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Thursday, April 18, 2013

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The scoop on RAJ's presser, from Dave Murphy:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Ruben-Amaro-Jr-meets-the-media.html

And yes, he used the word "production".

Either r00b is every bit as dumb as I've long suspected him to be, or he just started up a bus & is in the process of maneuvering Charlie in front of it.

"I think it's ridiculous that we've had no walks in three days. I cannot believe it. More importantly, it's about not just walks, but producing, and we haven't done that."

Mind = Blown.

To be fair he lopped hits and hits with runners in scoring position in there.

Rube has to be trolling us...

Though I honestly think he is that stupid and he makes Omar Minaya look like a brilliant evaluator of baseball talent.

The comparison of Amaro to Minaya is increasingly apt. Total ignorance.

That last answer about 'production' is why Amaro is perceived (and possibly rightly so) so poorly by some.

It's not the Phils aren't hitting in scoring position either on the season. They have a .274 AVG with RISP (8th in NL). Overall they are hitting .238 (12th in the NL). If anything, they have really overachieved there and what Amaro said simply isn't that valid.

I try to give Amaro the benefit of the doubt at times but when you say stuff that foolish or that simply isn't true is it is pretty hard.

Quickly working his way to becoming the most reviled figure in Philly sports.

Amaro's claim to fame is taking a WS champion and running them utterly into the ground to the point where it'll take a full decade to recover as a franchise.

That's impressive.

It's far from certain that this homestand will be good for the Phillies. Far far far from certain.

"I think it's ridiculous that we've had no walks in three days. I cannot believe it. More importantly, it's about not just walks, but producing, and we haven't done that."

No single beerleaguer could have posted a better "fake" quotes if they tried 1000x, which we did.

I am jaw dropped.

MG: It's the part about the BBs that gets me. If r00b is honestly shocked he's incredibly stupid. And if he's being intentionally disingenuous, well, that tells you all you need to know about the kind of guy he is. Neither option is good for the ball club.

I do understand what Amaro is saying about 'producing' in that there are a bunch of guys who didn't hit on the road trip badly including Utley, JRoll, Howard (Reds series), Revere, and Kratz.

It unusual to have so many guys go into a funk like that for a 6-game stretch.

Considering that he has used the word "production" in about 15 consecutive interviews, it's a failure of the media that not a single guy has yet asked him, "What exactly do you mean by production?"

After an entire offseason of damning walks/OBP while instead looking for production, I just can't believe he would say those exact words.

Whoever didn't smack Amaro in the face after he spoke those words is better man than I.

Whatever. This is a perfect time to clean the cat box, because what's in there can't possibly reek more than what r00b's attempting to sell to us.

"What exactly do you mean by production?"


Why bother? He'd just say something like "Scoring runs" and not elaborate any further.

I dont think he grasps the concept of teams with higher OBPs score more runs. If it were up to him, he'd have a lineup of 9 Dave Kingmans.

Remember, this is a guy who thought Michael Martinez was a viable MLB player for 2 full seasons.

NEPP: "Amaro's claim to fame is taking a WS champion and running them utterly into the ground."

This is the kind of clear-minded thinking we expect from NEPP. Amaro took a 92-win team and utterly destroyed it winning only 93, 97 and 102 games the next 3 seasons.

I know the Phillies have guys that don't draw walks but even still you think you'd back into a walk at some point in a 3 game series. I think the issue is that the Reds pitchers were either right on or right around the plate the entire series. Neither Arroyo, Bailey, or Leake looked wild in any way in that series.

Also, a full decade to recover...NEPP's skill is hyperbole.

"It's good to be home."

We'll see if that's still the prevailing sentiment come the 8th inning or so of tonight's game when Aumont walks in a run or Howard whiffs feebly at some offspeed slop. Home can be a real tough place to play when you're not "producing."

Yes, much like I could take a massive loan out against my house and run up massive debt with an extravagant life-style for a few years till the bills came due, he definitely did that, clout

nepp: again, clout doesn't understand the role of salary/resources in baseball, remember? You have a better time of explaining how to calculate OBP to Amaro than make a financial analogy to clout.

Rollins, Galvis, Utley, Howard, Young, Mayberry, Revere, Kratz, Hamels.

"Good to be home," indeed...

Setting the O/U on total number of hits out of the 6-9 portion of the lineup at 2.5.

"• The Phillies struck out 24 times and did not record a single walk in the series vs. the Reds."


