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Tuesday, April 23, 2013


It's early, but given the pitching match-up, you will not see a more pathetic, disappointing performance from this team this year. Because it's impossible to be any more disappointing than that.

I'll forget about that .500 in April pipe dream now. When Wandy (Rodriguez, btw) shuts them down tomorrow night, it will be all but mathematically impossible.

Missed the game, but sure looks like I didn't miss much.

The Phillies are a effin disgrace! So much money invested on a bS team who cant hit to save the planet! Howard is the worse 4 hitter in hostory! His lack of patience is very disturbing, Mayberry's luck seems to have run out, and sitting Chase Utley seems like a mistake even thiugh hes got busted knees... It's horrible to the point of vomiting to watch this team play.... I hope they reach .500 when Chooch gets back, because we need him BADLY!

We've scored 4 runs in Hamels' past 3 starts. Run support!

JR: The 17th century philosopher was not on the hill tonight. However, if he was, I doubt the results would have been much different tonight...especially if John Locke was left handed.

I'm pretty sure that the Pirates called up RHP Thomas Hobbes to go in tomorrow's game.

It sounds like Mayberry was told to go from 3B to home on contact, in an effort to stay out of a double play.

Wow. Charlie said he didn't send Mayberry. He also had no criticism for Mayberry because "it was a Double Play" if Mayberry doesn't go. A double play. With Ben "I have one tool, & it's supposed to be my speed" Revere at the plate.

Charlie Manuel is the dumbest manager in the entire history of the game.

Which worked.

Unfortunately, it didn't accomplish a run and did make an out.

Instead of calling up Grilli, the Phillies:

#1. Kept rule 5 pick David Herndon on the roster all year
#2. Called up Scott Mathieson
#3. Called up Drew Carpenter
#4. Called up Mike Zagurski
#5 Called up Juan Perez

Its not like Grilli is some enigma. He was throwing mid 90s and not walking anyone.

That is malpractice.

I can't wait until the easy part of our schedule is over. I'm getting spoiled by all of these weak teams.

There was a double play anyway after RFD got thrown out by 5 years, on the very next batter. What's his point?

Oh, did I mishear? It was Mayberry's choice? My mistake, then.

Ben's tool is his defense. Speed is supposed to be another, but it hasn't been panning out in IF hits. It's frustrating. Juan Pierre did better at the plate.

GBrettfan: I heard Charlie say "if I had told [Mayberry] to stay", which led me to believe it was the runner's choice. Either way, FAIL.

Is "I don't see where I can change very much" a veiled remark about the quality of the hitters he's been handed? As opposed to saying, "We'll hit. We're gonna hit."

lorecore: not only does Amaro appear to have no ability to find talent, but he apparently can't even spot it when it's right under his nose.

He lucked into signing Grilli right around the time he had a career resurrection, had a pretty bad MLB bullpen, and STILL released him.

Glad I did t watch this slop of a game. Cole knows how cliff feels. This team better find another level. If not 500 is the group this team will be at all summer.

Charlie did say "If you were patient, he would give you a good fastball to hit." Sounds like he thinks we should have hit Locke, too?

I thought the Phillies had several chances at fat pitches, but simply couldn't hit them they way they should have. If it's gotten to the point where batters can't do that, forget it.

The day Grilli got released, it was deep in the Hunter Pence trade talks, so it got hardly any talk. But if you go to:

Mistake not bringing up Grilli and not releasing stiff Baez.

Posted by: MG | Thursday, July 21, 2011 at 11:52 AM

Its hard to be 'upset' that the Phils loss Grili to an opt-out clause, but its pretty frustrating when you think of the circumstances.

The Phils took a flier on a seemingly washed up veteran just in case he had success AND they suffered injuries in their bullpen.

Well...Grili was in the 90s and posted a sub 2era for over three months of AAA while Phils have Carpenter/Mathieson/Herndon all filling in roles because of bullpen injuries.

