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Monday, April 15, 2013

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An underrated highlight of the evening was Sarge's head on crash of the phrase "Hoop De Doo" and the word "Hoopla" to pronounce that Roy Halladay won his 200th game by celebrating without a lot of "Hoop De La"

Im sure we all agree the offense as a whole lost this game. Aside from that, the two big plays to me were Kratz inability to make a rather standard block on a Lee curveball and Nix overrunning the bloop double.

Kratz just simply failed to get to the dirt quick enough. Not much else to say...just a poor ability to catch.

I dont know if Nix prevented Revere from making the play, but technically Nix was in the right position to make an out, he just simply slid too far. Not the easiest of plays, but one he could have made.

ah yes, shane victorino and his lovely vs RHP splits would have been the perfect remedy tonight. Talk about a "smart" hitter too...thats what we're missing!

Posted by: lorecore | Monday, April 15, 2013 at 10:44 PM

I really hate "gotcha" posting. Regardless, Shane:

.341/.388/.364 111 OPS+

vs. Revere:

.240/.296/.240 47 OPS+

How's that work for you?

BTW, Shane's not a platoon player. All he does is bust it and show some baseball savvy. Like I said, a puncher's chance.

Umm, cut,

2012:
vs. LHP: .906 OPS
vs. RHP: .629 OPS

2011
vs. LHP: 1.032 OPS
vs. RHP: .787 OPS

2010
vs. LHP: .921 OPS
vs. RHP: .681 OPS

I could go further, but the point is sufficiently made. Victorino has been a platoon player for a few years now. Unfortunately, he's been bad against the more frequent pitchers in the league (RHP), but his prodigious ability vs. LHP has helped him remain, on the overall, slightly above average.

The slightest mistakes always seem to be magnified in Cliff Lee games because they usually are games where Lee pitches more than well enogh to win but there are no runs on the scoreboard when he's out there on the mound.

And whar was Arroyo actually throwing that was so unhittable by the Phillies tonight? It certainly wasn't fastballs.

Stock Market, Tax Day, Phillies loss, and the Boston Marathon bombs.
Come on midnight make this day over!

On the positive side:

This team is still 6-7, Chooch should give them a decent lift when he is back, and if they start to get some better starting pitching especially from Hamels and Halladay they will to pick up some wins.

On the negative side:

This team is basically at full strength right now with the exception of Chooch and they still looked like they are mired in the mud most nights spinning their wheels. At the last 5-6 players on this roster are pretty marginal MLB players & this team is 2-3 injuries away from disaster.

Said it before the season though and my first real yardmarker for this team is after May 5th when they wrap up the 4-game series with the Fish.

If they don't have a winning record at the plate after playing 13 of their first 32 games vs Mets/Fish (including 7 vs Fish), it's pretty hard to be realistic hopefully about this team's chances of making the playoffs.

Why is Nix playing right field in a tied game in the bottom of the 8th. Why no have a better outfielder in there..

Jack- Cause D. Young is on the DL.
(just kidding)

That last post was an imposter Jack.

How soon before Rollins goes back to leading off?

MG - I understand why you picked May 5th due to the amount of games with the Fish/Mets. But really that date means absolutely nothing. I think a better gauge is what NEPP has labeled as his "day", June 20th.


Also, by my count - that's 3 losses directly attributable to UC's managing. Not a very good trend to start out the season.

Why is Charlie putting in Horst in a tie game when we have Mike Adams? Didn't we bring Adams in as our '8th inning guy'? Who cares if Horst needed work - he shouldn't even be in the bigs.

Squib hit and and a bloop against Horst, then he was forced to IBB Votto. I can't really call that a terrible outing.

Also, "Hoop-de-la" was an instant classic

Redburb: I can't believe Charlie didn't tell his players to score runs off arroyo, what a bad manager!

Cut: yes victorino is off to a better start than revere, but how does he put this team over the edge like your original post suggests? He was as much of the problem in 2012 as anybody.

I'm sure this was beaten to death in the game thread, but I'm going to beat it even more.

Last season, (arguably) the Phils' #1 issue was the 8th inning -- both protecting leads and keeping the game close. To remedy that, Rube gets (arguably) the best 8th inning reliever in baseball to protect leads and/or keep the game close in the 8th inning.

