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Sunday, June 30, 2013


Repost from Last Thread:

JC Ramirez looks like Walter Johnson. And DeFratus looks like something Walter Johnson stepped in while walking his dog.

It's pretty funny that Clout has every Galvis mention on speed dial, so he can jump in to tell us how awful he is. But Diekman actually looks good, so no jumping on him anymore. And of course, DeFratus is the fair haired boy, so again, no mention that he has sucked something awful. He actually looks like he wants to cry when they bring him in. And he was their best reliever in the minors and the great hope for an in house closer candidate not too long ago. Those days are over, at least for a while.

I once again am wondering how Michael Schwimer would have looked in this bullpen. Haven't even looked in on him this year, but hey, Rube hated him, so what's the problem with dumping him for nothing, right?

Schwimmer hasn't pitched in the majors yet this season. 6 IP at AAA, seven walks, six strikeouts, but no earned runs allowed. FIP of 4.70

That's an odd line for Schwimer. But I'm going to assume that since JC Ramirez is now Walter Johnson that Schwimer would be Bob Feller. And Tyson Gillies, Willie Mays. All they need to do is get to a lower level of baseball, which appears to be the majors. AAA must be really difficult.

Phillies have to be leading MLB in solo HR's.

For me they lost it when Ruiz had that AB with bases loaded. I knew if they didnt score then they would lose.

Time to dust off the old 'LAB or Losses Attributable to Bullpen' stat.

How many games has this bullpen blown in the 7-9th innings when it has tied/ahead? Bullpen has 15 losses now and I am too lazy to figure it out but I would bet it is a couple of games higher.

Team ERA is 4.17 (15th in NL) and the only team that is worse is the Brewers (4.23).

Bullpen has the worst ERA in the NL by a wide margin (4.56) and the next closest team is LA at 4.38.

For a team supposedly built around pitching, you wouldn't know it watching the games this year. Won't fault Amaro for how Hamels has pitched or even Halladay's injury but the bullpen is an unmitigated disaster.

I bet Rubes plan was that 3 aces would go 7-8(most of the time) w the occasional KK gem mixed in. Mainly Papelbon, Adams , Durbin and Bastardo. The other younger arms would go in situations where the pressure wasnt high. Probably also thought one of the younger arms would arise. Sounds logical on the surface. Then Halladay gets hurt, Cole been lousy, Durbin sucked (as expected) and Adams was never right. I do put most of the blame on Amaro. However i felt he could of better thought this out.

From day 1 of the offseason to opening day, everyone in the phils FO and every fan outside of jack knew the phils needed to improve the bullpen... But yet here we are.

There aren't enough excuses in the world to let amaro off the hook for this.

And even though a few posters like clout thought durbin and Adams were plenty enough, most knew that there was plenty of room for more even at minimum prices

With a halfway decent bullpen, this team would be pretty much in the mix. Given that they still aren't that far out, it means that they could be in the mix if the bullpen were fixed.

Hopefully, they'll make some moves along those lines.

Phlipper - Agreed and for all the things that have gone wrong so far I bet they would be a couple of games above .500 (1 or 2) which would put them only behind the Reds for the 2nd WC a couple of games back.

The team is patently average in almost every aspect.

"Fixing" the bullpen is something about 15 other teams would like to do as well. Lots of subpar bullpens out there (including the team we are playing this weekend). And there are plenty of teams who lose games "attributed" to their pen. That's baseball in 2013.

If some of the high-priced players were playing better/healthy, then that would be the "fix" this team would really need to contend for something.

I'm going to give Manuel credit for getting Frandsen up against a lefty with the bases loaded. Didn't work out but, he maneuvered into that matchup well.

Watching DYoung pull up at 3B on Nix's double was sickening. Guy's so lame he probably shops with one of those motorized carts.

What's teh rule on that ball Puig kicked into the stands? That can't be a ground-rule double. It was a sure triple off the bat. I've never seen it happen but, the rule should be that the umpire can award the hitter whatever base he deems appropriate. In this case, had the ball not bounced into the stands, Revere scores easily and it is probably scored a triple and an error. Would be scored an inside-the-park homer if a Phillie kicked a Dodger hit into the corner.

Also, header is crediting Lee with 8 IP. He had probably the worst command I've seen from him. Arm late / foot early on a lot of pitches. Still, pitched well overall but ran some deep counts.

Lastly, is Puig really pronounced Pweeg? I would pronounce it pu ig' or pwig. Maybe even Pu'ig.

denny b - The Phils' relievers are either last or in the bottom 3 in every bullpen category in the NL.

A good bullpen though with an effective setup guy (there were several available) along with another solid FA veteran RHP reliever instead of Durbin would have dramatically changed the composition of this bullpen.

Where Amaro drastically screwed up this offseason and it has killed the team in the 1st half.

It hasn't helped that every internal option has stunk it up this year too including De Fratus and Aumont. I was hoping one of those 2 would have a decent year, that they would get a surprise lift from someone else (e.g., Valdes) and that all togehter it would a team strength.

An improved bullpen along with a bit more power than last year were what I hoped might push the team into a possible playoff contender and in the upper 80s total if things went well.

They are on pace to hit slightly more HRs (164 vs 158 last year) thanks largely to Brown's breakout power in the 1st half. Not a single thing except Papelbon being Papelbon has broke their way in the bullpen & they literally have run out of internal options to call up just like last June.

So at what point does Dubee get his walking papers?

Another disappointing loss that might have been a win, but for...

Keeps coming back to the BP.

Still don't quite get the Revere ruling, either. He was flying into second by the time the ball was kicked, would have probably been on second by the time the ball was gloved if played cleanly, almost sure triple. Hugh, I'm not sure he would have scored easily, but him making it to third would have been a lock.

""Fixing" the bullpen is something about 15 other teams would like to do as well. "

Sure. I won't be easy. Just saying that you wouldn't need to "blow up" the team to have it in contention.

Wasnt so keen on Durbin. Adams i thought was a good albeit risky move. Rube should of went after someone else as well. I bet one more reliable arm in that pen and we would have another 3-4 wins at this point. The team has been scrapping and fighting a little more lately.

Rule 6.09(g): The batter becomes a runner when—Any bounding fair ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over or under a
fence on fair or foul territory, in which case the batter and all runners shall be enti-
tled to advance two bases.

Revere was past first base when the ball was kicked into the stands, so he should have been on third base.

Phlipper: "With a halfway decent bullpen, this team would be pretty much in the mix. Given that they still aren't that far out, it means that they could be in the mix if the bullpen were fixed."

That hell is wrong with you people?

Phillies offense: 12th in runs per game
Phillies starters: 9th in ERA
Phillies bullpen: Last in ERA

In what fantasy land do people live in when upgrading the Phillies bullpen to league average somehow means that the 12th best offense and 9th best rotation will become the 5th best team in the league?

I should clarify that as a fan I am very much apart of 'fantasy land' - and hope against hope this team will make the playoffs and win a WFC - but to advocate taking away pieces from our farm system for 2013 is beyond being a fan - its ridiculous.

Aumont generated a lot of excitement heading into the season, but anyone who has paid attention to his minor league career would have known he was going to be terrible. Same goes for Diekman and J.C. Ramirez even though they've both gotten off to hot starts. DeFratus and Bastardo, though, are pretty confounding to me.

Your right about Aumont BAP. Bastardo hmmmm he always had control/durability issues so the surprise isnt huge. I still think he can be a serviceable guy just not one i would trust too much game tied or 1 run lead types. Which is exactly what he is thrusted on many times.

RE: Revere "double" I always was under the impression that the "Advance Two Bases" clause was explicitly there to handle situations like last night. Revere had already "safely" advanced to First. So you get the base you are going TO and the next. Revere should have been on third.

The rule does not say Advance two bases from home plate. Had the deflection occurred after safely advanced to 2B, he should have been plated.

this was a "live ball" play so where the runner was at the time the ball left the field should come into play. As opposed to the standard Ground Rule Double which often is dead before the batter is out of the batter's box. And runners are awarded their bases based on where they when pitched.

If MLB meant for the batter to be on second base, they would state, the batter is awarded SECOND BASE. Not "two bases". This allows the judgment of the umpires.

What I took Phlipper to mean by his comment- and correct me if I'm wrong- is that if this bullpen was even league average, you could probably tack 4 to 5 wins (already! Only halfway through the season!) into the win column for the team. Which would put the divisional deficit (in the worst division in baseball, granted) around 3.5-4.5 games. I'd consider that 'in the mix' with the fifteen or so games they have left against the Braves.

Doesn't mean they still wouldn't be an average team. They just wouldn't be completely out of the picture in a bad division.

BAP pretty much lays out a few points for my argument last night, which has not changed: just dump the entire bullpen. All of them. Demote them or release them.

Other than DeFratus (oddly enough, despite last night he's the only one that has some potential), and possibly Diekman, I don't think the team will miss any of these guys. They aren't going to contribute to this team winning once the rebuild happens. They're all fringe-MLB pitchers at best. Drop them, demote them. Whatever. Just start over from scratch.

I wasn't advocating trading for bullpen arms at all and would be pretty pissed if they did. This team isn't good enough to make the playoffs and I do want them to trade selective pieces to get some value in return.

Papelbon and M. Young (Red Sox and Yanks both have been linked to him in recent days) are no-brainers

Lee only if you get 'an offer to good to refuse' and moving Lee for .70-.80 cents on the dollar makes little sense on several fronts.

Utley is probably the most difficult case because of what he means to the fan base, his ability to stay on the field, and what he will get in FA.

JRoll too although I can't imagine the Phils would get much for him in return right now and they likely would be better off just keeping him for next year.

Keep Chooch and try to sign him to a 2-yr deal this offseason or at the very least make him a qualifying offer. No catchers ready to take his place internally & he isn't going to get a long-term deal this offseason.

I still think the Phillies would do well to start converting some of their lesser starting pitching prospects to relief duty & then calling them up. Ethan Martin springs right to mind. Granted, he has the same problem as Aumont & Diekman: he can't throw strikes. But the hope is that he might be able to improve his command at least a little bit if he were pitching 1 or 2 innings at a time. Would it work? I have no idea. I only know that whatever they're doing now ain't working. Other than Madson, has there been a single bullpen success story to come out of the Phillies' minor league system in the last decade?

I guess you should feel good about any road trip where you end above .500, but if we win today, I'm not going to feel very excited knowing we could have easily won every game on this trip.

Funny to see Kansas City as potential buyers for Utley when they are just as far back in the standings. This team is in the hunt with a better bullpen. I know it's silly but want them to claim Francour and attempt to put him in AAA.

pblunts: the phillies plays the "best team in the MLB" still on this roadtrip.

It may have passed by everyone's attention, but Diekman and Ramirez are the only non-Papelbon relivers throwing strikes at this point.

Diekman has nasty stuff if he throws strikes. That's been his problem ever since he changed his arm slot. But he could be a great LOOGY if he can control his pitches.

And Ramirez is currently the best reliever in baseball. Yeah, that's a joke. I actually thought Rube Jr. was intentionally trying to crap all over the fan base by bringing him up. But the joke has been on him, as Ramirez has unexpectedly been awesome. And truly, nobody on the planet could have foreseen that. And it's not likely to last. But at least with Diekman and Ramirez the Phils now appear to have some velocity coming out of their pen. Yes, DeFratus throws hard also, but his fastball appears to have lost all movement and his breaking ball hangs routinely, when he's not afraid to throw it. Come to think of it, he looks a lot like BJ Rosenberg. How did that happen?

Pblunts: exactly. Those that have been questioning when the Phils are going to put together an 11-12 game stretch of wins- you just saw it. Between the bullpen and Hamels, half of them were pissed away.

The team is going nowhere with this bullpen. If it wasn't obvious a few weeks ago, it's painfully obvious now.

If the Phils win today, they are 4-3 on the road trip.

I just don't see them winning that series in Pittsburgh with the matchups, how well the Pirates are playing, and how poorly several players on this team have hit there.

If they can somehow win 2 of 3 and finish up 6-4, you can't really complain about the road trip results.

@lorecore for some reason I thought this was a 7 game trip. It's been aggravating nonetheless and has deprived me of sleep. I actually conked out Friday at 10 and missed the only laugher.

How was JC Ramirez 'been awesome' after a handful of outings where he didn't even pitch 1 IP in most of them?

Stutes and De Fratus initially provided a nice boost to the pen before Stutes shoulder issues started acting up and De Fratus command became erratic of late.

I didn't expect much of Aumont and thought he would contribute very little here (hence my 'Poor Man's Wayne Gomes' moniker for him). Expecting De Fratus to be a serviceable reliever who maybe could give them a nice boost but that just hasn't been the case. Been very mediocre so far in his MLB career with a lot of command issues.

De Fratus now has thrown 175 strikes/103 balls (62% strike ratio) so far.

That's a very poor ratio especially for a guy who doesn't have a very high K/9 total and swing and miss rate.

Remember when the Phillies faced Jeff Locke earlier this year?

He came into the game with a career 5.67 ERA in 66 IP with equally crappy peripherals.

Well he shut the Phillies out that day, and has a 1.45 ERA ever since with a 6-0 record and a sub 1 WHIP.

Even Bastardo who has really struggled with his command at times is at ~64%. Adams is also at 64%. Valdes was at 64%. Horst was at 63%.

Durbin was at 62%. Savery is at 59%. Aumont is at a pathetic 58%.

The only Phils' relievers who have thrown strikes with a real degree of consistency is Papelbon (68%).

Phils have found relievers who walk too many hitters, can't throw strikes with much consistency, don't miss bats or K/9 enough hitters, and give up too many flyballs (and thus HRs).

Just been a terrible group to watch.

MG: its 63%, and the league average is 64%.

Okay, so Ramirez hasn't been awesome? He's retired every batter he's faced. I will admit it's a small sample size. In the world of relief pitchers who had a 6.00 ERA in AAA, that is nothing short of awesome. And, saying he hasn't pitched whole innings is not really relevant. That's Charlie's choice. And if he'd actually given Ramirez an inning and Diekman an inning last night instead of bringing in deer in the headlights DeFratus, the Phillies might have had a chance. Didn't Ramirez pitch two spotless innings the other night?

When you have a hot reliever, you ride him until he cools off. If he is armweary, you give him a day off. But if he's young and healthy and ready to go, you don't take him out after two hitters and waste another reliever on one hitter. Especially when you know your bullpen sucks.

marketing utilized by marketers, politicians canvassing and in many cases spiritual organisations use their blog for expressing their sights about religion.The

Been real with this offense and their ability to strand runners youll need to 3 Venters to have a fighting chance.

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