guys?

Are the people complaining about playing guys out of position, the same people that were clamoring for Bogaerts with Asche and Franco already in the system?

Posted by: Jake | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:14 PM

Ah, so you would have turned down Bogaerts for Lee?

can_of_corn: nope, if you're ratings are down and you need to raise them, you should sign all of the same players to extensions and let them play next year. Phillies know their stuff.

Are the people complaining about playing guys out of position, the same people that were clamoring for Bogaerts with Asche and Franco already in the system?

Posted by: Jake | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:14 PM

Cody Asche: 3B
Maikel Franco: 3B
Xander Bogaerts: SS

One of these is not like the others...

Chris: You're clueless. Hader is much better than that.

Posted by: clout | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:09 PM

Right, with all of 34 games under his belt in A ball and lower, you are absolutely positive that he has a future in MLB, but those of us advocating a trade for a young guy in A ball with some tools were just clamoring to trade him for "nothing."

Got it.

In my day it make a damn bit of difference where you played - you just wanted to play - give me a glove and let me get on the field - stop wimpering about what position you're going to play, and just play. This is THE problem around. Paralysis by analysis. Grab a glove and then then grab a stick and get at it!

NEPP: You can't make trades based on illogical on the field moves. It is unfathomably that Charlie would keep Young at 3B and play Asche in LF.

NEPP - Are you sure, I thought his natural position was 3B?

Let me make sure I have this straight. We've tried Galvis in the OF, Hernandez in the OF, sat Ruf for 1/2 the season at AAA, (while we signed no-talent-a**-clown Delmon Young)and now want to put Asche in the OF. We apparently didn't trade MYoung for anything at the deadline.

Rube doesn't do "five-year plans." Sure sounds like he doesn't do plans of any sort. Nice shotgun approach to being a GM. I don't think I've gotten angry over more than one or two games this year because I thought this would be how the season went, but now I'm just flat-out p*ssed because he has no f-ing clue what to do or how to fix this sh*tstorm he created. Get him the hell out of there now before this team blows until 2019 and 20K or less are rattling around the Bank. Dope.

DH Phils: Yes, to the extent that the guy has had ONE MLB AB and his bat is what is going to keep him here, not his glove. This kind of stuff hurts development. (See: Brown, Domonic)

Where is CHOOCH????

"Is it so crazy for a team 12 games out of first to experiment with a couple of guys?"

Asche hasn't even played 3B yet in the majors. How about they experiment with that for a bit first?

on the slow boat to St. Louis in exchange for PTBNL.

NEPP - Are you sure, I thought his natural position was 3B?

Posted by: Jake | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:18 PM

100% sure. He's played 347 games in the minors...332 of them have been at SS. They just started giving him starts at 3B in the last few weeks when they were looking to see if he could be a stopgap for them with Middlebrooks and Iglesias scuffling and Iglesias being a far better defensive SS. Now that Iglesias is gone, Bogaerts is their SS of the future.

Yes, Jake, Bogaerts is a SS. There is talk that he might eventually outgrow the position, but it hasn't happened yet.

CHOOOOCH

C Drew Butera to LAD.

ramsey - yeah, no need for him

Ugh DYak lives, and inching his way towards another 150k.

I stand corrected. I thought Bogaerts natural position was 3B.

"so you are ok with 70 wins next year haha.

Posted by: nonamePHame"


noname, funny.

Actually, I would try to build a team next season around string pitching depth.

The rotation?:

Lee
Hamels
KK
Cigar

and.... if Halladay actually pitches again this season and looks good, I'd try to sign him on the cheap.

But, maybe it's just me who thinks pitching and defense wins games.

This team - and now its fans, need to pull off its panties and put on a strap and take the field with fierce vengance and start sweeping some teams and retake that 2nd wildcard slot! Sack-UP!!

Once again, I'll remind everyone of my question from back in January, when some BLers were describing _elm_n's signing as harmless at worst:

What's the over/under on Delmon's appearances in the #3 or #4 lineup slot?

Posted by: ColonelTom | Wednesday, January 23, 2013 at 12:27 PM

For the record, tonight will be _elm_n's 6th appearance in the cleanup slot.

You can't make trades based on illogical on the field moves. It is unfathomably that Charlie would keep Young at 3B and play Asche in LF.

Posted by: clout | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:18 PM

I'm pretty sure UC thought Moneyball was a documentary on how to manage and he has a portrait of Art Howe in his office.

retake that 2nd wildcard slot! Sack-UP!!

