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Thursday, May 16, 2013


NEPP-- I didn't get the Nixon/Kennedy reference.

"It seems like the Phillies have preached a more aggressive approach to Brown. He has only nine walks and 30 strikeouts this year, and he's swinging at the first or second pitch more than ever before. Brown hasn't walked once in 54 plate appearances this month."

Because, you know, why not try to take away the only positive thing the kid had ever shown he was able to do.

After single, single, HR, with 2 outs in the first inning, Cloyd has just gone HR, double to start the second.


Bench overall has been a positive. PH has been surprisingly good for: 20-69, .290/.319/.478 with 7 XHBs (leads MLB) and 14 RBIs (2nd in MLB).

Galvis has played well, Frandsen has been utilized properly and has delievered a couple of key hits and Nix/Mayberry have been 'okay.'

The only issue has been the backup C - Quintero/Kratz who have been real zeroes.

Jack-- exactly. And it's anecdotal, but I feel like he's had a ton of at bats where he works himself into a favorable count, only to weakly groundout to the right side on a pitch that's not even good (if it's even a strike).

So if Mayberry has figured it out (he hasn't), when will Charlie figure out that if he's starting every day, he should be starting in RF instead of DYoung?

One of the biggest criticisms of Brown by many posters here over the past two years was that he wasn't aggressive enough.

Now he's being too aggressive and not gaining enough walks, and gaining some criticism for that. Damned if ya do, damed if you don't.

Personally, I think he will find a balance in between the two.

If he continues to be fairly aggressive and punishes balls, he'll start to get more balls and then he can be patient again. Walks aren't going to keep him in a starting role, HRs will. He knows that at this point.

Our 5th starter has given up 4 homeruns in the first 3 innings of his AAA start.

If you measure 'production,' Brown is on pace for a nice season with 28 HRs/76 RBIs. Not many corner OFs who will better those numbers this year in MLB.

Power is nice but i will still rather have Brown hit .280 AVG/.370 OBP with 15-20 HRs and 10-15 SBs.

I still have no idea why Brown doesn't have a SB yet. I attribute that in part to Samuel who I view as essentially useless on this team and someone who apparently isn't providign much insight to guys like Mayberry/Brown/Galvis.

NEPP-- just saw the explanation in the other thread. Now I feel dumb.

BAP- Zambrano is pitching today?

Locally, we mostly bought in to the improvements upon last year's 81-81 team ...

This continues to astound me. What improvements?

bap-- He's just trying to keep up with Hamels and Halladay. No one told him minor league numbers don't count.

Is there a place to find how much teams are spending on their bullpens, other than manually adding up salaries on B-R? I really want to see what the Phils are spending relative to other teams to have the worst bullpen in the league. I'd think with the money they're paying Adams and Papelbon, they have to be near the top.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb 30m
! RT @jonmorosi: Bud Selig says it is possible MLB opens next season overseas. Continue to hear Australia is the most likely destination.

The note about preaching a more aggressive approach to Dom Brown got me thinking. I don't know if it means anything but it
didn't surprise me.

Larry Bowa becomes manager
Charlie Manuel becomes manager

Personnel must play a huge part but that's a heck of a trend. Abreu's .400+ OBP left during 2006 but the walk rate actually went up in 2007. Raul Ibanez's .289 OBP left after 2011 and the team OBP plummeted despite that.

Agree with Corey about sending Durbin, Horst & Valdes down, away, whatever. Get them out of our BP.

I had hoped Durbin would improve based on hearing Larry Anderson say that he had an ERA under 3.00 after a slow start (April) last year, but it's mid-May now, and he doesn't look much better.

News on Doc:

Mandy Housenick ‏@inthephilshouse

Roy Halladay had successful shoulder surgery yesterday.
He had an arthroscopic evaluation and underwent debridement of his labrum and rotator cuff as well as removal of an inflamed bursa.
Halladay will begin a progressive rehabilitation program and if all goes well, he may possibly begin a throwing program in 6-8 weeks

The other beat writers are also reporting that the surgery was successful and that Halladay could begin a throwing program in 6-8 weeks.

An offense that's lacking Production™:

In 24 PA with the bases loaded, Phillies hitters have a line of .136/.167/.227/.394 and only 11 RBI. Just 3 hits incl. 2 doubles.

