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Saturday, June 29, 2013


Hey Andy, have the Phillies scored more than ten runs in a game yet?

I want to see fifteen more posts about it.

Wonder how bad the crash will be after this game.

I had a weird dream last night that the Phils' scored 16 runs in a game.

It's amazing how we can dream about things that could never, ever happen.

About time.

Redburb. Really?

half a long season
is all it takes to see some
(holy moly!) runs!

And do we have to find some faults with the Yak in this? (just wondering)

Has anyone checked to see how far up from the bottom this takes us? Like are we now the fifth or sixth worst offensive team?

Are all those people who complained about Delmon Young's offensive prowess going to have to write fifteen posts, too, redburb?

But, yeah, it sure is good to know that we're one game better than that famous 1972 squad. Certainly reassures me about the second half.

Sure. Of course if you're referring to me, I never once proclaimed Donut as an offensive prowess.

Yer missing the point: "offensive prowess" was ironic. So now, by even referring to him as "donut" instead of the "God-Incarnate of Runs Batted In" you will have to write you're own fifteen posts.

Where was I?

Oh yes: clearly Hitting Season simply took longer to get here. Must be the "La Nina" hitting season.

I think you should go on another diatribe against the team for not scoring runs like you did yesterday. I mean 6 posts in a row proclaiming how they haven't score 10 runs in a game didn't get the point across.

All it takes to score a bunch of runs is to keep the Albatross on the bench. (That's for Mr. Ross.)

Why do you mock my pain, Jordan?

Friday. 9:57 PM Eastern Time

{knocking at door}

Eskin - What?

Thug - Mr. Eskin?

Eskin - What?

Thug - Mr. Howard Eskin?

Eskin - What the {bleep} do you want?

{huge fist punches through door, nails Eskin in the nose, breaking it, and sending him to the floor.}

Thug - Greetings from Mr. Manuel.

Friday. 10:02 PM Eastern Time

{door slams open; Jake enters wearing red pinstripe fatigues and Doc Martins}

Jake - Hey Eskin!

Eskin - {through broken nose} Snarfle.

Jake - This is for beerleaguer. {kicks him in stomach}

Eskin - {whimpering} Snarfle.

Jake - Now....where did Andy say HE was from?

Redburb - How many more? If you keep count this will be easier.

Burb - Again. You missed my point. The 10 runs one was only sporadic. The six posts in a row was about the fourth worst offense.

Incidentally, scoring sixteen runs in one game, at this point, should raise our R/G by just about .2 - a fifth of a run. That ought to make it just about 3.95, which ought to leapfrog them over a couple of teams. An 8 run game today would bring the Phils close to league average which is about 4.05 R/G.

Heck delmOn O. yOung can probably do that hisself.

You can check about the six posts in a row if you want. Really. I was talking about the fourth worst offense.

"I didnt even have to break anybody's arm for this win."

Its the Redburb and Andy Show!

Everytime I see it, I still can't believe that Del Young is 27 years old. Is he from Latin America and 'fudging' his real age?

As that kid says in the video after the dentist's officd visit, "Is this really real?"

Good matchup today that I might try to catchable little of with my schedule permitting. Lee keeps pitching as well as he has and he will have a strong case to be the NL starter at the ASG although Harvey has the insider track since it is in NY.

Lannan finally had an outing where he did get shelled since he was back. Lorecore must be feeling a bit better about our bet but I still think I am pretty safe.

Lannan's first W of the year too.

DOM's OPS drops in a game the phils score 16? Gfndammit.

Okay, 6 RBIs is nice, but it's hard to say that a guy who was .500 / .500 / .667 on the day "lead" a lineup that collectively hit .447 / .509 / .702.

I would give that distinction to the top of the order duo of M Young and Utley, who collectively went 6-9 with a BB, 2B, and HR.

I could care less about OPS. It is all about Production and Brown is on pace to have a 42 HR and 114 RBIs this year. That is all I care about. Production.

Not a bad throw by elmon to throw out the runner.

Jason Churchill of prospect insider reports that phillies were in attendance in Tijuana to scout Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez's showcase yesterday.

Dodgers redsox angels and cubs ate said to be much more interested. 4yr/$40m is rumored get in price.

Clearly the Phillies are changing their approach at the plate with all these walks.

Posted by: NEPP
No, approach never changes between games, only within games once teams have seen the pitcher's stuff. Nothing happens between games (including using analytics to devise a plan of attack for the next day). Only within games.

