Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Halladay expects to return; Phils go for sweep | Main | Hard-luck Hamels opens series vs. Diamondbacks »

Wednesday, May 08, 2013

Comments

Whoa, what's with those Corbin numbers? Is he legit?

Bastardo also walked Brandon Crawford, he of the sub-600 career OPS against LHP. Had him down 1-2 and threw him three straight out of the strike zone- one a wild pitch allowing Posey to advance to third. All he had to do was get two out of three of Crawford-Quiroz-Torres and he couldn't do it.

Pretty terrible outing from the third best guy in the bullpen. But the other guys did well, so it all cancels itself out.

Not 1.80 ERA legit, but he has good control and strikes out a decent number of batters. He is good enough to be filling a SP spot on my fantasy team at the moment.

They showed a little life mounting the come back. Most of the times they roll over and croak. Giants showed them how its done and why they are WFS Champs.

Tough one today. Not much you can do. Zito is tough in that ballpark. They strung together some hits in the 9th and got the job done. A bloop and a WP got the Giants' run in the 10th. Not to mention the two bloops that got them a run in the 4th or 5th (I can't remember).

Again, not much they could do. They came back which was good, but they're going to have losses like this. Nothing to get too upset about.

"MG- you were being a little ridiculous when you said you expected them to come in and beat the Giants in this series. You're being a little ridiculous here, too.

The Giants are a very good team. They played them tough and took 2 of 3 in a park where they historically struggle. Not sure what else you want from them. They can't go back and erase the first month of the season. All they can do is win series and move forward.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do in the Arizona series."

No I'm not and they left this game on the table. This isn't a team good enough to keep leaving their share of winnable game on the table if they have legit playoff aspirations.

What's the narrative tonight, wild card or firesale?

Wildsale!

Really really would love to have a Hamels gem tomorrow to keep the warm and fuzzies going.

Awful call on the Revere play. One of the turning points in the game.

A post on Crashburn just reminded me. Why the heck was Frandsen holding Quiroz on when Zito was up with 2out in the 6th (right before Zito made it 3-1)?

true cyclic but..

i still don't understand why frandsen was playing 2b at all.

1st base that is

fat fingers

Trying to brainstorm on where Delmon Young will end up hitting in the lineup after Charlie realizes he is a black hole. Maybe we could petition the league to have Revere/Young alternate AB's in the 8-hole with Nix in as a DH.

MG- so you are saying that anything but a series sweep at SF is unacceptable?

It's almost unanimous on a place known for its negativity that this was a tough loss, but a good comeback and an overall successful series for them. You're pretty much the only hold out here. Think about that.

As I said, I'm very interested to see if they show this much life in Arizona. If they go in and lay down and lose 3 of 4, maybe I'll lament today's loss. But they always get steamrolled on the west coast. Coming out of it 4-3 would be a success. There are 120+ games left against teams like the Nats and Braves that are more important to take for H2H purposes.

They're 3 back of a playoff spot with 127 games to go. Not sure this is the time to fret about not sweeping a series in a place where they have consistently lost over the past 4-5 years.

Comeback means nothing since they ultimately lost the game. I didn't expect a sweep going in but I did think the Phils had a good chance to win 2 of 3.

This team isn't going to make a big acquisition at the trading deadline nor are they good enough to go on one of the sustained tears they did in the 2nd half during the heart of the run.

Don't like the matchups at all either in this upcoming AZ series. Phils will be fortunate to split here.

Can Amaro please make a roster move with Horst? All of those years the Phils went with a single LHP reliever in the pen for weeks/months on end and now he is seemingly concerned with having a 2nd one even if he has been terrible this year since the start of ST?

Roster management in season has been a weakness of Amaro as a GM and I don't expect a change any time soon.

Props to Cholly for the lineup today. Yeah this is an offensively limited team vs LHP but I thought that was the best lineup he could put out there given the matchup. Also got a chance to rest Howard.

