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Friday, July 12, 2013


CWS Lineup by OPS+:

111 (21 PA)

So so terrible. I love how Beckham is .342/.363/.443 and hits 8th every time while no one from 1-7 has had an ops near him all year. They also make the Phillies look like Barry Bonds in terms of taking walks.

This game will be heavy on the first half of the alphabet.

Iceman's doing exactly what he constantly accuses everyone else of doing: twisting himself into pretzels to try to distinguish his own inconsistent statements. So saying that he was "throwing in the towel" on the season was not the same as saying, "We should trade now." And he's not saying we should trade now even though he's saying that he'd trade Utley & Chooch & Papelbon right now if the right deal were offered. And, through it all, he still manages to feel justified in scolding others who take exactly the same positions.

I've got the extra-large jar of KY, and if the 'Bone wins tonight, I'm using it all, baby!

BAP: Yeah, I caught that too. Great post by Ted in the last thread to expose the hypocrisy.

Wait, now fake clout feels a need to repost when a new thread breaks out? Love that.

BAP- it's not even remotely the same thing, and I'm not going to argue this with you. It's not that complicated to understand.

You, MG and others wanted to trade off pieces in June like they were on fire. I threw in the towel personally, while realizing that, in the real world of non-reactionary fans, it was still the smartest idea to hold off on trading guys like Utley/Ruiz/Young both because you're likely to get more for them if you start a bidding war for their services (especially Utley), and you can't just 'throw in the towel' from a front-office standpoint when you've invested $160 million in the product you put on the field.

And my comment to lorecore that every player would have a price if I were the GM has nothing to do with the idea of having a fire sale. The prices should obviously be very, very high for guys that are key contributors to your team. But no guy is untouchable. Can you comprehend that concept?

The quote that "Ted" (yes, I'm going to assume a random guy named Ted just showed up out of nowhere) posted has nothing to do with what I was saying earlier in the day. I know you know this. Like I said earlier in the day, you say a ton of stupid things, but I don't think you believe many of them.

Even if it's a push, if Frandsen replaces Young at 3b, then at least Frandsen will be replaced by MacDonald/Asche/Galvis late in games we're up, so a small improvement at 3B overall.

Let's say it's a league average defender in RF. Significant improvement.

Signing day deadline 5pm - Wetzler still being negotiated with apparently.

Still waiting for that call-up, Rube!

Fair enough, we may improve defensively. Hopefully we can do so without a drop in offense. Young rarely gives away at-bats and even Elmn has gotten some hits lately.

Then we'll just need a running game. Defense and a running game wins championships.

Agree with the offense concern. I'm on record as wanting Frandsen instead of MYoung, but I do harbor doubts he'll be as solid an offensive contributor playing every day.

iceman: sorry bud, you've lost me, but i'm quite certain this is 'twisting into pretzels' at it's best.

My biggest problem right now is that you think us firesale'ers wanted to trade people for pennies on the dollar because we think they suck. Completely untrue. We specifically said that we would try to trade early since it might create a chance to sell higher, i.e. extra playing time from said player - not just to banish them from Philly in anger.

Iceman: Here's the thing. I actually DO understand the distinction between personally throwing in the towel (which doesn't really mean anything) and advocating that the Phillies start a firesale immediately. But if MG or Jack or I tried to make that distinction about something we'd said in the past, you'd accuse us of lying about what we said or playing lawyer tricks.

You're trying to have it both ways. The prevailing sentiment on Beerleaguer was exactly as you characterize your own sentiments: that this season was hopeless & would/should end up in a firesale. You're trying to twist that to mean, "The FO are morons for not selling immediately," while simultaneously trying to argue that your own similar statements meant something completely different. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Look, what you don't get is that I'm smart and most everyone else here is an idiot.
So when I wanted to throw in the towel, I wanted to do so for the right reasons, and for the Phillies to make the right moves, while everyone else thought we should do it for the wrong reasons and for the Phillies to make the wrong moves.

lorecore- MG, specifically (I haven't gone back to look to see who else) was upset that Amaro wasn't being a 'first mover' like Epstein and selling off pieces immediately. Whether or not you said it, I don't know.

You really can't grasp the concept of not being opposed to trading someone if the price was right, and feeling the need to trade people as quickly as possible even if the return isn't what you want? My position is they should hold out until 7/31 no matter what any of us thinks unless they're completely blown over. It didn't change when I personally 'threw in the towel,' and it hasn't changed now that there's a glimmer of hope.

If you want to claim that there weren't people in here wanting to sell off pieces in June, you're just plain wrong.

Phillies fail to come to a deal with Wetzler, the pitcher from OSU. It's a shame we didn't come to terms with Wetzler or Monda, but this is definitely one of the best drafts the Phillies have had in years.

I can't claim to speak for anybody else, but I would think that the difference between "everybody has a price" and "firesale" would seem to be that pretty much every team adopts the former policy - even when they're winning.