Jason Churchill of prospect insider reports that phillies were in attendance in Tijuana to scout The Lady and Donkey showcase yesterday.

Actually, given the import of the game to Dodger's history, if this game had happened in 17th century Japan, Capuano would have met the sunrise with a tanto and a second.

Sad guy - Brilliant.

What about the rest of the pitchers Andy?

Well, Midget, everyone knows the bullpen sucks.

Delmon is on a hot streak. It happens. (Although here at Short Attention Span Theater, the concept of a long season doesn't exist.)

Nevertheless, he is who he is and at the end of the season he'll be a low-OB, bad defense guy with 15-20 HR power.

Now, on a more serious note, can Skip Schumaker help our bullpen? I say yes, if he's available.

By my easily-could-have-miscalculated-but-what-the-heck math, Phils are 12-6 with 4.72 RPG after scoring 10 or more the last 2 and a half seasons.

Lee is only -105 tonight. Could they be begging you to bet him any more than they are?

So many on here just have their ideas and then continually move the boundaries of the argument so they can always twist it back to that.

It's comical. Sad, but comical.

Memo to Mr. Hall

From: cut_fastball

It has come to my attention that you refer to Mr. Young as "sizzling". Huh?

Did you see him kick the baseball 2 games ago? Did you watch him mail in PA after PA all season?

In conclusion, if Mr. Young's favorable play carries the team to first place, and he maintains a .300 BA pace through August, kudos to Delmon. Regardless, right now, the only thing "sizzling" is the bacon in one hundred Los Angeles diners.


Cowpoke - {whistling as he redistributes fencing}

TTI - Hey! Hey you!

Cowpoke - Watchoo want, pardner?

TTI - What are you doing?

Cowpoke - Nuthin much. Movin' some fence is all.

TTI - You can't move the fence!

Cowpoke - Huh?

TTI - You can't change the boundary. Once you set it, it's set forever. And ever.

Cowpoke - You some kinda religious nut 'r somethin?

TTI - What?

Cowpoke - All that ferever and ever nonsense. You, like, a fundie mentalist 'r somethin?

TTI - There are just rules, ya know. Look. {holds up thick dog-eared volume} The Compleat Beerleaguer Rules of Officious Decorum, 32nd Edition (With Special clout Section).

Cowpoke - Hmph.

TTI - It says you cannot have your ideas and then continually move the boundaries of the argument. Right here on page...

Cowpoke - {bleep} that. I work for Mel Brooks. {winds up}

TTI - Not in the face!

Bitter, bitter irony of the day: The Phils score 2 touchdowns and a safety, and the Big Piece cools his jets on the bench.

Dom deserves the cleanup role, Chollie. Dammit, he's earned it.

Eight back in the loss column. Boy oh boy, does this team need to win out on this trip.

Well, understanding that there are just nine teams in front of the Phils, I am heartened to remember that at the first turn of the Derby Secretariat was behind 11 other horses.

In fact, whenever I see Delmon Young I think of Secretariat.



Man, that horse could eat.

Andy - You see Secretariat? I see a Yak.

Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez will not get a serious offer from the Phillies. But if he's as good as advertised, he should. He costs nothing but money. No players. No draft picks. And that makes him a steal, even if he's only half as good as someone like Darvish. Maybe 5/60 gets it done. The Phillies are allergic to deals that only cost money.

Oh, and if Rube is smart, after last night's game he has only one option: SELL HIGH.

Delmon's performance over the last 3 days has earned him 4 more weeks in the starting lineup and 2 more public anti-semitic slurs.

BTW, props to Andy for the brilliant Slim Pickens/ Blazing Saddles parody. I need to see that again - timeless comedy.

What happened to the cap on international FA signings?

Delmon's performance over the last 3 days has earned him 4 more weeks in the starting lineup and relegated Ruf to the minors for life.
FREE RUF trade him

I am here to declare that Clout has won our bet as to who would get to the majors first between JC Ramirez and Tyson Gillies. Inexplicably, it is JC Ramirez. He sucked at every level of the minors. So, what was I thinking. Of course he'd get there before bad boy, underachiever Gillies.

So, I have a serious suggestion. Tyson Gillies has now retooled his swing, and he's filling up the boxscores in AA. Instead of bringing him up to AAA, Rube needs to double jump him to the majors. Because it seems that JC Ramirez is now our best reliever, I can only surmise that Gillies will become our best hitter.

Makes sense to me, in RubeWorld.

Chris - The cap does not apply because he's 26 years old.