I'm not worried. Amaro assures me we'll get "production".

(psssst, I heard that from DPat's source.)

Two of those coming from Hamels, I assume?

So is it official that the Yankees are the new 2012 Phillies?

"UPDATE: General manager Brian Cashman announced that a CT scan revealed a “small crack” near Jeter’s previous injury and the Yankees expect him to miss the entire first half. As of now he won’t need an additional surgery, but according to Cashman there is no timetable for Jeter’s return."

lorecore: I do understand wins, however. And I also understand that a team overpays for veteran players and underpays younger players.

Your posts almost never have a point and this one is no exception.

WP, you mean for the entire homestand, no?

Because if you mean the O/U for the 6 - 9 hitters is 2.5 hits for the entire series, I'll take the "under".

Yes, its smart to lock up players super early on massive extensions like he did with Howard. That was a great move. Its great to sell off the entire farm system in win-now moves rather than attempting to build a sustainable model for winning.

Especially when you aren't going to keep that salary level as they showed when they went cheap this winter and cut payroll. Those huge contracts to veterans with declining skills compound the problem once you cut overall payroll as they become an ever larger % of your usable resources. Gutting the farm system made it nearly impossible for any internal replacements to arrive and not understanding how the market was changing whether it be going cheap in the draft or not waiting 3 days to sign Papelbon to a huge overpay AND giving up a draft pick as a result, etc etc.

Yes, Rube is a great GM, clout. Its funny when pretty much nobody in all of baseball agrees with that opinion.

Tough news on Jeter though...crappy way for a Hall of Fame career to wind down.

is "wins" when you don't lose? I can never remember.

Swing Batta Swing!

Phils 3.5 runs tonight: OVER(even)/UNDER(-130)

"is "wins" when you don't lose? I can never remember."

I thought those were called "suspended games?"

Shame if Jeter's career ends like this. I loved watching Rivera come in the other night and just slam the door on the DBacks for his 4th save.

I loathe the Yanks but have always rooted for/like Rivera & Jeter a lot.

And somehow the Yankees have an 8-5 record, & have managed to score 16 more runs than the Phillies in 3 fewer games. Let's not even mention the differential in RA ...

is "wins" when you don't lose? I can never remember.

For the Phillies those are called "Days Off".

Youk is out to a great start for the Yankees. He's one guy I really wanted the Phils to go after largely because of his power & OBP at 3rd.

Take a .250 guy who hits 20+ HRs and has an OBP that is over .350 because he walks over say Young at .280 but with 10 HRs and an OBP below .350.

Sometimes the gamble the future to win now works and results in multiple World Series. Sometimes it doesn't and it takes years to rebuild. Sometimes the build slowly for a sustainable future works and results in multiple World Series. Sometimes all it results in is year after year after year of close-but-no-cigar seasons till it, too, falls apart. There is no easy or guaranteed answer.

NEPP: I'm with you on the Howard & Papelbon contracts. And some of the other moves have been totally mystifying. But do you really think the team would be better off if they could take back the Lee, Halladay, Oswalt & (first) Pence trades & bring all those prospects back to the Phillies organization? Personally I think we'd be every bit as bad as we are right now, but with 3 fewer Division titles to show for it. And instead of b*tching about trading away all our prospects, we'd be b*tching about all those prospects (Taylor, Drabek, Carrasco, Marson & Donald) who turned into busts. Our minor league system would be better, to be sure, with Singleton, Cosart, D'Arnaud, and Santana. But since none of those guys is in the majors, they wouldn't be helping us right now.

Frankly, I still think the 2 worst trades RAJ has made were the ones where we RECEIVED prospects -- the second Lee trade & the second Pence trade. Which makes it kind of hard to argue that trading away prospects for stars is the reason we're in our current predicament.

Who angry/awnry is Cholly going to get when asked about his stupid lineup after the game tonight if the Phils don't hit?

I almost hope something asks if he thinks Frandsen should start in LF.

I would've kept Lee around for '10, w/ or w/out the addition of Halladay. From my perspective everything started to go wrong when r00b unceremoniously dumped a guy who just had a fantastic Postseason for so much crap.

NEPP: "Amaro's claim to fame is taking a WS champion and running them utterly into the ground."

"This is the kind of clear-minded thinking we expect from NEPP. Amaro took a 92-win team and utterly destroyed it winning only 93, 97 and 102 games the next 3 seasons."

