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Friday, May 24, 2013


M. Young is 7 for his last 46 (.152 AVG)


And his fielding is mediocre. If he played 3rd in the miracle win on Sunday that game would have been out of reach. Galvis made multiple phenomenal plays at 3rd before the HR.

I will give M. Young credit in that he has 10 BB in that period so his OBP is still pretty solid.

No walks from our 1 and 2 hitters but 10 from our 3 hitter. Great formula for scoring runs. Back in the day fans killed Pat Burrell for taking too many walks instead of driving in runs.

I have company, so you know how that goes - I wasn't glued to the game. Still, it occurred to me that in his past few starts, KK looks like he's turning (turned?) back into a pumpkin.

And the bottom of the 5th made my blood boil. Especially when I heard that we'd had the bases loaded in the top of the inning for Revere to hit into a DP. Why is he not still batting 8th? And why did he not catch that ball, or at least get to it sooner so that it would not be a triple? He's a likeable guy, I've pulled for him, but I'm losing patience with the GIDPs and the misplayed defense. (Of course, saying that, I must recognize that I was cheering the play when he got the assist, noodle arm and all, and Kratz held onto the ball even though he was plowed into quite hard.)

And M. Young's bobble was also irritating. I get frustrated with a poor offensive showing, but it really gets under my skin to see poor defense.

I will say that at least we lost to a good pitcher. I was pleased that we scratched out that run on a Howard double (nice hit, that), a D. Young groundout (although he's another one I'm weary of), and Dom Brown single.

Great picture in the article above, pretty much sums up the season and Ben Revere's CF defense all in one.

One more thing. My dad is from IL not far from St. Louis. He left the room briefly in the top of the 1st and came back to see the inning ending. "It's over already?" he inquired.

Slick DP by Galvis-Rollins- Howard but the bad fielding plays were as much a reason for the loss as KK's poor control.
Another annoyance was the failure by baserunners to score from 2B on singles. Is Sandberg really cautious or are our runners really bad at getting jumps? This seems like a recurring thing this year.

P.S. Welcome back, Stutes! Nicely done tonight! Keep it up, we could use you!

Thought KK did fine battled with high pitch count. Wasn't getting the cutter like zimm was getting the corners. D let them down and revere with bases loaded ne out turd he laid.

Per Gelb:

"I was kind of playing a little shallow because of the wind," Revere said. "That thing just kind of took off. The wind was going around. It tipped my glove. It came back a little bit. Usually in that situation I'd be playing a little deeper so I'd have a chance to go back and position myself. I almost had it. I'm sure I'll make that play next time."

Maybe I'm being too harsh on him, influenced in part by LA's reaction, I'm sure. I didn't necessarily think it was an easy catch - although his jump was a complete miss - but I did think he might have played it better off the wall. But maybe not.

Should have had me in CF amigos... Production™

The title of this post should be 'How To Lose A Game In Ten Minutes' by Ben Revere.

I keep saying he isn't as bad a player as he's shown, and really he isn't. But his track record is so relatively small that if this keeps going on for a few more months, he probably IS that bad of a player, and whatever he was in Minnesota is just gone.

Oh, well. I put most of this on the defense. You can't give a good team five outs in an inning. I remember the Phils from '06-'10 just killed teams when they gave them an extra out or two. The Nats, despite their offensive struggles, are a good team. When they get five outs in an inning, more often than not they are going to kill you.

I said last year when we first saw him that lombardozzi had phillie killer written all over him and that's pretty clearly what he's turning into.

MM - Should have had Mayberry in CF.

Oh, one more thing. DeFratus has mowed down the competition in his few innings at this level (mostly in high leverage situations). Tonight Stutes came in and looked like an MLB-caliber reliever, going multiple innings and putting them down in order with relative ease. They're basically the third and fourth best pitchers in the bullpen already.