I doubt Grili will be a difference maker in the Pirates pen, but he looks to have a good chance to effectively eat innings at the very least. Just that fact should have been worth a call up by the Phils, and then you at least take a shot at him pulling a Juan Perez for a few weeks and maybe even longer.

They made a longshot low risk bet, and won...but then decided to just lose anyway.

Posted by: lorecore | Thursday, July 21, 2011 at 11:55 AM

Still my bad.

@icman my hope was to somehow be 13-12 when Chooch returned. Ain't happening. I would be thrilled with 12-13 at this rate. Thankfully we miss Harvey this weekend.

@gbrettfan, could be. I'm sure he's super excited for Delmon Young to arrive, who will then be the team's fifth fourth OF. Impressive work by RAJ, I wonder how far back the franchise will be set back by having this clown continue to run things.

So our BP is better than last year, and we have Chase and Ryan, but it still feels like 2012 all over again. With worse defense.

We've had some good games offensively, but so far, we're more consistently bad than good at hitting.

GTown's right. If we can't even hit fastballs anymore (and I'm not talking Aroldis Chapman fastballs), we're done.

I'm holding onto the hope that this is a team-wide slow start/slump and that we'll start hitting, perhaps Chooch will infuse some energy into the lineup.

The highlight of the game was LA saying that our corner outfielders should call off our new centerfielder when there are baserunners who might be thinking about advancing. I foresee many championships.

Good pitching, bad offense.

The 2013 Phillies.

Does this make sense?

Mandy Housenick ‏@inthephilshouse
Dom Brown on Locke: "I faced in the minor leagues. I’ve seen him a lot. That’s really why I was up there hacking."


LA said that because of how bad Reveres arm is lol


It does make sense, just worded wrong. He means he seen him alot and knew what to expect so he was going to go out swinging hard.

He just didnt connect. Happens.

That makes more sense, Corn, thanks.

talking about mabes attempt to score chollie went into a funny little riff about how that is how it has been done "since abner doubleday opened the game."

And UC was at those games...

Must admit, I was pretty skeptical back when Grilli was with the Phillies & MG kept singing his praises. Still, when the guy was with your organization, and doing well with your organization, and you let him go anyhow, and he turns into a top player somewhere else, it's nothing other than a fail. Same goes for Brandon Moss.

BAP, to be fair, Moss had a .000/.000/.000 line as a Phillie. That's, like, slightly worse than Ben Revere.

That the Phillies might...gasp...actually get better with the inclusion of Delmon Young only serves to show how utterly hopeless their situation is.

The point on Grilli was that they had a revolving door of suck that was under team control that they gave every chance to fail instead of giving the guy who was destroying AAA a sniff before letting him leave as a minor league free agent. My recollection was he was a free agent for like 6 hours.

can someone who follows the farm closely explain the need the phillies feel in converting roman quinn from an outfielder to ss? unless they are projecting galvis for 2b.

"Ok, do Baez sucks, but who cares? What's the harm in the extra year, it's only a million dollars?"

The answer is that you let a guy like Grilli go instead of releasing Baez.

Something worth remembering.

So the point isn't that Carpenter, Herndon, Mathieson and Zagurski were all identified as more MLB-worthy than Grilli- it's that Baez had a second year on his contract. Yeah, let's make sure we remember that.

Things got bad enough on the game thread that mainerob called up the ghost of 64.
1964 was brutal, but exciting.

2012 and 2013ytd are more reminiscent of the decades of mostly second division baseball between years like '50,'64, '80 and '08.

Who's going to turn this around?
Chooch? Ryan Howard? Ryne Sandberg?
Or is it going to be a long frustrating season.

@Bubba: Brutal, yes; exciting, yes, until the final 12 games. Ugh. "Ruiz stole home" will forever ring in my ears. At least, for years.

I know Roob the boob will never do this, but I have a gut feeling that if UC were ever to be fired mid-season, we would see overall team improvement with some Ryno infusion. And I ain't talking the Howard version.

I firmly believe that UC has become a laughingstock both inside and outside the clubhouse. His time is long over and I wouldn't mind at all seeing him and Amaro part ways with the Phillies.

Any combination of this group of current Phillies outfielders (I'm including Delmon) remind you of Werth, Victorino and (God help me) Burrell? Any?! There's your weak link and there is why they will finish a second year out of the postseason. Thanks, Rube.

I'm pretty positive that Charlie is not a laughingstock within the game.

Amaro? Wouldn't surprise me.

Au contraire, Jack. His in-game decisions are laughable. The only thing for me is that I find no humor in his moves or non-moves.

I don't think Charlie is the problem, but sometimes early retirement offers are a good thing for all concerned.

The heir apparent being on the MLB club, and the team not performing as well as they should is a tough combination for a manager survive.

Can we get JW back to write these recaps? I keep wince as I make my through these paragraphs…

Um... *I keep wincing*


Oh for god's sake, bring back JW. The bad writing is contagious!

I knew the Pirates didn't hit LHP either and betting against 'Night/Home' Hamels over the course of his career generally hasn't been a smart move. Yeah the day/night split difference has gone away but he is still a better pitcher at CBP. Generally don't like to bet against Hamels for that very reason.

Hamels did exactly what he needed to tonight too. Finally settled in later on after the 3rd inning & found his fastball command and the feel for his changeup.

Normally it would have pissed me off regal that Cholly brought Hamels out there again in the top of the 8th when he was clearly fatigued. When Hamels gets tired, he really starts to hang/groove his fastball. Exactly what happened tonight & it put the game out of reach.

Tonight though with most of his bullpen unavailable he decided to ride Hamels as far as he could. Wasn't the worst decision I guess especially given the alternatives.

Brown is now just 1-13 since he came back (5 BBs) and his swing doesn't look right at all. It's all herky-jerky again with him really pulling off.

I bet bottom dollar he did more than tweak his back & is feeling its lingering effects.

Exactly, MG. There wasn't a good option in the 8th. I thought it was a no brainer to send him back out. Would have been interesting if they could have put a runner on in the bottom of the 7th and force his hand. I think it very likely he would have let him hit with 2 out and Kratz on second. Definitely with a runner on first.

Revere now stands at .205/.241/.229 (.470 OPS) this month in 83 ABs.

I would be curious to see where that stands with Phils' hitters in recent memory who have had at least 50 ABs in a month.

The recent platinum standards for Phils' offensive ineptitude have to be Mini Mart and No-Hit Nunez

Neither Mini-Mart or even No-Hit were as bad as Revere when they had at least 50+ ABs in a month.

No-Hit had some horrendous freaking months and his closest was in June '06:

.105/.128/.211 (.339 OPS) in 38 ABs

Mini-Mart is the closest with his craptacular June '12:

.133/.188/.200 (.388 OPS) in 45 ABs

When you started getting compared to No-Hit Nunez and Mini-Mart offensively (platinum standards of Phils' positional player offensive ineptitude the last 20-25 years), you have having a really bad month.


Fascinating to see him succeed as a reliever but he essentially has 2 pitches: cutter and really good curve.

Basically is Durbin except he doesn't throw slop because his cutter is 3-4 MPH fastball & he has a good/really good curve.

Pirates ripped off the Red Sox when they got him as a cost-controlled asset for a fat and aging Hanrahan. That trade wasn't very well received at all in Pittsburgh but it was one of those savvy moves a small-market team needs to make.

I don't know if the Pirates are a better team yet than the Phils because of their starting pitching limitations but I would take their starting 9 right now over what the Phils are trotting out.


Howard is hurt. I have no doubt about that. Howard couldn't even run to 2nd tonight on that double he got credit with & would have been out by 15 feet if Barmes hadn't had a complete mental block on the relay through.

Why this team won't put him on the 15-day DL, let his groin heal, and call up Ruf.

Post-Achilles Howard may not ever be what he was even in '11 but we don't have a good sense of that right now because Howard isn't even at 90%.

Thought process behind how this team handles injuries and roster management is utterly perplexing to me. I'm sure that players especially as the season wears on play through minor aches/pains but if the Phils don't see that the player they are putting out there can't even run right now something is dramatically wrong.

I was hopeful last year that the Phils could turn Pence and something into Starling Marte or Victorino into Brad Lincoln. The former is a player and the latter had potential as a multi-inning RH reliever. Pirates went out and got Snider. Was a white flag, tomorrow move but, I'm inclined to wait and see how they turn out. Seems they've got alot of bats in the system. Pitching is murky but, they have a few big arms in the minors.

Not ready to throw in the towel on "The Great Domonic Brown Experiment" just yet, but I am starting to have my doubts that this kid has the Baseball IQ to be a successful major league ballplayer. By that I don't mean his general intelligence. I mean his baseball instincts. The difference between Brown and Galvis in terms of Baseball IQ, for example, is like night and day.

Give Charlie the horses and he will win. Unfortunately, his current GM seems incapable of finding the necessary horses and expects him to win with an assortment of nags, plow-horses and Shetland-ponies.

How can anyone look at the players on this roster,
The performance of the guys who are supposed to be the key pieces, and think Charlie has more than a minor role in the 9-12 record? Aging core, no depth, underperforming young dudes, crappy middle relief, ... They've even gotten good months from Utley, Young, Mayberry, Lee, and Hamels, Doc, and Rollins have been better. .500 team.

The team needs a couple more rented mules to whip no end. Spell the plow-horses.

Meh,I wouldn't say that Rollins, Doc and Hamels have had good months. Hamels and Doc have basically gift wrapped 4 losses this month, and Rollins has an OPP of .302 right now, and his defense has been less than stellar in the early going.

But I agree with the general point that this roster does not appear to have the requisite talent to be a better than .500 team. That still doesn't excuse the ever present piss poor decisions by the manager.

At what point does a complete rebuild become the right thing to do?

If this team is still in the tank in July (and we have a number of reasons to suspect that it may), this may be the year to put 2008 in the past for good and start building toward the future.

So if that happens, who should be kept and who goes?

I hate to see Rollins or Utley go, but they've got to be in the discussion. Lee is probably the most likely candidate.

If anyone is willing to take Howard, he's got to go. I can't imagine any sort of rebuilding effort in which he remains a Phillie. Same for Pap.

I'm not ready for them to throw in the towel just yet, but if they're still in this shape in July, it's time to build around Hamels, Brown, Galvis, Ruf and whatever young talent can be had in trade. The current incarnation of the Phillies is a team spinning it's wheels that gives little faith that a turnaround is possible (this season, next season or for the foreseeable future).

There's no debate that this year's team isn't a division-winning team. Hell, they're probably not a second place team. But with the dearth of good teams in the NL (and AL for that matter - baseball is really bad right now), they should be competitive for a WC spot. They're not.

It's frustrating. With Howard's lack of power (as he's known to have in April), they have ZERO power in this lineup. God forbid, the approach changes both at the plate and in the dugout.

To me, "going on contact" is the dumbest commonplace decision in baseball. The rationale is always that it keeps you out of a double play. With Revere up, there is little-to-no chance of a GIDP in that situation. 3B is playing up, he has to throw across his body/behind him to 2nd and then the 2B has to have a quick turn and strong relay to get Revere. No chance.

So instead of having a runner on 3rd with 1 out, you have 1st and 2nd with one out. Stupid. Regardless of whether it was Mayberry, Sandberg or Charlie's call, it was stupid. Big spot in the game for a struggling offense and your chances to score decreased dramatically in that situation.

But that is not a Phillies-specific gripe. It's a play I never have, and never will, understand.

The lineup will look a little better when Chooch returns. Kratz has been killing them. He's a backup catcher, nothing more nothing less. He's getting exposed with more ABs (although, he did his some balls hard last night)

When's Delmon Young arriving? [I can't believe I just typed that! THAT'S how bad they'be been offensively]

Rollins is probably the most trade-able guy given his contract, but I don't know how he is valued around the league.

Does anyone expect Rube to be able to move these guys and get more than peanuts in return?

Will: If the Phillies are still like this is July then yes it is time to trade off pieces and rebuild. My guess is you could very well see Lee, Rollins, Papelbon, and Utley on the block with an outside chance at Howard depending on if they can swallow money and get an AL team to take him on.

However, I still hold that 21 games into the season it is not time to shovel dirt on this team. Currently they are 9-12. Looking at their past we see:

2012- 10-11
2011- 15-6
2010- 12-9
2009- 11-10
2008- 11-10
2007- 9-12

Now granted this is an older team and it is a different year but they often start sluggish and then pick it up. With this cast of characters you need to give them that chance. Hamels will start picking up wins. Halladay is improving, and Lee is Lee. I think this is a team that needs Ruiz back. He isn't going to magically change anything but he is a better offensive option than Kratz and the pitchers have a better flow of the game with him behind the plate.

Also- we need Delmon Young in the lineup. At this point he may be replacing Dom Brown but it is hard to argue he won't be an upgrade over him. I said the other day the best thing might be to use the 4 corner outfielders interchangeably. Brown/Young on one corner and Nix/Mayberry on the other.

I realize it is frustrating, no one wants to see the team you love getting shut out against subpar pitching but you need to step back and take some perspective in how the season can play forward from here.

Charlie would be stupid enough to believe that Abner Doubleday created baseball.

My concern on Amaro leading the sell off charge would be this. Not so much his ability to find prospects. They are often a crapshoot anyway.

It would be in his ability to get back major league talent if possible and then fill in the gaps by finding under the radar guys to come in on short, cheap deals and help the team. Gillick could do that. Hell even Wade did to a degree moreso than Amaro. Ruben hasn't shown any ability to do that yet other than signing Pierre last year. If you are trading Lee and possibly Howard you are gonna be swallowing some cash in those deals which will shrink the funds to put a team on the field. That's where you need a guy who can get the most out of his limited funds.

This Justin Upton nonsense is getting out of hand. He had 17 HR all of last year, and is up to 11 HR with a week left in April.

On Day 1 of Michael Young's hitstreak: .345/.424/.552

After 14th day of his hit streak: .333/.400/.431

His OPS has dropped 145 points. Lets pray he doesn't break DiMaggio's record this year or the offense is really in trouble.

Big disappointment last night, but a ways to go before pulling plugs. That said, to have any shot at post season, you can't throw away the opportunities to grab a game that are created by pitching matchups like Hamels v. Locke. Ugh.

Michael Young tied the MLB record for consecutive games with a single(14, Mike Edwards 1978).

Michael Young set the MLB record for consecutive games with only a single being the only hit of the game with 12, previously held by Juan Pierre(11) And Rafael Palmeiro(11).

Fata - it was a compound sentence. Those three have been better.

RB - they're not hitting. Why not fire the hitting coach? Oh, wait.

Jeff Locke has only pitched past the 5th inning 4 times in his MLB career, and never has allowed 0 ER in any start.

If Charlie is fired mid-year, people will rightly turn on Rube. Charlie, for all his flaws, deserves much better than to be run out of town because of Rube's incompetence.

Sophist, sorry, misread your post.

If the team did decide to tear down and rebuild, who would want Howard? a sub-700 ops DH with leg problems who is signed for 3 more years? I think most teams would be able to find that profile for the league minimum on their AAA affiliate, without the injuries or the long term commitment.

I really hope Howard gets it together, but looking at his numbers, I wonder what Amaro & Manuel think of him. I mean, he's putting up his best batting average in 3 years, so his "production" is theoretically up, right?

I remain hopeful that they turn it around, if only because seeing Amaro of the Extra Veteran Year become Rebuildin' Rube would be terrifying. It wouldn't even be all bad in terms of results, and that would be the problem--he'd strike gold once or twice with some ungodly pitching prospect, and then surround those players with the prospect versions of Baez, MiniMart, and Wiggington.

Left alone, I've no doubt he could consistently turn in .500 teams with his blind-squirrel-finds-nut antics.

jbird: I'm not overly worried about Howard yet because April is traditionally a poor month for him and it looks at least like he is trying to go to the other way with pitches which is when he will start to get going again. He is getting hits, just not for power yet. I still tend to believe that will come.

Also, will say this. When you get major surgery on a body part like he did it basically means that body part will never be exactly the same again. That doesn't mean I am saying that Howard is not over the Achilles injury. It does mean though that it requires more to get loose, stiffens up quicker, and can affect how you do other things. It is cooler right now in April than it would normally be so I do wonder if maybe he is having trouble getting the ankle going in games and then keeping it warm and loose throughout the game. Add on top of that the way he is being pitched and him trying to do too much and you have a guy who is scuffling in many ways to start the season.

MG: I don't agree with your comments about howard/brown/etc being 'injured'. Every player in the league will have nagging injuries over the course of a season - little stuff like that shouldn't qualify as being hurt.

If you can't overcome soreness or stiffness throughout the season, then you can't be an effective player, ever. When a player is playing like dogcrap, I don't care if he isn't feeling well, its part of the game.

This Justin Upton nonsense is getting out of hand. He had 17 HR all of last year, and is up to 11 HR with a week left in April.

What I find interesting is that 10 of those 11 HR have been solo shots. J. Upton's lone HR w/ runner(s) on base? Hit off of Roy Halladay, of course.

Game was just brutal to watch. Team might as well not even have a batting coach, let alone two. Starting to realize that either these guys are uncoachable or that Charlie doesn't really let the coaches do their jobs.

limoguy: I don't know if it is uncoachable so much as not listening or not following the plan when they get to the plate.

Does Henderson or Joyner really have to tell a MLB hitter to be looking fastball at what Locke was throwing last night? Do they really need to be told to swing at anything close with 2 strikes?

The good news is that we're only paying Howard $20M this year. The $25M per year doesn't kick in until next year.

Being uncoachable IS to not listen or follow the game plan laid out by the coaches.

It's a lineup full of weak hitters. Literally, "weak", as in "lacking strength". They get a Fastball & even if contact is made, the ball doesn't go anywhere. That's what the club gets for completely devaluing power (HR, XBH) in favor of old men & one-tool youngsters who are "versatile".

Howard's the last person who will be traded, simply because he's untradeable.

If the team did decide to tear down and rebuild, who would want Howard? a sub-700 ops DH with leg problems who is signed for 3 more years? I think most teams would be able to find that profile for the league minimum on their AAA affiliate, without the injuries or the long term commitment.

Posted by: jbird | Wednesday, April 24, 2013 at 09:52 AM

I think most people would assume that Howard is unmovable at this point. Rebuilding would center more on the returns for Utley, Paps, Lee, etc. Not sure who else would net the type of return they need to move the needle on the franchise sooner.

gtown: Upton's HR off Halladay was also on a 0-2 pitch. Only 9 of the 581 HR this season have been on a 0-2 pitch this year.

Why does it have to be about coaches? How about this: for the most part, FO has assembled a team of poor batters (bad approach, no power).

Sophist: I suppose it's interesting that the same FO feels it's possible to coach guys who are apparently physically incapable of hitting well into MLB-grade players.

lorecore: Sufficed to say, J. Upton is having an odd season.

Good piece by Dave Murphy. (I like the clever headline.) Sad, like reading about your family dog no longer able to walk up the stairs and there's only so much anyone can do about it.

Or if that doesn't work, here's his Tweeted link:

Last night, Charlie Manuel spoke like a man who has looked into the eye of the devil: (promo code H66A)

limoguy: Not necessarily true. could simply mean they get out of the gameplan when things spiral out of control in an at bat.

adams = sh** the bed

Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job Ive had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringin home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link,

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