I think Aumont needs to go to AAA. Unless & until he learns how to intentionally throw a ball into the strike zone, he's useless. Horst should be sent down, too. Release Durbin, & leave Valdes for when the SP gets shelled early & 2-3 innings of crap pitching no longer matter.

Revere is almost Jeltz bad and could end up being even worse. I prefer Mayberry at this point and that's saying something because he sucks too.

Scotch Man: Jeltz hit 5 HR in his career. I've got Revere pegged for the Under.

Regarding the blowout stuff from last thread:

In 2008 the Phillies lost 14 games by 5 or more runs. 5 by 5 runs, 9 by 6 runs.

In 2009 the Phillies lost 21 games by 5 or more runs. 9 by 5, 5 by 6, 4 by 7, 1 by 8, 9 and 10.

In 2010 the Phillies lost 16 games by 5 or more runs. 5 by 5, 5 by 6, 2 by 7, 3 by 8, and 1 by 10.

Now before anyone thinks it- no I do not think the 2013 squad is similar to any of those teams. Just saying in the course of a 162 game season- teams are going to get blown out. Even the Braves (whose ability to blow teams out shows how much greater they are) have been blown out 5 times already.

Here are more links for you about Doc. You can skim them because they mostly have all the same info:

* * * *

So, putting on rose-colored glasses to look at the team and at Doc, he can be like Carpenter was and come back in time to help us win in the postseason. (Without, hopefully, going down to injury again the following year.)

Wake me when Revere hits HRs from both sides of the plate in the same game.

Just saying in the course of a 162 game season- teams are going to get blown out. Even the Braves (whose ability to blow teams out shows how much greater they are) have been blown out 5 times already.

Posted by: The Truth Injection

Exactly. I'm just hoping we're getting most of ours out of the way early, and that we won't keep up the disastrous pace.

WE need to look at the other side of the RD question, too. The Phils do not blow anyone out these days. Ever. Ever ever. Never ever ever. 6 -2 is a great day.

When you get blown out but never reciprocate you can have close to a 500 record but have a miserable RD. Of course, if they got more runners on base, they might score more runs.

It would make a huge difference, I think, if Hamels could mix in just an occasional curve ball for a strike. But I guess he needs to throw fastballs for strikes first.

It ends up feeling, for the fans, that if they score three runs early in a game, they feel like they can mail it in the rest of the game.

Who cares about getting guys on base, I just want to produce some runs.

GBrett-- Halladay will start the 1 game WC playoff, out-dueling Stephen Strasburg for a 1-0 win on a Dom Brown HR.

The '08, '09 & '10 Phillies ended up w/ Run Differentials of +119, +111 & +132, respectively. The '13 Phillies will wind up near even at best, but most likely worse (the 81-81 '12 team finished at +4).

Andy-- If the Phillies' opponent gets to 4 and the Phils are behind, you can go ahead and turn off the TV. It's over.

I guess that's good news about Halladay. 6 - 8 weeks would be between June 27 and July 11.

Assuming no setbacks and it's 7 weeks (it is Halladay, after all) he'll be throwing around July 4th.

I wonder how long the rehab would be. 1 month? 2 months?

NEPP, I agree.

I'll be stunned if there are no moves are made before tomorrow's game.

How can anyone see this team (even beyond just the results) and think "Stay the course" is a valid option?

Figure 6-8 weeks after the throwing program for him to be able to take the mound at the MLB level. It takes a long time to build up arm strength and then do a 3-4 game rehab stint.

delete the second "are". whoops.

I think Aumont needs to go to AAA.

To be replaced by whom? Adams looks like he's ticketed for the DL, so Stutes will probably have to replace him. We don't have any other viable RH relievers in AAA, and adding a fourth lefty to the pen after Bastardo, Horst, and Valdes doesn't make any sense. Once he's in shape, Zambrano might be another option if he's not needed in the rotation, but it will probably be a few weeks before Big Z is ready.

NEPP, so then we're looking at between August 8 and September 5.

If this team can stay competitive and he can make it back and pitch well in 12-13 weeks, maybe he makes a difference, but I will not be holding my breath.

Darn shame.

Iceman, the Newsday salary page looks like it allows you to do this. You can filter to only show "bullpen" and also "closer." I did that and dropped the results into a spreadsheet and summed the columns

Their data is of March 29th

Team RP Total
Boston Red Sox $26,509,500
Arizona Diamondbacks $23,807,000
Philadelphia Phillies $22,234,500
New York Yankees $22,157,600
San Francisco Giants $21,942,167
Washington Nationals $21,313,591
Chicago Cubs $18,586,333
Los Angeles Angels $16,819,250
Cincinnati Reds $16,767,500
Cleveland Indians $16,737,400
Los Ang. Dodgers $16,510,499
Chicago White Sox $15,315,000
Texas Rangers $14,960,900
Baltimore Orioles $14,932,500
San Diego Padres $14,042,800
St Louis Cardinals $13,757,000
Toronto Blue Jays $13,154,500
New York Mets $13,126,625
Milwaukee Brewers $12,533,000
Detroit Tigers $11,844,500
Colorado Rockies $11,585,500
TBay Rays $11,504,000
Oakland Athletics $10,402,000
Atlanta Braves $9,363,750
Minnes Twins $8,527,500
Pittsburgh Pirates $6,024,000
Seattle Mariners $5,743,000
Houston Astros $4,362,300
Kansas City Royals $4,144,175
Miami Marlins $3,952,500

An a semi-related note, I found a Chrome extension that lets you make your TAB key actually insert TABs when typing in a text box. Might be helpful for the super stat-postin' Beerleaguers:

Text Area Formatter for Chrome

@wondering: Split the middle of those dates and that's about where I'd guess for him to come back. I'd say somewhere in the Aug 20-30 range for his next MLB start...assuming he rehabs well. Just enough time for him to get 6-7 starts to audition for his 2014 contract.

Trying that link again:

Text Area Formatter for Chrome


NEPP, 6 - 7 starts might not be enough to make a difference for the team. If he happens to heal and strengthen faster an early August date might only be the difference in 3 mores starts. I guess 9/10 Halladay starts *could* make the difference in the team making the playoffs, but a lot of other things would need to fall into place for that to happen.

Lots of guys were saying here at the beginning of the season that making the playoffs was going to be very dependent on Utley, Halladay and Howard. So far, only Utley is delivering, and if things stay the same then the folks who predicted that will be proven right.

I dont see this team going anywhere regardless at this point. There are just too many holes and too many guys past their prime.

Doc coming back a few weeks earlier than that wouldn't matter even if he was in peak 2010 form.

Utley has had a great start but its important to remember he historically fades as the season goes on.

Howard has yet to really show that he'll ever be the guy that was even the 120-140 OPS+ hitter he was in his prime.

Hamels has something wrong with him and its a question as to whether this might be another 2009 for him where he simply never gets fully on-track.

Add in shoddy defense and a non-existent middle relief...and you have a mediocre ballclub overall.

There's also the tiny issue of not only does Halladay have to recover and rehab his arm, but he probably also has to actually pitch decently too.

If he comes back and looks the same during his rehab (low velocity, bad command, no movement on pitches), then it's not like he's of much help anyway.

The surgery isn't guaranteed to fix those things. Which is sad, but also probably worth remembering.

Doc's working to come back because he's competitive and a pro. That aside, from the Phils baseball point of view, 80% of it is about 2014 since I'm not sure how close this team will be at the point he does return. If he pitches well, I bet they'll give him a contract.

I'd imagine they'd definitely offer him a contract if he comes back and shows he's healthy...I dont know that he'll accept it if we're going into a rebuild.

Thanks for finding that Mick. So basically they are spending the third most in the league- about $9 million above average- on what is arguably the worst bullpen in the MLB.

What's funny is the bullpen is very much built the way Amaro has constructed the team as a whole: top-heavy with big salaries handed out to a few players, with the rest of the parts not really worth a damn.

And shockingly, one of those big ticket items has broken down and there is zero depth to replace him...

And the other piece, while still performing at an elite level, is getting older, has shown a marked velocity drop and is likely going to be an albatross long before his contract is up.

Rube is awesome.

The Royals are spending $4 million on what is one of the best bullpens in baseball.

The failure to develop any young relief pitching talent is just terrible. It's exactly the sort of place where you should be able to consistently get average to above-average production on the cheap from your own talent.

Bastardo is a good example. He's the only reliever we've developed since Madson that you could call "good," (and I now some on here will even disagree with that). He would be 5th or 6th in the Royals bullpen. They (and other teams) can churn out someone like Bastardo every few months. He's one in six years for us. Just terrible.

I mean, the fact that we're behind the Royals as a franchise in anything says enough.

So um, totally off topic but what is Mike Arbuckle up to these days?

Not to mention:

"if all goes well, he may possibly begin a throwing program in 6-8 weeks"

There is a part of that sentence that affords a certain benefit of an awfully insistent doubt to the Phillies medical staff. Can you think of any recent Phillies player recovers that didn't go "well"?

Papelbon with the Phils:
Papelbon before with BOS:

86.2 IP, 187 ERA+, .969 WHIP, 10.8 K9, 5.5 K/BB
429.1 IP, 197 ERA+, 1.018 WHIP, 10.7 K9, 4.43 K/BB

He's faced 58 batters this year and walked 1. Wow.

That's well over half of the above total, right? I get the criticisms but I don't know if $$ spent is the issue since it's largely spent on Papelbon and he's been excellent. The bigger issue is what Jack points to: they're not getting anything anywhere else.

Look at the Yankees. They spend a ton too, but their internal guys outside of Rivera have been excellent.

I think we should wait until Papelbon's velocity drops starts making a difference before getting worried about it. His FB velocity was down last year too. Did it matter?

Still a guy they should move as soon as they've decided this team isn't going anywhere.

I mean, the fact that we're behind the Royals as a franchise in anything says enough.

Posted by: Jack | Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 03:24 PM


Arbuckle's with the Royals:

Posted by: ColonelTom | Thursday, May 16, 2013 at 03:27 PM

Must be a coincidence. Maybe, just maybe Monty chose wrong when he picked among Gillick's disciples.

Pap is having a fantastic year...the problem with Pap on this roster is its the equivalent of owning a Ferrari in Alaska...sure it looks nice in the garage but you can only take it on the road 2-3 months of the year.

Papelbon's 4-seam FB is 1 MPH slower than it was during his time in BOS and he throws is 15% less (41% now, 55% then). He gets the same & of whiffs on this pitch as he used to and he's throwing it for strikes as often.

With the Phils he's thrown his 2-seamer ~30% of pitches with MPH about 93.7. PitchFX had him only throwing that in 4% of his pitches with BOS (same velocity as now).

He's thrown his split in about 20% of pitches. He only threw it in 8% of pitches with BOS. The velocity and movement is no different there really, either. He doesn't get as many whiffs on this as he did. They're, so far, fouling it off more often than before. But he is throwing it a lot more.

He's throwing his slider about as often. He's lost 4 MPH on it.

So far, just looks like he's not relying on his 4-seamer as much as he used to. He's getting great results.

We're all in agreement that Papelbon's sudden drop in strikeouts this year is just a very small sample size fluke?

Papelbon has exceeded my performance expectations. Unfortunately, the Phillies need Papelbon about as much as Ben Revere needs to start clearing space on his mantle for a Silver Slugger award.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Papelbon. He's an elite closer in his prime.

NEPP - Agreed. Until Manual starts using him to put out fires earlier than the 9th, or to make multi-inning appearances, he's a waste. And if this team isn't contending in 2013-2015, he's a waste anyway.

I just don't get the concerns over his FB velocity. Look what he's done. He seems to have to ability to make due going from 95+ on that one pitch to 93+. He's commanding his pitches.

I also don't get the concerns over how the Phils spend their money. The problem isn't that the Phils spend on the BP (the Yankees do too). It's that they haven't developed any other Bastardos or 2008-Madsons. The Papelbon $$ is a strategic mistake given that the team was unlikely to compete (esp given the moves that followed). But spending $$ on BP isn't a mistake in itself. Lots of high payroll, competitive teams do that and have good pens.

Signing Papelbon wasn't a mere mistake, it was monumentally stupid. How r00b could view the end of the '11 season, w/ Howard face first on the ground & his team unable to score a single run for their best pitcher in an elimination game, & think the team's most pressing need was a "veteran Closer" is beyond explanation. It's beyond credulity.


2013: 20.7% (12/58)
2012: 32.4%
BOS: 29.4%

Wonder what that's all about. You could say it has something to do with that 4-seam velocity but his K% in 2012 was the third-highest of his career.

He's also got a .182 BAbip (.278 career), a 29% DP-rate (4% for career), and a 1.7% BB-rate (6.5% career). Lots of weird things 16+ innings in.

Considering they were going to re-sign their own closer, Madsen, for similar(?) dollars, who's arm then died, I'm not that upset about it. They could have brought in a bat as well.

Yeah, also wonder what the timing of signing him was with the Utley news. If 2012 Utley could have been anything like 2013 Utley, and the pressing need for a bat may not have been as pressing. And maybe Pence/Vic doesn't stink etc..

Venters is having TJ.

Can't help but wonder how much better this team would be doing if RAJ had of held off on that fire sale and kept Victorino and Pence.

Sad incident at today's Phillies Phestival: Ryan Howard attempted to sign a ball for a young fan, but swung his pen wildly three times w/out making contact, & walked away shaking his head.

Dragon: They weren't keeping both Victorino and Pence regardless because management's policy (no matter what certain BL posters think) is to stay under the cap.

That said, Victorino was available as a free agent and signed for about $13M/year. The Phils have about $13M under the cap. He was interested in returning. Trading him didn't prevent the Phils from having Vic this year.

"The failure to develop any young relief pitching talent is just terrible."

Jack, they don't have any Kimbrels in the bullpen, but that's a bit of an overstatement.

Say what you want about Stutes but he'd have been fine as a middle reliever had he not gotten hurt. there's no way the team could have predicted that. Bastardo has had and has his moments. De Fratus has also been derailed from time-to-time by injury.

So, let's say Stutes makes it upand pitches well this year. Bastardo gives them a season somewhere in between 2011 and 2012. And De Ffatus stays healthy and pitches well. That's 3 young pitchers they could have.

Look, I've ripped the FO a lot lately, but it's not like they haven't been trying to develop these guys.

RP is the one spot on a roster where a lot of teams try to place young, live arms that are cheap for the first two years.

It's not always easy. The Cards pen sucks too, and they've been steallar at beinging in young talent the last few years - so much so that they calculated they could let Pujols walk.

I think my disagreement with you is that you make it sound easy. If it was easy every team would have an entire bullpen of mid-90's fireballers at the MLB minimum.

Ah, Dragon and Colonel Tom, don't make me nostalgic for Vic again. He's one of my favorite Phillies.

GTown, that's a funny joke about Howard.

"So far, just looks like he's not relying on his 4-seamer as much as he used to. He's getting great results."

Sophist, sounds to me like a guy who's making some adjustments as he realizes his velocity has dropped.

Maybe he's not quite the idiot many people here assume.

GTown, GBF is right. That was funny!

Vic's having an odd season in Boston. He's hitting for pretty good average (though it has dropped .26 pts in the last 5 days). But he has only 5 extra base hits all year -- 3 doubles and 2 homers. His OPS is only .706 because his slugging pct. is so low.

That money spent on Papelbon was unnecessary. It could've been used on a .285+ 30 hr+ 100 rbi+ player. And, has anyone noticed that when the Phillies hit a homerun, it's always a SOLO shot?

... has anyone noticed that when the Phillies hit a homerun, it's always a SOLO shot?

r00b has a word for that. He calls it "Production™".

awh hits it on the head. The back of the pen looked good going into the year with Papelbon, Adams, and Bastardo covering the 8th and 9th innings. RAJ thought they'd get some mileage out of Durbin and Valdes as veterans in the middle innings, and hoped to find two more relievers out of a sizable batch of young pitchers: Aumont, De Fratus, Diekman, Schwimer, Horst, Savery, and Rosenberg.

RAJ's bullpen strategy wasn't horribly conceived in the way that 2012's infield backup plan was. It's gone horribly, but that's largely on the guys that have failed to get it done on the field.

"Maybe he's not quite the idiot many people here assume."

I'm pretty sure Papelbon's ability to make adjustments on the mound is not what's given him the reputation for being an idiot.

It's basically everything he's ever done and said off the baseball field that takes care of that.

Giants set the record for consecutive solo HRs in 2011 with 21.

Actually, I omitted the most bizarre detail about Vic's season.

From the LH side: .314/.372/.386/.758
From the RH side: .227/.277/.318/.595

Of course, the latter numbers are based on only 47 PAs.

Why do the Phillies prefer brokendown bums to their own talent? Pedro Martinez in the 2009 World Series instead of Jay Happ,Delmon Young instead of Darren Ruf and now Carlos Zambrano may take up a roster spot that should be used to break in talent from the Phillies System. Why?

Sophist- I didn't say the money spent was the problem. Of course player development is the bigger issue. It's just pretty funny that they've invested more money in the pen than almost any other team and yet have a bottom-3 bullpen. It's embarrassing.

I mean, if anything I wanted them to spend MORE to get someone like Lindstrom in here as another credible 7th/8th inning guy. It was obvious to many before the season that the whole bottom-half of the bullpen was woefully inadequate.

I mean, it's not a surprise that they've been in so many blowouts- if a starting pitcher has a bad game, it is a mortal lock that another 3+ runs will be tacked on the rest of the game.

That money spent on Papelbon was unnecessary. It could've been used on a .285+ 30 hr+ 100 rbi+ player.

Not all of it. They needed bullpen help. If they hadn't signed a closer, they'd have been using Bastardo in the 9th. In the first half of last year, Bastardo posted a 5.34 ERA with 18 walks in 28.2 IP.

Maybe they'd have saved $4M or so by going a bit cheaper on a closer. Who knows, maybe if they'd had that $4M and made other smarter choices such as passing on Thome, Wigginton, and Nix, they'd have had about $8-9M to play with last offseason. Josh Willingham (.265, 35 HR, 110 RBI) would have been a huge upgrade in LF, but then you're still looking at a quad-A 1B (Rizzotti or Overbeck were the in-house options, as Ruf was still a long way from the bigs when 2012 opened) and even more Mini-Mart than we actually suffered last year. Maybe we'd have made the playoffs, but probably not, and you'd also be short a bunch of minor leaguers that we acquired in the deadline deals last season.

I mean, I mean, I mean. Need to start utilizing the preview button.

Iceman - I just meant that, given most of that money goes to Papelbon, it's not as if the $$ makes it embarrassing. Adams even looked good until recently. It's the guys making no money that stink. And Durbin, but that's a small fraction of the 20+ million.

"and now Carlos Zambrano may take up a roster spot that should be used to break in talent from the Phillies System."

Yeah, it's terrible. I mean, Tyler Cloyd (who gave up 7 runs and 4 homeruns in today's AAA start) has future superstar written all over him, if only the Phillies just gave him a fair opportunity.

Here's the Phillies' doc, Michael Ciccotti, discussing Halladay's surgery and prognosis:

He's non-committal, understandably. Basically says that everything went well but that doesn't mean Doc will be Doc again. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe this year, maybe not. It's all wait and see.

Paying a few guys top dollar, and surrounding them with "role players" is fine in the NBA. It doesn't work in MLB. You need above average players at most positions, and more than anything, consistency. The ebbs and flows of the current roster, while fun to watch when they're "flowing," is sure to disappoint just as much when "ebbing" and isn't likely to provide continuous success.

Iceman, for the record, I've been enjoying your recent posts since you've started to pick at the issues of this team in a realistic and fair manner, as opposed to continuously championing all that is rose-colored with this team and the FO approach. I hate that it's taken a mediocre team to do it, but I do have to say that your posts are quite enlightening and entertaining. The self-deprecation always helps too.

I'm takin' bets today. Smokes or coins, better's choice.

When is the next time Roy toes the slab in an MLB game?

Before Sep 1 2013
Between Sep 1 and Sep 15 2013
2013 season after Sep 15
First week of Apr 2014
2014 after the first week of Apr

Put me down for "First week of Apr 2014."

Oh, and coins. Always coins...

1 - 15 Sept.

The Phillies will want to rush Halladay back, Halladay himself will want to rush back, & certainly nothing bad will come of it.

When you factor out "closer" for all teams, the Phillies spent the 14th most on opening day bullpen according to that list. Middle of the pack.

At some point this season, barring a dramatic turn around of the present lineup, the Phillies need to bring up Ruf, Ashe, and Hernandez. If those guys look to be genuine major leaguers, the Phillies will have something to build around. Then, they can think about what expensive older players to unload.

Halladays surgery was successful. Did anyone expect them to say Halladay surgery was unsuccessful upon the incision a Alien creature burst out of his shoulder. Killed the Dr and whole medical staff.

Bonehead, what kinda smokes?

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