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Friday, May 03, 2013


Amaro seems to get obsessed over acquiring a player (see Halladay) and doesn't let go.

I don't want them trading away Cliff Lee or Chase Utley. I like Chooch, but a trade of him makes sense down the road. I'd like to keep JRoll and Paps, but if they go, I won't have a broken heart like if it were Lee or Utley going out the door.

Ha ha

I'll let you all discuss this. Giancarlo is an exciting young player, that's for sure. However, I've been feeling like we need to put more into developing young players. I would make sure I had a lot of different perspectives among scouts and player development people and that these were smart, perceptive baseball people. It's too expensive to acquire everyone via trade and when your minor league cupboard is bare, you have no one good with which to supplement the veterans and free agent acquisitions in order. - - I would try to follow the Braves' formula, because they seem to remain mostly competitive through the years.
* * *

I saw this on Rotoworld:

David Murphy of the Philadelphia Daily News writes that the "sense" before Thursday's game is that Ben Revere "will be a night-by-night proposition for the foreseeable future."
Revere is nursing a swollen right ring finger, but the feeling is that he probably would have played through it Thursday had he been performing at the plate. The outfielder is batting .204 with a .471 OPS that ranks dead last among qualified NL hitters. Revere entered the season as a respectable .278 hitter, and more balls will surely start falling in for him eventually. For now, though, expect to see plenty of John Mayberry in center field. May 3 - 9:08 AM
Source: Philadelphia Inquirer and Daily News

They need to trade everyone for prospects and hope 4 or 5 they get pan out! And combine that with some smart big market spending! I would trade Lee, kendrick, Halladay, both Youngs, Utley, Rollins, Ruiz & Papelbon and Adams! Play the 2nd half of the year with this lineup!

1) C Hernadez
2) F Galvis
3) C Asche
4) R Howard
(Can't trade the contract)
5) Darin Ruf
6) Dominic Brown
7) Tommy Joseph
8) Ben Revere

Pitching Staff
1) Hamels
2) Biddle
3) Pettibone
4) Morgan
5) A Young pitcher

That team would be hard pressed to win 70 games.

I've been as critical as anyone on Revere's offense.

But I thought the whole point of the trade was that it gave you your starting CF for the next three years. You're now benching him because he struggled for four weeks?

That seems like a bit of an overreaction. Phillies knew (or should have known) when they were getting him that he was a poor offensive player, and they did it anyway. When a bad offensive player has a slump, it's really bad, but it's still just a slump. Let the kid play, if you really got him to be your starting CF.

Took KK like 5 years to get past that "Traded to Japan" prank.

Intriguing prospects for acquiring a guy like Stanton. On one hand he's still cheap for a while, on the other hand he costs a bunch of players. But really would anyone bat an eye if Stanton came to the Phils for Biddle and a bunch of nothing (which will never happen because everyone mentioned or possible is truly a bunch of nothing)?

Saying that a trade for Stanton would be detrimental because of the impact to the farm system is like saying that trading a bunch of junk parts for a new reliable car is a bad move because now you have less junk.

Jesse Biddle's can be found in other drafts. Giancarlo Stanton's are much harder to come buy.

Gbrett is right on the money. Trading away the farm is not a sustainable model for long term success. Why the Phillies would even entertain a trade that would gut an already hurting farm system is beyond stupid.

Who cares how many games they win they need to get rid of the older players! They should have done it gradually over the last couple of years now they will have to do it all at once! Next year you build through free agency and all the talent you brought back with those trades!

541 - Your logic is the same as people who said it was ok to trade for Hunter Pence.

The Cleveland Indians optioned Phillie Killer 9-Pitch Trevor Bauer back to AAA Columbus, yesterday. It was a preplanned that this would be a spot MLB start for Bauer and that he'd go back down for further less pressured seasoning. He looks like a real prospect to watch, although he's barely pitched in the high minors (not even 180 innings between AA and AAA).