Upcoming match-ups, next three series:

Arizona:
Hamels-Corbin
Cloyd-Kennedy
Lee-Cahill
Kendrick-McCarthy

Indians:
Pettibone-Kluber
Hamels-??? (Bauer again, probably- another DH for the Indians that Monday)

Cincy:
Cloyd-Latos
Lee-Arroyo
Kendrick-Bailey

Some tough ones coming up. Not many pushovers the next 9 games. After that, they go on the road to Miami and Washington, where if everything stays the same, they get Nolasco-Fernandez-Slowey again, but will avoid Gio and Strasburg.

I think I'd feel better about the Phillies vs. Gio & Strasburg.

At least they didn't roll over and play dead today like they did with the Fish. It wasn't a fun ending, but at least everyone seemed to battle til he end...some clumsy battling to be sure, but at least we were in it.

Battling doesn't leave them with anything but an 'L' and momentum is so overrated in MLB especially during the grind of the regular season.

Basically it comes down to this - you have several guys including Lee, JRoll, and Utley say lately when this team wins that is what they expect this team to do.

It is only 35 games (~22%) in and they aren't in a disastrous position but when do they start showing any kind of consistency & playing well like some of the key veterans clearly believe this team is capable of?

Have the Phillies convinced Wang to opt out yet? No offense!

Didn't think Pettibone pitched that well either. He did get dink and dunked on a few hits (along with a Revere brain fart) but he was struggling to locate his fastball almost the entire game.

He's been 'okay' so far but they need him to go a bit deeper into games. He has only gotten into the 6th inning in just 1 of his first 4 starts. For a team that has a mediocre offense and a crummy set of middle relievers right now, that's a problem.

Since Revere sat out, he is 6-14 (1 XBH) and only has 2 Ks. Safe by a mile too and got called out on a horrible blown call. Hopefully he is starting to come around a bit.

Too bad defensively he was awful letting a ball drop in today because he was way too deep & look very shaky on a few other balls hit his way.

Really need Chooch to start to hit a bit too. He hit a few balls hard last night but today had a quiet 1-4 only seeing 13 pitches. Only 1 BB so far and taking a lot off balance swings hitting thigns weakly to the left-side of the infield.

Hopefully he starts to break out of this funk in the next 7-10 days.

Did laynce Nix tick off Cholly. letting Frandsen bat in the 9th was ridiculous. After Frandsen i thought maybe he would hit for Delmon. At least Delmon did his job, if not Uncle Cholly would really look bad.

Bastardo losing Crawford in the 10th lost the game. Bastardo had him over-matched AND buried in the count. Then let him off the hook. Should've been out #2. It was a gimme out

Bastardo is frustrating that way.

Hmmm... I know he had a big sac fly but I look at that .140 average and it makes me day dream of Mayberry starting. I mean that is just pathetic. Bad outfielding, good hitting outfielders are a dime a dozen and we can't find a starter hitting over .240. pathetic.

Bonehead - It is why Bastardo won't ever be anything more than just a decent reliever with a BB/9 that is around 4.5. Just too high even for a guy who gets his share of Ks and swing & misses.

Too erratic and inconsistent with his command.

Corbin is a better prospect than Pettibone, but not as good as Biddle (or Tyler Skaggs if you follow D'backs prospects).

Fastball is 88-92, decent slider and changeup.

Issue with the offense hasn't been the bench either. In fact, they have actually been adequate as starters and done a nice job PH so far.

The issue with the offense has been with C (gotten nothing so far) and 2 starters at CF and SS. JRoll/Revere who have both scuffled so far and it really has hurt because they have been the leadoff man.

I believe today's loss is the 9th directly attributable to the bullpen, which means half the team's losses wouldn't have been losses had the bullpen not allowed additional runs.

At the same time, in the 10th, that strike three slider to Quiroz was one of the nastiest pitches I've seen all year. Impossible to hit. Impossible to lay off.

    ...They're 3 back of a playoff spot with 127 games to go. Not sure this is the time to fret about not sweeping a series in a place where they have consistently lost over the past 4-5 years.