Tommy Joseph is now entering Xeno's paradox territory. He is now striking the ball at an .036 clip. But no matter how many O fers he takes going forward, he can never hit .000

Aha, thanks.

That .036 is only at Clearwater, where he is 1 for 28. For the season as a whole, including Clearwater, LV, and the GCL, he's hitting a robust .163. Great trade.

Yeah, the Joseph trade can lead to only one conclusion: A two year deal for Chooch.

Well done, Andy :)

Here's a question: Anyone know if Dalton Dulin is the son of Eagle's (the band) fans? And for ten points, can anyone tell me why I'm asking?

Let's stop the selling talk and ask what it costs to get two relief arms. IE Steve Cishek, Addison Reed, and Jessie Crain.

Addison Reed
Jessie Crain

Sorry but I was working the radio show this morning genius. Cholly and me got a Lil talking to do now.

Stick to haikus Andy. Forming intelligent arguments and understanding what others are saying is not your strong point.

Joseph having a very poor year for his development, even before his concussion. And the Pence dump was never going to be viewed as a win in terms of on field performance.

Scout still love his game and presence behind the plate and his power potential as a catcher will keep him as a well regarded prospect.

Remember Denard Span from such offseason articles as 'Nats steal Denard Span,' 'Nats hit a Home Run in deal for Span,' and 'Rizzo gets GM of the Century Award for Span trade'?

Denard Span's last 50 starts: .245/.283/.641, 0HR, 4SB/2CS

Looks more like Barbaro than Secretariat to me...

Also need to remember that Rizzo sent Michael Morse packing as if he were burning a hole in his pocket. That is a hallmark of poor general managing.

Rizzo lucked out by being GM of an awful team during two seasons in which generational players were available for the first pick in the draft. He also overspent on a good player in Jason Werth. He made a good trade for Gio Gonzalez. And a very bad signing in Dan Haren. He is mixed bag at best. But I truly don't remember people singing his praises all that much. I guess I'll wait for that great search feature we will be getting soon?

To say the least, when Rube's lackluster tenure as GM of the Phillies is over, I will not be among those clamoring for Rizzo to replace him. And I'm pretty sure the clamoring will not exist in the first place.

Great GMs sometimes make inexplicably bad moves. Witness, the Cards signing of Ty Wiggintonn for TWO YEARS. But Rizzo is not anywhere near the great GM category.

Looking forward to Cholly knocking out Eskin after the next home game.

Ak- I remember the Morse situation well. They dealt him because with all the studs they had on offense, they couldn't find a place for him in the lineup.

And that's being played out now, with Washington having one of the best offenses in the l...wait, what's that? They've been worse than the Phillies?


And change yer name to The Opinion Interjection

As for the Wigginton deal...every GM deserves at least one pass. Especially Mozeliak, who has built a great team and already won a WS. They'd be good with or without Ty.

I see Wigginton as one of those 'You can't possibly know how bad he is until you see him play everyday' guys. Mozeliak got fooled by the little pop he has in his bat (the only thing he brings to the table) and probably thought he could be useful. Oh well. They're still a 95-100 win team.

Iceman's favorite players in bWAR:

Revere: 0.2
Morse: -0.4

Their counterparts:

Span: 0.7
LaRoche: 0.7

Odd time to be bragging.

I was never the slightest bit impressed with the Denard Span acquisition. As soon as the Nats got him, it became clear that either Morse or LaRoche was going to go. The upgrade in CF defense from Harper to Span is not enough to justify that massive downgrade in offense. And you need only look at the Nats' offensive numbers to see that they need all the offense they can get.

So for 1 year of Pence and Schierholtz/Joseph/Rosin the Phils gave up Singleton, Cosart, and Santana.

Pence has given the Giants a solid year offensively in RF with a .285/.330/.484 line 12 HRs so far and Schierholtz has been outstanding for the Cubs with .284/.333/.544 with 11 HRs.

Singleton tore through A/AA and is already up at the AAA Oklahoma City (where he has struggled a bit but only had 51 ABs), Cosart has been very solid at AAA Oklahome City and only waiting for a callup to the Astros which will likely come in the 2nd half of the season I bet. Even Santana has shown some really nice pop with 14 HRs so far with a staggering amount of Ks at AA. If Santana was at Reading, he would be the 2nd best positional prospect there right now after Franco.

Joseph has been terrible, Rosin has been so-so at Reading as a starter, and Pence was no difference maker in the playoffs in '11 or last year. Only sequence of events for disaterous for this franchise was the Blanton signing/Lee trade after they got Halladay.