These two pitchers were somehow not good enough in April while Horst, Valdes and Durbin were bleeding runs and turning respectable games into blowouts, allowing over half of their inherited runners to score. The choice to keep those sacks of crap on the roster instead of guys that can actually pitch is even worse than the Mini Mart disaster.

Who are these scouts that Amaro is relying so heavily on? Blind Clint Eastwood in 'Trouble with the Curve?' Did he hire the scouts that Billy Beane fired in Oakland? Seriously, who the f*ck are these guys?

Ice- Amaros take of the scouting dept last Oct. tells you all you need to know:

Amaro has high praise for scouting department

By Todd Zolecki / | 10/02/12 7:46 PM ET

I have a great deal of trust in Mike Ondo, who heads up our pro scouting staff. He's as thorough and as good as there is. I think Mike and his people did a great job at the Trade Deadline. We got some very, very good players. We came away with some players that we believe really helped our organization and are going to make some impact on our club pretty soon.

"Listen, we're talking about human beings here. When you try to make moves that you think will work out and [they] don't for whatever reason, a lot of the stuff is not under your control. I feel pretty confident in the people that we employ to be the eyes and ears of our organization. I think we have as good a group of people in our baseball ops department as any club in baseball."

Ruf makes the most sense to me. On a team with Galvis and Frandsen, there's no immediate need for another IF. If one of them gets hurt, make another roster move. What's the big deal?
What does the guy have to do? He started off slow, but is hitting well recently. He can play LF in a pinch and can spell Howard at 1B. Am I way off base, here?
Oh, now I get it. Ruf doesn't offer very much in the way of versatility. It all makes sense now.

Sometimes my rational side says "These are big organization executives. They must know what they're doing and more than we know."
Then this. Unconscionable for all of the reasons above. Now I am SURE that this passive-aggressive-to-the-fan-base GM does things just to show that he can. Even if it hurts the team.

Yes, "Mini-Mart" was coined here at Beerleaguer.
I think Murphy was the first beat guy to pick up on it.

Bringing back Mini-Mart just proves that Amaro is trolling us.

lorecore -- That's really clever. Great metaphor for the logic behind so many decisions around here.

Guess this means our right handed DH for the Boston series is DYoung.

Lore: Hahaha. Good point.
If I were manager, I'd refuse to play Mini one inning. Something like Pop Fisher in The Natural: "I'll pay his contract. But I ain't gonna play him. Never."
I'm not a UC hater, but he seems to like MM for some reason; an inexcusable notion.

I guess Revere has now earned a permanent role as a back-up outfielder, but why? He neither fields, throws, hits or hits for power. He can run. He must just be a one-tool player. I guess he's just a tool and Rube is just a fool. You can get anyone to pinch run. Rube, get rid of him. Revere ware is cooked.

Free Mini Mart!!!

Ben Revere is Ben Francisco without the power. Maybe we shouldn't have outfielders named Ben, in much the same way we shouldn't have pitchers named Chad.

Oh, and watching Ryan Howard swing at strike threes over his head is getting a little old. And he wasn't nearly the worst player on the field tonight. Yikes.

Ben Revere should be given the rest of the season to prove himself worthy of a job, but if this question isn't definitively answered by October, I see no reason whatsoever why he should begin 2014 in Philadelphia.

None of this "lets see if he works out next season" sh1t. Either he turns this thing around in 2013 or he is organization filler and we give someone else a shot.

I'm not so sure Revere showed anything in Minnesota either, he played RF a ton, and managed a .675 OPS in his one "good" year.

Johnny - I would be that Rube never looked at any advanced stats of any kind, no matter how basic, before trading for Ben Revere. But I have to wonder if he ever actually saw this guy play. There is pretty much no strong point to his game. His speed tool is off the charts, and yet, he doesn't have a good small ball game. He is a poor bunter and he has a lousy first step, both out of the box and on the bases.

