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Thursday, June 13, 2013


We still suck

This team is so depressing.

"Each time he scored was a result of good baserunning."

Impossible. I've been told by the WIP baseball experts that the guy is just a stupid fundamental player on the bases and in the field.

Thank you, Cliff Lee! And some miracle of offense that broke out for 2 whole runs in the 8th.

Lee had a blister, otherwise he'd have pitched the eighth.

They might actually miss Tulo, Cargo and Fowler in COL. Talk about lucky.

Oh, yes. Thanks to Adams and Papelbon for doing what we want a BP to do.

GBrett - Yeah, two scoreless innings shouldn't be a lot to ask from 2 relievers making a combined $19M per year.

I missed the game and just looked at the box. Most improbable figures I can imagine. Phils outhit the Twins 16-3 and left 16 runners on, to their 1. 15 runners stranded through 7 and down 2-1. Comeback victory. It's like the Chewbacca defense.

It's like how millions of sperm swim to nowhere for every one that reaches the target.

Fair enough, GBrett, but those are typically wasted in a more or less pleasurable experience. Watching this team squander that many baserunners was anything but. Yay for dubious statistical anomalies that somehow still result in wins.

Lee is not amused. And that thing we did, getting hits but not scoring? 16+ hits and 3 runs or fewer has happened only 8 times since 1916.

Ok, that's a really good point, Sil.

Gbrett referencing your link..."Such a game has happened eight times in all of baseball since 1916"...Wow...Even when they hit it still turns out bad...

Nice job by Lee, Adams and Paps. But, is this team congenitally incapable of scoring more then 3 runs? 16 hits resulting in but 3 runs, even the wins are brutal.

Even when they win it is often ugly/by the skin of their teeth.

Still am a bit surprised they are bringing back Lannan to start Monday with no rehab appearances. Figured he would at least get in 2 rehab starts after being out for nearly 2 months. Desperation or stupidity. Not sure which one it is. Probably a little of both.

Like I said, it makes no sense.

Lannan made 2 rehab starts.

Can I please be traded sooner then later. After pap and I make all star team maybe then?

"Hello, I'm Mike Adams. I would like to speak to you today on behalf of Holders America, formerly Frequently Injured Former Closers of America. Do you know the names Melancon? Jansen? Rosenthal? Hell, even I dont. Too many times valuable arms get hurt or just plain lack guts or talent, and are forced to resort to work as set up men or even worse longmen or middle relief (cringes). Lets not even talk about being a's just too painful. So won't you dig deep and part with your hard earned cash for those of us who pitch less than 50 innings a year due to injury, friendly player managers or just simple sulking on the bench and saying "I'm not ready today, skipper."
Dial now, operators are standing I nurse my balky elbow.

I broke Tulo's rib with a sock full of quarters so I can be traded there with Paps. Hook a brother up.

I've been told by the WIP baseball experts that the guy is just a stupid fundamental player on the bases and in the field.

So can we infer from this statement that you think Revere has shown good fundamentals to date? Interesting.

"Still am a bit surprised they are bringing back Lannan to start Monday with no rehab appearances. Figured he would at least get in 2 rehab starts after being out for nearly 2 months. Desperation or stupidity. Not sure which one it is. Probably a little of both."

You are slipping lately with your petty criticisms MG. Lannan has made 2 rehab starts.

16 LOB and they only batted 8 that is hard to do

"When the smoke cleared, seven terrorists were wrapped helplessly inside the tarpaulin, and Strasberg was walking, head down, to the bulletin after surrendering his second grand slam to the same guy. Michael said, "I kinda feel bad about that. A little. But I had a job to do."

- from Life of a Baseball God, by "R. A. Marrow, II"

Almost as brutal a win as you can have without someone getting injured.

They're just not fun to watch at all. Why do we torture ourselves?

And I'm going out on a limb to say that "Clifford phifer Lee" is not really Cliff Lee. Mainly because I assume Cliff knows what his first name is.

Cliff ain't that smart. He makes me read the Archie comic to him every month.

That jughead is a funny m-therf-ucker!

I could care less if Ben Revere goes 6 for 6 in a game. For a team who has just come within a whisker of setting a record for LOB vs. scoring (16 LOB and 3 runs or fewer) his lack of slugging is poison for this offense.

Remember, folks we have an untouchable manager who desperately clings to his shot clean-up hitter a a fizzled 1st-round pick ostensibly because they might hit a home run. Home runs are worshiped by our manager. Ben Revere is incapable of hitting one. Nice job, r00b. You acquired Revere to ensure Charlie fails, right? Am I right?

Oh yea and the defensive wizard-kid Revere also tried to make a diving catch but missed. Both runners scored to give the Twins a 2-1 lead. The next time I read a comparison between Revere and Whitey Ashburn I'm gonna... well let's just say I might feel ill. For a while.