Firesale gives the impression of "everybody must go! Better to get something than nothing at all after the deadline!"

Actually, I don't see this as being a particularly great draft. By not signing Wetzler, they missed out on a key piece. There are literally no impact arms in this draft class. Some nice positional players, but that's it. And while the farm used to be awash in pretty good arms, that is not currently the case.

This was a major misstep by the Phils draft team. Not only do they not sign two of their top ten picks, but it drags out enough that they don't sign more than one of their lottery pick arms outside of the top ten. That is a screwup.

Maybe some other signings will trickle out later, but I don't know if that happens anymore. And the impact is even worse because if they'd just drafted someone in that slot who would have inked an underslot deal, they'd have had more money to spend on their later lottery picks. Now the entire amount allotted to Wexler is subtracted and cannot be used. Just bad.

I would like to leave Galvis down in AAA unless J-Roll goes down. He needs the AB's/playing time down there. For the time been at least.

Ted, please suck my tiny little Louisville slugger. I can't use all my pettiboning energy on Jack and giving him a Truth Injection in his rear.

I can't wait to see clout tonight promoting how well Howard is doing in the face of the Big Donkey's season. Wait, was it that? Howard isn't playing?

Phillibuster- I don't think every GM has the policy that nobody is untouchable. And I'm sure in the real world, it isn't as easy as simply trading a franchise player because a team has offered you its entire farm system. Guys like Mike Trout, Manny Machado, etc. are franchise cornerstone players who ownership would probably not let their GMs deal (Utley once fell into this category).

But I'm not one of those people that believe they shouldn't trade a guy like Lee because you are not likely to get a return of prospects that would match his production down the road. I'm pretty sure those people exist (one of them posting under the name 'clout'), but I could be wrong.

Salisbury reporting on the radio that the game is postponed.

Is this confirmed?

Jake: Yes it is...doubleheader tomorrow at 3 and 8.

On a different note: fake posters are one thing, but can we leave out the using homosexuality as an insult? That is incredibly offensive and just plain idiotic.

lorecore: Why does trading sooner mean a higher price for the players the Phils are dealing? I'd think it would just the opposite. Or do I misunderstand your post?

It would be far more entertaining if the fake posters could post their juvenile "jokes" while replicating the typical tone/style of the regular poster they're impersonating. That would be impressive.

TTI: The poster using my handle is one of the regular posters here who doesn't have the guts or the brains to attack me directly.

What he doesn't realize is he can be prosecuted for what he's doing and a formal complaint can be lodged against Comcast. I suspect if Comcast execs knew of these posts, they'd have a chat with the gutless cretin. But apparently no one runs this web site anymore.

Yeah, I was actually expecting that JW would have "mvptommmyd'd" whomever (multiple?) was making those posts a few weeks back. Then I remembered that JW fell off of the face of the planet...

TTI: It is interesting that it took this long for anyone to object to this slimeball's anti-gay slurs. Wonder how long it would take to see objections to anti-black slurs or anti-women slurs.

Where is Bruntlett's face? JW would have had that up a long time ago.

I cannot change who I am. I love cock.

ah, playing the victim card.

Here we go.
some text

Sorry, would have gotten it up sooner but it was a perfect day for a ride so I was out on my road bike...planned the ride to be back for game time which was a moot point apparently.

Good times.

On a different note: fake posters are one thing, but can we leave out the using homosexuality as an insult? That is incredibly offensive and just plain idiotic.

Posted by: The Truth Injection | Friday, July 12, 2013 at 06:21 PM

This, one million times this. All that shows is that the idiot doing it is likely 15 years old and lives in his parents' basement.

clout - I find the attacks on you by "fake clout" nauseating, and quite frankly libelous and slanderous. I've had it with "fake clout"'s infantile fascination with sodomy. There's no place for gratuitous insults here, let alone the filth that the gutless creep carpet bombs us with.

Honorable posters need to band together and hound Jason Weitzel to get fake clout off the board, and locked out of Comcast. I can state with certainty that "CONTACT WEITZEL" is up and running.

b_a_p -- any legal recourse here for honorable posters? If/when the Phillies take the NL East lead, I want to comment at will with no fear of being subject to this ongoing filth.

Boy, I've been waiting for a while to post on this. Enough is enough.

There was hardy a person on here who wanted a 'firesale' and almost everyone acknowledged the simple fact that the Phils really didn't have a bunch of readily tradeable commodities.

Papelbon has a limited NC clause and 2 more years at $13M on his deal.

Lee has the same but only a ton more money the next 2 years ($25M/year) and a $12.5M buyout looming after that.

Utley has health questions and I would be curious to see what they are getting offers on even on just casual conversations.

Someone like M. Young is an easily tradeable commodity. Ditto Chooch but how much do either one of them really get you given their pending FA.

Yeah I did want Amaro to act as a 'first mover' if he was going to trade some of their secondary pieces first. That's all especially a guy like M. Young. That was the extent of what I said.