Why, then, on God's green Earth is your 8th inning guy NOT pitching the 8th inning in a close game? Instead, he must rush to warm up and come in with the bases loaded to attempt to bail out the poor decision of the manager/coaching staff.

They had already decided that Adams was "available," so why didn't he start the inning? It was the 8th inning. If they were to get the lead in the 9th or 10th or 11th or whatever, Papelbon would have pitched, so what's the difference?

The mismanagement of this team grew tiresome four years ago. I don't what the appropriate adjective is now.

lorecore: Not scoring is absolutely on the players. But when your team isn't scoring (which was obvious by the 5th inning), it makes the manager's job that much more important. He has to find a way to keep the game close and help his team manufacture a run or two. Our guy doesn't do that. He thinks his contribution is done once the lineup card is filled out. Utley bailed him out. And he was looking for Adams to do the same.

lore - So Horst was the best option to start the 8th? If the manager believes that Horst is the best option in that situation and you agree, well I really have nothing to say.

Charlie manages his pitchers as if his offense will later get him or reclaim the lead later in the game regardless of whether it's the sixth or thirteenth inning. Always has. That confidence is probably a good thing when you're a hitting coach or when you're managing a juggernaut offense. Unfortunately, neither of those cases apply right now.

Also, I know Horst was a bit unlucky, but he really shouldn't be pitching in that situation. Was Bastardo unavailable? He's a better reliever than Horst and should be higher on the priority list in the 8th inning.

This offense is missing a centerpiece bat.

In concert with the idea that the offense is missing a centerpiece bat, the farm system has not produced a competent everyday player since the golden quartet of Howard, Utley, Chooch, and Rollins made it to the show. Ruiz was the last one in 2006, 7 years ago. Dom Brown does not yet count as a competent everyday player.

I would have started Adams in the 8th if available, but that didnt win/lose the game. Adams gave up as many hits as Horst did.

As I figured- after the game in his press conference Charlie said with the lefties coming up for the Reds they wanted to go with a lefty. That begs the question then why would you go with Horst and not Bastardo.

Perhaps they felt Horst could get Choo and then save Bastardo in case they got into a spot with Votto or Bruce, but then when the bases were loaded they went with Adams.

It is head scratching but not in the way I first thought.

So what we can assume after last night is Horst > Bastardo.

I don't want to hear about saving Bastardo. You needed him there, in a high leverage situation. That's what you have him for. To get tough outs.

It's only April 16th and Charlie has mismanaged the bullpen on multiple occasions.

Charlie Manuel hasn't understood how to manage a bullpen for pretty much his entire time here, with a few rare exceptions every once in a while.

It's not even worth getting exhausted over. The only way you'd stop seeing bullpen management issues is if this bullpen was 6 pitchers deep with talent.

Since it's not, this is what you get with Manuel. He's good for 1-2 head scratchers a week.

And he'd be damned if he'd let himself be outdone by Dusty friggin' Baker in that department.

NOTE: Dusty's decision to pitch to Utley with Arroyo was FAR dumber.

In a season in which this team will need every single win and on a blog that had people arguing about Nate Schierholtz being good for 1 extra win the biggest issue still at hand is Manuel.

"In concert with the idea that the offense is missing a centerpiece bat, the farm system has not produced a competent everyday player since the golden quartet of Howard, Utley, Chooch, and Rollins made it to the show. Ruiz was the last one in 2006, 7 years ago. Dom Brown does not yet count as a competent everyday player."


jbird, they'll tell you that it's because they traded away a lot of talent (Lee, Halladay, Pence, etc.). However, I would counter that by asking what player who they have traded away has become a competent everyday player for another organization. I cannot think of any.

Now, they did trade away Gavin Floyd and he's been a decent mid-rotation SP, and Josh Outman (Blanton trade) looked like he was going to stick in the Show until he had TJ surgery. He's in AAA now and couldn't crack the Rockies roster. Taylor Bucholz became a decent RP for a while but he's retired now.

But they're all pitchers.