    Posted by: Iceman | Wednesday, May 08, 2013 at 08:14 PM

Love the optimism, Iceman but metaphorically speaking, I don't follow up with girls who are "teases". I want to see r00b pull something out of his sorry b8t and find us a serviceable 5th starter. If the team plays with the fire they've shown over the last 5 Kendrick starts, why not a pennant?

Cliff and Doc are likely on the 25-man until the "...last dog dies... (apologies to WJClinton; I love that quote)”. Both Cliff and Doc want a ring, bad. I want no part of any "wild card" slot to the playoffs, and with the way Kendrick and Pettibone are pitching, who knows?

The quickest way to the NL Championship Series is through a division title. The Phillies need how to figure out how to do that.

And just one more thing. If Doc had a proper evaluation of his "...strained latissimus dorsi..." in '12, I'm sure that any good orthopedic surgeon would have detected/ declared a rotator cuff injury at least 8 months ago. Had Roy been scoped then, he'd be up and firing now.

Another instance of criminal negligence of the Phillies’ management of their star players. Pathetic.

Kevin Frandsen is a nice player to have on the bench. He's below average defensively, but can play a ton of positions and he hits LHP well enough to be a nice PH threat.

However, if you start him 40 games a season he will actively hurt your team.

I was on a flight during the game, so I'm sure this was trotted out in the game thread, but ye old "leaving your closer in the bulllpen during yet another road extra inning loss" rears its ugly head.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. I understand that Halladay has partial tears of his labrum and his rotator cuff. I also understand he has a bone spur in his shoulder and, that the only concrete goal of the surgery is to remove the bone spur. The aforementioned partial tears of key sinew are not scheduled for surgery at this time. They are scheduled to last until Halladay's career ends, whenever that was or may in the future be. Did I miss something?

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/halladay-i-have-chance-come-back-and-pitch-year

Hugh, Here is a link to Doc's comments.
When I heard this, I chose to believe:
Season = Saved
Window = Re-opened
Rube = Buyer
Doc = Re-signed by Phils for 2 years/$25M

Speaking of Doc's surgery, did y'all hear TMac's carnival barking during the game? He referenced Doc's statement about turning the clock back three years, took it too literally, and started dreaming aloud of future Doc no-hitters and perfect games.

What a maroon.

Bonehead, I'm imagining your beliefs being expressed with conviction by a cigar chomping, leather driving glove wearing Ruben Amaro Jr. exclaiming "I love it when a plan comes together!"
With that in mind, I fully expect that hilarity will ensue follwing Halladays surgery until the Phils improbably capture the pennant. I will, of course, adjust my expectations i naccorance with actual results.

Giants announcers / Krukow are more tolerable than Phils TV crew(s) by a good margin.

The jackwagons who run the TV broadcast actually had Gregg Murphy out in McCovey Cove this afternoon, paddling around in circles in a friggin' kayak. He said something to the effect of "This is a great place to watch a ballgame!" What the hell? No, it isn't. You can't look into the park. You don't have a TV. You're in a damn kayak, dumbass! You can't see sh*t! I began hoping he'd get hit by a home run ball, only to stop when I realized that would somewhat legitimize the whole asinine stunt. Next to hiring (& rehiring) TMac, subjecting the viewing audience to a pointless, distracting & entirely gimmicky "roving in game reporter" is the worst move those in charge of broadcasting Phillies games have made in a decade or more.

The bullpen gave up 1 ER in 4 IP, which is a 2.50 ERA, and they didn't use their best reliever.

But yeah, other than that, they were terrible. I mean, God forbid a starting pitcher goes more than 5.2 IP, or the offense scores more than 3 runs in 10 innings.

Horst, Aumont, Durbin and Adams not giving up a run was the reason we were even in the game in the 10th inning. But of course, you can't fit that into a stat as neat as "Losses attributable to the bullpen" (which is maybe the single dumbest BL meme).

I'm sorry, that's a 2.25 ERA. I was being overly critical.