As usual, Iceman embellishes it to make a point and said I wanted a 'firesale.'

Never once said I wanted a 'firesale' and in fact said it wasn't going to happen given the sunk cost the Phils have, their impending TV contract status, and Amaro's attempt to hold out against the odds & makes the playoffs this year or face very long odds/lame duck status the final 2 years of his deal.

I miss Bruntlett's unassisted triple plays. And his dingers and runs scored in WS games.

Does this mean tomorrow's 800 game won't be on TV, since FOX will have national coverage?

Don't feed the trolls.

There's very little that can be done to block/censor obnoxious posters. It's an internet chat board, if they want to put a little effort in, they can find ways to keep posting.
And the amount of effort they put in is usually proportional to the uproar they cause. That's why they're doing it in the first place.

In my experience, just ignore them. If no one pays attention they usually lose their motivation.

@rockaintdeadyet: well said

Clout - Re complaints about sexist remarks: A few years ago, I complained privately via email to JW about some remarks and the posts were taken down. Since most posters are guys, I try not to be overly sensitive, but the unrelenting vitriol directed at Heather over the past few years really bothered me.

Yo, new thread

Don't feed the trolls.

Utley sitting again Game 1. I'm a bit surprised but I guess it just means he starts the night cap instead.

I'd take KK at $8M in a second.

19 games, 124.2 IP, 2 CG, 3.75 ERA

Second best pitcher on the team this season.

I really hope Cholly starts his younger guys in both guys today which means Brown in LF, Revere in CF, and Ruf at 1B.

Also like to see Frandsen start the night cap at 3B tonight and see M. Young sit.

Listening to WIP while doign some work and some idiot calling up about Ruf striking out.

Who gives as long as he gets on base. He has 3 BBs in 6 GS and has an OBP of .474

He has an OBP so far in his career of .393. I didn't care if Howard struck out 250 Ks instead of making contact & 'productive outs' as long as he was hitting 40+ HRs and taking his share of BBs.

I can see us in a tight race down the stretch. Where Rube will activate a hobbled Howard, a 75% Halladay and thrust them back into action. Howard will bat .212 SO 45% of the time and Halladay will have a ERA of 6 costing us precious games....Howard will be so slow he'll make D. Young look like a year old Thompson Gazelle.

Wow, a recycled thread. Might be a first.

limoguy: In 2017, when someone is trying to play gotcha with another poster, this thread is going to f#$%-up the time-line.

Definitely a possibility.

White Sox deal away solid LHP reliever Matt Thornton to Red Sox for mid-level 'toolsy prospect' Brandon Jacobs.

Anybody notice Phils playing better since Howard went on DL?

Thornton definitely would have helped this club and been a real upgrade over Diekman/Horst. Red Sox didn't give up anything either of value either.

It's the kind of move I wouldn't mind seeing making at all especially if it is one of the useless 'toolsy' prospects at Reading - Hewitt, Collier, Gillies.

I would bet though the Phils wouldn't have been enamored with picking up the over $2M that Thornton is still due this year.

I heard yesterday that CSN couldn't broadcast the 2nd game because it falls in the exclusive FOX window.

Phils seeme enamored with Diekman though and Dubee seems to really like him especially his ability to strike out guys.

Still think he has no future as a MLB pitcher because he has way too much inconsistency from a command perspective and he gets tattooed by RH bats.

I know it is a small sample but his splits vs RH bats suck:

106 PAs (.308/.406/.473) with 2 HRs and a very poor 16 BB/22 Ks ratio.

Of course, Diekman has faced RH bats 65% of the time this year. Part of that is due to the sheer ineptitude of the middle relievers but part of that is also on Cholly.

Yo, new thread.

MG: Diekman has to be used as a LOOGY. Stretch him beyond that and the opposition has the advantage.

There is no point trading anyone as long as RAJ does the trading.

Howard 2006-2009 HR 198 RBI 572
Howard 2010-2013 HR 89 RBI 323
Enough said although you can go ahead and do WAR and whatever other statistic you want.
And by the way you can do the same with every other one of our heroes. Pretty much the same.

But you could have done this math before the season started.

But yes I know I am wrong because I have pointed this out in the past.

But I have changed my mind I really do not want them to sell because I think the FO is clueless.

We've heard that one before, limoguy.

Other area that has surprised me too is how decent the Phils bench/PH have been so far this year:

PH have a .278/.317/.436 split with 4 HRs and 22 RBIs in 133 ABs.

Basically right in the top 3 in every PH category.

Nix is 10-42 with 2 HRs and 5 RBIs but has struggled very badly in that role since April when he had 6 PHs.

Frandsen is 11-31 with 1 HR and 9 RBIs and has had a great 1st half off the bench for the Phils.

Galvis 1-12
Mayberry 1-8
M. Young 2-5
Howard 1-5
JRoll 3-4
D Young 2-3

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