So, you raise a very valid point: Who has the farm system produced since 2006 that is actually contributing as a competent everyday position player - whether on the Phillies or another team because of a trade?

I cannot think of any.

And to piggyback off awh here we are looking back yet again at how important Wade (more likely Arbuckle) really was in harboring bats on the farm.

awh, Michael Bourn

BTW, for all of you who are wailing that Charlie should have used Bastardo, let me first say that, in principle, I agree.

However, I ask: Was he available? I would think so, but maybe he has some minor ailment of which we're not aware.

Edmundo, thanks. I knew I had to be missing someone, but he didn't pop into my head.

So, is THAT it? One position player in 7 years?

awh, and he became a FT regular 5 years ago. :(

Awh - You bring up a good point. But the elephant in the room is those years were the Gillick years. Did Gillick destroy the farm?

If Bastardo wasn't available then Adams wouldn't have been a bad fallback plan.

Joe D - Arbuckle was here through 2008. He is responsible for 06-08 as much as Amaro is responsible for 09-12.

Fair enough, Red, but prior to 2008 Ruben was fetching wawa coffees for the office.

Fair enough, Red, but prior to 2008 Ruben was fetching wawa coffees for the office.

Posted by: Joe D | Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 09:27 AM

Pretty sure that's not even close to accurate. It's been widely reported that RAJ was in charge of contract negotiations and had a hand in a lot of the team's wheeling and dealing even before being named GM.

Edmundo: Bourn came up in 2006 as well. . . although not full time, obviously. His games played for '06 & '07 are pretty similar to Ruiz (Ruiz had more PA).

Well that was a poor attempt at humor on Joe's part. But I don't know why Arbuckle gets a free pass for those years when RAJ gets hammered for the past few years.

It was Red. But my main point is that Ruben didn't have a big hand in the core that is here now and he's done nothing to this point to create a new one. Galvis is a decent player, not a centerpiece. Same can be said for Brown right now too.

It's easier to look back at the 06-08 drafts now and see what the Phillies produced than to look at the more recent ones. Like awh said above, lots of talent has been traded away. Now has that talent become everyday players is another argument.

Joe D, Mike Arbuckle (MA) is, I believe, a special assistant in KC.

He left when they hired Amaro as GM instead of him.

Any decent young talent on the KV roster for which he's responsible?

Who's been drafted since he's been there?

Looking at their starting lineup:

C - Perez was signed as an amateur free agent (AFA) in 2006, when MA was still in PHI.

1B - Hosmer. Drafted 2008 after MA arrived.

2B - Getz. 2005 Draft, pre-MA.

SS - Escobar. Traded from MIL (Greinke, etc.)

3B - Moustakas. 2007 Draft, per-MA.

LF - Gordon. 2005 Draft, pre-MA.

CF - Cain. Traded from MIL (Greinke).

RF - Francoeur. FA signing.

DH - Butler. 2004 Draft, pre-MA.


So, only one of their everyday regular could possibly have Arbuckle's fingerprints on him.

They had some pretty good drafts betwenn 2004 and 2007. Of course, they had some pretty high picks because they stunk.

Correction: Hosmer was drafted by KC before Arbuckle left. Arbuckle joined the Royals after the 2008 WS. My bad.

"Awh - You bring up a good point."

RedBurb, actually jbird raised the issue.

Give credit where credit is due.

awh - Arbuckle spent the entire 2008 season in Philadelphia. How did he draft Hosmer if he was drafted in 2008?

Ah refresh button is my friend.

Sorry jbird.

To those who are unhappy with Manuel's BP decision in the 8th, I understand, but he did address that in the presser.

“Utley hit a home run with two outs,” manager Charlie Manuel explained. “We didn’t really have very much time to get someone in. Horst hadn’t pitched in five days and he was ready. Actually, with Adams, we’re using him a lot. I’m concerned about him. We were kind of hesitant [to use him]. Also, with the way their lineup was with left-handed hitters coming up at the top of the order, we wanted a lefty. When the guy hit the swinging bunt and then the flare into right field -- that broke everything loose. It wasn’t like Horst did badly. Actually, it was bad luck.”

