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Wednesday, May 22, 2013


Jack, re: your last post, are you implying that an oblique strain for Utley is something that the team should've forseen?

Vance Worley optioned to AAA. Ouch!

RedBurb: I'm saying it's a little disingenuous to say it's just a total matter of bad luck.

Amaro went into this season trying to contend with a team centered around older players with major injuries in the last couple seasons. Hard to claim bad luck when it turns out those guys get injured.

Prediction: Worley will never again play at the MLB level.

Zolecki: "Twins have optioned Vance Worley to Triple-A."

Sorry. Didn't see it had already been posted.

So we traded a pair of minor-leaguers for a starting CF? We win!

buster - Correction. Platoon CF.

Buster, you're funny.

I'll be Worley gets his issues worked out, the same way KK did.

I still think he'll be a solid #3/4.

"Vance Worley optioned to AAA.[...]"

Ohhhh, so that's what it looks like when an organization admits an acquisition isn't panning out like they planned. I'm certain the Twins front office will suffer some sort of excruciating long-term flogging that will ruin their standing at MLB cocktail parties or something.

Luckily, the Phillies front office is way too clever to fall into that trap. As long as they stay the course on any move for a season or more, nobody can possibly tell they've made any mistakes. Ever!

At least the Phillies don't have a closer calling out a starting RF about an alligator arm play in the OF last night.

Feels like a 3-2 win.

Mick O, this front office NEVER makes a mistake - just ask them. They get guys who give them "production".

Especially guys they select in the Rule 5 Draft.

Harper has a lot more guts than brains. I've never been favorably impressed by his defensive play. As someone once said of Shane Victorino, "He won't build you a rocket, but he'll be the first one to volunteer to ride it."

Be that as it may, calling out teammates in the media is BS. I'd bench Soriano for that if I were the manager.

Todd Zolecki ‏@ToddZolecki

Phillies announce Brad Lidge will retire as a Phillie. He will be honored Aug. 1. Curt Schilling inducted into Wall of Fame, too.


I guess clinching a WS trumps the 6 years he spent establishing himself in Houston.

That, or Houston didn't want to pay the $1 salary or whatever to sign him for one day.

Any chance Brad wants to toss an inning before it's official?

Sounds like the rough start is starting to get to the Nats.

They need more Natitude!

***Phillies announce Brad Lidge will retire as a Phillie. He will be honored Aug. 1. Curt Schilling inducted into Wall of Fame, too.***

That's Lidgetastic!!!

I hate Revere in #2 hole. If he's hitting, let him leadoff, and if he's not bury him down low.

#2 hole just sucks for him.

The Phillies should pass out towels so the fans might cover their heads whilst Schilling is inducted.

LHB vs Slowey this year: .912 OPS
RHB vs Slowey this year: .628 OPS

Yes, lets start Delmon Young.

oh yea, lets hit him 5th too.

lorecore: Sit Delmon now? Just when he's starting to produce? What next, encourage guys to take a few pitches, maybe work a Walk? Insanity!

The supposed Philadelphia Phillies "Core" still has some value despite their flaws. I think MG said it not long ago. If they where surrounded by the right supporting casts. Unfortunately the one downfall is the whole core is liable to be out injured all at once. As well as just cant help but wonder if Utley knee's will fall off at any given moment.

wait nevermind, Delmon Young has 346 RBI vs RHP and only 142 RBI vs LHP. I stand corrected.

Mick O. is fast becoming one of my favorite posters. First, he provided us all with the little "Jump to Newest Link" button to add to our Bookmarks. Now he has figured out a way to weave in a criticism of the Phillies' front office after a trade in which the guy we gave away just got demoted to AAA.

"That, or Houston didn't want to pay the $1 salary or whatever to sign him for one day."

I hear that Monty and Lidge struck an under-the-table deal whereby Lidge gets to retire as a Philly provided he reimburses the team for his $1 salary.

Lidge gets to retire w/ the Phillies provided he pays back the $1.00, & agrees to reenact the falling-to-his-knees celebration when the club marks the 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th & 25th anniversary of the '08 World Champions in a wholly misguided & ultimately futile attempt to distract the fans from remembering it has been 5, 10, 15, 20 & 25 years since the Phillies last won a World Series.

Ever since I've been talking about trading away pending FA this year, I noticed something about the team structure - their core has been mainly built through value in scarce positions.