The Indians also claimed Phillies castoff Ezequiel Carrera off waiver, too. They must have Rube's illegitimate brother as their GM. Maybe the Indians would be interested in acquiring Mini Mart? The thought of Mini Mart lurking in our system continues to give me the creeps.

From Mandy Housenick:

In 93 at-bats, Revere has grounded into double plays five times. A year ago, he did that only eight times in 511 at-bats.

"I've never been the type who got doubled up a lot in my career," Revere said. "I'm doing it a bunch right now. I know I'm hitting the ball hard, just a bunch right at them."


The farm system has already been gutted. You're basically trading Biddle for Stanton. Your organization has ZERO outfield talent and multiple pitching prospects.

Trading Biddle, Pettibone, Galvis, "difference-making bast (that one made me laugh)" is not exactly setting you back years and years.

I do however agree with the overall philosophy of re-strengthening the organization from the ground up. Just don't necessarily agree that this is the way to do it.

The only trade for Stanton that would make sense is if the Phils went into sell mode and hooked up a 3-way trade with MIA and a contender. But what contender would want to trade prospects that would enable the Phils to get Stanton in exchange for the Phils' vets? Likely that team would want Stanton itself.

Less wins = Less fans in attendance = Less gate revenue = Less payroll = Less free agents. Not a hard concept to understand if you are logical. Obviously you lack that.

541 - Which is why the trade would never happen. The Rangers could pony up 10 times the amount of prospects the Phillies have. I'm criticizing the FO for even thinking they have the pieces to do this. It would NEVER happen.

I recall jbag claiming that the Furcal signing was the much smarter move than the JRoll signing. I also recall when jbag claimed the Kendrick extension was the worst signing of Amaro's tenure. But what do you expect when jbag has a basketball fan's attention span.

Revere said he is still trying to learn the NL pitchers. I do think he is still feeling his way and trying to establish himself on the team. Maybe pressing a bit.

One of the ESPN commentators, the last time our game was televised by them, mentioned how Revere enjoys interacting with fans on Twitter but suggested he might want to lay off that for now - sounded like he was suggesting this so that Revere wouldn't feel extra pressure from too many fan comments.

As was mentioned yesterday, his ceiling may be only that of a singles hitter. But still, that would be an improvement and wouldn't hurt the team.

On the other hand, if our other outfielders do a good job, they obviously have more power than Revere.

Why, why does this organization refuse to put a hurt player on the DL instead of keeping them on the roster as 'day-to-day' when they are clearly hurt and should be retroactively put on the 15-day DL?

People yammer on about the lack of emphasis on sabermetrics but to me the glaring deficiency from the glimpses you get & how they approaches thing is how they handle & deal with injuries. It also seems to border on gross incompetence.

You had the Howard fiasco last spring where Amaro was exposed as liar and had to backpedal. Utley story this spring where he and his agent have immediately bypassed this organization twice in the past 4 years to get outside treatment/expertise. Strange way in which Halladay was handled last year. You could list a few more too.

It just seems to me like you traded for a singles-hitting plus-defensive CF, knowing exactly what he was going to be.

Now you're surprised at what he is? I mean, sure, he's in a slump. A bad one. But he's also going to get hot at some point and hit .330 for a month (with all singles, but still). At the end of the year, he's likely to have hit .280-.290 with a .670 OPS, 30 SBs and good defense. If you think four weeks changes that, or if you think that wasn't what you were getting, I don't understand that.

I get giving the guy a few days to get his head on straight. And maybe something's going on behind the scenes we don't know about. But the idea that he's now not the everyday CF because he had a bad month? That's bad.

Stanton is 23. If he weren't a;ready established in the bigs he would be the kind of prospect people think the Phillies should acquire. He is what the Phillies hope their own 22 and 23 year-olds turn into in a few years.
So yes acquire him at all costs. The goal is not to have a well regard minor league system. The goal is to have a good and ideally young team on the field in Philadelphia. Stanton is a step in that direction even if it doesn't happen for a year or two. I'd be willing to go Lee to another team for kids to package with Biddle, etc for Stanton.

