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Sunday, June 23, 2013


AAA pigs scored more then the big club. And vs Bauer who owned them in Cleveland. What does that tell ya about big club?

I miss David Herndon and Fabio Castro.

Harvey is something special and the Phils' offense is nothing special.

They are going to get smacked in the face in SD, tread water in LA and Pitts will whoop them around.

In no way can I envision this being a successful road trip. Especially with it ending in the Pittsburgh.

The saddest thing, and I mean the very saddest thing, is what a terrible Phillies team means for its fanbase.

It's no secret that Beerleaguer is far less popular than it was when we were winning. But what happens to all these posters when they're not venting on BL?

At its peak, this place was very and truly a beautiful place for debate and discussion--perhaps the location of the highest level of discourse about a single team's fortunes that there is/was. That's gone now, a consequence of circumstance and the brutality of conversation that eventually took over.

Between JW's photoshops setting a dramatic scene, and the stakes of every game, something special existed here once. It is now gone for so many reasons, but I wish it was not.

Stults, Marquis and TBA are three of the best young arms in baseball.

I'm betting the Phils will get four on this trip.

Sorry. I re-read that post and realize it could be misinterpreted. I meant four runs.

"When he realized that Stutes was going on the Disabled List, leaving the bullpen in a bind, Martinez volunteered to come back early from his clandestine job damming up flood waters in Canada. His call was moving and heartfelt, but Amaro told him he had to contact the commissioner's office.

"Selig was open to Martinez' return. But when he found out that it would be as a pitcher instead of as a ultra-super utility player, he balked:

""Frankly," he stated, "Using Michael in a regular role from the mound would destroy the competitive balance of baseball to such a degree as to jeopardize the framework of the game. I simply cannot allow it."

"When Amaro had to break the news to Martinez he was devastated. There was nothing he ever wanted to do more than put himself on the line for his team. But rules were rules, and so he stayed in Canada while his stunt double filled in at Lehigh Valley.

Aumont was recalled, protesting that it really should be his "Ami, Michel" who should go to pitch. But also expressed gratitude for all the children he was saving from the raging waters in his homeland."

- from Life of a Baseball God, by "R. A. Marrow, II"

Humor me are the Dodgers or Angels sellers?

Posted by: CS | Sunday, June 23, 2013 at 07:09 PM

I figure us for about a 3-7 record over this 10-game road trip: 1 win in Petco (most likely tomorrow); 2 wins in L.A. (where we'll have a 4-game series but somehow manage to miss Kershaw), and a sweep in Pittsburgh. That would put us at 39-47 on July 4, which ought to be enough to jolt even the most optimistic/delusional posters into the realization that the Phillies should be sellers at the deadline. Of course, if we should happen to take 2 of 3 from Atlanta in the series after that, those optimistic/delusional posters will be right back to believing that we can still contend this year.

Aumont has clearly earned this recall from AAA...I mean, he went down, put it all together to the tune of a sweet, sweet 6.75 ERA with 15 BB and 13 SO in 10.2 IP and a 2.344 WHIP during that period.

Yes, 15 BB and a 2.344 WHIP in those 10.2 IP.

Just awesome.

I'm betting the Phils will get four on this trip.

Posted by: Andy | Sunday, June 23, 2013 at 08:32 PM

Runs total? Yeah, that's about what I'm guessing too.

Didn't see the game today as I was up all night doing Relay for Life stuff and needed to catch some sleep before softball. Looks like I missed nothing.

Also- for those asking about GTOwn Dave. He didn't quit on the Phillies- he is posting over at the 700 Level on the team today. So basically he put on a douchebag style hissyfit here posturing for people he doesn't know.

Part of the problem with the Phillies (actually, a pretty significant part of the problem) is that they're just so rigid in their thinking. They need a RH reliever desperately and they've got a veteran RH pitcher (Zambrano) at AAA who is almost certainly better than stiffs like Ramirez & Aumont. And, oh, by the way, he can void his contract on 7-1 if he's not on the 25-man roster. But even though he could probably help us in a relief capacity, & can't help us at all as a starter, the Phillies seemingly can't even summon the creativity to see him as anything other than the starting pitcher he has always been. Hence, they're likely to end up losing a guy who could probably have helped them if they'd had even the tiniest bit of imagination.

Not that I'm that torn up about it, mind you. But it's just another illustration of the organization's incompetence.