Clout~ NEPP is right. He's talking about what the team has morphed into NOW, which is not very good.

With everything that RAJ's done collectively, the klast couple of years, the team is not a threat to make the playoffs at all. Don't forget, he made the statement about the payroll & putting a championship-caliper team on the field.

Now, I've said before that his hands may be tied. And while he may have thought that he was maintaining the team's elite level with what he's done, it obviously didn't work out. And as we all see (or will see), it'll get worse before it gets better.

Yes, they won a ton of games, and it got them division titles. But what happened in the playoffs in '10 & '11? One & done that's what. That doesn't count for much.

They used to be a team that teams were scared to play. Not the case now. How long will it take to get back to that? Don't know. And whom will be the GM to re-build? Again, I don't know, but it shouldn't be Amaro.

So NEPP, you keep thinking what you think and post it, because you're absolutely right.

Interesting point about trading stars for prospects. One has to wonder if this year's team would look as bad right now with a Victorino and a Pence in the lineup.

NEPP gets the coveted "DPat" endorsement. What a week this has been.

Dave - I think that was due to management and the cost it would have entailed that season. I don't think Amaro had any choice to keep both Halladay & Lee.

I'm glad Revere was moved down in the lineup, which may make him relax more. I read a quote of his today that he's been working on adjustments in the cage. Hopefully, the combination of moving down in the lineup and the work he's doing will help him get on base some more.

“It’s a little adjustment and a little kink in my swing,” Revere said. I’ve been watching film with Steve Henderson and stuff and I kind of found out what I’ve been doing wrong since spring training. I haven’t been swinging the way I had been swinging in spring training, just kind of been going back to the film and seeing what I’m doing and kind of been working some drills today and I feel a lot better right now swinging in the cage because lately in BP and stuff I’ve kind of been off a little bit.”


Jimmy needs to break out of his funk.

I'd still like to see Young bat between Chase and Ryan.

I suppose I'll pose my daily inquiry - is this the damn game chat thread or what?

RAJ could have done three things differently, and I believe this team would be in better shape:

1) Not trade away Lee. Since we now know that Lee wanted to be here, and since there was no reason to trade him away for the 2010 season, it's completely reasonable to assume that we could have been that much better in 2010, and still had Lee for the last 2 years, and now.

2) Not trade for Pence. This trade is the classic double-whammy bad trade. It was unnecessary and an overpay. With or without Pence, the 2011 team would have been the #1 seed in the playoffs. Who knows if the playoffs turn out differently without Pence, but we would have been in the same position going in.

3) Not give that contract to Howard. For all the credit that RAJ gets for building us up to the 102 win juggernaut we were in 2011, that was in the final year of the 3/54 deal that Howard signed prior to the 2009 season. Locking up Howard to the 5/125 deal did nothing to accomplish the great season from 2009-11. It just serves to hurt the team now..

I think if RAJ had not done 1) and 2), and taken a more patient and prudent approach w.r.t. 3), this team would be in much better shape right now.

MG: In which case I would have kept Lee, dumped Blanton & moved on. Halladay was not worth losing Lee & re-signing Joe-Bla the Hutt.

BAP: Ok, so they've failed to develop any prospects who made it big with other teams. And they've failed to develop any prospects who have helped the team here.

Maybe, just maybe, they have an issue with developing prospects.

I suppose I'll pose my daily inquiry - is this the damn game chat thread or what?

Posted by: Willard Preacher | Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 06:56 PM

Whatever thread happens to be active during the game is the de facto game chat thread. You just gotta roll with the punches, my man.

Preacher: The game thread isn't about easy identification, it's about production!

More of the same from DPat...

BAP: Agree with you on the trades. So far no one we have traded has made a difference on a major league roster and there is no guarantee they would've. Look at Brown and how highly viewed he was- we are still waiting for the breakout.

I do think Amaro made the wrong move in acquiring Pence- not necessarily because the pieces we traded will be contributors but rather because- it wasn't necessary.

And the problem is not the payroll number, it is moving the money around to bring in guys and maximizing the amount of money you have. I used a Poker analogy the other week so here is another one. Having a small stack doesn't mean you automatically lose, but it does mean you need to judicially play your hands to try and come back and make up some ground. The problem I think Amaro has is that he isn't good at finding the diamonds in the rough like some other GM's are.

Sorry Patrone and NEPP, gotta side with clout here. Its easy enough to look at the picture now and complain, but its also completely unfair. The 09, 10, and 11 teams all had a legitimate shot at winning the World Series--as a GM, what more can you do than that? He can't play the games for them, or make the managerial decisions.

I think its legit to be angry about some of Rube's moves but the "running them into the ground" bit is wildly overstated.


Interesting point about trading stars for prospects. One has to wonder if this year's team would look as bad right now with a Victorino and a Pence in the lineup.

Posted by: Dragon | Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 06:52 PM

A very good point; despite the incredible vitriol heaped on Pence last year on Beerleaguer, he managed a 774 OPS and 17 HRs before being packed off to SanFran; our lineup could certainly use even the "underperforming" first-half-of-2012 Pence right now.

Whoops, make that 784 OPS.

And to answer MG's point that he didn't think RAJ could have kept Lee and Halladay in 2010, I say that that just pushes the issue back one peg from "RAJ" to the "Front Office". Basically, the Phillies organization made a bad decision to trade away Lee in 2010.

This bad decision is compounded when we leaned later that Lee wanted to stay with the Phillies and work out a long term deal at the time.

So either they knew he wanted to work out a long term deal, and they balked at it at the time due to monetary concerns, which magically vanished a year later, or they didn't know that he wanted a long term deal,, and that's just beyond incompetent.

Fatalotti: r00b couldn't let go of having failed to get Halladay earlier in the '09 season. I think he viewed Lee as a half-season pickup from the get-go, & never even bothered to inquire any further because he simply wasn't interested. Halladay was going to be his big off-season deal, some hell or high water.

timr, I think it's pretty easy to find fault in some of the moves that RAJ made, when you realize that there are a few moves he could have avoided doing or done differently that would have likely still resulted in us being 90+ game winners in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

As I said already, the Howard extension did nothing to fuel those teams. It only kicked in last year.

It can easily be argued that the Lee trade to Seattle actually hurt us, and even though we made the WS, we would have been a better team that year if Lee were in the rotation all season, as opposed to only 2 months of Oswalt.

And the Pence deal did literally nothing to fuel those teams, since he only showed up in the 2nd half of the 2011 season, and at a time when we were already running roughshod over the league.

BAP is apparently one of the only people alive that believes the second Pence trade was worst than the first. How could any sane person actually think that?

Of course, Pence is in the 5% of the league that he doesn't think is 'complete and utter garbage,' along with Erik Kratz and Ruf.

Here is a thought I've had in the past. I don't think the problem was trading Lee, the bigger issue was resigning him afterwards.

I say this under what I believe is my opinion. The Phillies front office asked Amaro to find money by trading Lee. The fan base had negative feedback to that and then when Lee cam available again the front office gave the all clear to Amaro to spend more money. So basically- we made a silly trade and then compounded it by signing Lee for a ton of money. He makes 27.5 million this year.

DPat is on to something. Teams are not scared to play us anymore so it is leading us to have problems.

Maybe we should hire Leatherface to break into the visitor's clubhouse during their pre game meal. I'm sure Justin Upton getting threatened with a chainsaw will scare the sh!t outta him.

And for the record, I don't have an issue w/ any of the prospects r00b has dealt. None of them has shown much thus far, certainly not enough to be of use to the Phillies right now. Trading Lee & Vic & Pence for essentially nothing, however? Insane. He should be fired for that alone.

" And while he may have thought that he was maintaining the team's elite level with what he's done, it obviously didn't work out."


DPat, clout's point is that, "yes" , it did work out - for three years. 93, 97 and 102 wins through 2011.

For all of those here who are disappointed and pointing fingers (I add "pointing fingers" because I'm in the "disappointed" camp too), did you really expect it to continue forever?

I didn't, I just didn't expect the decline to be so sudden.

Truth~ What else is there to say? Even you see what they've become, and you're not stupid. I will agree that I say it too much. I truely wish there were better things to talk about.

What I don't get is that why so many people here refuse to believe what is. None of us did this to the team did we?

Kratz can't do anything right.

Wait, what?

Love the strike 'em out, throw 'em out double play.

Jack: "Maybe, just maybe, they have an issue with developing prospects."

You will get no argument from me on that.

Fat: It's a minority view, but I liked the first Pence trade. They gave up a lot -- probably too much. And, with a 6-game lead at the time, maybe they didn't need him to win the division. But he helped them secure best overall record and he gave them a slightly higher chance of making noise in the playoffs (even though it didn't work out). Plus, the whole point of the trade was that we were getting a young player who was under team control for 2 more years. The error, to me, was that they turned around and traded that away -- and for insufficient return. Pence would look pretty damn good in our lineup right now.

We're gonna win big tonight...

BAP, don't forget the value of the whole "Good game, let's go eat" meme. I don't even want to think about how things would have been different without that...

b_a_p: Agreed, & for most of the same reasons. r00b quit on pence too soon, & he ended up moving Brown to LF, keeping Nix & Mayberry, & signing D. Young to replace him. It's stupid.

Speaking of stupid, welcome back to the leadoff spot, Jimmy.

I've always been a huge Wainwright fan. Just like to watch him pitch, and I love his 12-6 hook when it's on.

Rollins doing his best Ben Revere impression, except that he hit the ball too hard.

I think it's safe to say that this lineup either explodes for 10+ runs, or is lucky to register a hit before the 5th inning in a shut out loss. I don't see much middle ground.

Welcome back Jimmy

Jimmy reminding us of his first pitch leadoff style.

Hahahahahah. The jokes write themselves.

Rollins showing how to work the count in the leadoff spot.

Maybe Galvis will surprise us all and actually be a good everyday player.

Freddy Galvis is quickly moving up my list of favorite players on this team.

I just hope they hold off on announcing Galvis's positive PED test until after Chooch is back.

I think it's ridiculous Jimmy swung at the first pitch!

Playing Galvis in lieu of Nix in LF is still one of the dumber decisions I've seen Charlie make. And that's saying something.

Damn. I really thought Galvis' speed would break up that DP.

It's early, but Hamels fastball control looks much improved.

"I do think Amaro made the wrong move in acquiring Pence- not necessarily because the pieces we traded will be contributors but rather because- it wasn't necessary.

And the problem is not the payroll number, it is moving the money around to bring in guys and maximizing the amount of money you have. I used a Poker analogy the other week so here is another one. Having a small stack doesn't mean you automatically lose, but it does mean you need to judicially play your hands to try and come back and make up some ground."

Truth I have to disagree on aquiring Pence. It was necessary at the time, given the need for a rh bat. The problem is RAJ gave up too much for him.

Ans as for your 2nd point, I agree. But he didn't do that. I do have to disagree on the Howard contract. Based on what he thought would happen with Howard in FA had he got there, it was the right move, given the player Howard was. He did it a year too soon though.

If the Phils can't win 2 of the next 3, count me the hell out for Sunday's game, not just because I can't deal with bad baseball, but the thought of sitting through a TBag broadcast on the Phanatic's birthday makes me ill. I can't believe the Phanatic doesn't have a restraining order against that guy yet.

Nice play by Michael Young.

I know he's devoid of range, and that sucks, but I've been pleasantly surprised with Young's defense on the balls he does get to this year.

Can anyone explain why the hell Galvis is batting 2nd? No issue with the lineup shuffle but damn

Young does have a heck of an arm at 3B.

Maybe acquiring Pence was a mistake but his power potential would surely help this lineup!

DPatrone: We were going to the playoffs at that point basically. Hunter Pence was a superfluous move and we gave up a lot for him. If you believe in prospects there is no way you can defend that trade.

We didn't need a right handed bat.

Fightins': Charlie thinks he's fast. Short, Latino guy? Must be fast. That's scouting.

did you really expect it to continue forever?

I didn't, I just didn't expect the decline to be so sudden.

No. And none of us exoected to happen so soon. it did though & it's hard to reason with.

"It's amazing, when he first came up, he used to be an automatic out in their lineup, now he's their most dangerous hitter." - Wheels, talking about Molina, or about the exact opposite phenomenon of Ryan Howard

Cole really needs to go deep for us to have a chance...putting 2 guys on like this isn't helping.

Fightins': Charlie thinks he's fast. Short, Latino guy? Must be fast. That's scouting.

Posted by: GTown_Dave | Thursday, April 18, 2013 at 07:24 PM

Are you currently employed by a Major League organization?

No?

Well then, have I got an opportunity for you with the local professional squad!!

"Cole really needs to go deep for us to have a chance"

I read this and assumed you meant he needed to hit a home run for us to have a chance, and I actually didn't think it was that ridiculous a point.

Was Matheny coughing there, or giving a sign to his 3rd base coach?

Fatalotti: I might be interested. Do they hate statistics & value production?

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