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Wednesday, May 15, 2013

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Zambrano is a good low risk signing. He may have something left in the tank and for what they are probably paying him it is worth checking it out.

Free Ben!

Love the Big Z signing. He looked terrific early last year before fading. He's still pretty young (31) and could rebound. At worst, he's probably better than Cloyd and keeps Morgan/Biddle/Martin from having to make the leap too soon.

Maybe Cholly will bat Zambrano 8th ahead of Revere.

Was really hoping Galvis would get a start. Kid needs to get more consistent ABs.

Zambrano and D. Young in the same lineup. Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

Cyclic: Correction. Delmon Young runs like a Yak.

Posted by: clout | Wednesday, May 15, 2013 at 10:32 AM

As much as I like calling him No-D Young, I might just have to start calling him D-Yak. Or just The Yak.

I like the signing of Zambrano, if only to make DYoung look less crazy.

I feel funny agreeing with Iceman, and even funnier defending Ben Revere. But I don't understand the benching either. The Phillies gave up a significant haul to get Revere, knowing exactly the kind of player that he was. And if he can be the player they thought they were getting, he'll help the team a lot more (both in the present and future) than Mayberry will. And he has actually been hitting in May. To give up on him after a month (and even after he starts to hit) is pretty zany -- especially when the alternative is Mayberry. It's even zanier when it comes from the same team that still hasn't given up on Chad Durbin, or started platooning Ryan Howard.

clout is, once again, sadly mistaken, and continues to publish false information with impunity.

Yaks can run 25 mph, almost as fast as Usain Bolt's 28 mph. To compare a Yak to Delmon Young is a serious insult to Yaks (and all other bovine creatures) everywhere. (I suggest, clout, that if you hear a semi-quickly approaching "moo" coming up behind you, you should climb a tree, or else suffer the wrath of a hairy Himalayan beast.)

A more appropriate comparison would be to say that "Delmon Young runs like a walrus."

Iceman: I was pretty sure we were willing to concede that Charlie's craziness was vulpine-esque if the Phillies scored in bunches yesterday.

That was probably just you. Most reasonable people wouldn't use one outcome to justify a decision. Makes *no sense* (with the information we have) to put Young and Mayberry out there against a RHP. None.

awh - Ruf's lack of minor league errors really means nothing. If he had 7 errors he'd be an atrocity. Having 1 only tells you he's not an atrocity. So what is he in LF?

I bet if we get Zambrano some of them Charlie Sheen glasses, he'll be able to see where the plate is. Eventually. Maybe. If we're all really, really lucky.

Otherwise the Phanatic can learn how to duck.

Iceman and bap--- Gotta ride that hot hand, production wise.

Mayberry RBI yesterday: 3
Revere RBI in May: 1

Production™

BAP: I don't disagree with the majority of your assertion there, but saying that the Phillies "gave up a significant haul to get Revere" isn't strictly true.

Worley's been horrendous this year, and RAJ has a track record of moving young, overperforming starters at or near the peak of their values, leading me to believe it's not just coincidence. May has been better this year, but he's still sporting a WHIP close to 1.25, and his 1.95 K/BB isn't going to win him awards either.

Is the SP a RHP? If so, it DOES NOT make sense to start Mayberry because he had a good game against a LHP. That's actually the exact opposite of "making sense" when it comes to managing a platoon.

Also, Carlos Zambrano sucks.

Sophist: Cute. Actually, it wasn't, since I was discussing with at least one other person - but I had thought the language indicated a degree of mirth in my post.

But, sure, you could assume I'm advocating for complete faith in Manuel based on the positive outcome last night.

When the Phils moved Worley he was 24 with a career ERA+ of 113 in 46 starts. If that's not a significant trade piece we're probably just arguing semantics. They didn't move Hamels at 24, but they have up something pretty big. Besides, starting Mayberry against a RHP is plain dumb.

Philli: Worley has been horrendous but the Phillies didn't know he'd be horrendous at the time of the trade. In fact, he had a great rookie year & was having an equally good sophomore year until his bone chip issue. We spent hours on Beerleaguer debating whether his subsequent decline was because of the bone chips or simple reversion to expectations. The bottom line, however, was that there was no way to know.

And Worley wasn't all that they gave up. They also gave up Trevor May, who was a top 10 Phillies prospect. If you give up a starting pitcher AND a top 10 prospect, only to give up on your acquisition one month into the season, then something is amiss.

Mayberry in CF? What? I guess it's my fault for continually believing that Charlie will wake up.

He had a great game last night AGAINST A LHP! How does that translate into success today against a RHP he's never seen.

Infuriating.

(I've pretty much all but assured that RFD will have a solid game, right?)

bap - While I generally agree with your assessments, and see myself as a charter member of the Wet Blankets Club, I think that there is reason to wait to assess the Revere deal. I think it's stretching it, in particular, to say "The Phillies gave up a significant haul to get Revere." Trevor May is still, at 23, pitching in AA, where he has thrown 97 BBs in 35 starts (his AA walk rate, all in the pitcher friendly Eastern League, is 4.6); these are not the kind of peripherals that lead one to see him as a prospect. And Worley's K-looking phenomenon from last year does not appear to have translated well to Minnesota.

In fact, some in the Land of Lakes are probably bemoaning the deal as well.

NEPP: great minds, etc.

Cholly's now talking about Galvis in CF:

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/manuel-standing-revere-considering-galvis-cf

That can't bode well for Revere.

"Having 1 [error] only tells you he's not an atrocity."

In Ruf's case, "not an atrocity" would actually be a pretty significant improvement. For what it's worth, LV's manager said that Ruf has made great strides on defense. Of course, managers tend to talk up their players, so I don't know how much stock to put in that evaluation. But he said it.

"Having 1 [error] only tells you he's not an atrocity."

In Ruf's case, "not an atrocity" would actually be a pretty significant improvement. For what it's worth, LV's manager said that Ruf has made great strides on defense. Of course, managers tend to talk up their players, so I don't know how much stock to put in that evaluation. But he said it.

If you give up a starting pitcher AND a top 10 prospect, only to give up on your acquisition one month into the season, then something is amiss.

Agreed, BAP. I think there's a disconnect between Cholly and the front office on Revere's value. Cholly wants runs, and if Revere's value is almost entirely in his defense, he's not going to get off the bench much.

I DON'T GET WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH REVERE AFTER JUST ONE MONTH AND I'M SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT IT JUST REALLY MAKES ME ANGRY AND CONFUSED

THE FRICK??

Sophist: Worley had an awesome rookie season, and a pretty good beginning of his 2nd year. However, 3rd-strike-looking results were the primary reason for both, and when hitters stopped laying off the pitches that looked just slightly inside on 2-strike counts (or when he had an ump behind the plate who didn't give him the inside black), he started declining rapidly. He'd never gone deep into games, and was usually around 100 pitches by the time he closed out the 6th - if he closed out the 6th (managed barely over 6 IP/start in 2011; 5.2 in 2012).

Should we have expected him to regress this much? No, not based on his career, but we could definitely expect something closer to his 2012 than his 2011.

BAP: May's stock had plummeted after the 2012 season. I have to think the only reason he was still in the top 10 at the time of his trade was because of his previous success, and the paucity of above-average talent in our farm.

I really wish if Revere was getting benched that it would be Galvis that would play CF vs Righties.

If they want to get Galvis ABs where are the starts at SS?

He's had just 2 so far and Rollins still has an OBP under .300.

Yet let's get him in CF instead of Revere. Yeah, okay.

I also wonder if Cholly agrees with the decision to keep Ruf in AAA while Delmon Young stinks up the joint in Philly. I've speculated in the past that Cholly sometimes does strange lineup things as a cry for help from the front office. This may be one of those times - "I need offense from somewhere, and if you don't give me a RF who can hit, I can't play your light-hitting CF."

Philli: May's stock certainly fell last year but he's still only 23 & has a huge arm. And he was not only a top 10 Phillies prospect coming into 2012; he was a top 70 prospect in all of baseball according to both BA & MLB.com. And, lo and behold, he's pitching well at AA this year.

You really have to twist yourself into knots to argue that a major league starting pitcher with a 3.50 career ERA (heading into 2013), AND a 23-year old pitcher who was a top 100 prospect in all of baseball only a year earlier, is not significant amount to give up in a trade.

BAP: May is not pitching that well this year. He's got a much better ERA, but his walk rate has consistently been high and his K rate isn't enough to make up for that - even though it's pretty impressive.

A big reason he was a top 70 going into 2012 was because of his ridiculously impressive 2011 (although the ERA didn't bear that out - his 208 Ks in 151.1 IP was something magical) and still only 21. It's not terribly surprising, then, that one (really) bad season afterwards would drop him out of the top 100 lists - especially when one of the major reasons for his struggles was something that's been there all along: his high walk rate.

BAP: I think Phillibuster's point on May though is that he had drifted backwards last year and was regressing. You can't just say "Well he was top 70 going into 2012," because that doesn't account for him backsliding last year.

Also, the alarm thing for me with him is that his K/9 rate shrank last year and it has shrunk even more this year. Makes me wonder if maybe he is battling an issue or if maybe people in AA have a better handle on his stuff.

The decision to sit Revere makes perfect sense when one realizes that r00b trades for/signs players w/ zero regard for how, if at all, Charlie will use them. He makes his personnel decisions in a vacuum, which leads to many a pointless move.

And speaking of pointless moves, signing Zambrano is right in line w/ signing D. Young. r00b never misses a chance to make the team older, dumber & less talented.

I get Phili's argument, but I think the truth is closer to BAPs. Seemingly giving up on Revere already is quite odd.

TTI/Philli: Trevor May is in the exact same position as a guy like Tommy Joseph. They both had success early in their minor league career at a young age, and they both stunk it up something fierce last year. Yet, I've never seen either of you downgrade Joseph's prospect status or suggest that the Pence-for-Joseph trade was a bad trade for the Phillies.

If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that we gave up a lot to get Revere, then you are just predisposed to never find fault with anything the Phillies do. It's not exactly a controversial assertion.

BAP: Don't assume my thoughts on the deal.

This is a game where I feel the Phillies really need Hamels to come up big.

And it's time for the offense to show Hamels some support.

BAP: Also, I don't think "Tommy Joseph stunk it up something fierce last year," is not really an accurate statement. I don't think it is necessarily accurate for May either.

***Correction***BAP: Also, I don't think "Tommy Joseph stunk it up something fierce last year," is really an accurate statement. I don't think it is necessarily accurate for May either.

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