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Friday, May 24, 2013

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I mean, the Beerleaguer reaction all but guarantees Mini Mart scoring/driving in a winning run this weekend.

buster had a really good post at the end of the last thread. Repost that guy.

At least Mini Mart isn't starting. Curious to see which of these two scuffling teams that have struggled so much offensively will look this series.

"I mean, the Beerleaguer reaction all but guarantees Mini Mart scoring/driving in a winning run this weekend."

If the Beerleaguer Reverse Jinx worked on Mini-Mart, he'd be an All Star by now.

You can never have too much versatility, boys.

Just gonna go out on a limb and mention that Kendrick's last outing, which suboptimal (gave up 4 runs through 6 innings), wasn't the sole reason they lost that game to the Reds 10-0...

I'm willing to forgive one "non Quality Start" for the guy who was supposed to be our 4th or 5th best pitcher entering the season. Yeah, hope he "rebounds."

"You can never have too much versatility, boys."

This is my mantra in life and what I'm always reminding my fiance. So, what if I can only make PB&J sandwiches, effectively wash crumbs only off of flat dishes, and rinse my socks in the sink and throw them on the outside furniture to dry. The point is that I can cook, clean AND do laundry. I'm versatile, dammit!

WP: Did you miss this part of the headline:

"but he still managed to minimize the damage and keep the Phils in the game against a potent Cincinnati offense."

I can't imagine that Amaro would bring back Mini-Mart without Charlie's approval. In fact, it was probably Charlie's call. Charlie sees Galvis as the everyday 2B now and he would never be switched to SS even if Rollins went down. Thus, he's the recall. Neither Orr nor Frandsen can play SS adequately.

If it were me, I'd recall Orr and if Rollins went down move Galvis to SS and start Frandsen/Orr at 2B. At least Orr has a chance to get a PH late in a game. It will be interesting to see the reaction when Mini-Mart is brought up as a PH in bottom of 9th with 2 outs and tying/winning run in scoring position.

So for some much-needed distraction from the MM debacle...

- No homecoming for Victorino next week, as he's placed on DL
- Adams apparently set to be activated on Sunday.

Jack, I saw it. I was commenting on the fact that we probably need to be a little bit realistic about Kendrick. To expect him to limit the opposition to two runs all the time is probably a stretch and, more so, even if he does, it doesn't matter if the offense can't score.

I suppose if you're looking for a lede for tonight's game, though, hoping that Kendrick can "rebound" beats the hell out of "Phils hope to not get absolutely embarrassed trotting out a lineup filled with a bunch of dudes who have spent much of the last few years in AAA."

Phillibuster is exactly right in what he is saying in the last thread and it is something guys like Iceman and myself have been saying to people over the years.

Indignation at moves is one thing and anger over them certainly stems from that. But some of the people saying this is the worst move ever and proves Amaro is a moron are the same people that say that about every move he makes. Durbin's signing, D. Young's signing, Papelbon's contract, trading Lee to Seattle, the Howard contract (have we forgotten the furor over that) even people this week people have been complaining about the hauls Amaro got for Pence and Victorino.

When you say the same thing about every move it cuts into your credibility as an intellectual participant in a debate. To paraphrase a quote that I think fits here- when you amplify your dissent over everything, your opinion can be taken as nothing.

I just don't understand why if he was a moron up to this point- this is the tipping point for you!

Also- I don't defend Amaro's moves. I try to understand the rationale behind them. That is way different than defending them or even liking them.

One thing is nice about this signing...everyone agrees it is bad. We get that type of agreement maybe 3-4 times per season on BL.

So we should thank Rube for that.

Sorry, not a signing, a roster move. Though technically they did purchase his contract so its a signing of a sort.

Your implication is that people who don't like the moves don't try and see the rationale. If it were all empty complaining there would be no discussion. I guess some people engage in that, but not usually. And when people do usually blow up at moves, it's either humor (gtown) or just typical fan hyperbole.

"When you say the same thing about every move it cuts into your credibility as an intellectual participant in a debate."

So am I supposed to pretend this is a good move in order to preserve my right to complain about the next bad move he makes?

I mean, I was right with you in the offseason. Wait and see who he signs. Don't blow up about Betancourt or Young until they actually make the team. I do think there's a tendency to assume the worst and how it will play out. But more and more those assume the worst kind of things, when it comes to roster moves, injuries and how they are handled, in game decisions, seem to be right. Not even gtown saw Mini coming.

Your implication is that people who don't like the moves don't try and see the rationale. If it were all empty complaining there would be no discussion. I guess some people engage in that, but not usually.

_________________________________

Sophist: My explicit response is some people absolutely do that. Also, it would not lead to no discussion. That is ridiculous.

That last sentence is insane considering you have been here for a long time and know better.

I do think there's a tendency to assume the worst and how it will play out.

______________________________________

Assuming the worst is one thing. Taking multiple events and saying it always showcases the worst of Amaro is ridiculous and cuts into ones arguments as a whole.

I've explicitly stated what I think the rationale behind the move is. They think they need a second utility IF at all times (note: it also requires the next leap to think Martinez is a better second utility IF than Pete Orr, but I'm not getting into that.)

For TTI, it's apparently enough that a rationale exists. For me and others, I need a rationale that actually makes sense.

When you need offense and the situation where you need two backup IFs in the same game occurs about once a season, bringing up the worst offensive player in professional baseball in case that one situation occurs strikes me as an utterly ridiculous rationale. But it's there, so. You know. At least we have that.

Re the current discussion on MM, Amaro, et al: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Sort of what TI was getting at.

For the non mouth breathers on the site:

please note I said the move to Mini Mart makes absolutely zero sense like 3 times this morning. So if you want to quote me going forward please use my actual words.

Some moves belie rationale and reasoning. This Martinez thing would be one.

It's funny how TTI keeps saying he doesn't like the move over and over and yet keeps getting told that he does.

For those who are criticizing the criticism:

If you think we're being obstinate about acknowledging a valid rationale, then go ahead and point one out. If one exists, let's hear about it.

Otherwise, you're complaints make no sense. If you want us to acknowledge that a valid rationale exists before complaining, that requires a valid rationale to exist.

If one doesn't, then our complaints are well-founded.

So put up or shut up yourselves. Let's hear the good reason we should entertain in our minds about why Mini-Mart is on the team. We're waiting.

TTI, why do you like Mini Mart so much?


~ducks~

Nice zinger from Rotoworld:

"Carlos Zambrano allowed an unearned run in four innings of work at extended spring training on Thursday. The Phillies could call him up soon, as they have a glaring need for an aging starter with a diminished skillset."

Of course I screwed up "your" and "you're." Bah.

Ok, TTI admits that there's no rationale for this. Fair enough. Won't argue over it.

TTI, why do you like Mini Mart so much?


~ducks~


_____________________________________

Now see- that was funny.

On another note: I do like the concept on here that it is perfectly fine to yell and scream at the sky about every move Amaro makes, but when someone takes the opposing point that maybe there was a reason for why they did something it is completely idiotic and they are told "Prove the rationale." The only ones who know the absolute rationale behind why something happened are the guys who made the move. I suggest e-mailing them to find the real reason they did something.

No one has come up with a valid rationale of Mini-Mart being on the team because no one is arguing there is a valid rationale for him being on the team. I think this was explicitly stated multiple times by various posters such as buster and TTI.

TTI: That's not the argument.

I am sure there's a reason for every move. They don't just sit and throw darts at a decision tree chart and whatever it hits, they do. I know this for two reasons. First, that would require a decision tree chart exists. Second, if they just threw a dart, they'd hit on a good move every once in a while.

The question is whether there's a *good* reason behind what they did. And yes, if you're claiming there is, you should go ahead and put one forth. A GM doesn't get a pass for saying "but there was a reason I made that move!" At some point, your reasons have to be good, and over time, your processes need to lead to good outcomes, more often than not. I believe in judging individual decisions by process, not outcome, but that requires you have valid processes. It doesn't mean you just get to say "I'm sure they have some process there, so it's all good."

TTI owns a Michael Martinez jersey.

Can't make this stuff up:

"@ToddZoleki: Manuel and Proefrock explain Martinez promotion: can run, play multiple positions, gives Phillies flexibility."

The degree of high-horsing going on here is ridiculous.

Can I declare Beerleaguer Bankruptcy and get back my "Amaro is stupid" cards? I didn't realize I was going to need to spread them out so much.

I'd hate for TTI/Buster to think that when Amaro trades Jesse Biddle and Roman Quinn for a half season of Josh Willingham, I wouldn't consider Amaro stupid for doing so just because I used up all of my cards already.

lorecore - No, but you wouldn't be wrong that it's dumb. I'm not saying it's *not* dumb. I'm just saying you shouldn't keep saying it all the time cos it makes you look bad.

Posters who primarily talk about the Phillies: "This move is terrible."

Posters who primarily talk about other posters: "This move is terrible, but you're all still wrong about Amaro, and it's just coincidence that you've been saying he's terrible and then he did something terrible."

To clout's point, regarding Manuel not viewing Galvis as a SS and needing a backup shortstop: I wouldn't be surprised if that's true, but I just don't understand it at all. If Rollins gets hurt, then the next day you can call up Martinez if you have to. If Rollins were on the DL, I could actually see some reasoning behind this move.

You want to see hyperbole? See lorecore's 4:56 post.