Very conceivable that Amaro traded away Thome, Vic, and Pence will won't have received a single player who reaches the MLB level. That outstandingly bad and the one reason I have for Amaro and the current brain trust to not initiate a massive sell-off. They have been horrendous at judging and evaluating prospects outside their organization.

MG: "the one reason I have for Amaro and the current brain trust to not initiate a massive sell-off."

So what would you like them to do? Just sit on their current players and ride the year out?

Been to 2 Cards games out here and that team is ridiculously loaded with talent everywhere.

It is also not true the Cards' fans don't complain. The offense has languished a bit the last month and they have played ~.500 ball with lots of people complaining. As for the best fans in MLB, I call complete and utter BS on that one. Still want to get to a Cubs/Cards game but the vibe here isn't as good as an East Coast rivalry game (Red Sox/Yanks) or even a Giants/Dodgers game.

The only difference is that they don't boo players who are struggling a bit. Holliday is a great example with a guy who has had some struggles this year and might be headed south offensively a bit faster than the Cards' brass thought he would. Rather have fans that cheer loudly/boo loudly than polite but quieter fans.

The Phils' playoff odds currently sit at ~5%. What would a couple of bullpen upgrades make it? 7 or 8%? Is that worth mortgaging another chunk of the future?

I still have trouble viewing the 1st Pence trade and the 2nd Pence trade as separable transactions. The reality is, if it weren't for the 2nd Pence trade, the first one wouldn't look nearly as bad right now. Pence has been killing it all year long & RF, in case you missed it, has been a vast wasteland for the Phillies (the last 3 games notwithstanding).

The whole point of the 1st Pence trade was to get him for 2.5 years. But apparently our GM doesn't do 2.5-year plans either. Seems that, when he acquired Pence in the middle of 2011, he overlooked the little detail that hanging onto him for all of 2012 might put the Phillies over the luxury tax threshold that they dare not cross.

The Phils' playoff odds currently sit at ~5%. What would a couple of bullpen upgrades make it? 7 or 8%? Is that worth mortgaging another chunk of the future?

Posted by: Chris in VT | Saturday, June 29, 2013 at 01:20 PM

I am surprised how often of late that the VT contingent of BL is in complete agreement on the current status of this team.

I'll bet Holliday heard some boos last night in Oakland.

95-100 win Cards are currently in line for the wild card play-in game.

Selective sell-off but do it as a first mover. There are already a couple of teams lining up as sellers who will have pretty good wares. White Sox are putting up a ton of sale signs, Cubs have a few interesting pieces, etc. Don't know if the sellers will have a huge advantage.

Amaro has said as much that the notable rise in attendance is what fueled the large increase in payroll. It came down a bit this year already and I bet will come down a bit more.

Another issue too is that the Phils have invested long-term dollars in Hamels and Howard. Howard's injury real hurt and he's basically unmovable at this point. Hamels been a real disappointment so far and the Phils have to hope that they are getting the guy from '10-'12 because starting next year he is getting $22.5M annually through '18.

Personally, I think this franchise is in really bad strategic shape over the intermediate term with a lot of capital tied up in potentially underperforming assets that are difficult to get rid off the balance sheet, face the prospect of declining revenue streams until '15 or '16 when the new TV contract kicks in, suspect senior leadership and too many chiefs and have few promising prospects anywhere in the organization but especially at AA and above.

If I thought the sr. leadership here was better, I would favor the approach the Cubs took and endure a '14 and '15 which were likely really bad (say <75 wins or less) with a dramatic sell-off.

Just don't know if the Phils can move Howard's contract, if Hamels is going to be a consistent 4-5 WAR guy going ahead forward, and if the sr. leadership can get value in return for some of the assets they would sell off in a complete firesale. Also wonder how they will be affected by some of the market trends in the cable industry and if they will miss their window in 2 years. I hope not but legislation that the cable powers are lobbying hard against could change that dynamic completely. showed me one else knows what I say is my me pegged huh?

bap: "Seems that, when he acquired Pence in the middle of 2011, he overlooked the little detail that hanging onto him for all of 2012 might put the Phillies over the luxury tax threshold that they dare not cross."

100% true. There's no way a +50yr man as accomplished as Ruben Amaro doesn't have the mental capacity to realize this, so there can be no other explanation than this:

He didn't care about 2012 in 2011.

***Only sequence of events for disaterous for this franchise was the Blanton signing/Lee trade after they got Halladay.***

I often wonder how different things would have been had Rube been able to complete the Halladay trade BEFORE the winter meetings and thus, the deadline for tendering contracts to players.