I don't even listen to TMac anymore and I find the broadcast that much more enjoyable. LA/Franske aren't the best announcers around but they genuinely really like one another & you can almost immediately pick up on how the Phils are doing. It was the same with HK & Whitey.

The Giants bullpen gave up 2 runs in 3 IP.

I can only imagine their Beerleaguer is apoplectic over how bad their bullpen is. An unmitigated disaster.

Jack - It's okay. Bastardo didn't deliver today.

MG: You're right, he didn't. He gave up a run.

I just think this focus on the bullpen is crazy. We have one of the worst offenses in the league. The starting pitching has been mediocre. The defense is crappy.

The worst guys in our bullpen are bad, sure. But good teams don't really have to worry about the back end of their bullpen, because they rarely matter.

The problem with this team isn't that our worst players are bad. The problem is that our best players arent very good.

I have one:

I believe today's loss is the 7th directly attributable to the offense, which is any game our team loses where the winning score is under the league average runs per game (4.1).

Joe Blanton is 0-6. That feels kinda good.

Jack - It's the middle relief. Bastardo/Adams/Papelbon overall have been very good. About the only part of the team that has been.

Very good series against a very good team. A few more like that and I just might get back on the bandwagon.

Randy Wolf's sitting idle at home.

I was at the game today in RF right off the field. Gotta say, Delmon Young moves like an 80 year old man. He's a total mess.

The real back breaker today was that horrible on Revere's stolen base. I have never seen a worse call with my own eyes.

Also, Hunter Pence is annoying.

Jack- I'm sure you would have had the same "Oh, well" attitude if Adams had blown the game, right?

I mean, I understand why you're so frustrated. Bastardo is one of your favorite players. But much like Adams would have lost the game, as you said, Bastardo lost the game for the team. He had three guys lined up, after Blanco, that were pretty weak hitters (one of which can't hit LHP) and he only had to retire two of them. He didn't get the job done. I'm not sure why it's out of bounds to point that out. It's exactly what happened.

Observation from yesterday. Neither pitcher had much. Neither was especially sharp or dominant yet neither offense did anything. Is this what day games after night games are going to be in the post greenie era?

Iceman: Bingo!

Bastardo needs to learn to get after hitters when he has them buried in the count. When you're ahead 1-2 it's fine to try and get them to chase something but if they don't then you need to just get them. Bastardo's control isn't good enough (yet) where he can throw 2 chase pitches and let them get to 3-2 and have the possibility of a walk.

I do love losing tie games in extra innings on the road, when my best relief pitcher is sitting in the bullpen spitting sunflower seeds.

After watching the Revere stolen base mis-call about ten more times, I don't see how it's such a travesty. Sure, the call was wrong, but it was a bang-bang play. There is definitely some overreaction as to how "obvious" the call was. I don't think the call was egregious as, say, the one in the OAK/CLE game last night. They used video replay and STILL got it wrong.

Tonight is going to be an interesting game. Patrick Corbin is on fire, so it looks to be a tough one. And, of course, he's left-handed. Great.

Fatalotti: Amen to your 8:37.

A young lefty sinkerballer is not this lineup's favorite matchup to say the least.

Somewhat interesting article from Tom Verducci here about how the old way of bringing in big name free agents may not be the way to go anymore:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130507/free-agents-josh-hamilton-bj-upton/index.html

although neither is a soft tossing veteran lefty

Q: Scale of 1-10, where was the pain?

Halladay: Painwise, maybe a three or a four. I’ve pitched with a lot worse and had a lot better results. The thing that concerned me the most was the location.


Link

MG: "Jack - It's the middle relief. Bastardo/Adams/Papelbon overall have been very good. About the only part of the team that has been."

This I agree with 100%. It was just odd for Iceman to continue to attack the bullpen on a day when the work of Horst, Aumont, and Durbin actually kept them in a game and gave them a chance to win.

"This isn't a team good enough to keep leaving their share of winnable game on the table if they have legit playoff aspirations."


MG, while I agree with your overall sentiment, I think you're missing something:

Isn't every game winnable?