Galvis is the best SS on the team. If Rollins gets hurt, you move Galvis to short, Frandsen goes to 2B, and you call up whoever you want to fill the IF spot after that.

Of course, they're worried about the typical Phillies scenario where Rollins is hurt enough to miss 7 games but not go on the DL. In that case, you'd still be fine if you'd called up Fields or Orr, but it's true they'd be in trouble if they called up Ruf.

Still, it's a decision based upon being scared of the worst-case scenario happening. I don't see how it accurately reflects the probability of those things actually happening.

Someone check the lost and found for the point that Sophist is missing.

Welcome to the All Things Mini Mart program. Tonight's topic: Things we don't like about how Mini Mart eats his sunflower seeds.

Jack: Your point about probability aside (which I agree with), I just don't see why you couldn't call up Ruf, and then if something happens to Rollins and he ends up in that sub-DL injury limbo, you send Ruf right back down the next day and call up Martinez? This team is obsessed with versatility.

Also, I understand the beat writers need to walk on eggshells to some extent to keep their access, but can't one of them press the issue on this?

Is there any word that maybe Mini Mart missed the flight, or the train he was on derailed and crashed into a village?

Give it up TTI. It's a stupid and baffling move that might be one (if not) the single dumbest call up in the last decade. Worthy of outright mocking.

I would bet that there isn't another MLB team that would call up Mini Mart given several factors.

There's not even a point complaining about Amaro. With the absolutely flabbergasting exception of Gillick, incompetent Phillies personnel are like the heads of Medusa. Fire one incompetent idiot and there are two more waiting to take his place.

"But some of the people saying this is the worst move ever and proves Amaro is a moron are the same people that say that about every move he makes."

You know, I just don't think the factual premise behind this argument is valid. Only a day ago, he called up Stutes -- to widespread applause from even some of the most curmudgeonly of posters (i.e., me, MG, GTown Dave). When he traded for Michael Young, a lot of us -- after some initial trepidation -- quickly came to the view that it was a reasonable move, given the alternatives. When he signed Mike Adams, the move was pretty universally praised on Beerleaguer. Hell, GTown Dave & I -- who are two of RAJ's bigger critics -- have taken endless sh*t on this blog for PRAISING RAJ's acquisition of Hunter Pence.

It's not like RAJ's critics are reflexively finding fault with every move he makes. If he makes a good move, people say so. I defy anyone to explain why calling up Mini-Mart is a good move.

I'm repeating myself (and everyone else) but the versatility thing is just nuts. This team already has 2 SS, 2 CF, 3 2B, 3 3B, 5 1B, and 6 corner OF. We've got plenty of versatility already at the positions Martinez plays. What we need is a hitter.

No, none of the reporters are going to press because all of them know they're capable of being fired and replaced.

As much as I detest Peter Gammons and people like him, they speak their minds occasionally because they're not scared of getting fired.

DH: It's funny how, until yesterday, the Phillies had managed to get by just fine with only 2 shortstops on their roster. Now their starting 2nd baseman goes down and suddenly the need for a 3rd shortstop outweighs all other needs on the team.

It's true that MM can do all of the things Manuel and Proefrock say he can do, but he does them all badly. Either they don't know, making them ignorant, or they don't care, making them negligent. Whichever it is, somebody more knowledgeable and diligent should be in their jobs.

BAP: Along with the catchers, Howard, and Rollins, Utley was the least versatile player on the team: there was no circumstance under which he would play anywhere but 2B. He was, however, the best hitter on the team, but let's not worry about that.

And before, Galvis was a bench player, subject to being used as a pinch-hitter early in a game and then being ineligible to fill in at SS in a later-in-the-game emergency. Now, with Galvis likely to be in the game most of the time (and thus eligible to move over to SS), they arguably have less of a need for a third SS.

I try not to be part of the lunatic fringe amongst fans but I cannot figure out why there are not beat writers who are even entertaining the idea of canning Rube or Charley before the trade of critical parts happens. I was a Cliff lover from back in the day but I can see a good reason to trade him off ASAP to get maximum value. I cannot, on the other hand, stand to see Rube being the "trigger puller" / "talent evaluator" who makes the decision what and who they are trading for. I just could not imagine what sort of crap he would be happy with this time.
Is there any inkling or slight clue out there (that anybody here has read) regarding a GM or ownership trustee (like Giles) who could slide in after such a dumping?

"We're driving towards a cliff. If we go over it, we'll plunge over the edge."

Please, you're just being melodramatic. Off a cliff? Try toning down the hyperbole.

"Why are you pressing the accelerator? This is making us go faster towards the cliff. This is awful"

Are we in free-fall right now? No, we are not. Let's just see how this plays out.

"If you don't hit the brakes very soon, we'll die."

Die? Oh that's just too much. I'm in perfectly good health. There is a cliff nearby, but we haven't hit it yet and may not even go over.

[[[3.5 seconds later]]]

The fact that we're are actually now plummeting to our doom in no way justifies your earlier hyperbole. Always talking about death and cliffs. How can I differentiate between where we are now and your prior insane ravings?


Let's just let cooler heads prevail and hope that his presence on the roster does not hurt our chances against the vaunted Nationals this weekend.

The point that a large number of posters are negative 98% of the time is irrefutable and obvious to anyone who reads the blog.

To Clout's point, there are likely twenty to thirty players I'd have rather seen called up than Michael Martinez. That's the negative. But here's the positive. He is the twenty-fifth man on a mediocre stew of a baseball team. So, there's that.

Clout, come back to bed

I just wanted to say that I thought Sophist's analogy earlier today about Amaro's decision being like finding out that your wife wasn't just cheating on you, but that it was with a dog was just perfect. This really was the straw that had to break the back as far as coming up with any rational support for Amaro's moves. This decision was so ridiculous that it was being put out there as a complete joke a day before...but Amaro actually made it. Unreal.

Lombardozzi is going to smack the sh7t outta the Phil's.

Amaro/Martinez/Orr which name doesn't fit out of those three.

YA I WENT THERE, :p

Nah Johnny because "Hernandez" should of been in that set to and he didnt get call either.

Victorino, What a puss!
I could play today and whoop his ass.

No idea why Martinez is back on the ML roster. These are the times I wish Philly had real sports journalists who asked tough questions so we could get some answers and possibly some insight into how these decisions are made.

Ricky B reporting Ruf a late scratch at LV. No reason given

"Ricky B reporting Ruf a late scratch at LV. No reason given."

Maybe RAJ spent the day reading Beerleaguer and reflecting . . .

Let's hope so

Brundage stated Ruf will be on the roster tomorrow, it wasn't a big league thing. Well we can only hope...

Maybe Ruf is being traded to Japan

Hey, I could pick it at short, better than that snotty kid they called Oz. And even I could outhit this dickhead Martinez. But hey, I like the call up. People will stop calling me the most anemic Phillie ever.

Christ, Harper has a .324 ISO.

There are several players in our lineup who wish they had a .324 OBP.

I thought Phillies organization rules state that a late scratch means a player should have been on the DL 8-10 days ago.

MM sighting in the dugout! He's really here.

Camera panned over to Martinez just to piss off Bl'ers.

Michael Martinez honored with a plaque on the Phillies Wall of Fame 2041 during the weekend celebration of the 25th anniversary of the 2016 squad...last time Phillies have won an NL Wildcard spot.

It's cold here! Luckily, I can burn some of this money they're paying me to keep warm. Hey TTI, thanks for the love!

That was almost a really good catch...almost.

Enough with the "elite defensive player" crap. Revere has failed to make at least a half dozen plays this year that even an average centerfielder would have made.

I would have caught that.

kk doesn't let stuff like the revere miss bother him.

Fata, what about a .324 SLG?

/revere

40 pitches already at the end of the 2nd. I'm predicting seeing Stutes sometime this evening.

Kendrick's all over the place tonight. This will end badly.

KK is really missing his spots....he's nibbling too much so far. Dont blame him really against this lineup and with zero run support.

The Nationals aren't swinging at slop outside of the zone?

Is that allowed?

KK's got them right where he wants them with a force at every bag.

Since Kyle's thrown 65 pitches through three, this ought to be a great game in which to showcase the Phils' uncommon middle relief corps.

In re: nibbling

My suggestion to Kendrick? Throw effin' strikes. Regardless of run support. Does he really expect the guys who pitch the sixth, seventh and eighth to hold the Nats to no runs?

WTF is Howard doing swinging at a 3-0 pitch with no one on base & a huge wind blowing in? And it was ball 4, no less.

Uncommon is one word for it.

When's the last time Howard didn't swing 3-0?

Howard thinks a 3-0 green light means you have to swing.

I think it's in his contract that he has to swing 3 - 0.

It's like that clause that says that if there's a runner on base, Jimmy Rollins has to pop up to an infielder on the second pitch.

MG has been talking about Rollins' declining defense for like 5 years now and, this year, he appears to be right.

Looks like Kratz wanted to fight.

That was just asinine. I know Revere's arm is awful, but he was barely behind 2nd base and there were no outs in the inning.

The Chipper/Kratz play from last year is worth re-watching. Kratz got DEMOLISHED on that play.

Send the runner from 3rd with nobody out? Brilliant! That cost the Natinals at least one, possibly two runs.

Did anybody read the MLB story about Gattis starving in NY after running out of money during a 5 day trip there?

It happened to Blanton every road trip.

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