What happened (for those that dont remember): Rube offers Lee a contract extension during the Winter Meetings, Lee's agent counters. Rube makes a decision to trade for Doc and dump Lee during the course of the Winter Meetings. The meetings end and that week is the week that teams MUST tender offers to restricted FAs like Blanton. Rube tenders Blanton an offer because he needs a 5th starter and the Doc trade isn't near finalization so its no guarantee. At that point, he was basically on the hook to pay Blanton around $8-10 million in
2010. At that point, if he still trades for Doc, he needs to make a roster move to cut payroll so he needs to trade Lee or Blanton. Blanton is shopped around after the Doc trade and there are even rumors of Boston looking at him...all that falls through and Lee is traded the day after the Doc trade is finalized to cover the payroll difference.

So I wonder if we had simply gotten Doc at the winter meetings, Rube could have just non-tendered Blanton and kept payroll around the same but with a rotation centered around Doc, Lee and Hamels in 2010...

Personally I think it all comes down to Rube simply not having a long-term plan. He was content to go with Lee until Lee countered his extension soon as that happened, rather than counter the counter, he decided to dump Lee and go for Halladay 100%...because of the lack of planning, the timing of it all forced him to tender Blanton because he didn't want to risk getting left holding the bad with just Hamels/Lee in the rotation as proven starters so he HAD to keep Blanton just in case the Doc trade fell through at the last minute.

Much the same as the timing in the Papelbon signing, Rube simply sucks at any sort of planning.

Personally the Cards would be nuts to make a big move at the trading deadline and give up a key young pitcher or two.

Just need to get another veteran RHP reliever (preferably a power arm who has a nice K/9 rate) and tweak the bench a bench since it is a bit weak with some RH OF help. Kozma sucks offensively but defensively I've have been very impressed by his range. Better defensively than JRoll at this point and by a wide margin.

Hell even if Beltran walks and they can't do a deal they get a pick and have Taveras take over next year. Literally an embarrassment of riches.

***Amaro has said as much that the notable rise in attendance is what fueled the large increase in payroll. It came down a bit this year already and I bet will come down a bit more.***

Attendance is on pace for about 3,150,000 million this year...about the same as they had in 2007. I'd imagine that it'll drop again next year into the 2.6-2.7 million range (around the 2005-2006 numbers at CBP when they sucked).

So about a 15% decrease basically. If the payroll were to drop around the same percentage, that would have us at around $135-$140 million next year.

Caveat: The new national television deal kicks in next year which means $50 million in new tv revenue for every MLB team in payroll doesn't need to drop. They could push a $190 million payroll (right at the luxury tax) and still make a small profit on that $50 million.

The question is "will they?"

NEPP - Great recap and I don't think so either. It was also very interesting to hear earlier this year Montgomery both in that article 2 weeks ago and during a radio interview emphasize all of the other guys around Amaro who have a say in the decison-making process.

Hard to tease out exactly how much influence they have and if Montgomery evers overrides Amaro but I get the sense that Amaro isn't the Big Chief who everybody has to automatically listen to either regardless & that a bunch of others have key input into the organization's decision-making along with Monty's ear if necessary.

Hell even if Beltran walks and they can't do a deal they get a pick and have Taveras take over next year. Literally an embarrassment of riches.

Posted by: MG | Saturday, June 29, 2013 at 01:36 PM

Mind you, they also have 1B Matt Adams sitting on the bench with his 136 OPS+ because they simply dont have room to play him thanks to Allen Craig. I imagine in 2014, that Taveras takes over CF from John Jay and Craig moves to RF permanently with Beltran leaving.

Their offense probably improves or stays about the same with those moves and their payroll would actually go down with the departure of Beltran.

Must be tough to have great scouting and a great GM.

I wonder what a new contract for Utley is going to look like. Because I just don't see Rube letting him walk for nothing.

Yes, he went on the DL. But his knees don't seem to be a problem at all. Two years, twenty million? Would that do it?

"Very conceivable that Amaro traded away Thome, Vic, and Pence will won't have received a single player who reaches the MLB level."

MG, I'll bet that Kyle Simon, despite a statistically bad year overall - with a huge sample size of 30 IP - will at least make it to MLB. He came over in the Thomes trade.

His last 10 outings have been "feast or famine", with 8 of them being scoreless, 1 run allowed in one, and getting lit up for 3 ER in 1/3 of an inning in another.

Also, the "throw-in" in that Thome trade to Baltimore, Gabriel Lino, a C/1B/DH has started out strongly in short-season Williamsport as a 20-yr. old. .316 350 .500 in 40 PA so far. The crosscutters season didn't start until June 17, so he was in extended ST, but perhaps he picked up something while in Clearwater? He hasn't shown much of anything up until now, so maybe it's just an aberration, but the 6'3' 200 lb. Venezuelan did have a decent season in 2011 in rookie ball.

Oh, and for everyone who's excited about the last 3 games from _elm_n, I offer you this:

In 4 games, between July 17, 2011 and July 20, 2011, another Phillies player put up a .353 .368 .588 line with 1 HR and 7 RBI.

He also had a 5 game stretch in 2012 where he put up a .400 .400 .533 line.

Guess who?

Howard is untradeable in my opinion. The MLB tonight crew seems to think that the Phils will keep Lee as they say you've got to have at least two "studs" in your rotation. Papaelbon however is another story. I agree with that.

Some teams may be interested in Utley, true but then who plays 2nd for us? Freddy? Bat just not good enough long-term.

And while I don't disagree with moving payroll, I'll always go back to what I've always said: 1. for what return? and 2. Based on RAJ's tenure here, as a whole, can we trust him to rebuild us? I just don't think so.

AK~ I think that should do it for Utley. Questions. 1. Would the Phils offer that? & 2. Would Utley accept?

You have to remember that the Phils didn't even talk to Victorino even though he wanted to say, as he said later. Maybe he would have stayed for less money than he got in Boston, who knows? If RAJ really wants to keep Utley, there is no harm in seeing now what it would take to keep him. If his price is too demanding, then you know you have to move him.

D Pat, Victorino was asking for a 5-year extension when he was still on the Phils' roster.

He hit the FA market and found little appetite in MLB for a 5-year deal.

He did well, at 3/39, IMO, and if he had been willing to take 3 years when he was still on the Phillies they might have listened. I'm not sure they would have agreed to that salary level, though, as that's a bit of an overpay.

one who names himself
as the only source of truth
is the bigger fool

Oh, and IMO, Utley will get at least 12MM/yr, plus incentives for either G or PA.

He's still an elite player - when he's on the field - and it's likely a few teams won't have much objection to paying him as long as he can stay healthy.

A decent base - say 8MM - with incentives that could earn him up to 15-16MM sounds about right. The incentives would be tied to PA - maybe 1.5 - 2MM FOR EVERY 100 - 120 PA? That way, if he did get to 600 PA, he could earn another 7.5 MM, which would make his total comp 15 - 16MM.

awh: If you took a poll among the regular posters, I'd bet the tiny handful of posters who are "excited" by Delmon Young's hot 3-game stretch are out-numbered at least 20 to 1 by those who are genuinely unhappy about it -- on the theory that it buys him another month in the starting lineup. And that 10 to 1 figure may be off. The real number may be infinity, since I'm not sure there's even a single poster who's actually "excited" by Delmon Young's hot streak.

Cole Hamels career numbers in WAR:

2007- 4.1
2008- 4.3
2009- 1,9
2010- 5.4
2011- 6.6
2012- 4.6
2013- .5

So he has been a 4-5 WAR player for 5 of his previous 6 seasons but a ridiculous;y obviously bad season has MG questioning whether he is a 4-5 WAR player going forward? Too many people like to overreact to things on here.

Also, Pence's solid year this year has him going:

.285/.330/.484/.814 with 12 home runs and 40 RBI.

Pence's 2012 to this point (common perception was him being a disappointment)

.280/.347/.486/.832 with 15 home runs and 46 RBI.

Keep in mind this is the same Pence that MG has always criticized as being a terrible fundamental player and not worth bringing in...blah blah blah. But now in 2013 putting up subpar numbers to last year in a different place he is "solid."

It's that disease that affects so many here- of no matter what the Phillies do it's wrong, and whatever others do is almost categorically right.

Hamels just seems to be going through his '09 season all over again. It's unfortunate, but it happens sometimes. I don't worry about him in future seasons.

What does LaRoche have to do with Morse, really? Morse can also play the OF. When Span was brought in, Morse was out the door in Rizzo's mind. Now they have Lombardozi playing the OF while Span gives them zero offensively.

As for their bWAR, Revere has been the better player than Span the last two months by far. And only a complete moron would still agree with Span and LaRoche being brought in and dealing Morse like they had no room for him. He's terrible defensively, but they need his bat badly in that lineup.

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