So, yes, there was the stereotypical "Adams needed some rest," but while it was a close game, it was the 8th inning and we were down by 2 and the offense hadn't shown any signs of life. A HR with 2 outs (and then Revere ended the inning) didn't allow Adams enough time to warm up, so Horst started the inning. Once there were runners on 2nd/3rd, the IBB was the obvious call with only one out, which gave Adams a few minutes more to finish warming up.

The end of this game was Horst manure. I generally like Horst, but this was not where and when Horst should've been pitching. Cholly needs to retire at the end of this year. His decision making in game management baffles most right thinking BLers. It baffles me, too!

Phillies have pinched pennies when it comes to amateur talent both foreign and domestic for years now. Certainly the team has opened the purse strings on the MLB level, thank goodness, but they have definitely attempted to save a couple dollars on the young kids, and it shows.

awh: Hosmer would've been before Arbuckle as well. Besides, to be fair you would almost not be able to judge Arbuckle with the royals until next year as that would be about 4 years for 2009 picks to progress through the system. However, i have seen some places (Sickles for certain) that has the phillies system ranked higher than the Royals.

For me, the Phillies issue is hitting. The problem there is they continually take lottery ticket type players which would be fine once in a while. But the Phillies do it a lot and they never seem to pan out. So basically they are putting all their eggs into the same broken basket every year. It would be better if they would go after a guy once in a while who is a proven guy at something- contact, power, whatever. But a guy who has a known skill to build around instead of "Hopefully he develops because he is an athlete."

Saving Adams for what? When we get to the play-offs? It won't matter if we loose the close games like we did last year.

So it comes down to organizational philosophy.

TTI - The Phillies do have some positional prospects that hopefully will make an impact at the MLB level in Tommy Joseph and Maikel Franco. Those are guys who don't fit their typical MO of athlete first, baseball player second. Roman Quinn is the quintessential Phillies draft pick.

That's nice Charlie explained the reason they didn't use Adams but why didn't they get Bastardo up instead of Horst in the 7th anyway? Is the formula not Bastardo-Adams-Papelbon?

awh, we still need to see what Arbuckle's draft picks amount to. I appreciate the research. The verdict is still out somewhat on Amaro too but for the most part he has just dealt pieces away for short-term success.

Bullpen debate aside, you have to concede that this offense should have scored more than two runs off Bronson Arroyo. It would have been zero if not for Utley's heroics. They've scored runs off this guy before. He hasn't reinvented himself at age 36. We have pretty much the same guys that hit Arroyo around on previous occasions.

Sleepy bats return.

jbird: As far as domestic talent goes, it's hard to make that argument stick too well. They've had high-number upper-round draft picks (or none at all) for the past decade.

Part of the reason for that has been their type A/B FA signings, but also how well they've done since '06.

Drabek was the first-rounder in '06 (who apparently looked good enough to be the linchpin of getting us "best pitcher in baseball" Roy Halladay), Savery and D'Arnaud were 1/comp picks in '07 (and we're already dreading facing D'Arnaud before he even hits the majors), Hewitt in '08 was the 24th pick and Collier was in the comp, Biddle in '10 is a top-100 prospect, Green was in the '11 comp round (and is not the "toolsy" sort that BLers have decried the team for picking up in the draft), and Watson and Gueller are still too raw to speak of.

Sure, none of the guys we've picked in recent years have broken into the league as a position player, but the fact that we've gotten so much for them indicates that we weren't the only ones high on them. Prospects fail to pan out all the time - shouldn't we be happy that we've apparently been able to sell high on our guys who do so?

So Manuel essentially considered a 2 run game already a lost cause and wanted to get guys some work in?

I agree with you TTI. The Phillies need to get surefire talent. Hewitt has improved some so there is hope there yet. I for one thought he would be absolutely nothing.

***I for one thought he would be absolutely nothing.
***

Give it a few weeks...he pulls this same mirage of appearing competent every year at some point.

He'll soon be back to striking out 40% of the time with zero plate discipline.

3rock: We were down in the 8th on a night we couldn't score. Adams had pitched in 4 of the last 5 days, and is coming off surgery.

Joe D: Down by 2 in the 8th inning while being shut out by a mediocre starter to that point, and with arguably the best closer in baseball right now getting warm in the opposite BP.