Boy, do I miss the hey day of our scrap-heap gems Shane Victorino and Jayson Werth. They were part of one of the most exciting lineups I've ever seen. Both could catch the ball, too.

Phillies will probably sign exactly none of these guys, but here's a pretty extensive list of this year's international free agent crop, for anyone who's interested:

"hitter a a fizzled" = "hitter and a fizzled"

Revere had a very good night and that catch was a tough one on replay. Maybe he shouldn't have tried to dive but he was trying to keep the game tied. If you look on the replay, Revere took a good route to the ball and closed well. It was just a pretty hard hit ball in the gap that didn't was a low line drive.

Lee has been a stopper for this team the last 2 months and one of the biggest reasons they are still clinging to around .500. Learned my lesson the hard way twice and wasn't going to bet against him again last night.

He has kind of gotten lost in what had been a very ho hum season but been one of the few Phils' players who has delivered and is worthy of All-Star consideration so far.

"In the eighth, the Phillies fought back and retook the lead. Kevin Frandsen, pinch hitting for Humberto Quintero, led off with a double and Revere reached on a bunt single. Michael Young singled in the tying run and Jimmy Rollins knocked in the go-ahead with an RBI groundout."

Its embarrassing that my favorite blog is written by people who don't even watch the game. And if Mike Wisniewski actually watched the top of the 8th inning, and THAT is his recap, then I'm even more embarrassed for him.

I should mention that the Phillies have been linked to the #4 guy on the list I posted, Luis Encarnacion. Draws a Aramis Ramirez comp (for what it's worth at 16 years old)

LOL: Phillies also reportedly interested in Micker Zapata who draws a Delmon Young comp...

lorecore: I usually only skim the headers.

jbird: The Phillies are strongly linked to a couple guys actually. They are said to be the favorite for Encarnacion, a power hitting 3B, who I've seen ranked around #5 overall.

Of all the things to complain about last night's game and cut_fastball complains about Ben Revere.

jbird: did not know about Zapata, where is he ranked? (your link froze up my crappy work computer).

Is the comp of Delmon Young of when he was in the minors? Or is it of now when he's grounding into double plays every chance he gets?

Ben Revere = Richie Ashburn - (Jayson Werth - Vic) / Maddux

Was there actually people comparing Richie Asburn and Ben Revere or was that just made up?

lorecore: I usually only skim the headers.
Posted by: jbird | Friday, June 14, 2013 at 09:23 AM

Just like the editors do.

lorecore: the link has a ton of videos, probably why it froze. They have Encarnation & Zapata ranked 4 & 5 respectively.

Cliff Lee on if he is committed to stay in Philly: "I don't have any control over that. I know that I want to win and I'll voice that to whoever. And that's that."

Iceman: "Impossible. I've been told by the WIP baseball experts that the guy is just a stupid fundamental player on the bases and in the field."

Dude, you sound like Phlipper. Never a good thing.

"Lee has been a stopper for this team the last 2 months and one of the biggest reasons they are still clinging to around .500. Learned my lesson the hard way twice and wasn't going to bet against him again last night.

He has kind of gotten lost in what had been a very ho hum season but been one of the few Phils' players who has delivered and is worthy of All-Star consideration so far."

Sounds like Cole Hamels of 2012. A stopper and flying under the radar as one of the few bright spots on the team last year. Now he can't buy a win and is trashed on a constant basis with or without merit. How quickly people forget around here. Oh, and he represented the Phillies at the ASG!

I don't like Clifton so I go with Clifford

Pegleg Howard is having trouble hitting the ball further than Revere's triple traveled last night. Pretty telling stuff.

SABR #43 in Philly July 31st - August 4th.

Phillies have a "Player's Panel" with only David Montgomery and Dan Baker confirmed, the rest 'TBA'.

I'm going to go out on a limb that Ruben Amaro isn't found within 10 city blocks of a SABR Convention.

Why go with SABR when what you're doing is working so well.
Yeah and people worry about my name. Bags are packed just hope rube sends me at Louis. As a wise man once said "baseball heaven"

Look, the only number that counts is the number on the bottom line.

I don't worry about SABR. Just production.

Is the SABR convention in Philly like having a NOW convention in Saudi Arabia?

Dan Baker? What for? Are they going to distract the people with some "Chase Uuuuutley" readings?

Why would St. Louis want Lee? They take C grade prospects and retread veterans at the end of their career and squeeze sub-3 era's out of them on the regular.

SABRmetrics have nothing to do with Production™.

What am I missing on that paragraph posted by lorecore?

Also, cut_fastball is gonna have a hell of a show in his basement today. The mice and hot water heater in the audience are gonna love it.

Y did Philly and Texas want me? Solidify pitching staff. Remember good pitching always beats good hitting. Plus since I can't beat em join em.

The guy makes more money every time he accepts a trade than I will make in my life.

Zambrano is 100% ready. 101 pitches in 5 innings,fits the Phils SP mode.

I am sure Zambrano will react properly when an outfielder plays a ball wrong or Howard triple pumps as he tries to throw to second.


Ben Revere = Richie Ashburn - (Jayson Werth - Vic) / Maddux

Posted by: The Evil Ed Wade | Friday, June 14, 2013 at 09:28 AM

Sweet! I love math.

.778 - (.820 - .767)/.733 = .705 it's a little high, try 2*(Werth - Vic)
.778 - 2(.820 - .767)/.733 = .633 pretty close...

HR per 162 games
2 - (23-13)/11 = 1 it's a little high, try 2*(Werth - Vic) again
2 - 2(23-13)/11 = 0 rounding down, right on the money.

.308 - (.267 - .275)/.285 = .336 way high, it must be 2*(|Werth - Vic|)
.308 - 2*(|.267-.275|)/.285 = .251 that's close enough

The true equation is:
Revere == Ashburn - 2*(|Werth - Vic|)/Maddox

It is actually called the Playa's Panel. I am confirmed.

Never thought I'd think these thoughts, but I actually wouldn't mind Zambrano in a middle relief role. He couldn't possibly do worse than what we've seen up to this point. Will he accept such a role? Would he rather be released than pitch out of the bullpen? Who knows...

lorecore is fine with incesssant mindless bashing, but when he and the other WIPidiots get called out on it by Iceman, he throws a hissy.

Now that Ryan Howard has become a higher-AVG, higher-OB, singles/doubles hitter, shouldn't he start going the other way to beat the shift?

If he did that, he could hit .285 with 15 HRs and an OB of .350. Bat him second.

clout: you're just mad that the phils bullpen has been losing games moreso than offense, which kills you since you've been harping on how bad the offense has been for months.

Shane: Well done

lorecore: What was wrong with the paragraph you posted?

tti: he wrote it from the boxscore. The dead giveaway is that Rollins had an "RBI Groundout" when in fact it wasn't a ground out, he made it to 1st when Morneau stupidly threw home instead, but the boxscore simply has the play as a fielder's choice.

and i mean...what about the rest of the inning? The opposing team pitching to our cleanup hitter with a man on 2nd/3rd after the past ball, but not our #5 hitter? Dyak's GIDP?

or no mention that Revere bunt single was actually an attempted sacrifice.

lore: That sounds like an awh post. You're basically criticizing Wisniewski because he didn't tell the story in the exact same way that you would have told it.

I really like the symmetry of a five game winning streak followed by a five game losing streak. Tells us all we need to know about this team.

bap: yeah tti made me go overboard, sounded quite lame.

My original complaint was just that we're getting thread headers from people just scanning the published boxscores and not actually watching the game - that's all.

I don't know. Fielder's Choice is pretty different from a groundout.

lorecore: I made you go overboard? From the start you were criticizing Mike for posting what happened other than he made a simple error in referring to the fielder's choice as an RBI groundout.

You looked like a douche in saying basically what happened and using it to criticize the writer. Own up to your silliness instead of saying I made you go overboard.

St Louis trading for Lee would be dumb on a couple of accounts especially given what his huge contract would due to their payroll.

Hamels hasn't pitched as well and there have been a bunch of good articles published that reflect that. He been better of late but he has taken a step back so far this year from what he has been the last 3 years.

You're right lore. Secretly, I want to have your baby, and am just acting out.

St. Louis loves me

Wins like last night drive me bonkers. I hate the Monday Morning Quarterback thing some folks do - "Hey, they won, stop bitching!" (not referring to anyone here, btw...) I would rather do the right thing and lose, then do the wrong thing and win - if you do the right thing on a consistent basis, you will be rewarded over the long haul, whereas doing the wrong thing and getting lucky will tend to defuse criticism and reduce the likelihood of necessary changes being made.

Phillies ace Cliff Lee was noncommittal when asked by reporters (including's Jim Salisbury) if he'd like to stay in Philadelphia even if things don't turn around: "I definitely want to win. There’s no doubt about that. I want to win. I don’t know how to say it besides that. I want to win." Lee did go on to say he preferred to win in Philadelphia, but avoided discussing the possibility of pitching for another team.

Need I say more?

I love when reporters ask "Gotcha" questions and players don't take the bait. Then those same reporters refer to the player being "noncommittal" because he answered the question in the most professional manner.

I'm with lorecore (new T-shirt slogan?); whether or not Mike actually watched the game, it reads like it was transcribed from the At Bat apps game log, and that blandness and lack of depth (no runs with 2nd/3rd and no outs with your 4/5/6 hitters deserves a shout out) is the problem.

At risk of kvetching my way into TTI's doghouse (douchehouse?), the third (and possibly most) terrible thing about the Wietzel-less BL - beside the (lack of) analysis in the headers and the Draftstreet promotions - is the absence of the conversation JW used to have with the commenters.

He'd not only appear in the comments to make a point or debate occasionally, but would often post the best and most provocative points from the thread in the headers. Corey engaged a little earlier this season, but the posts and the comments are now two completely separate components that happen to share a site (and are notably distinct in quality).

Oh, and number four is the lack of photoshopping or any attempt at artfulness in the header presentation. Step it up, guys... what are we paying you for?

Hey, Ben Revere did have a very good game. And the reason everyone noticed? Because he has sucked so hard the rest of the time.

In fact, Revere is doing to Minnesota what every player who leaves there does to Minnesota. And the same thing that everyone who leaves the Phillies does to Philly. In the universe of centerfielders, Ben Revere is exactly what Rod Barajas is to catchers. A player who sucks, but bedevils his former team.

He is having a series for the history books, but when all is said and done, he is still a poor centerfielder who has a popgun bat. The fact that he is what he is is not his fault. It is Rube's fault for putting his popgun bat in a lineup almost totally devoid of pop in its other bats.

And watching Michael Young play has convinced me that he is the healthy version of Plocido Polanco, except that he sucks at third base. A singles hitter with no speed. It's like they painted Young's face on Polanco at the plate. Then they sent Ty Wigginton out to field for him. And I'm sure it's a coincidence by the Phillies are paying MYoung just about the 6 million they were paying Polanco.

JW didn't share his opinion in comments enough, but I guess that's a good way of staying "above" all the comment pettiness, and have his thoughts make more of an impact.

That Cliff Lee piece is ridiculous. The questions were asked in such a way that there were only two responses possible.

"If Lee's main desire is to win, would he be content to play out the remainder of his contract on a team that's not winning with regularity?"

He can either say "Yeah losing is OK with me" or "Yeah in that situation they should trade me" Both of which are sensational click-bait articles waiting to be written. Ask Stephen Strasburg the same question. Ask anybody.

Except Lee wouldn't play along and tried to be rational. "I want to win here. That’s why I signed here. And that’s where my focus is."

Doesn't sound noncommittal to me. A perfectly rational answer that wouldn't make for a big story.

The more conspiratorial among us might wonder if this could involve a writer or two sympathetic to management just laying the groundwork for a fictional narrative where management could say "Look Cliff Lee demanded to be traded, Our hands were tied!" I don't know about that, for now I'll just assume it's bored writers trying to invent interest around a struggling team.

Clout has shown more legit humanity in that one post than 2 seasons of watching his histrionics.

MYoung is one of those guys who looks better from afar (when you see him on TV on occasion and look at his stats once in a while).

Perils, I believe the Doucehouse is where TTI resides. It is near the new fancy petting zoo.

RedBurb: Exactly.

"Hey, Ben Revere did have a very good game. And the reason everyone noticed? Because he has sucked so hard the rest of the time."

Since May 1: .316/.360/.728.

Yes, he has sure 'sucked' the last six weeks.

For comparison's sake, Span over the same time period: .255/.297/.687

Since he's stopped writing the headers, the few JW comments he makes are almost always negative. Legit, but negative. Someone had a good conspiracy theory awhile back that said csn didn't want their affiliated blog ripping the Phils all the time, so they bumped him up elsewhere and handed BL to the others. Likely untrue, but fits.

Don't like petty beefs, generally. But a FC, when the runner actually gets on base and no out is made? That's not a ground out at all.

Stylistically, I would say that Howard whiffing, followed by an intentional walk to elicit the inevitable Double-YakGak, is not exactly "fighting back."

iceman: good look at span. He's making $6M this year, only under control for 1 more year($9M option), and was dealt for a top 60 prospect.

Revere is $500k this year, controlled through 2017, and dealt for a potential crash and burn SP in Worley, and a much lesser prospect.

Meyer and May have comparable stats so far this year, but May is repeating AA and still has high BB%.

What kind of player did folks think Ben Revere was? He was the FO's 3rd or 4th option in CF and he was never looked at as a core player to build around. I'm really confused at the amount of vitriol hurled in his direction by posters here and fans of the team.

Grant it he has been worse than his normal line but to delude yourself into thinking he was the missing piece on a team with the holes this team has, that's your fault, not the team's.

Perils: Excellent critique of post-Weitzel BL. here's another problem: JW didn't tolerate the name-changing children who think they're so clever. He'd expose 'em and then ban 'em. That no longer happens and it's another reason why traffic here is falling fast.

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