Posted by: Ryne Sandberg | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:22 PM

I'm sorry, when did they first take the wildcard slot that they now need to "retake"?

I'm with Sandberg!!!

Neither post at 4:22 is me

I do wonder if Halladay will come back. I'm sure another contender out there would match whatever offer we are willing to give him. Still though, Lee-Hamels-Kendrick-Gonzalez-whatever still sounds like a contending rotation, and thats without the Halladay wildcard.

Sucks the rest of the team will be terrible =(

4:24 - not me again - hey loser, get a life!

If Halladay pitches this season and looks good, he's not coming on the cheap, or at least at the price and years that you probably have in mind. Somebody will go out and take the risk and give him silly money.

Best case scenario is they offer a 1 yr qualifier and get some comp for him. Otherwise, they would be forced to overpay yet again for a guy who seems likely to keep breaking down.

Repost:


"awh - My head hurts. You mean a player can be better than his WAR indicates?"


Jake, I dunno, but he can certainly be better than players on other teams - hence the reason other teams actually make inquiries about said player.

That seems to be lost on some here, though.


So the team of the future...

1B: Darin Ruf
2B: Cesar Hernandez
SS: Freddy Galvis (Until Crawford)
3B: Maikel Franco
LF: Cody Asche
CF: Ben Revere (Until Quinn)
RF: Dom Brown
C: Tommy Joseph

That leaves lots of money to spend on the bullpen!

If Halladay can come back and pitch effectively this season, I'd offer him a 1 year deal for something like 8 mil(max). Hopefully his professed loyalty to the organization would keep him around...but I also wouldn't rely on him as anything other than a 4th starter.

NEPP, that's exactly right. Art Howe wouldn't put Scott Hatteberg in the lineup and play him at first base. So, Billy Beane traded the first baseman Howe insisted on playing. And he told him he'd keep trading anyone Howe put at first instead of Hatteberg. At least, that's how the movie went.

So, Clout, yes you can build a team and make trades based on poor on field decision making. And I think we'd all consider Billy Beane slightly less of a complete Fvcking moron than Rube Jr.

Chris: Read the scouting reports. You were advocating dealing him for a propsect with a "1% chance of helping the team."

Hader much better than that.

Or they could just tell UC he needs to retire and retire now.

Chris - Would you give him a qualifying offer if he looked good? That way if he gets a better offer, you at least get a pick out of the deal?

Not saying he will look good, but if he does, you gotta hedge your bets against him leaving.

I'm out until the fake troll is gone.

I like Jake's strategy on this. I think I'll use it as well....

If I made a post you didn't like, it wasn't me. It was the lifeless loser.

I got killed on BL for suggesting this a month or two ago, but I'll bet Cholly doesn't want to switch Dom back to RF. That would put the wheels in motion for this awful defensive alignment:

1B Ruf
3B MYoung
LF Brown
RF Asche/DYoung platoon

Over/under on how many times we see that alignment the rest of the year?

But, maybe it's just me who thinks pitching and defense wins games.

Posted by: awh | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:22 PM


Let's go by position in the defense that you are proposing:

C Ruiz even
1B Howard/Ruf even
2B Utley +
SS Rollins even
3B Frandsen/Asche -
LF Brown -
CF Revere even (good range, TERRIBLE arm)
RF ???

Seems like a pretty average defense to me. Good Pitching and Good Defense can win game. Just pitching and defense though? not so much.

Unintentionally hilarious tweet from Heyman:

Twins receive ptbnl for butera. Seems reasonable.

************

How can you declare a PTBNL to be reasonable when you have no idea who it is?!?!?

KAS: Elmn's only 27, he's not going anywhere.

NEPP is correct about Bogaerts. Their current SS, Drew, is a FA at season's end and they will not re-sign him.

NEPP --

There is speculation Bogaerts will have to move off shortstop at some point.

Chris - Would you give him a qualifying offer if he looked good? That way if he gets a better offer, you at least get a pick out of the deal?

Not saying he will look good, but if he does, you gotta hedge your bets against him leaving.

Posted by: RedBurb | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:28 PM

Not sure about that. 14 mil is a lot to commit to a guy who has really struggled for 2 seasons and is coming off shoulder surgery...especially when you don't have a whole lot of payroll room to improve a pathetic bullpen, RF, and C situation. And you already have ~65 mil invested in the rotation.

"Chris: You're clueless. Hader is much better than that.

Posted by: clout | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:09 PM"


Yes, yes he is.

He's a movie star:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0352778/?ref_=sr_1


I think a lot of people are missing something important in this positional discussion. Michael Young is just as bad at first base as he is at third. It may be a lower leverage position, but he's really awful there. His range is Howardesque and his scooping ability is poor. Ruf isn't the best at scooping balls in the dirt, but he has pretty good range at first. Something we haven't seen around here in a long time.

JAKE - NO ONE CARES WHICH POSTS ARE AND ARE NOT YOURS. THE REAL AND THE FAKE ARE ALL COMPLETELY WORTHLESS.

FAKE JAKE - KNOCK IT OFF. YOU ARE INCREASING THE VOLUME OF GARBAGE POSTS.

Been reading this site since the very beginning. I think it's time for moderated comments or a log-in system.

Five - not ones you don't like, just not mine

There is speculation Bogaerts will have to move off shortstop at some point.

Posted by: ramsey | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:30 PM

In a few years maybe...but its no guarantee. Its much the same as what they said about Hanley Ramirez when he was a prospect.

Choooch to the Cards for Holiday

Oh, and nobody in the world thinks Asche will end up at first base. If he's not a third baseman, it's likely he ends up selling cars in the Pine Barrens.

clout: whats your MLB% of Hader "helping an MLB team"? I hear he has a low90s FB from a side arm slot with not much else - and a LOOGY role is his only shot. Do you disagree?

Jake,

Just playing around with you.

Lifeless loser - stop trolling Jake.

Chris - Yeah I understand that. Just seeing if he comes back and is Doc of old (most likely won't be) a QO could be in the cards.

Ricky Botallico said the Phils made a deal, not yet announced. Anyone else hear that?

"Like," "+1," whatever to everything Mike just said

Disappointing deadline :/

Ricky Botallico said the Phils made a deal, not yet announced. Anyone else hear that?

Posted by: D Pat | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:36 PM

Interesting...I wonder if its Chooch.

If so, maybe they signed Shoppach to play ou the season?

@Aksmith:

Franco's certainly the guy you expect to end up at 1B in the event he doesn't stick at 3B. As at least his bat will play there, though that also eradicates most of his value, as his offensive upside isn't that good.

I know, prior to the call-up, some scouts wanted to see Asche try his hand at 2B and C. Be curious to see if they really do experiment with that next year if the Phils make other plans for 3B in the off-season.

D. Pat, I'm listening to Ricky Bo as well, and my understanding is that there is at least one MLB deal not announced. However, last I heard it was not named as a Phils deal specifically.

Smitty, FWIW, Beane is STILL the GM in OAK and Howe ain't managing anywhere.

Chris - Yeah I understand that. Just seeing if he comes back and is Doc of old (most likely won't be) a QO could be in the cards.

Posted by: RedBurb | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:34 PM

If he looks like the 2010/2011 version of Doc in September? I guess you'd have to at least think about a QO. But wow, what a gamble...

Rickey Bo said the Phils did in fact make a deal?


Phils trade DYak to Eagles for Riley Cooper?

Man I'm all messed up. The supposedly fake Jake seems a lot more like my Jake than the supposedly real Jake. The supposedly real one says he's given up on the team, the supposedly fake one says we still may have a run in us. I think it is way to early to give up. Help me Jake. Please.

Must be money involved in the deal if it hasn't cleared the league office yet.

When did real Jake give up on the team?

Real Jake + Fake Jake = 0

Headline of the 2013 Trade Deadline:

Bud traded for Hoes

"Real" Jake said he gave up during the St.L. series. I hope that is really fake Jake.

Pat Gallen has been tweeting Amaro quotes. Boy, he loves the word Production.

@magelb: Cliff Lee taking some vicious hacks in BP. Would be surprised if neck forced him to miss another start.

Wow, that healed up quickly, didn't it?

Lee would be in Boston right now if they didn't pull off that heist of Peavy.

Headline of the 2013 Trade Deadline:

Bud traded for Hoes

Posted by: TNA | Wednesday, July 31, 2013 at 04:44 PM


Also known as "How I spent my Alabama summer vacation."

One net positive of the trade deadline: The prospects the Phillies have in the system stayed there.

Pat Gallen ‏

Amaro- we're about production. Chase still one of the best, most productive players in the game. Not sure he's a guy you can replace at 2b

D Pat desperately hoping M. young was somehow still dealt as his "source" tipped him off to hours ago. Time for a better fake source D Patrone.

Production.

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