On 2014:
Needs are 2B, 3B, the OF?, C, the middle relief, & 2 starters

If they want to contend, that seems like a long shopping list depending on how the OF looks at the end of the season. Ruben may have no choice but to rebuild. We'll find out in 2-3 months.

"I know I'm hitting the ball hard ..."

He's joking, right?

"It just seems to me like you traded for a singles-hitting plus-defensive CF, knowing exactly what he was going to be."

You're right, Jack.

541 - Which is why the trade would never happen. The Rangers could pony up 10 times the amount of prospects the Phillies have. I'm criticizing the FO for even thinking they have the pieces to do this. It would NEVER happen.

Posted by: RedBurb | Friday, May 03, 2013 at 10:29 AM

Completely agree with this. I'm honestly surprised Salisbury even put this out there. To be quite honest, it makes Roob look like and even bigger Boob for continuing to perpetrate this nonsensical fantasy.

Think FLA would take Delmon Young, Michael Martinez, Tyler Cloyd, Trevor May, Gillies, Altherr, Hudson, (and whatever other toolsy outfield prospects we need to dump) and, like, a hundred cases of genuine Philly Cheesesteaks for Stanton?

Oh. And, like a gazillion dollars, too.

(I'd bet they'd take it if we tossed in Cisco; but we {darn!} don't have him any more.)

IE the 3 way trade.

It only works if the Phils find a partner needing pitching (ie Lee). The Marlins would get a big haul from both teams (say 3 prospects from Phils and 2 from 3rd team), the Phils would have to kick in money to defer some of Lee's money. So in the end it would probably take trading Lee & Biddle & other pieces just to get Stanton.

My concern in that scenario is I'd rather just move Lee and acquire more than one piece for the future.

Trading Biddle - the last actual pitcher in the system - would be asinine.

Agree with Jack. Revere should be out there pretty much every day if healthy, although I get that sometimes you should start Mayberry in CF against a lefty to get a better offensive lineup out there.

As long as he can hit .270, Revere is a valuable player. Phils need to see what he can do over the course of a season.

I'd consider trading Howard straight up for Stanton.

Less wins = Less fans in attendance = Less gate revenue = Less payroll = Less free agents. Not a hard concept to understand if you are logical. Obviously you lack that.

Check the attendance for this season attendence is all ready down because fans realize that the team is all ready a non contender. They need to take a step back and rebuild. They are about to sign a 5 billion dollar deal with comcast buddy i don't think there hurting at the bank! Tell me how many young free agents the Phillies have signed in the last 7 years! The answer none they just keep extending the same older players they had! Read a book on how to build a baseball team and come talk to me!

I'd consider trading Howard straight up for Stanton.

Posted by: Jack | Friday, May 03, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Me too. A 45 year old, 6 year retired Mike Stanton has to be better than Chad Durbin. Amirite?

Andy, your plan is doomed from the jump. The Phils already traded May. :)

Only way Phils could get Stanton is (i) if the Marlins are dumb; or (ii) they trade away Ruiz/Rollins/Lee/Doc/Adams and use those prospects to swing a deal for Stanton.

(ii) is more plausible and I'd be in favor of it. Given Stanton's age, it's not an "all in" move, and whatever prospects we'd be bringing in via trade would carry risks that are reduced in the case of Stanton.

If the Phils are playing .475 baseball in July, trade a bunch of vets for prospects. Maybe use some of those guys to get Stanton. Whatever. We'll see.

As much as 2012-2013 may be a struggle, the Phils are really well-positioned to build a good team in a few years

- Hamels and Lee under contract
- New cable deal in 2015
- a ton of veterans at premium (C, SS, SP, closer, set-up man) positions that they can move either at the deadline this year (Ruiz) or next year (Rollins)

As bad as they are, they have a ton of assets. A team like the Dodgers would take Rollins in a second. They have no SS.


They are doing exactly what they should be doing against the putrid teams, crushing them. Build up a good record (8-2 so far) against them, and shoot for .500 or better against the rest, which they need to improve on (swept by CIN and dropping 3 of 4 to PIT certainly didn't help).

Keep it going, Phils. I don't care who you beat. It's not like they make the schedule.

Texas could top any Phillies offer for Stanton without breaking a sweat. As long as they included Profar. A couple Ranger prospects have really faltered this year. Olt & Buckel (#2 & 4 ranked in their system) have been a mess coming out of the gate. Leonys Martin (#3) is in the majors putting up middling stats. Martin Perez (#7) is coming back from a broken wrist. Gallo (#11) & Mazra (#12) are hitting homeruns and little else, really poor contact rates. Ron Guzman (#13) is still in extended spring training.

On the plus side Justin Grimm (#5) is pitching well in the bigs, Luke Jackson (#6) is pitching well in A+ ball, Roughned Odor (#8) is off to a good start in A+, Nick Williams (#15) is hitting a lot and for good power, (but not walking at all).

So, the rangers are much, much deeper than the Phillies and have a lot of high upside guys, but on pure top end talent, Biddle probably makes a Phillies offer better than a Rangers offer that doesn't include Profar. A Biddle-Morgan-Franco (or whatever) offer would be tough to top. It could be topped, but not without a little pain for the Rangers.


The rest of your argument validated the very thing you were tired of hearing of.

The phils are killing the mets and marlins and are attrocious against everyone else. Good job in illustrating that.

Texas could top any Phillies offer for Stanton without breaking a sweat.

followed by

A Biddle-Morgan-Franco (or whatever) offer would be tough to top. It could be topped, but not without a little pain for the Rangers.

Not sure if this makes sense.

I just can't believe there isn't another team out there interested in Stanton that couldn't put together a better package for him than we would. We'd have to send them basically the entire farm system.

"The phils are killing the mets and marlins and are attrocious against everyone else. Good job in illustrating that."

Yea, I acknowledged it's been less than optimal so far, but I don't expect it to continue.

541: I wrote several sentences in between. Feel free to disagree with them with some facts or analysis of your own.

Really depends on what the Marlins would think of Olt who's been so bad the team had his vision checked, or the peripheral stats for guys like Nick Williams (hits but doesn't walk) vs Gallo & Mazra (Walk but don't hit). Right now, Biddle probably would be the Rangers #2 or #3 prospect so if they didn't include Profar, the Phillies offer would have a better headliner. That's all I'm saying. If I'm the Rangers, I include Profar because I have Kinsler and Andrus locked up, though Kinslers 30 and has been injury prone in the past.

Then Cyclic, certainly you have reasons to think that they will start winning games against the non-horrible teams out there, right?

The fact that the Phils are doing what they are supposed to do against Miami and NYM is not validation that they will play better against anybody else.

Yeah, I guess they didn't split with STL.

How many have they played against the class of the NL East? Oh, 3 games? And they won 1 of those.

MikeMcHugh: There's no such thing as a "young free agent." Either they didn't reach the majors until they were 25-26 anyway (6-year deal puts their FA at 31-32 at the earliest), or they're awesome and reached when they were 22-23 and their team extended them because they're awesome.

You just don't find any good FAs under 30 anymore. They're either traded away by the teams who can't afford them (and then locked up) before they finish their arb years, or they're locked up by the team that drafted/promoted them in the first place.

If you're signing great/star FAs you're signing them in their early-to-mid 30s, and likely either overpaying in AAV or # of years.

Cyclic, I was just questioning the opening tenor of your comment, versus the final conclusion which seemed to be a little out of whack.