He is ten pounds of crap in a five pound bag. Seems like a nice kid, but how could anyone watch him play and trade for him? If Worley retires tomorrow and May never throws a major league pitch it was still a bad trade. Because it's possible a non-moron GM might have gotten something good for those players.

"be" should be "bet".

worst misuse of a cliche, ever, by aksmith at 314A. Still, not a fan of Revere. I've only watched the first 3 innings, though. He flubbed a ball in teh second he should have caught. But, it's apparent that the wind conditions were tricky so, I'm curious to see the misplay depicted in htat photo. Kendrick was clearly off to teh glove side.

Wheels making a good "cold night" excuse for Kendrick's walk-a-thon in the 3d. Still, I got something from my car an hour ago and there was ice on teh windows.

Johnny- OPS is irrelevant when discussing Revere's game. He was a positive contributor to his team last season at age 24.

Those skills that made him a positive contributor didn't make the trip to Philly, apparently.

And I've already seen the future play out in my head where Jack or Fata says 'If you have to take OPS out of the equation to find the positives in a player's game, he probably sucks.'

This was discussed ad nauseum in the off-season. Revere is a singles hitter whose value is (theoretically) tied up in his defense and base running. This year those aspects have not been off-the-charts (or anywhere near it), nor have his ground balls besn finding holes, so he has not been a positive contributor. But the fact is that he could still OPS .670 and be a 3ish WAR player.

When Revere hit into the dp with the bases loaded, I knew the game was over. Sad but true. That was the chance to crack Zimmerman and they failed.

* I did enjoy Kratz holding onto the ball after crashing with the runner.

*This team has become extremely boring to watch.

*Phillies have a big television deal in a few years, Trout will be a free agent in 5 years...I'll wait for the hometown boy to sign with the Phillies. (I can wish)

I was looking at the standings and the home and away splits. The Phils do as good as the teams with the best records on the road, but they only play so-so at home while the teams with the good records win two thirds or better at home. Why can't the Phillies play better at home? It is a mystery to me.

Revere is not a -3 WAR player in CF. That is ceiling basically. More likely a 1-2 WAR player.

What troubles me watching him is how flawed and weak a lot of the smaller aspects of Revere's game are. He isn't a good bunter, gets out of the box slow given his speed, poor crossover step on his SB attempts, doesn't have good bat control, mediocre routes in CF).

Basically a great athlete with mediocre to below average baseball skills and you would think this is exactly the kind of player that a team that emphasizes scouting would have avoided acquiring because of so many of his smaller baseball skill decencies.

More and more Revere was a guy they clearly overpaid for because the Phils knew they needed a CF this season and came up empty via other alternatives. Basically was their 5th or even 6th choice.

Not a huge management theory guy but it you are trying to fill a top needed you need to do it with one of your top 3 choices and arguably you 1st or 2nd one. Making a move to just check off a box is a weak management strategy and that is exactly what Amaro did with Revere.

My next prediction: Kratz has post concussion syndrome for three weeks and tries to play through it.
Does anybody know if M Young went through bad stretches in Texas when the team depressed him?

It would be awsome if Trout snubbed the Angels to come home when he hit's FA's.

Revere is one of those exceptions who is not properly quantified by a particular formula. You can tout him as a 3-WAR player all you like, but he does not pass the eye test as an everyday player.

Bunting should be way up there in his skill-set and he is terrible at it.

I think we are finding out that he likes to play so deep because he has trouble gauging balls hit over his head. That would probably be a clue as to why MIN played him in CF for most of year 1 and then in RF for most of year 2.

You can see it so clearly in the Adam Laroche hit last night. He turns to his right shoulder when the ball was actually headed over his left shoulder. He then has to turn around to his other shoulder (losing sight of the ball) and he ultimately ends up over-correcting to his left. The guy cannot play CF.

Yes, CS, we can dream. What's the closest team to Millville? Delaware Blue Hens?

Who's in to start an official White House petition to can Mini Mart?

Since this topic never gets old, did anyone catch this quote from Cholly?

"We could always use somebody to run," manager Charlie Manuel explained. "If we take Delmon [Young] out of the game [for defense], we might want to keep [John] Mayberry [Jr.] back to hit . . . Michael is a switch-hitter. He can play a lot of positions."

I love how literally every single time Cholly gets to extolling the virtues of Mini-Mart, he always has to throw in that he can switch-hit. Because, you know, with a versatile switch-hitter like Mini-Mart on our bench, it takes away the opposing manager's ability to trick us into bad matchups. If the opposing manager brings in a LHP, Mini-Mart can bat right-handed (with his .531 career OPS). If the opposing manager brings in a RHP, Mini-Mart can turn around and bat left-handed (with his .472 career OPS). Either way, we get an opposite-handed hitter up there in a favorable matchup.

Random thought after looking at the stats: what if we didn't empty the cupboard for Pence? I think Singleton, Cosart and Santana would have been ample to get Justin Upton (throw in May and Worley if need be). I've been following this team for twenty years and they've always failed to think two steps down the road.

I mean, Pete Orr, who is left-handed, has a career OPS against LHP which is .33 points higher than Mini-Mart's career OPS against LHP. But, in the minds of Cholly and Ruben and Proefock, Mini-Mart is a better option against LHP because he can go up there & bat right-handed.

Hughie? Et tu Hughie? Worst use of a cliche ever? Seriously?

If Ben Revere isn't ten pounds of crap in a five pound sack, who is? It's the perfect use of that particular cliche. Or maybe you're being precise. So, here goes. Ben Revere is 9.1 pounds of crap in a ten pound sack. Better?

Or better yet, why aren't you a fan of Revere? Because, as you say, you only watched the first three innings, and I was clearly only basing my opinion and the cliche on one game. Because if you're looking at body of work this entire season, then Revere is about 36 pounds of crap, no matter what size sack you're stuffing.

I hope ak continues to try to indignantly explain why his misuse of that cliche is right. It's already more entertaining than the game yesterday.

"I hope ak continues to try to indignantly explain why his misuse of that cliche is right."

I don't. He's hurting my head. Or, maybe it's a hangover from watching that game until 5AM. Revere's whiff on that ball in the 5th(?) was atrocious. I will concede that the wind seemed to dictate that he play in, which made it a difficult play but, it is hard to excuse him missing the ball that badly. Still think hte earlier play was worse.

Holy cow. Iceman and Hugh ganging up on the perfectly appropriate use of a cliche. He, like Benny Fran, is much worse than the sum of his parts. Which is to say, the cliche is apt.

I guess I should just pull a Clout and emerge from my mom's basement every few hours to point out how much Iceman believes Revere to be the best centerfielder in the league and the answer to most of the Phillies' problems.

And I'll try one more time to get the cliche right. Ice and Hugh have done their best to turn Beerleaguer into ten pounds of . . . nevermind.

Well, this sucks. Not only is the team horrible, but the Beerleaguer site has taken an ugly turn. Your name is no longer your reliable handle - the Friday, May 24, 2013 11:30 PM post was not me.

To lorecore - to the extent the comment in that post was or was not lucid is beyond me. At first glance and again after closer examination it's horribly out of context as you have not even posted on this page. Really strange.

Seems the future of BL may hinge on requiring some sort of registration to verify who is posting. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't wait to find out who Michael Martinez and Pedro's Midget really are.

I actually think the guy posting as Mini-Mart is pretty amusing -- although he did fall out of character yesterday when he started talking about how much Mini-Mart sucks. Then again, I'll bet even the real Mini-Mart thinks he sucks. He must be laughing every time he cashes his paycheck.

I'd laugh all the way to the bank if I were him.

I miss They Call Me The King of the Bop.

There are games in which the only appropriate response is


I know Revere hasnt impressed but think the Bl'ers are been a little too rough too soon. One thing once you guys get caught on a theme rather it be Shane, Revere etc its like a broken record. Remember Rube Fuzzy Logic chip is a wondrous and mysterious thing. My feeling is Rube didnt look pass Revere flaws and just looked at his positives perceived or real. Maybe a poor man or a younger version of Pierre.

Amaro is pleased with his talent evaluators? Pretty tough to defend when you're calling up Mini Mart again and the roster is loaded with sub-replacement players. Where are the diamonds in the rough Mike Ondo is tasked with finding? Michael Martinez? Pete Orr? Chad Durbin? Raul Valdes? Ezequiel Carerra? There are also a host of minor league moves that don't get press that were total failures, too.

It's tough to keep track. Can someone help point out the handles that have been compromised?

The Mini-Mart move is really frustrating though. He's a total nothing.

I think we're actually being rough on Revere when we should be rougher on Amaro. This guy gives us Minimart and Ben Revere on the same team. It is not their fault that they're not good at baseball. It also wasn't Ben Francisco's fault. And it's not John Mayberry's fault that he's mediocre. It's not Chad Durbin's fault that he is done. It's not Michael Young's fault that he has no power left and he's a statue at third base. It's not Chase Utley's fault that he's got two bum knees. And it's not Ryan Howard's fault that he's aging badly. It's not BJ Rosenberg's fault that he's not a major league pitcher. It's not Jeremy Horst's fault . . .

But it's Ruben Amaro's fault that he thought they should all be on the same team at the same time in 2013.

I was expecting Revere to be a younger version of Juan Pierre. Unfortunately, while Revere certainly has the same limitations as Pierre (power, throwing arm), he has few of Pierre's pluses. Besides being a much better hitter, Pierre had the game to make optimal use of his plus speed. He had superlative bat control, was a great bunter, absolutely never struck out and, even though he was an extreme ground ball hitter, he understood the art of hitting the high chopper into the ground so that he could beat out base hits, advance the runner, & avoid DPs.

Revere is much faster than Juan Pierre ever was but, when it comes to the skills needed to put that speed to optimal use, he's not even in the same universe as Pierre. He's a horrible bunter. His bat control isn't great. He has struck out in 14% of his ABs this year and more than 10% for his career (not terrible, by any means, but nowhere near as good as Pierre). He hits even more ground balls than Pierre but he has no understanding of how to chop them into the ground to utilize his speed, or hit it to the right side to move the runner over & avoid the DP. The skills simply don't match the one physical tool he has -- at least not enough to make up for his enormous weaknesses.

Except for Francisco, that is.

BAP - Exactly right. But I think it can be said more succinctly. If you're a poor man's Juan Pierre, it means you suck. There is a certain point at which even a poor man won't ante up. Ben Revere seems to be at that point.

I like Ben Revere and think he is just off to a bad start. Last night's game was a bad one for him all around - no excuses - it happens.

Once this team stops pretending it has the slightest chance of making the playoffs, they can move Revere into the leadoff spot for the rest of the season and hope he develops into a good one.

This isn't like starting a piece of dogshit like John Mayberry everyday just to go through the motions, this is putting faith in your starting CF for the next 3 years.

And if you don't like it, what are you going to do? Go out and spend big money on an always injured 30yr old Ellsbury(with a 74 OPS+)? Call up Tyson Gillies? Didn't think so.

JW -- I'm no authority, as i've only been "hacked" 1x. However, IIRC, b_a_p and MG have been compromised.

They guy that "got" b_a_p was a real hack - he had none of the original's dry wit and pithy observations. Really easy to spot.

When Pierre came up with the Marlins he was at least as fast as Revere is now.

We were all hoping for Juan Pierre v.2.0...what we got has been Joey Gathright instead.

I don't think anyone is basing their opinion of Revere on one game. He's simply been awful the entire season.

If this team were some kind of offensive powerhouse, maybe you could tolerate Revere. Maybe. But his defense is average at best, and possibly below average, and his offense contains none of the small ball skills necessary to succeed with his limited ability.

At this point, bringing up Tyson Gillies might get you about what Revere is giving you. He didn't look good after they tried to retool his swing, but he takes better routes on balls in the air and he has a better arm. And playing John Mayberry every day in center would give you adequate defense with the possibility of 15 homeruns. And every easy score this team gets is gift from heaven, considering they are a singles/strikeout machine.

Went to dinner last night, and RAJ was at the table next to me. Wife had to restrain me. Settled on the idea that I would send him the cheapest bottle of wine, with a note that this is what it feels like to pay to go to a game and see Mini Mart in a Phils uniform. By that time, he and his smoking blonde date had departed...

I think people forget how good Pierre was (and apparently how fast he was). The guy got significant MVP votes twice and stole 520 bases over a 10 year span.

In conclusion, he was really fast.

Pierre was fast? Really?

Looks like we have found Sarge's replacement. Carry on.

I guess I was confusing the Juan Pierre of the last few years with young Juan Pierre. But if he was once as fast as Revere, that would only make the difference between the two players greater.

As a guy who has watched a lot of AL baseball the last few years (specifically the A's, Rangers and Twins), it is almost impossible to explain what's happened to Revere this year (compared to last year with Minnesota). The most perplexing thing is the cluelessness that he's developed seemingly overnight. He was not a dumb player last year for the Twins, and he was very sure of himself both in the field and on the bases. At the plate, he was basically Pierre. This year he seems like he's inherited Vic's cluelessness without some of the physical gifts to make up for the mental gaffes.

There are two possible explanations. One is that the kid had one year where he put it all together, in a position (RF) where he had a lot less pressure on him defensively than he does now, and we'll never see that player again. The second is that he's pressing, trying hard to impress a team and a fanbase that basically made him a cornerstone (CF leading off) after toiling in baseball obscurity for the first few years of his career- mix in some bad luck with where his ground balls have been placed, and you have what we've seen the first two months.

I lean towards option two, mainly because going with option one is an exercise in futility. If you give up on the guy now, you'll never know if it's just been a bad two months. You have to give him the year to start. If he continues to look like this (especially defensively), in the offseason you reevaluate your options. There is no point- absolutely none- to bench the guy for John Mayberry (or Tyson freaking Gilles) after two months. It's a reactionary move that I'm not surprised many on here would be in favor of making.

Ak- stop trying to shove 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag.

Ice, I agree with your mom. You are very clever.

Oddly, I agree with you that the only choice is to play Revere for the rest of the season. It will possibly accomplish the two things I see as most helpful to this team.

Amaro will be fired and they'll get a protected pick in the next draft.

And as someone who never heard of Revere until they traded for him, I am calling you on your bs. You can't have seen him play before because nobody watched Minnesota Twins games. Nobody.

I look forward to your next scouting report on a player you never saw before.

Move Brown to center and bring up Ruf could not be any worse maybe the move works makes the club better if not you found something out about possible solutions in house

The Mini-Mart move was justified by his versatility. What about Josh Fields, who can play 3b and 1b and is hitting around .300?

It's like shoving 5 pounds of Iceman and 5 pounds of TTI into a 3 pound clout's rectum.

Stay classy fake posters.

Brown has played center field in the minors and claims to be quite comfortable there. Revere's clearly not getting the job done. It couldn't hurt to try it for a few games and see how it goes.

AK's routine would be described by Rizzo as "fake tough".

Ak- if you want to think I'm going to get on a website and tell people I watch the Minnesota Twins when I really don't, by all means, feel free. I've probably seen 1/4 of their games since they moved to Target Field. I've also seen probably over half of Oakland's games. It's not exactly something I'm proud of.

I'm sure there's a joke in here about how I watched more of Revere than Amaro did before he traded for him, but that would just be like stuffing ten pounds of crap into a five pound bag.

Great AB by revere

Better one by the bone

J drive

Substituted n

J pop

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