In 2012-3 they have above average hitting C SS 2B and great mid level starters and a closer. Those are all premium positions that teams always need help finding. Logic would tell you that a team with strong players at those positions would make a great team because traditionally the surrounding players can be found much more easily.

Instead they have had an atrocious time filling the corner IF, OF, and middle relief positions with any type of value - spots where the general rule of thumb is that those spots can be had in most farm systems and cheap/platoon type FAs.

So basically, the Phils have excelled the prior years because they were getting great values out of hard to find positions, and then more easily building around it with more easily accessible players. The inability for RAJ to find valuable players in the more 'common' areas of a baseball team is even a more damning evaluation of his ability as a GM.

lorecore, if we have all of this value at premium positions, in the waning year(s) of their contracts, we'd be foolish to not attempt to capitalize on that leverage.

That said, we won't, and if we do, RAJ is the guy gauging the return. Start up the business cases as "what not to do" will manifest itself right before our very eyes.

Great post, lorecore.

New pictures, by the way. These are of Cholly "examining" Ryno's "knee". Got my bus ticket already, bitches!

lore: I wonder if giving out a 5-year, $125M contract for a below average player at one of these "easily accessible" positions had anything to do with their current problems in filling these easily accessible positions? Just a theory I'm throwing out there . . .

Excellent post by lorecore (4.52PM)

I think Rube just got confused. He thought it was best to find easily available guys who could play *all* the other spots on the roster. Thus, Mini-Mart.

The secret to my sudden offensive explosion is simple. Roob told me if I kept slacking off, he was going to acquire every Jewish player in the league and start them every day. An entirely Jewish locker room, other than yours truly. The horrors!

BAP - Add to Howard's deal that a .500 team is paying $13M/year for its closer - that's nearly 1/4 of the current payroll for a worse-than-average 1B and a pitcher (albeit a very good one) who will throw only 65-70 innings a season.

I have tickets for, and look forward to Wall of Fame Night every year. (Though, it was better, of course, back in the day when Harry MC'd.)
I will cheer loudly for Schill....Top 5 all-time Phillie pitcher. I was in the stands for his classic Game 5.

AWH: I think he'll get a lot of his groove back as well, but it was a comment made in jest, which I hope came across based on the wording.

I was surprised we didn't see any 'season = over" posts in the Utley thread. Guess most people already feel that way.

I hope against hope that sentiment is wrong. Amaro isn't going anywhere anytime soon despite what the record is this year. Not until after the '14 season at the earliest.

Don't want Amaro here for the rebuild or the people around him but it will take a few bad seasons in a row and a huge fail in attendance for change to occur.

However, I'd add "Closer" to the list of largely fungible, & certainly overvalued, positions. It doesn't make sense to pay out the tookus for one, esp. not when the core of the club has become a geriatric ward.

Never understood why Schilling got a bad rep in Philly. He delivered in the '93 playoffs, was a horse here who always wanted to stay in a game, and only demanded a trade and criticized the front office for being cheap when it was a very valid criticism.

Yeah he was a bit of a blowhard and even a jerk at times but he said what was on his mind. Yet he got really criticized for it.

Other players don't say anything and they get criticized for not speaking to the media.

Alot of times in Philly you can't win as an athlete with a decent percentage of fans.

As seen on Herr Seidman's new CSN article:

“I think [Charlie] probably takes as much responsibility as I do. We’re all in this thing together,” Amaro explained. “We think we have a better club than what’s been happening on the field. Hopefully we started to see some signs of guys getting out of it – Ben Revere’s been swinging the bat a little bit better. We’ve got to get Delmon Young going and he can provide some offense for us.

“But if they don’t do that, it’s my responsibility. This is a club that I put together.”

Papelbon is on pace for a 62.22 inning season. From 2006-2012 he averaged about 66.5 innings per year. Seems amazing he's on track to leave only ~4.25 innings on the table.

The modestly of Amaro since last June when the Howard story broke and this team went into a tailspin has been pretty surprising. Not nearly as standoffish even on the call-in show even with some of the dumbest questions/suggestions.

"We’ve got to get Delmon Young going and he can provide some offense for us."

Does he mean, like, get him on a West Bound bus or give him more Ex-lax? I mean, when you gotta go, you gotta go; but how exactly?

wait nevermind, Delmon Young has 346 RBI vs RHP and only 142 RBI vs LHP. I stand corrected.

Posted by: lorecore

FINALLY someone on Beerleaguer gets it.

You gotta give young blood like Reggie Taylor and Lou Collier a shot.

What the hell does Amaro think Delmon Young is going to do coming off a serious injury and hasn't had a good offensive season since '10?

Lidge will sign a one day contract with the team, will be put on the DL for 3 hours, then retire.

MG- it would be a lot easier to say 'season = over" if the Nats and Braves had buried them in the standings. That isn't the case.

I'm not going to sit here and paint a rosy picture of what's happening, as all of the caveats to being successful (Howard, Utley and Halladay being healthy) have gotten shot to sh*t in less than two months. But if you look at things objectively, they couldn't be getting worse production out of the C and 1B positions. Kratz couldn't have been worse the first few weeks, and he surely won't be that bad again (hopefully). And it isn't the worst thing in the world to be getting Galvis ABs, as he's been swinging well and is an upgrade defensively at 2B. And Howard...I mean, it can't get worse at that position. If he does head to the DL, it will probably improve the team and certainly improve the lineup vs. LHP. Manuel will be forced to put together the lineup he should have all along against lefties.

To tell you the truth, the biggest things I think that need to happen are A) Get Revere in the lineup everyday, and B) Get DYoung the hell out of there and either platoon Nixberry or give Ruf a shot. I don't think the Utley/Howard losses are going to drag the team down much from where they are currently. The starting pitching has been very good. If that gets worse, yeah, it's going to get ugly. But if they keep getting good starts from Pettibone, once Lannan comes back, I think it's a good pitching staff.

Honestly, the season was probably over when Halladay went down. They needed the Doc of old to compete for the playoffs, I think. But I'm still holding out hope that I'm wrong and they find a way to get it together.

What the hell does Amaro think Delmon Young is going to do coming off a serious injury and hasn't had a good offensive season since '10?

Posted by: MG | Wednesday, May 22, 2013 at 05:49 PM


I agree with Iceman 556

All we need to do now is find a replacement for Rollins and Howard, and we got a whole new team, with possibilities the past four year's team couldnt produce...

NEPP: Well, I probably wouldn't mind if he bagged my groceries, it's true.

BAP: I missed Mike's "Jump to the newest post" directive. Could you repeat it for me (and maybe others)? Thanks.

As for tonight, it's all lined up for a Lee gem. Call it a gut feeling. This lineup is putrid and if Lee is on, I bet he has one of his classic CGSOs where the opposition barely puts up a fight.

2-0 Phils with another productive night from Dom (2-run bomb).

Remember last year when those of us who pondered if Howard should have even come back, rather than just sit out the whole year to better position him to be 100%, were skewered? Then, when he did come back, and egregiously underperformed, lumbering around like Pat Burrell at 2 AM on South Street, and we thought they should go ahead and shut him down, because he was doing more harm than good? He finished 2012 at a 80 OPS+ at one of those "non premium" positions that lorecore had some great insight about. He's off to a 95 OPS+ so far this year (I know, I know, Howard lovers - it hasn't yet "heated up" or whatever).

Well, I guess what I'm saying is, when you have a guy where so many are vocally ASKING for him to be put on the DL because he's actually underpeforming replacement level players and potentially blocking a solid prospect, for going on a full year now, maybe it's not so great to be paying him $100M for the foreseeable future.

Now, I know that many will offer up "but they didn't know he'd be perpetually hurt when he signed the extension..." To which I'd posit, perhaps signing him to an extension before he needed to be signed to an extension wasn't the smartest move in the world.

Simply put, you'll be hard pressed to find someone making more for contributing less for the last 11 months. Even Pujols' "underperformance" this year is to the tune of a 105 OPS+.

Anyway, not to sound like Jack for beating the dead Howard horse, but in short, this contract is, indeed, hurting this team both actively (as they're financially forced to play him), as well as from an opportunity cost perspective (as in it limits salary to fix other issues with the roster).

The saddest part of all of it is that as long as we're getting the very occasional upper-body-only long ball from him, they'll continue to hobble him out there day after day, ignorant to the affect on the final total product on the field.

Though, I suppose they'd have re-signed him anyway. Amaro probably salivates at his "production," ignoring any secondary stats.

His previous contract was set to run through the end of 2011. He signed the extension in April of 2010. If they had waited until the end of 2011, he was finishing up a .253/.346/.488 season, good for a 126 OPS+.

A good year, to be sure. Though, if you look at the OPS+ trend, perhaps it wouldn't have been quite as lucrative, as he'd have had two more years of declining "production.":

2004 122
2005 133
2006 167
2007 144
2008 125
2009 141
2010 127
2011 126

Howard cashed in at the right time.

Nats pen just blew it again

Lemme fix your chart there, WP.


2004: 5
2005: 63
2006: 149
2007: 136
2008: 146
2009: 141
2010: 108
2011: 116
2012: 128 (full season pace)
2013: ~100 (full season pace)

The only numbers that matter (to the people who actually make the decisions).

Curious at what the crowd will be in DC this weekend. Ol Natitudes attendance is up, but not overwhelming numbers. Both teams stuggling, but our fans tend to trek to DC and we have many living there.

Adams, recovering from a back strain, threw a strenuous bullpen session Wednesday. According to pitching coach Rich Dubee, Adams will throw again Friday in Clearwater and pitch in a minor-league game Monday. Dubee said Adams could be activated Tuesday or Wednesday, if all goes well.

Adams said he was feeling good. In fact, he believes he could be ready by Sunday, but will defer to team officials as they make the final call.

I'd just as soon keep Adams on the DL until Wednesday, and use the roster spot for a DH. Too bad we don't have someone in AAA who is known for his offensive prowess, particularly one who might like pounding a ball or two off that Green Monster...

*this is all precluded on the basis that the Phils actually DL one or more of the current walking injured to, you know, try to find 25 guys who can actually play on the same day...

I agree Lorecore thats the gist of it. Luck possibly paid a part of it when they scored with Shane/Werth.

WP: Technically they don't need to DL anybody else - just option someone back down.

Though I don't know if they're allowed to do that yet with Cloyd or Rosenberg. I can't remember which side of the MiLB/MLB line the minimum duration is.

Holy sh8t, look at all those empty seats.

MYoung 6 RBI away from 1000?

Well, I guess there's always next season.

Maybe bittel was right. Rollins was out bya good deal there.


Not even close, Jimmy. Although the chances of anyone else moving you up were decidedly slim.

Worley to AAA doesn't surprise me. I thought ( before they traded him ) he would have been moved to the pen for the shear fact he couldn't go past 6 innings. Would have looked better as a long man.

7 SB attempts, tossed out 3 times...

Watching Delmon Young run = high comedy.

i almost didn't recognize clean-shaven cliff.

Lee is the perfect pitcher for tonight. Work quickly and get out of this ridiculous AA atmosphere. Win, get to the weekend against a vulnerable Natitude team

Up is Down
Black is White
Howard Goes the Other Way?!?

Howard slapping one to 3B/LF!

"Delmon Young is fiiiining his swing."

I just threw up in my mouth.

wtf DOM, you gotta crush Slowey

Cortisone for MVP.

pitcher like Cliff Lee should be thinking Perfect Game when facing the Marlins.

I think about my collection of My Little Ponies. I call the pink one Ace!

pitcher like ____ should be thinking Perfect Game when facing the Phillies

Is there anything above a perfect game?

Because if there is, that's what Lee should be thinking about.

We need to get Chooch to buy Google Glass and wear behind the plate.

Great....this should end well.

"Lee is the perfect pitcher for tonight. Work quickly and get out of this ridiculous AA atmosphere..."

You're being pretty generous, aren't you? I KNOW I've seen bigger crowds at Reading Phillies games.

Lee apparently attempting to lower his trade value ...

This is going swimmingly

Haha Willard, so true

guy who's 1-11 will now give them a 2 run lead

Thank goodness the Marlins' offense is this bad. Any other team would have scored one or two there.

Man, the Marlins really Philliesed up that opportunity.

2013 Phillies!

Wait, was Cliff Lee facing the Phillies there?

Kind of looked like it.

Rollins never steals a valuable base. Sorry to say. He's been caught 3 times out of seven measly attempts.

GTD: i think that would be Ph'd up.

I honestly don't know why Kratz EVER sees a single fastball

Slowey Ks 4 out of the first 9

Rollins never steals a valuable base. Sorry to say. He's been caught 3 times out of seven measly attempts.

Posted by: bittel | Wednesday, May 22, 2013 at 07:47 PM

"valuable bases"

bittel, you've really outdone yourself this time.

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