If so, what's "their share of winnable" games?

Sure, you can argue that some are "more" winnable than others - based on SP matchups, etc. - but if, by definition, every game is winnable, I'm not sure what your point is.

johnnysanz: One of the more interesting things is Halladay saying that he'd been pitching with this problem for "years."

Continue to count me as a Halladay fan, but I'm not sure I believe much that comes out of his mouth regarding this injury. Only he knows the truth, but something was amiss last year as well.

Diamondbacks at -120, at home, with a better record than Phil, sith an undefeated starter with a sub 2 ERA starting, against a 1-4 Hamels. Think this is a Phils line.

If I follow MG logic correctly, yesterday's game was winnable. Then we were down 3-1 in the 9th and it was no longer winnable. Then we tied it and it was winnable again, but we didn't win.

A game with a comeback like that feels more winnable when it's 3-3 to start the 10th than it does when it's 0-0 to start the 1st.

And it's a winnable game we can't afford to lose.

Jack: The bullpen's job, regardless of when the starter departs, is to avoid losing the game. Anyone here disagree with that? Or do others agree with your premise that the bullpen can give up as many runs as it wants and be held blameless if the offense doesn't score 5 or more and the SP doesn't last 7 innings.

Talk about dumb.

If the starter only goes 5.2 IP, that is absolutely worthy of criticism, but it doesn't absolve the bullpen of all responsibility.

Clout: "Or do others agree with your premise that the bullpen can give up as many runs as it wants"

They gave up 1 run, yesterday, in 4.1 IP. Not multiple runs.

Look, there are plenty of times with this team where the bullpen completely fails to do its job. Yesterday wasn't one of them. Yes, Bastardo gave up a run that lost the game. But Bastardo only was in a position to fail because of the surprisingly good work that Horst, Durbin, and Aumont did, and because the offense finally managed to scratch out a couple runs. Why can't we acknowledge that?

I guess what I don't understand is why the bullpen, of all places (considering it's largely made up of the worst players on your roster), is held to a standard of perfection. If they give up a single run, no matter how many innings they pitch, they've blown it. But the offense, starting pitching, and defense are not?

The wild pitch that got Posey to 3rd also played a fairly big role. That stung.

Rollins getting thrown out at 3rd as well (Rollins is slow).

The bang-bang call on Revere. (The Blanco one was close too, but I think they got it right.)

Phils are 3-5 in 1-run games. I know that there isn't a discernible 'skill' to win close games but when these game have come up this year the Phils have left some opportunities on the table.

They simply aren't good enough either that they that going to be able to have their share of victories either where they win convincingly too.

Jack: "Bastardo only was in a position to fail because of the surprisingly good work that Horst, Durbin, and Aumont did, and because the offense finally managed to scratch out a couple runs. Why can't we acknowledge that?"

Absolutely agree. In fact, you acknowledge the offense's shortcomings in dozens of posts every day.

But, bottom line, the bullpen lost the game because they gave up a run in extra innings. The Giants bullpen almost lost the game, but that doesn't count in the standings.

My favorite part of the game thread was the 70+ posts debating the Utley play where he missed the tag on Belt.

Update: Phils' offense is 24th in all of baseball. Only teams worse are Marlins, White Sox, Mariners, Nationals and Dodgers, and the Phillies have played more games than most of those teams.

Clout: Whose bullpen performed better yesterday, the Phillies or Giants?

Addendum to my post above. Phils offense is 25th, not 24th.

That'll happen when CF and Catcher are unsustainably horrendous. Honourable mention to RF, and nobody is having a plus year except M. Young.

The announcer discussion comes up all the time, like just about everything I suppose. I actually find Murph pretty likeable, he's just following orders with the horrible schticks that he gets stuck with, like yesterday's kayak atrocity and the daily notebook.

Wheels is tolerable most of th time and TMac is the devil.

Cyclic: Here's one that really bugged me: Intentionally walking the RH hitting Quiroz (lifetime .208 hitter) with 2 outs to face the LH Zito.