Honestly, there is also a part of me that thinks everyone needs to back of on the Biddle love just a little bit right now. Suddenly we are putting Biddle in the same stratosphere as Profar and then ranking him ahead of Olt, etc because of 1 month of Minor League baseball. Just a little early to assume that Jesse Biddle closes a deal.

Thats all I'm saying.

If r00b does something stupid in order to obtain Stanton, he could set the franchise back another 5 years or more. The way in which he obsesses over certain players is frightening.

Phils would need to get something like 3 top 100 prospects trading guys like Lee/Rollins/Papelbon and then package those guy with Biddle/Joseph to match Olt/Profar. Maybe the Rangers wouldn't move them for Lee; maybe the Rangers would rather have Lee. I don't know. But, on paper, the Phils can't match 25 MLB teams in a fight for Stanton.

Crap, I meant jbird.

I guess my main point is that we shouldn't be complaining that they're only beating the Mets and the Marlins because that is what they're supposed to do.

We should be complaining that they couldn't at least split with CLE or PIT, or take 2/3 from a number of other teams.

To b!tch cause they are doing what they are supposed to do against bad teams seems strange to me.

Completely agree with MG re: the handling of injuries. It's really baffling but they keep doing it.

you know that "top 10 trade value list" i just posted last thread? Yeah, well the Marlins wouldn't trade Stanton for all 10.

I'm sure there are organizations that would have topped what Toronto gave up for Johnson/Buehrle/Reyes, organizations that would have topped what Seattle gave up for Lee, etc etc. Just because they can give up more doesn't mean A) they'd be willing to do it, or B) The marlins aren't dumb enough to realize it. You have to keep all your options open.

Split W L RS RA WP
ATL 1 2 9 16 .333
CIN 0 3 4 16 .000
CLE 0 2 2 20 .000
KCR 1 2 16 25 .333
MIA 3 1 13 6 .750
NYM 5 1 35 18 .833
PIT 1 3 10 15 .250
STL 2 2 18 14 .500

Not too mention the fact that against clubs not named MIA and NYM, they have been outscored 106 - 59.

But sure, just bring up STL and ATL. And disregard that this team has one of the worst run differentials in the entire MLB and thats with a +17 against the Mets alone.

"People yammer on about the lack of emphasis on sabermetrics"

Yes. It's all just yammering. The team relies on 7 year old scouting reports and employs its head analytical guy to operate the radar gun. Yammer yammer yammer.

541: I specifically said, "As long as they included Profar." it was right after the sentance you quoted. I like Olt, but he's hitting .139 right now after hitting .152 in his cup of coffee last year. The Rangers literally sent him to an eye doctor he's been so bad. I also said Biddle would be #2 or #3 in their system depending on how the Marlins viewed Olt's struggles. Baseball America ranked 2 Texas prospects between Biddle and Profar (Martin Perez & Olt) Perez broke his wrist and has a very spotty track record. I would take Biddle over Perez all day. So, there you go. Depends on what you think of Olt right now.

Who is complaining that they are winning? Seriously?

Or are you upset that people aren't sitting here losing their minds that they knocked of the mighty Marlins once again? Sorry, but until I see them take a series from anyone else, I will hold my enthusiastic applause.

One thing the Phillies are always very reluctant to do is "waste" options. JMJ would still have one if he didn't have too much service time, I believe.

I think that's the primary reason they do the day-to-day instead of DL trips. Although really, I don't feel like that's a bad move until they pass the back-dating point. Before then, all you're giving up is one player during the 5-day period whose replacement likely wouldn't have made a huge difference.

This is shaping up to be a rough year and I just think we should celebrate wins instead of discounting them based on the competition.

Hey man, I'm completely with you on that. I was very happy they got a win last night.

However, I'm not going to sit here and say I still think they can compete because they beat the Marlins.

Given the perilous state of the Phillies farm system, I'm not sure emptying it (again) can be justified for any one player, even one as advantageous as The Mighty Giancarlo Stanton. Putting all of your eggs in the basket of one player, even The Mighty Giancarlo Stanton, is probably going to blow up in your face.

As the logic of such a deal is that you intend to hold Stanton through his arbitration years and extend him out through the period when he'd begin to decline. That's a long time when the player in question is just 23, and given the Phils experience with megacontracts being torn to tatters by injuries, it's entirely possible that Stanton could have himself a career-altering injury along the way. That sets you up for the double-whammy emaciating already your beleaguered farm system to get the guy and being out vast sums of money through an extension that probably exceeds the Howard contract if he gets hurt. The injury risk is doubly concerning with Stanton, as he was banged up last year and is slated to spend a couple of weeks on the DL this season out of the gate at a time in his career when he should be injury-free.

I'm not giving up on the team just yet. I'm interested to see them in action when it comes to playing against contenders because I'm hoping that it may pick up their competitive energy a bit. To me it *feels* like they don't take stereotypically weak teams seriously and suffer for it (unless they're division rivals like the Marlins and Mets).

When winning started to become "old hat" at the end of 2011 when they clinched the division, they started losing more until they swept the Braves at the end. Last year they started out terribly and wound up in a rut in June and early July, only to pick things back up to the point where they were sniffing at the 2nd WC spot. What was the crusher then? They lost 3/4 to the Astros, of all teams. Was part of that a mental thing, thinking that they could cruise and then when they started losing they were pressing?

This year, sans one, the games against Cincinnati were close, they took 1/3 from the Braves (technically during their hot streak), and they split the series against the Cardinals. When they start really to feel the urgency I'm looking for them to do much better. The Giants and D-Backs games will be very telling.

"To be quite honest, it makes Roob look like and even bigger Boob for continuing to perpetrate this nonsensical fantasy."

541, let me correct your spelling:

*To be quite honest, it makes R00b look like and even bigger b00b for continuing to perpetrate this nonsensical fantasy.*

There, that's better, and more in keeping with the BL standard.

I don't know if trading for Stanton would mean they are all in. I would see it more as a move for the future and the rebuilding process, even though they'd be giving up a bunch of prospects. Stanton would be the RF for thenext ten years, while the prospects given up could turn out to be Marson / Donald / Carasco / Knapp.

awh: Not to nitpick, but you didn't even correct the most glaring spelling/grammar error there...

I don't want it to sound like I think the Phillies have the inside track on Stanton. I was just talking about Texas in particular as they've resisted moving Profar in the past. Teams that could beat any offer from the Phillies for Stanton without including their #1 prospect: Boston, NYY, Kansas City, Minnesota, Houston, Seattle, NYM, ChC, Pitt, StL, Arizona, Colorado. There's a couple teams that could make comparable offers to a Biddle headlined deal as well without including their top prospect.

Iceman - It is the same garbage you see about 'Big Data' plastered everywhere and anywhere.

Just because you have some capabilities & staff to do it doesn't mean it gives you any kind of real competitive edge especially if most people are using the same commerically avaiable products which feature the same metholodgy and metrics.

The Phillies don't need no stinkin' "Sabermetrics". Why, they have former PR intern Ed Wade on staff to evaluate players the scoutin' way!

The idea of getting Stanton is a fun one but two things on that:

1.) I think there are teams that could beat a Phillies package if they wanted him and the Marlins wanted to trade him there.

2.) This farm system is bad but there are some good glimmers there and an outside chance they could be an upper teen (moving towards 10) farm system if guys continue to progress like they are. At some point you need to say, "Stanton would be great, but the trade for him would further strain the weakened fabric of that aspect of our organization."

Look at the idea of what the Red Sox did. They held off on getting too crazy trading off pieces and now have some guys that have sprung forward that allowed them to move some guys (like Youk) make some nice free agent signings and get themselves right back into contention.

Please just FIRE RUBEN AMARO!!! He obviously doesn't know what he's doing!! And fire Rich Dubee also while your at it.

Yes. If there's one thing our team has proven over the years, it's that our pitching coaches are abysmal - and our pitchers' inability to perform in any situation has reflected that.

The thing with Revere that worries me after going back and watching some of his glorious 2012 is that he may not have skills that he can adjust when the league makes adjustments to him. Once the report is out that he absolutely cannot ever launch the ball, it may have changed how he gets pitched/defensed. I don't know what adjustments he can make. Even when he had success it was by blooping the ball into holes in the defense, often on the left side. If he doesn't have the strength to drive the ball over the way they pitch/defense him now I don't know what else he can do to make an adjustment to improve. But, I'm not clout so I don't know.

In the first 94 games of 2012 (selected only because of the arbitrary month cut off end of August) he hit .303 off a babip of .331

Over the last month of the season, (30 games) he hit .263 off a babip of .303. (no doubles, 1 triple)

I can't say for sure that this is because the scouting report got out on him or not. I have no idea.

I mean yes he was a 2.6 WAR player for the year... but the "old eyeball test" seems to say he's not gonna be even close to a .300 hitter going forward and he can be defensed. I normally deride the old eyeball test so I don't know what to think here.

But, my main point of this post is that *IF* he does turn out to be more of a .250 - .260 hitter, it will be tragic irony that it's something the ol' scouts should have seen -- when that's what Rube supposedly values more than the WAR.

Revere hit .258 on groundballs last year (299 AB); he's hitting .179 on GB this year (56 AB).

Wonder where he'll end up.

He's also hitting just .615 on line drives after hitting .742 last year.

NL hit .238 on groundballs last year and .707 on line drives. Guy's been terrible at the plate, but he needs more AB.

If that decline is due at all to improved defensive positioning, then he's probably screwed.

Mick O - I highly doubt that. Revere's struggles result from an increase K-rate, an increase in GB as opposed to LD, and bad BAbip. The bad BAbip is probably completely due to the small sample size, not positioning. He's hitting .179 on GB but we're talking about 56 of them. If 4 of those had been hits instead of outs, his GB BAbip would be .250. He's still just be hitting ~.245-.250 overall -- which shows you that his problem isn't BAbip, really, but strike outs and bad contact.

I think this is more about poor plate skills than anything right now. If there's any scouting adjustment being made, it's likely by the pitcher. That would surprise me as well, though, since the strategy on a guy like Revere is just to throw strikes. He's probably just missing FB more than he used to and rolling over on breaking balls more than he usually does.

Getting Stanton is a pipe dream. First off, we don't have the ammo in the minors to pull off a deal. Secondly, our major league talent is waaaaay too expensive for the marlins, besides brown and revere. Finally, with all the fire sales the marlins have done, and there have been plenty, I don't think a division rival has ever been one of the beneficiaries of said fire sale.

Must be a slow news day. The Phils don't have the prospects to get Stanton. A meaningful offer would have to start with someone like Jurickson Profar, and the Phils don't have any prospect remotely on that level. Next.

Anyone know if FieldFX measures pre-pitch defensive positioning in a way that would allow tracking how a player is defended against over time? That'd be an amazing tool.

Compared to last year

GB%: 67% vs 75%
LD%: 19% vs 13%
K%: 10% vs 14%

Even with a 2012 BAbip profile, he'd be hitting something like .260-.270 this year because of those Ks and the drop in line drives.

Looking at the pitching data, I'm not sure he's being thrown to differently. I think this is all on him.

In googling info on this, I came across a crashburn article that pretty much says the same thing with more information:

Trade Rumor that should be happening:

Jimmy Rollins in a bid war with the NL Central Race. Reds, Cardinals, and Pirates are all extremely weak at SS. Best case scenario has all three teams neck and neck going into the summer desperate for an upgrade over one another - and Rollins playing well of course. I believe his 10/5 rights won't be a problem at all if they can guarantee his option year.

Pirates have a few untouchables atop their farm(Cole/Taillon) and rest of their talent is younger than the Phils would probably like for dealing away Rollins. They could probably find a deal where the Phils take a current A ball level player and add in one of their bullpen arms for more of a 'guarantee' of return. Best bets would be Alen Wilson(SS) or Gregor Polanco(OF) - both Dominican born players in High A after breakout 2012's.

The Reds have some nice arms. Cingrani looks to be untouchable because of his recent call up/success, Corcino is near mlb ready, Stephenson/Travieso are higher upside/risk types. The only position player with much value is their 2012 1st pick, Jesse Winker, plus corner OF bat who is still too far away to be a centerpiece.

Cardinals have a great looking farm, I'd love to do a deal with them. They have one of best 2B prospects Kolton Wong who is probably the best fit for the Phillies. They've got a couple recent draft picks who look strong as well - corner IF/OF Stephen Piscotty looks to be a pure hitter.

Revere doesn't have anything wrong with him that a couple more hitting coaches can't fix.

"I don't think a division rival has ever been one of the beneficiaries of said fire sale."

Norbert, the Fish did actually trade Carlos Delgado to the Mets, though the big part of the fire sale was Beckett, Lowell and Guillermo Mota, et al. to Boston in the trade that brought them Hanley Ramirez and Anibel Sanchez.

The other thing is, even if we got Stanton, do you know what Giancarlo Stanton looks like surrounded by a bunch of crappy players?

The 2013 Miami Marlins.

Point is, this team has SEVERAL holes forward, and while Stanton would completely fill one of their holes, what does it do about Ryan Howard? Does it fill the catching duties next year? Does it replace Chase Utley at 2B? How about third base? Can Stanton play there, as well?

Will Stanton make Brown reach his potential?

But since it's not going to happen, I'll not even fret over it.

Norbert, that was in November of 2005.

lorecore: Dodgers too. They have Justin Sellers at SS. He's hitting .200/.278/.262.

lorecore: it's Alen Hanson not wilson. But, your point remains.

I could see JRoll in Dodger blue before the season is out. What might we be able to get for him from them, though?

Fata - Every idea that would be a sol'n at one place leaves the team with its old problems at others. How is that a knock against said solution at one position?

Sophist/WP: Hanley just came off the DL a few days ago.

MG- when every other team is using advanced analytics and the Phils are using 7 year-old scouting reports instead, that's putting them at a competitive DISADVANTAGE. It's not about getting ahead of the curve- its about keeping up with your competitors.

Fata: I know that things look bleak but the Phillies lineup is better than the Marlins one by leaps and bounds.

Sophist, because you'd have to sell off half the farm to fill one hole, thus leaving you with less in-house options to potentially fill other holes.

TTI, I wasn't implying that the 2013 Phillies would equal to the 2013 Marlins.

I was more implying that one or all of the 2014/15/16 Phillies would look like the 2013 Marlins.

Hanley is 5-8 with 3 XBH and a SB in his two starts off the DL.

The Stanton thing has Rube written all over it - find an available Big Name and throw as many dollars and prospects at it as required. Alas, he's out of both dollars and prospects.

Fata: Not that he's out of the woods yet, but in the last 2 weeks (41 at bats) Brown has put up a .317/.408/.512 line. I'd be pretty happy if he maintained that going forward.

sub .200 ISO? c'mon DOM, lets wake up!

I mean, if Rube's going to burn a bunch of prospects again for one player, Stanton IS the best player to do it for. Cost controlled position player with elite power and good defense.

Unfortunately, I don't think throwing a fistful of prospects at one player does enough to fix this team going forward.

jbird, of course I'd love that line to stick. But he has to, you know, make it stick first.

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EST. 2005

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