This team is exactly what the Dodgers need to turn their year around.

A "douchebag style hissyfit?" Here was his comment:

"These Phillies put the “Duh” in “fundamentals”, & Revere is one of the worst offenders. Attempting to drop the ball into his throwing hand was lazy, & stupid. The umpire made the correct call."

Hardly strikes me as "douchebaggy" or a "hissy fit." Actually, this site badly misses his sense of humor.

No, this site needs more JW, not more GTown Dave.

The Phils evidently have an internal quota of about 2-3 players that do not deserve to be on an MLB roster. Since Mini Mart was recently sent down, they were one shy of the quota and brought up Aumont to meet it.

As good of an explanation as any.

bap: MR. Z himself has said he signed here to be a starter, and that he hated relieving. I view these last 2 call-ups as a message to change his tune.

Ha, that is pretty ridiculous. Bauer shut out the Phillies MLB team for 5 innings.

Jermaine Mitchell, Cesar Hernandez, Cody Asche, Darin Ruf, and Josh Fields drive in two runs off Bauer in the first inning. And that same core, plus Overbeck, scored on him again in the third inning where Bauer was yanked.

And Bauer isn't struggling or a different pitcher by any means, he had a 0.81 ERA in 4 June starts before tonight.

AAA replacements > Phils veterans

BAP: You can't fvcking read can you?

"So basically he put on a douchebag style hissyfit here posturing for people he doesn't know."

Note the word "here." By saying that I am indicating that he he did something on this site that was a douchebag style hissy fit. Had I said he did it today I would've said, "So basically he put on a douchebag style hissyfit on The 700 Level posturing for people he doesn't know." (you could also sub in "today" for The 700 Level.

I can understand how you would miss that considering your simple-minded argument on the offense-pitching debate. But c'mon man. Try to think a little before you post here. Or maybe you can pitch a fit and run off to The 700 Level too. Then you can have his "sense of humor," and no one to call you on your inane thoughts.

outside of Dillon Gee starts, the Mets have basically dominated the Phillies the past few years.

Steve's Whiskers - And here I thought that what we really needed was more limericks.

Tug: No they haven't.

TTI: Yeah, maybe I'll go post on 700 Club & share with them my view that there can be more than one cause for a loss. That view seems too radical for Beerleaguer.

In re: offense versus pitching

I'm not sure what the inane part in the TTI comment is about, but I will, once again, point out that the last time the Phillies got this far into a season without having scored 10 runs in a single game was 1972. To me that pretty much says everything about this teams ineptitude as an offensive juggernaut. In fact, if they make it through this road trip without scoring in double figures (a distinct possibility - I've heard that TBA is one of the best young arms to come along in the past four centuries of organized sports), I will have to begin scouring the game logs Before that abysmal 1972 season. (I mean really: Tommy Hutton in Left Field!).

The 2013 Phillies may know how to hit, but they know less about scoring than I did the back seat of my orange Chevy Nova in High School.

Didnt watch the game but Revere's fumble reminds of another time in Philadelphia Sports.

"I've never been in a tie. I didn't even know it was in the rulebook."

Asshat Lannen hasn't been a real steller signing either by Rube (not that it was a big deal to get him in the first place).

ERA approaching 6 and has won as many games as Ricky Riccardo has. And has already been on the DL as well.

Maybe he can pitch decent enough in the next month to get traded by July 31st. I am sure they could get another Michael Martinez-type back in return from somebody.

And for those thinking Zambrano should come up for the bullpen...he don't want to do that. He only wants to start for somebody. He's a d-bag, whose best days are way behind him anyway. Let him go somewhere else and implode for them instead.

At this point in time, Aumont has no business on the big league roster. He has gone down and pitched horribly. If it were me, I'd call up Ethan Martin and put him in the pen. He's not a starting pitcher. He is a fairly hard throwing 1-2 inning guy at the big league level. They are just wasting his and the organizations time by using him as a starter in AAA. Its the same thing they did with Aumont. Total waste of time then too.

Its pretty sad when Mike Martinez, Steve Lerud, JC Ramirez and Phillipe Aumont are "earning" promotions to the big league roster. Even the Marlins promote better players then that. But that's what we are down to...I guess.

I would have thought that Revere's play would have been ruled a catch, but i can't really blame the ump. The ball did not sit in the glove for more than a split second - just looked like a lazy play on his part.

Andy: Big mistake. Impala's had much roomier back seats.

Yeah, maybe I'll go post on 700 Club & share with them my view that there can be more than one cause for a loss. That view seems too radical for Beerleaguer.

And again BAP that is different from what I am saying but you are a simpleton that can only apparently carry one line of thought at a time. Maybe you should go to 700 Level. You and GTown can be the king's of the morons.

I enjoyed Dave. He was our "Guy From Boston".

So the ongoing battle between optimist vs pessimist views and now turned into the pitching pessimists vs offense pessimists.

I can't really comprehend why former optimists somehow gravitated to the pitching pessimists, and vice versa - but it certainly seems thats what has happened.

And here I thought it was just my personality keeping chicks out of the back of my K-car in college. Go figure.

lore, I want to invite everyone to the defense pessimists club.

And if you act before midnight tonight, you can join the "how come the other team makes all the smart plays" club free of charge.

This team has more ways to cause pain to its fans than any I've ever seen. At least the '72 Phillies had Carlton and some young players (Luzinski, Bowa, Money, Doyle, Montanez). Other than Cliff Lee and hopefully Hamels, is there anyone who is compelling to watch?

G'Town Dave, come home. You're an overly-cynical bastard but, at least you're funny and not an a$$hole like those who knife dissenters while the ship sinks. With that said, I choose to blindly hope for a miracle in 2013.

I miss GTown's "humor" like I miss a cold when it goes away. I think there's a difference between trying to be funny and succeeding like Andy/Old Phan/clout and people like GTown who actually believe what they say and are accidentally funny because they're simple.

Plus, GTown simply re-posts his dumb tweets here. At least when BAP says stupid stuff about there still being 'optimistic/delusional' posters here, I know it's stupidity I can't read anywhere else.

dlhunter-good post on the state of BL @ 8:14.

BL of old, playoffs and WFCs and 102 win teams.

Things that aren't there anymore.

lorecore - I can't speak for others, but this optimist blames the pitching (bullpen in particular) because I've seen this team struggle offensively in '10 & '11 and still win a ton of games both seasons thanks to steady pitching.

Ironic that Harvey's pretty much the only guy the Phils have faced recently about who you really can say "You have to tip your cap to him :)

I guess I'm a "big tent pessimist." After watching just about every game since the start of the season, I have come to think pessimistically about the pitching, the offense and the defense.

Ironic that we were incensed about Vic and Pence playing stupid on defense.
And now CF and RF are manned by guys who can't get to a ball to make a catch ,and a guy who can't throw or even transfer the ball from his glove to his throwing hand.

A lot of the long-time posters are still here but they are pretty much lurkers now. Content has also taken a bit of a hit as the general interest in the team has waned a bit and JW is no longer involved on a daily basis as he is on to better things at Comcast.

I can understand why people are a bit down on this team. Tepid offense, shoddy defense, crummy bullpen, and mediocre starting pitching. There isn't a clear strength of the team and it is pretty hard to put together this crappy of a team given their payroll but Amaro has succeeded.

Random thoughts:

- Lannan throws a lot of pitches and not one of them is even above average. Don't enjoy watching him try to 'dink and dunk' his way through a lineup 3x times/6 IP.

Unless he has a solid 2nd half, he's going to have trouble getting a guaranteed deal next year as a starter.

- Does Quintero just get hits when I am not watching/listening to games? I swear he NEVER gets a hit while I am watching a game yet is somehow hitting .231 this season so far.

- Revere's gaffe was a catch and a poor call. Still, it was ill-advised and the more I see him play the less I think he is an everyday player in CF because his intrinsic qualities are lacking and his defense in CF isn't great.

- Wonder if Stutes will ever be able to get healthy again. He's had problems with that right shoulder now for 2+ years. Given how decimated the bullpen is right now, losing him is a real loss.

Give Cholly a ton of grief for his bullpen management & decision-making but it doesn't matter who would be managing this collection of fringe talent. Hard not to see how this isn't the worst bullpen in MLB right now.

I've been here since it was Berks's Phillie's Fan's.

.....Hey the best
backseat to lay pie at the drive-in wasmy 4 door 1960 Olds!

MG- Agree it was a combo bad play and bad call.

The rule says the release has be intentional.

There's the question the release was intentional if you display the basic skills to transfer the ball from your glove hand to your bare hand and throw the ball.

Bubba your right...Bunch of times Bl'ers(sure ive done it myslef) would overly criticize players...Now look at the situation...Bl'ers sometimes fail to realize although they are in the Majors they are still human and prone to mental goofs, gaffs, mistakes and just plain bad or stupid luck. Shane was the poster boy for this i feel on Bl'er. It only takes one time to be picked off and suddenly you are trash, worse player to ever put a uniform on etc etc etc.

Despite MG's ramblings to the contrary, Revere can handle himself in CF. It's true.

Well this quote made my day: "I think there's a difference between trying to be funny and succeeding like Andy/Old Phan/clout and people like GTown who actually believe what they say and are accidentally funny because they're simple."

Iceman thinks clout is funny? That explains a lot.

Two of the most aggressively opinionated posters on Beerleaguer like Iceman and TTI coming down hard on GTown Dave? There is some old adage like "speaking of the pot, call the kettle black" that is applicable in this instance.

Nice to see Adams getting a 2nd opinion on his arm. Don't blame him tbh.

AAA pigs ready for show. Time to hit button, and bring up ruf. Asche, Cesar etc..

This team has bigger problems, but Yak has had about a month too long of a leash thus far (maybe longer depending on your opinion). If Rube was serious about "cutting bait" that time is long overdue.

Lannan isn't going to have any issues whatsoever in getting a guaranteed deal...because Rube will almost certainly tender him an offer and bring him back as a cheap 5/6 starter.

Does anybody think JC Ramirez just had beginners luck yesterday? It was a blowout in the Mets were not trying very hard. But maybe just maybe he can give us a few quality innings in relief.

Yes, yes I do.

Anyone that thinks Ramirez has turned a leaf or is now a super effective reliever is going to be massively disappointed.

According to the article i read Nepp sure what else they where going to do with 2 relievers down unless they dip into the AA talent?

This game was a sure-fire loss as soon as the pitching matchups were announced. Nothing wrong with losing this one.

Friday, on the other hand...

More and more it looks like the best way to sign relief pitching in the offseason is to just grab as many cheap guys as you can and hope 1 or 2 turn out good. or just have an army of high 90s flamers in the minors at all times.

.245 .282 .430 .713 babip:.304

.337 .405 .587 .991 babip:.470

career babip: .325

idk why I'm doing this. Just have always liked Ryno, hoping that a healthy Ryno(at least feeling pain) could contribute for a few more years.

Also maybe to get Sophist to argue since he was so down on Ryno and disappeared for the last month or so.

Ramon Hernandez come on down!

Quintin Berry, we'll see you in a week!

Hoping for Franco at 3b next season being too optimistic? lol

Yes, probably a bit optimistic...he's gonna need at least the rest of this year in AA and some ABs in AAA before he's ready to make the majors. Late 2014 is probably the realistic "optimistic" prediction.

Awesome to see a prospect like France go on an onslaught like this. If you follow prospects around the league, you'll know that Franco's name is starting to be mentioned in the same breaths as the top hitters around. Example:

During a prospects chat with Marc Hulet at fangraphs, someone gave out 4 names as who would contribute in the MLB the soonest:

"I would say you’ll see Franco first, then Lindor, then Almora, then Russell."

He obviously didn't say Franco is the best, just the soonest to come up - but the fact that his name even is worthy of listing with the other 3 really blows me away.

Run differential!

So was it lost on everyone that MM was officially put on waivers via DFA to make room for JC on the 40-man?

dlhunter, when the play on the field sucks, the comments are going to be more negative and all encompassing. I think we miss Jason's fine thread headers and insight. the 2007 and 2008 team had a blue collar work ethic feel to it. This continued through 209 and 2010, but has been sadly slipping of late.

buster: There is no rejoice because we all know Martinez will not be claimed and he'll end up back in AAA.

MM has cleared the DFA/waivers hurdle once this year already and made it back from the dead.

Until he's decapitated and dumped in the pine barrens, he will keep coming back Jason style.

NEPP: He didn't get put on waivers before, he was optioned. They had to DFA him to get him off the 40-man, however.

I'm pretty sure he was already dropped from the 40 man once this year back in 99% sure.

Yup, they dropped him off the 40 man last Fall and he was right back this year.

Me thinks Rube love affair with Mini Mart is over. Not because of the recent Dfa. Even when he was called up (im sure by now reluctantly) he didnt get any playing time. He had what 4 Ab's and i think he pinch ran once.

I think it would be great if JC Ramirez was one of those guys that magically puts it together all of a sudden because his stuff yesterday had nice life on it and some good velocity.

However, the jury is way out on him yet.

If someone is dumb enough to pluck Mini off waivers, I'll sh#& a brick.

Who knows what we'll get out of JC in the bigs, but somehow, an ERA north of 6 in AAA doesn't inspire confidence. On the bright side, he isn't Durbin or Horst.

Ah, sorry, I thought you'd meant during this season. Yeah, he got waived once, but I hear the Yankees are looking in on him.

They did just sign Zagurski...

You know who's being talked about as a solid trade chip heading into the deadline?

Nate Schierholtz. Man, I really wish the Phils could have a guy like that. They could flip him for a prospect after he has the best half-season of his life, being utilized properly as a platoon player. Some teams just have all the luck, you know?

Yeah but getting rid of him allowed us the cash to sign Chad Durbin and Delmon Young!!!

He was also duplicative of Laynce Nix, so they had to let him go. I guess it's half a dozen of one, six of the other, since we'll be trading Nix for a solid prospect too. No harm then.

There are no platoons on this team. Why would you want to carry ANOTHER player you know won't be played to his strengths.

Even I don't pine for Nate the way Jack does. He must watch my hubby's highlights the same way some guys watch Jenna Jameson highlights.

at least Zagurski can put up numbers in the minors by exposing weak lefties, martinez can't even put up numbers at any level of the minors.

Until he's decapitated and dumped in the pine barrens, he will keep coming back Jason style.

I'll buy the cannolis!

Delmon Young went 0-for-3 on Sunday against the Mets and is now batting .220/.277/.390 over his first 44 games with the Phillies.
What is the over /under that any of Ruf,Susdorf,Fields or Mitchell would do better than that in 44 games?

For some reason I can't remember the post where Jack said he wanted the Phillies to tender Nate Schierholtz.

How dare the Phillies not see that Nate Schierholtz- he of 24 career home runs coming into the 2013 season would hit his career high in home runs, and be on pace to shatter his career high in RBI?

Jack is a seer. He should be playing the lottery with how well he can see into the future? Quick Jack- who will win next year's Super Bowl?

Lore: MM was killing it in AAA for a week+ before his call-up, and he owns a 754 OPS in AAA.

That's about as good as Zags does in AAA on the other side of things.

Hey speaking of properly utilized platoon players...

Raul Ibanez (at 41 years old)
vs. RHP (75% of PA) .258/.299/.542/.841, 12 HR (17 on the season!)

Brandon Moss
vs. RHP (79% of PA) .249/.337/.497/.834, 12 HR (14 total)

754 career OPS in AAA, that should read.

To be fair, it's a lot easier to properly utilize a platoon when you're not platooning in 3 positions.

And in the AL where pitching changes/double switches dont shorten your bench.

lorecore: Probably because it doesn't exist. but if you say enough things you can cover all sides of an argument and never be wrong.

buster: zagurski strikes out well over a batter per inning and usually sports an ERA under 3 - please don't tell me that is the same value as a .750 OPS

and no i will not continue posting about mike zagurksi and minimart's minor league performances.

Lore: For a reliever? I'm not a fan of WAR, but...

But sure, we can stop there.

75% of PA vs RHP isn't even a platoon. 75% of pitches thrown are by RHP anyway.

Delmon Young went 0-for-3 on Sunday against the Mets and is now batting .220/.277/.390 over his first 44 games with the Phillies.
What is the over /under that any of Ruf,Susdorf,Fields or Mitchell would do better than that in 44 games?

Posted by: Jr.

I would like to know this as well. No way it would be under. No way.

I'm pretty positive I posted the day they non-tendered Schierholtz that it was a stupid move. They had a perfect RF platoon with Mayberry/Schierholtz.

I also believe I wrote that even if they didn't want to keep Schierholtz because of Nix, since Schierholtz was worth more on the open market (see the Cubs paying him 2.2 million) than it cost the Phils to tender him (approx. 1.6 million), there was surplus value. So they should've tendered him and then traded him.

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