Zito, of course, is even more dreadful than Quiroz, but why in god's name would you walk a terrible hitter intentionally under any circumstances? Don't you go after those guys? Then the pitcher leads off the next inning.

I was screaming about that one even before Zito got the hit.

FWIW, Quiroz's career OPS vs. RHP is .535

Just shoot me.

Jack: I'd say the bullpen that lost the game performed worse than the bullpen that almost lost the game.

Yesterday, bap mentioned that Brandon Belt is the Dom Brown of the Giants.

I thought yeah, that sounds about right, but then I looked up Belt and he gave them .275/.360/.421/.781 with a 123 OPS+ last year.

Would love if Dom could at least match that.

Clout: Not only that, but once you got to Zito, you were inviting the Giants to pinch-hit a real live hitter for him and then go into their deep bullpen. Frankly, I thought we'd have a better chance of scoring off Zito than their pen. I thought Bochy would have hit for Zito there.

I think intentional walks are almost always a bad idea. That was certainly one.

Clout: "I'd say the bullpen that lost the game performed worse than the bullpen that almost lost the game."

There you have it, people. The bullpen that gave up 1 ER in 4 IP was worse than the bullpen that gave up 2 ER in 3 IP, blowing a 2-run lead.

Please judge for yourselves whether you really want to take Clout seriously on this topic, given what he just said.

clout, great call. And right after, Frandsen holding the runner (a catcher!) on then cost them a run on what would have been an easy groundout.

OPS by batting order

1 - .558
2 - .710 (just .296 OBP)
3 - .773
4 - .788
5 - .732
6 - .715
7 - .507
8 - .658

They have an OBP or lower in 5 of those 8 spots. By position the problem spots are: RF, CF, C.

Of course, those are only the worst spots. Getting .275/.315/.473 from your cleanup hitter isn't Ben Revere bad, but it's probably one of the worst 5 cleanup lines in MLB.

"They have an OBP or lower"

should say of .302 or lower

Nvm the honorable mention to RF I mentioned before, RF has been just as unsustainably horrendous.

Post - OPS+ (split vs mlb split)

C - 49
1b - 106
2b - 112
ss - 107
3b - 124
lf - 89
cf - 46
rf - 53


RF will probably be terrible all year, but C and CF can't possibly stay this bad. Nobody is really going nuts positively except M. Young.

Shouldn't be a 25th in league offensive team, but probably no better than mid pack by end of year.

.788 OPS (12th in MLB)

NL Avg is .264/.334/.430

Howards needs to up his BB rate because his OBP is dragging but his power has been adequate. Average NL team has just 12 XBHs (7 2Bs, 5 HRs).

MLB really has gone 'Back to Future' to the late 80s/early 90s in terms of offensive numbers with the banning of greenies/steroids and the advantage I think pitch f/x technology has given pitchers over hitters.

Howard has 15 XBHs (9 2Bs, 6 HRs) and that is despite sitting now 3 times.

As the song goes, Phils have 99 problems but Howard's power really ain't one.

Jack: This debate is a perfect example of the viewpoint of many BL posters, like yourself, and a small group of posters who are more reality based.

To you, a loss is meaningless. Far more important are ERA, velocity, WHIP, WAR etc.

To me, a win or a loss is the most important thing.

Clout: "To me, a win or a loss is the most important thing."

Right, which is why I would say the Giants performed better than the Phillies yesterday.

But your insistence that the Giants bullpen in particular performed better than the Phillies bullpen, because their team won, is illogical and absurd.

I mean, Rollins better heat up. Leading off, his line is .240/.293/.347/.639.

Of course, this time last year he was an overall .230/.279/.270/.549 with 0 HR.

Here's hoping he turns it on just as well or better this year.

Current NL Ranks:

Runs Per Game: 12th
Runs Allowed Per Game: 12th
Starter ERA: 13th
Bullpen ERA: 11th

I don't see why people try to finger point with this team. They are all around below average, period.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG