Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Phillies' pitching implodes in 13-4 loss to Royals | Main | Game 5: Phillies looking to bounce back with Lannan »

Saturday, April 06, 2013

Comments

I think you mean that the BP failed to smother the flames, Corey. They did fan them, unless you're making a play on the word "fan" as in strike out. Which would be very clever.

"Frightening" is exactly the right word, however!

No more Chads.

Reposted from previous thread:

The four quarters thing is a very good analogy for Rube's philosophy. How many here wanted Cespedes or Soler when all that it took was a little money? How good would those guys look in this organization right now. How about Aroldis Chapman. Again, all it took was dollars. Instead, the Amaro team heads out to foreign coutries trying to trade spare change for pop guns, hoping those pop guns turn into cannons in five or six years.

This is what happens when there's marginla guys in the 'pen. At this rate, there won't be many leads to protect for Adams & Pap. Only 4 games in, and we're heading 2012 all over again, and that's WITH a healthy Utley & Howard.

"Marginal"

What the Phillies foolishly did this offseason was spend money on Adams and Durbin when they had plenty of internal options who could pitch at an average replacement relievers.

Amaro's big mistake was trading away a stud like Schwimer for essentially nothing and letting a premier setup man like Herndon go. If the Phils had those 2 guys in the pen right now instead of Durbin and an overpaid Adams they would be in much better shape.

Haha, I'd like to take the credit for being that clever GBrettFan, but it was a typo :(

DPatrone- if only they'd have signed Michael Cuddyer last year, he could be putting out fires in the middle innings. Maybe they can coax Ryan Theriot out of retirement to take Chad Durbin's place.

DPatrone good satire

"These other guys need to step up, and soon, or else they won’t be in Philadelphia much longer."

Corey- Who are they replaced by? Our AAA and AA options are going to turn out better?

Not being a wise-ass, just not sure I see a solution.

aksmith: Even worse, the one low-money foreign popgun who has turned into a serious prospect is doing so in the Houston organization after being a head-scratching PTBNL in the Pence trade.

The bullpen management was abysmal. Hmm....bases loaded, turning point of game right here...do I send out one of our best bullpen arms? Nope, how bout Valdes and/or Chad Durbin?

This team is going to be relying more on Philippe Aumont in big spots than any of us (or they) would like.

Bill Baer,

Stop pulling my leg. You are right? "A stud like Schwimmer" "Premier setup man like Herndon"? What in there stays in the league says "stud or premier"?

Adams has history of being a "premier" setup man. As far as overpaid Adams has come cheaply. Two years ago if the Phillies had traded for him he would have cost greatly in prospects.

You have completely overvalued Schwimmer and Herndon.

Turning point was the Horst appearance in 6th. If he gets one out there, one out, the Phils enter the 7th up 4-2 and have about a 95% chance of winning. Everything else is secondary. Get that out, you very probably win.

Horst had a bad outing. Durbin came in already behind, so he didn't lose the game. Though he sucks.

In 4 games, three have featured subpar starting pitching performances, and one stellar one. Not surprisingly, the Phils are 1-3. The bullpen hasn't helped - it's been putrid, in fact - but it has not yet lost a single game all by itself. CHARLIE walked the go-ahead run on yesterday. Why on earth don't you send a fresh-armed Aumont in for one batter to pitch to Gordon, and if he walks him, fine! You're in the same position you'd be if you intentionally walked him. Then go to bastardo.

Charlie blew that game, though Horst was the vehicle.

"The Phils’ bullpen is improved with Mike Adams, but he can only be properly utilized when they have a lead."

I mean, theoretically, Adams could be used in situations where you don't have a lead. Or not the 8th inning. Right?

bittel: I think you mean Aumont should've come in to face Butler, not Gordon.

But yeah, I see what you're saying.

You're always going to have a bullpen problem when your worst pitchers appear in the game a lot more than your best relievers. And that's been the case so far. Partly that's on the starters for not getting deep into games, and partly it's on Charlie for refusing to pitch his best relievers in anything other than their preordained roles.

Here's a good rule of thumb that Charlie should use. Aumont, Bastardo, Adams, or Papelbon should be pitching in any situation where the score is within a run or two, in either direction, 6th inning or later.


I'm not ready to quit on Horst, but it's increasingly apparent that Valdes was a single-season positive. Durbin is junk, & never should have been re-signed. This bullpen is still frightening, but I maintain a belief that, w/ more savvy management, they're not as bad as yesterday's debacle.

aksmith: I just checked, and there's about been about 20 guys in MLB named Chad. I'd say >50% have a negative WAR. There's that guy Chad Bradford, whom I remember as a fungible reliever on the good A's teams circa 2002. "Chad Bradford" just might be the Chad-ist name of all time.

Chad Billingsley is far and away the best guy on the list, and I wouldn't take him for free, not a with his elbow and $25m due to him in the next 2 years.

I can support the No More Chads rule.

Sorry to anyone here named Chad, or from Chad. Nothing personal.

ugh so many typos there. I blame the 12 tabs of Chad-Stats I had open.

Valdes was a 9.0 K/9, 4.2 BB/9 in 70+ MLB innings before last year, with last year's stint improving those numbers. With his ability to throw multiple innings, that should be good enough. I bet this is just a rough patch that he can work through, and that he is better than his potential AAA replacements.

UBIK - You sir, are out of line.

I'm a fan of Brad Chadford, m'self.

"...Adams could be used in situations where you don't have a lead. Or not the 8th inning. Right?"

Sure. And the Manager could also, theoretically, sit Howard against a really tough lefty or, theoretically, look at a stat sheet during the game instead of holding on for dear life to a metaphorical railing.

Ice~ Your big problem is you mix apples & oranges. Whether or not they sign a particular offensive player vs. a relief picher, or a starting pitcher is not the issue. It's WHOM they sign & for how much. And my whole contention this off-season was that they didn't want to go over the "cap". A lower payroll this year is evidence of that. But one might say they spent their $$ on Hamels and they'd be right.

You seem to have a problem with me, but all I speak is the truth as I see it.

I got a chance to watch the game yesterday, and let me ask you something as you're very knowledgale. In your opinion, when it was 4-2, does Pence make the catch on the ball Nix couldn't get to? If you say "yes", then, you could ask: Why trade Pence when they in hind-sight, didn't have (or get) someone to replace him? The answer to that is simple: Money. "cause D. Young doesn't get to that ball either. KK deserved a better fate.

You are correct that Cuddyer turned out to be a dud (and injured). But, based on what Polanco gave us last year, would he have been a better option at 3rd? Maybe, we'll never know. And while signing many FA's is a crapshoot, you also have to ask yourself would the Phils be better off with the 2 Upton's in their OF as opposed to whom they have? You know my feelings on that. If they would have gotten BJ, they would've had a good shot to get Justin. They wanted to play together.

Now I've said I have no problem with Revere & Dom deserves a shot, but RF is another story. The lack of RH power in the lineup is also frightening. We're seeing LH's every game coming in to face the middle of our lineup.

I've also said they wouldn't be in it in July. Don't the stars on this team desrve better? Don't the phans?

Look, I don't know what RAJ could have done to fix the problems. I don't really know really how much money he was allowed to spend. None of us do. But to me at least from the outside looking in, he could've done a better job. You can disagree and take shots at me all you want, but again what will you say when/if this year turns out like last year. Not much, I'd say.

I'll be coming up this July to see a game or 2. I haven't been to CBP in a while. And I can tell you that it costs me a lot more than the tickets to see a game. I'm hoping the expense will be justified. Right now, it doesn't look like it. But I;ll come anyway, because it's what I want to do. I do feel bad though, for the thousands of people who spend their hard-earned money, take time off from work to go see a game like yesterday's. It doesn't seem fair as this team doesn't seem capable to come from behind at all to win. And again, RAJ has to be held accountable for the pieces that he's put in place (other than the stars on the team). This team will not make another run at the playoffs.

Here's a good rule of thumb that Charlie should use. Aumont, Bastardo, Adams, or Papelbon should be pitching in any situation where the score is within a run or two, in either direction, 6th inning or later.

Posted by: Jack | Saturday, April 06, 2013 at 01:27 PM

I would say MAYBE Aumont as well...but to use guys like Horst and Durbin in close, high leverage situations is sheer stupidity. I don't understand Charlie's logic or motivations in that situation at all.

Even including yesterday, Horst has a career 3.12 FIP and 3.85 xFIP. In the minors he's had good numbers since becoming a reliever. Sometimes good pitchers come in with the bases loaded and 2 outs and give up a bases-clearing hit. Sometimes they give up two ground ball hits the next inning. I don't think Horst is a problem.

Durbin is a bad pitcher, as he's shown over a long career.

Valdes looks to be an okay pitcher, though not as good as he looked last year.

I think this post is a huge overreaction to one game based on bad memories from last year. Our bullpen still looks to be a strong point (minus Durbin and Charlie).

DPat: I was against the Pence trade at the time, and remain against it to this day. But there is no way in the world he would have caught that ball. Very few right fielders would have -- and certainly not Pence.

On the other hand, if Dom had been playing RF yesterday, then I'll bet that 2nd runner wouldn't have scored on Hosmer's single in the 5th. Or the 3rd runner on Gordon's triple in the 6th. Cholly's decision to move Dom from RF to LF is the early front-runner for his most costly managerial move of the young season.

Cholly's decision to move Dom from RF to LF is the early front-runner for his most costly managerial move of the young season.

Moving Dom from RF to LF is a move that has "r00b!" written all over it in bright, shiny letters. D. Young is the GM's project this season, & he will be given the RF job when ... if ... he's ever healthy enough to do so. Beyond stupid, in my opinion. But that's a FO genius at work for ya.

(Ooops. Forgot to change the Name back. If you couldn't have guessed, the 02.33PM post was mine.)

From now on, when I write a long post, I'm going to copy it to my clipboard before hitting post. With having to frequently enter scrambled text and with lost posts, it's getting very annoying posting on here at times.

BAP~ Granted. Mybe Pence doesn't get there. Maybe DOM does. Maybe he prevents a runfrom scoring. Point is, RAJ needed to get someone better than whom he got.

And when he didn't spend $$ to upgrade his OF when there were better options avalable, that tells a lot. Now I'm not suggesting tying up players over 30 up with long-term contracts, but the Upton boys are young. RAJ should've done whatever he could to make that happen. We know he didn't try hard enough. The reasons don't matter.

Dom playing LF in order to accomodate the eventual arrival of Delmon Young is one of the most bizarre decisions I've ever seen.

"Hey, here's a guy who might be a starter in our OF for the next five seasons because he can hit, but who hasn't shown particularly good defensive development as he's been moved around the last few seasons. He's got a great arm, though, tailor-made for RF. Should we preference his development and put him at his best position, or should we preference the desire to play a guy who sucks and is signed for a 1-year, $750 K deal in a position he hasn't played in six years?"

How could you possibly choose the latter?

"How could you possibly choose the latter?"

RAJ really couldn't have (could he?), should'nt have. but he DID. And he'll have to answer for that when he has to release D. Young.

Oh my God DPat. Please stop. Please for the love of God. Your schtick is exhausting. Get some new material.

I think you're a nice guy but you keep saying -quite literally- the same things over and over. We get it. You don't think Ruben did enough.

I know its too early to say this. If Durbin proceeds to suck i hope they pull the Gaff sooner than later.

If Durbin lasts the month we'll know for certain the Phillies have simply quit trying.

Ice~ I wish I could. But things are getting worse instead. I'm not the one who keeps going back to Cuddyer etc. That's you. I talked about marginal guys in the 'pen and you're the one who came back at me. I mentioned no names.