In that situation a comeback seems unlikely, so why use up your best 7th inning guy (who we know has issues with going too many days in a row) when you've got a much better chance of needing him tomorrow (if only because the odds of needing to keep the score close that night were relatively low)?

3rock: We were down in the 8th on a night we couldn't score. Adams had pitched in 4 of the last 5 days, and is coming off surgery.

Posted by: Phillibuster | Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 10:14 AM

That's fine, but why bring him in at all if that's the case? I mean, he either needs rest or he doesn't.

Philibuster: I agree that we've been able to spin some gold from straw. I'm happy about that. I think D'Arnaud & Singleton will be good players. The fact remains however that the team hasn't developed a bat in 7 years. Without looking through every team's roster, I can't say how many other teams are in the same boat. But it seems like an inordinately long drought.

Phillies' spending on amateur talent is routinely near the bottom this is well established.

I don't think it would have hurt to have Bastardo getting warm in case they tied it in the top half. It would have taken a little foresight sure but getting him even just a little warm prior to the Utley at bat would have been a good idea considering who the Reds had coming up in the bottom half. I can't even expect rational thought from Charlie in the moment so yes it's not fair of me to think he could have several plans in place. As it was, Horst was already warm which instantly made him the most qualified arm because we have a manager who is always 2 moves behind instead of 1 ahead. I should be used to this but it still pisses me off.

And believe me I'm not letting the offense off the hook for their terrible performance either.

Its almost as if UC is a terrible in-game manager and probably needs to retire.

Redburb: I agree on Franko and Joseph. I would guess the latter though was more "hey we could use a really good catcher in the high minors," moreso than "hey, he is a talented bat."

With Chooch in a walk-year, we really need Joseph to show he is MLB ready for 2014. They simply can't afford to lock up another aging veteran on an overpriced contract.

Also, it'd be nice for a position player prospect to actually pan out for once.

3rock: Because we did tie it up. Adams was brought in with the game tied, and if it'd stayed that way we had a chance to take the lead in the 9th (or, if the Reds had used Chapman, hold the 9th even and come back in the 10th). The tying HR by Utley came with 2 outs, and Revere grounded out on, what, 2 pitches? No time to finish him warming before the inning ended.

JoeD: If I had to guess, it was because Horst hadn't been used for longer and he really didn't expect the game to get tied up with 2 outs on a night the offense stunk out loud (and that had been the reason for giving Utley the day off to begin with).

As for why they didn't warm up Horst and Bastardo, I'd think that's because it seems like a bad idea to get both your LHRPs warming up at the same time when you're down late in the game. If you're expecting a comeback enough to tie it, you'll want one of them for later in case you end up hitting that spot in the lineup again, and if you're not expecting to come back, then you get one of them worked up for nothing (which could come back to bite in the following days).

I'm not saying the move was the right choice, but I find it understandable at least. Wasn't that the first XBH for the Phils all night?

The biggest problem with the Phillies drafts the last few years is not that they've only taken "athletes." People have this misguided notion that there's some Chase Utley-style proven college baseball player that they're continually passing over every year to take Greg Golson. This is false. Very false.

The Phillies biggest problem is that since 2008, their first picks in the draft have been: 24, 75, 27, 39, and 40.

A combination of being a winning team, signing FAs with no regard to losing draft picks, and refusing to go over slot to sign the most talented players is going to equal a giant drain of talent on your system. You're simply not going to get very many good prospects drafting that low and not paying over slot.

I was getting torched here the other week when Kratz was stinking up the joint for suggesting Joseph should be up now. I get the arbitration clock and yada yada yada but this team needs a guy like him to at least breathe life into this otherwise lifeless and aging team. We know what Erik Kratz is. Great story, glad you made it big guy but this team could be getting Joseph valuable ABs in the bigs in preparation of 2014. Chooch won't be back then. It's time to stop handling guys with kid gloves. I don't care that he hasn't had many ABs above AA ball. I don't care. Guys can make leaps...it's happened before. Why not find out? What's coming down the pipe that's better? Is the team getting any younger?

I must profess, the love for Tommy Joseph somewhat eludes me. He did hit a decent number of homeruns as a 19-year old in A+ ball. But it was the California League, which is notorious for producing inflated stats. Other than that, he hasn't hit for average, hasn't hit for power, and hasn't shown much ability to draw walks. He does have a good throwing arm but he also has 7 PBs already this year.

"Roman Quinn is the quintessential Phillies draft pick."


RedBurb, yes he is, and boy can he run.

Did you watch that video someone posted last week of his inside the park HR? He's so effin' fast that there wasn't even a play at the plate...attempted.

Hopefully, the guy develops into an MLB player, but he's obviously a long way off from that, and there sure is no guarantee. SSS, but he's only got a .690 OPS at Lakewood right now, with a 13/2 K/BB ratio.

jbird: I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the teams that tend to "produce" great bats from their draft picks fail to get good pitching. The Phillies have concentrated most of their resources on arms of late, and they've had some solid returns.

Sure, there are a few teams that tend to get solid prospects (that pan out well) more often, but they generally do so because they don't lost their best picks to FA compensation.

As for expenditure on the domestic draft, the Phillies have paid slot for quite a while now. That wasn't super-fashionable before the new CBA, but it sure will be now. When you have lower draft picks and you spend slot-money on them, you're going to spend less in the draft.

In a nutshell:

David Murphy ‏@HighCheese
Through 3 starts, Cliff Lee 2k13 is a replica of Lee 2k12. Problem is, so is his offense. Five observations: http://bit.ly/ZuHxbY

Joe: Joseph is hitting .222/.250/.370 with 7 passed balls. I think it's fair to say he wouldn't be doing any better than Kratz or Quintero right now.

Nothing better than on the job training. I would deal with growing pains from Joseph much better than a washed up/never was in Kratz.

The problem with bringing up Joseph now is you don't know what it will do to his development. He's young for his league and hasn't gotten off to a very good start. Honestly bringing him up could stunt his growth to the point that you have to wait 2 years before you find out what you have in him ala Dom Brown. Let him play a full season at AAA and see what he has after that.

awh - I showed that video to my Dad and he couldn't believe the speed Quinn has. I really hope he develops into something special for this team.

It's interesting when discussing the Phils' organizational philosophy, that if you really look at the current roster - the core that was so good for 5 straight years - only 2 of them can really be attributed to the organizational philosophy:


Utley and Howard were both college players - hardly what you would call unproven HS players with tools. Utley had even been a high draft pick out of HS (Dodgers) but chose UCLA instead. Burrell was also a fairly accomplished college player. Of the core that won the WS, only Rollins really qualifies as that "raw HS player with tools" that the farm system developed. Chooch was an international signing, and give them credit, he was a good one.

But Vic, Werth and Feliz all came up outside of the organization.

So really, the two best hitters the team has had the last 7 years - Howard and Utley - were both college players.

On wonders whether the organization really does any self-evaluation in that regard.

Jack: All well and good but the Phillies clearly have a type they look for and whether you are picking high or going over slot won't change that unless they want it too.

Jack: the 2010-12 draft placement aren't responsible for a 7 year drought. Those guys should be still working their way through the system.

On the international front, who are the great hispanic player signings in Phillies team history? Abreu was signed by Houston. Julio Franco & Jorge Bell were good, for other teams, and were 35 years ago. Chooch and . . . Juan Samuel? I've got to be forgetting someone.

Joe D: Why? The results would be the same, and the higher number of PBs means that our pitchers would be afraid to use their best stuff (I get the feeling they're already leery about it with Kratz) with runners on.3

If the objective is to win now then we'd want the best overall product on the field. Like it or not, that's Kratz.

BAP spent two years pining for the horrible Erik Kratz and he 'doesn't get' the whole Tommy Joseph thing. That's pretty funny.

The Phils could have brought Schneider back and been in the same position they are right now with Kratz getting 90% of the starts.

Phillips between Votto and Bruce makes way too much sense. I've been saying the order should be

Revere
Utley
Young
Howard
Rollins
Brown
RF
C
P

Manuel just keeps trotting out the same damn lineup with no balance.

jbird: They've had bad draft positioning for a decade now, not just in 2010-2012.

The Phillies don't love signing international guys much. I can think of a few potential reasons why, but there's no evidence any of them are correct (nor is there any evidence that the Phillies "just don't care about international signings").

I really hope no one is expecting Ruiz to come in and save the day. From a defensive standpoint I can see him helped rather greatly but he's not going to hit the way he did last year. He just isn't. If he does I'd be shocked.

Thanks for that link, GBrett.

This was interesting...

"The Reds have been using Brandon Phillips as their cleanup hitter this year in order to separate lefties Joey Votto (batting third) and Jay Bruce (batting fifth). Utley and Howard, who have batted No. 3 and No. 4, are a combined 2-for-27 with two walks and 12 strikeouts against lefties. Votto and Bruce are a combined 12-for-38 with eight strikeouts and seven walks against lefties."

@Philli...if the results were the same or even worse at least you would be getting ready for the future. Amaro should be looking to get any feathers possible in his cap right now. The pull he got for Pence (on paper to this point mostly) looks pretty damn good considering it was a salary dump. Erik Kratz has no place on this team beyond April 2013 let alone 2014, 15, 16.

Ruiz will hit better than Kratz. That's for darn sure.

@Cyclic see my proposed lineup above for the 800th time I've posted it on here. It's amazing how Manuel refuses to break from old habits.

Philibuster: You're acknowledging my point, Phillies chose to spend less in the draft when they didn't have to, throwing smaller above slot deals to later picks, and now that they have to spend slot, they can't use their financial advantage, which they weren't using anyway.

Me: Phillies haven't produced a bat in a while in part because they didn't spend a lot of money in the draft.

You: Well they Phillies didn't spend a lot of money in the draft so they haven't produced a bat in a while.

Of course he will hit better than Kratz but he's not going to be able to carry the team offensively like he did last year. It's unrealistic.

Cyclic: I'm ok with splitting up the lefties, but it just sounds like Votto and Bruce are better against LHP than Utley/Howard.

Although it looks like Votto's responsible for most of the walks (6) and Ks (5) and Bruce is responsible for most of the hits (8).

I don't think anyone is saying he will carry the offense are they? Ruiz will be a colossal improvement over Kratz at the plate and behind it. I haven't seen anyone make any assertation that he will be the offensive savior.

Philibuster: also, have the Phillies gotten good returns on their pitchers? Madson, Floyd, Hamels, Wolf, & Myers were a long time ago too. The talent on the horizon looks much better on the pitching side, but Biddle, Morgan, et al haven't done anything yet. Best of the rest? Kendrick is a 7 year vet now. Bastardo?

JoeD: I meant that we'd be looking at the same results with the bat. On D, we can generally assume Joseph is significantly worse.

Why not keep him in AAA where he'll actually get more additional instruction on both sides of things (since that's just what the difference between majors and minors is)? "Let's bring Brown up now, because he certainly can't be any worse than what we've got in the outfield in the meantime" sounds eerily similar.

Red, no one has said he will be the savior here. I just hope no one is expecting it anywhere within this fanbase.

Phils bigger issue is that they have guys who I just think are going to struggle a bit/badly vs LHP including JRoll, Utley, and Howard. Breaking them up though would make things a touch more challenging though.

It's frustrating to see Cholly unwilling/unable to adopt to the changes in his roster & team. He's certainly not their biggest weakness but he is the wrong manager for this team last year & this year.

jbird - Drabek, Carrasco, Happ and Cosart were all dealt for decent returns.

JBird: I am acknowledging part of your point, because it's a valid one. However, you fail to connote not spending over-slot with not getting good picks, which is important.

It's not like the teams who picked before us were leaving lots of awesome players sitting around who were worth drastically over-slot by the time we reached the comp/2nd/3rd rounds. It'd be a different story if we were picking in the top 15 and signing guys who probably would last until the 2nd, but we just weren't. We sometimes weren't even picking until 30-40 selections in.

The pickings were slim, and we signed guys who weren't awesome - out of a talent pool that wasn't awesome.

Joe, yeah I didn't think so. I don't know anyone outside of BL who is expecting that either since the PED announcement. (and really Adderall as a PED is just plain silly at this point but that's a separate argument for another time)

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