Don't be sarcastic. You tell me you get it. But then you act like you don't agree? And besides, it's not a schtick, it's the truth. And if you were the one to have come out and said it in the first place, no one would disagree with you. What you or others can't come to grips with, is that someone other than yourselves, may be right on about a particular issue.

"instead of Better".

I don't understand why Dom is playing LF instead of RF in favor of the eventual Delmon Young, either. I'm not looking forward to his arrival, but I hope the man's been practicing fielding, throwing and hitting like he's training for the Olympics.

The only thing I can think of is that Dom's not a terrific fielder, so put him in LF. But I understand that Delmon isn't, either, and at least Dom has good arm strength for throwing...which brings me back to I don't understand.

Mandy Housenick ‏@inthephilshouse
Phillies starters have allowed 15. RT @SFGiantsFans: Giants starting pitchers have yet to allow an ER through 4 games, tossing 26 innings.


That would be great, if I could cheer for the Giants. At least BAP's 2nd team shows promise...again.

Thx Jack for the fix.

@GTD: They're not giving up on Durbin in April if they kept Qualls until whatever the hell it was last year (June? I've tried to block it out.) But here's the thing: if Durbin doesn't pitch in anything but mop-up situations (of which it looks like there will be once/twice per week), you barely notice he's on the team, as it should be. That was Aumont's inning yesterday, one he should have begun after recording the final out in the sixth. How did Durbin get ahead of the Stutes/Aumont winner in the pecking order? Last year's uneven version of Aumont was so far superior than anything Durbin can give you at this point in his career it's scary.

I assume all this will be worked out within the next few games. Once the bullpen is set I expect a nice little run from the Phils. Until then, more pain may be coming.

GBrettfan: http://i.imgbox.com/abdXCCJl.jpg

Sorry, but it's the best I could do. Friggin' Piscopo was all over the place.

GBrettfan: http://i.imgbox.com/abdXCCJl.jpg

Sorry, but it's the best I could do. Friggin' Piscopo was all over the place.

GBrettfan: http://i.imgbox.com/abdXCCJl.jpg

Sorry, but it's the best I could do. Friggin' Piscopo was all over the place.

Grrrr. This is not my weekend.

"But here's the thing: if Durbin doesn't pitch in anything but mop-up situations (of which it looks like there will be once/twice per week), you barely notice he's on the team, as it should be."

2 problems with that logic. First, when your team can't score runs, there probably aren't going to be too many mop-up situations. Second, those mop-up situations can turn into tense games pretty quickly if you've got a reliever who can't get anyone out.

Tonight's Lineup vs. Kansas City: Revere (CF), Rollins (SS), Utley (2B), Howard (1B), Young (3B), Brown (LF), Mayberry (RF), Quintero (C), Lannan (P).

So we're working with a 6.5 man lineup tonight. Terrific.

Mayberry is the .5?

Mayberry Young are both .75.

Any idea why the XM feed is an inning behind? That sure messed me up yesterday.

Thanks for the pic, GTown. :)

@BAP: I meant mop-up as in: we're 4+ runs behind OR ahead. One/two of those per week, on average.

All these decisions are not hard to figure out.There is a logical explanation,it's call THE GUT!
Until it can be replaced by Brains or Logic,it'what we have.

"So we're working with a 6.5 man lineup tonight. Terrific."

This is the Amaro method - pay a handful of guys a fortune, and fill out the rest of the roster with aging riff raff.

I know its early-but its not too early to play good baseball. Our defense is starting to scare me. We know Howard isn't great defensively-but Mike Young, Chase and our
corner Outfielders are looking raggedy.
And-what exactly has improved about our
approach to hitting -or baserunning???
I am scared--very scared that we are still
a second division team!

The mop up duty guy isnt thrown in to give up a gazzillion runs either as BAP touched on earlier.

Who was that pitcher they cut right after spring training... he had an ERA under 2.00 and looked great... is he still AROUND !!!

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG