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Tuesday, April 30, 2013


Amaro is spending $19 million on 2/7 of the bullpen. He's got one guy (Bastardo) that should arguably be a situational guy who is third on the depth chart. The next guy on the depth chart is barely a major-leaguer, and would be relegated to mop-up duty on 90% of other major league rosters (Aumont). The other 3 pitchers do not belong on a MLB roster.

That's utterly pathetic. It's the single biggest failure of his tenure, and it's entirely of his making. He's overpaying the guys at the back-end, made bad signing after bad signing to fill the middle innings (Durbin, Qualls, Baez, Romero part II- I'm sure I'm missing some), and poor roster decisions to round out the bullpen (DeFratus, Stutes, Savery in AAA as Valdes and Durbin are on the MLB roster).

It obviously won't matter if Halladay is the pitcher we saw tonight (I don't think he is, by the way- the pitch selection was atrocious), but the number of games this bullpen is going to blow for a team with an average offense, playing in a ton of close, low-scoring games because of its pitching, won't even be able to be quantified at the end of the season. They can't hold leads; they can't strand runners; they can't keep 1-2 run leads where they are; and they can't even keep blowouts where the team at least has a puncher's chance of making a rally.

A game like this- where the bullpen gives up six runs in 4IP against an offense without two of its biggest weapons- isn't something that occurs with a team that has intention of being over .500. The offense gets 90% of the ink in this space as being the culprit for how bad the team is, when it's the bullpen that's going to keep this team out of playoff contention.

Some nights in a 162 game season you get your doors kicked in. Happens to every team and tonight was the Phillies night for it to happen.

The key is to win tomorrow, split the 2 game set and then come home and take care of business against the Marlins without Stanton.

Young's bat was never a question mark.

(Citation needed)

Hadn't even been paying attention, but I see the Nats lost again, and Gio got shelled- again. He ran up another big pitch count and was gone by the 5th, giving up 5 runs and walking 5.

Said after his last start that his performance beared watching. He's been flat-out bad, as has their entire offense (Adam LaRoche- .472 OPS). I do kind of agree with what DH Phils said last night, though- I'd have rather them taken the Braves down a peg and evened out their records. Now the Braves are really putting some distance between themselves and the rest of the field.

The Phillies scored 2 whole runs off of a pitching staff w/ a 4.37 ERA, & a 1.312 WHIP. With the DH.

Iceman, you're wrong.

It's the bullpen AND the offense that will likely keep this team out of playoff contention.

They'll both give it their best shot, believe me.

Face it fellers. Doc's shot. Kaput. Gonzke. Vamoose. No one with a ML arm puts on a show like this (except Chad Durbin; the r00b exemption applies here. Chollie whips him like a rented mule until one of the "Gang of Six" or whatever they call themselves these days plead: "We don't care about the money!!! Call off the dogs!!!!").

They may need to hustle to get to 81 wins. If they pack it in -- and it appears perilously close to that, no small thanks to r00b's brilliant personnel moves -- the current win pace of 72.5 appears to be eminently sustainable.


cut_fastball: I blame YOU. Maybe someone will bother cluing Chooch in on the realities of the "new Roy" before his next start.

(Citation needed)
Posted by: dlhunter

Well played, sir.

Missed the game tonight and didn't miss much I guess.

Sometimes you need to make change sake for change sake after a game like this and it is in the bullpen.

Durbin has just pitched poorly since spring training and it has carried right over into the regular season. I understand though given his contract & the almost complete lack of organizational RHP reliever depth (for the 3rd straight year in a row) why the Phils might give him a bit of a longer lease into late May.

What I still don't understand is that an organization that touts itself on its emphasis on scouting reports what the hell they saw in Durbin. You don't need any stats to analyze he throws 3 pitches and doesn't throw a single one of them well anymore with spotty command to boot.

Valdes is currently the ispo de facto long-man but I don't understand why De Fratus (who granted has been great at Lehigh) isn't on this roster right now and Horst/Valdes still are.

Amaro needs to make a roster move here in the pen. It's been a month and the middle relief has been horrendous. Aumont hasn't pitched well either but the Phils are just going to have to live with his glaring inconsistencies. There is some upside there & some outings where he can help you out.

The Phils should possible even take a look at C. Jimenez if he continues to pitch well. The Phils 40-man roster is filled and good thing they are protecting filler like Rosenberg, Robles, and Savery. Also have Cloyd and Diekman too on the 40-man roster.

I argued with TTI that the Phils had a ton of garbage on their 40-man roster on the pitching staff and that remains the case.

GTown... if only. I'd do anything short of falling under the bus to whip up on the Braves and regain our rightful spot as the 'Beast of the East'.

Face facts. If you have a live arm, pitch selection is a pretty small part of a pitcher's success story. Tonight was an (oft-repeated!!) travesty.

Doc can't pitch anymore. He'll get lucky. Unfortunately, he'll also get torched. Due to age and mileage, the "fire" part is much more likely to come into play than the "lucky" part.

It is amazing how little attention Haladay's outing is getting.

I'm still concerned about him. In his 6 starts this year, he's been absolutely bludgeoned in 3 of them. Of the other 3, one was against a Stanton-less Marlins lineup, one he looked downright dominant in (PIT), and one he looked OK, but threw 59 strikes and 50 balls (STL).

So, we have 6 starts, 3 atrocious, 1 from which we can't tell much at all (MIA), one from which he was probably as lucky as he was good (STL) and one where he was dominant.

I'm still a little concerned, to be honest.

That is a very interesting distortion of what that discussion was about.


Curious to see what he threw tonight and what his movement was on his pitches compared to his last 2 starts.

Wonder if Chooch called for more cutters catching him the first time & with disastrous results.

For all of the other grousing that people do, it was Halladay's injury and significant failoff that really was the kicker to this team last year. With a '10-'11 Halladay, you had a guy who averaged an outstanding 7.22 IP/GS. Last year it was 6.25 IP/GS. This year it is down to 5.33 IP/GS.

Even if Halladay gives the Phils 30 GS this year, it likely means that the middle relievers had to pitch another 35-50 IP this year simply because Halladay isn't anywhere near as a capable of working into games late.

Besides the fact of the failoff in the quality of Halladay's pitching, that has a huge domino effect on the bullpen & the team as a whole especially as the season wears on a bit.

If Halladay had been healthy last year, this team would have contended for a playoff spot even if they had ultimately come up 3-4 games short. Hard not to see it turning out the same way again this year too.

Face it fellers. Doc's shot. Kaput. Gonzke. Vamoose. No one with a ML arm puts on a show like this...


Tonight doesn't mean any of that really but you have jumped into the early lead for overreactions to tonight's game. Good job setting the pace.

My 10:36 post was referring to this comment by MG:

I argued with TTI that the Phils had a ton of garbage on their 40-man roster on the pitching staff and that remains the case.


That was an interesting distortion of what that discussion was about.

TTI - We argued about bullpen depth and the quality of the Phils' relievers on the 40-man roster. I said the last few 4-5 relievers on the 40-man roster were crappier than any team in the NL East with the exception of the Mets.

cut_fastball: What I meant was, ditch the Cutter. It's the common denominator between lesser but effective Halladay, & lesser Halladay gets shelled.

MG: And that is very different from how you present the argument in your initial post. The post at 10:28 makes it sound like 1 of 2 things:

1.) I was arguing the Phillies do not have trash on their 40 man- which would be ridiculous to argue against.

2.) We were discussing the roster as a whole which we were not.

You said the Phillies had a ton of garbage relievers on their roster. I didn't disagree with that, I just pointed out that many teams do as well and the Phillies are not an anomaly in that regard. You checked 4 teams and said I was wrong which is kind of selecting your own boundaries for the argument. But whatever-

TTI - We talked about the NL East and the only team we debated was the Mets. Even there, they went the 'quantity over quality' approach this offseason signing several relievers on minor league deals/small 1-yr deals.

I acknowledged that every team has some crappy/marginal arms on their 40-man roster but not 4-5 relievers.

cut: Gio Gonzalez got rocked tonight. Is he finished kaput?

Starting pitchers get torched from time to time. With Halladay every start is getting over analyzed. Tonight he faced a lineup that has the ability to mash and they did.

"We talked about the NL East and the only team we debated was the Mets."

That is simply not true MG. My exact comment to you was that many teams carry garbage on their 40 man roster. You disputed that by saying the Phillies basically carry way more than any other team.

TTI, there's a reason Doc's starts are getting analyzed so scrupulously. He's coming off an injury that sidelined him all year, that affected part of his shoulder, and he's going to be 36.

And, from "time to time" doesn't mean "half your starts".

Look, I'm not saying your wrong to be optimistic about him. And cut is certainly going overboard (as he is wont to do), but there is legitimate reason to be concerned about Doc's prospects.

Betancourt just hit another homerun. Good thing we didn't keep him.

Also, I do find it humorous that a pitcher like Dan Haren, who struggled last year due to injuries, and is off to a rocky start, is assumed on here by some posters I've read to just not be the same pitcher any more, and that (according to Phillibuster or Sophist at least), there's probably less than a 20% chance you get a good season out of him.

But with Doc, it's simply pitch selection and a bad outing.

Let's hope that's all it is, but let's not bury our heads in the sand while we're hoping that.

TTI - That is exactly what we talked about. I acknowledged that teams don't necessarily have the depth the Braves/Nats did in the pen but we also talked about how crappy & how many crappy relievers the Phils were carrying on their 40-man roster.

Missed the game. Sounds ugly. Reading a lot about Doc, but I see that we also only managed 5 hits.

Was their guy that good or is another case of the Phillies offense making the opposing pitchers into Cy Youngs?

Fatalotti: You might want to wait until Sophist or I say that pitch selection was the cause for how this game went a-rockin' before you cite us as examples of how hypocritical posters are being.

In fact, I don't recall discussing percentages at all - in regards to Haren's likelihood of being effective, though I know Sophist did.

buster, never claimed YOU made any reference to how Doc pitched tonight. And someone was having a discussion with Jack earlier today about Haren: it may have been Sophist (or someone else).

Meant no disrespect, and I wasn't even casting it as hypocrisy, just that we sometimes can turn a blind eye to real issues on our team, while magnifying them on other teams. Not necessarily done with malice aforethought.

I listen to Franzke/LA ( tonight, Franzke/Sarge) on a Sony boombox. I listened until I could listen no more - when Chollie came and got Doc.

When Doc pitched, the sound of the Indians' batted balls was horrifying. Every out was "loud". The HRs were mortars.

Who said "...the batters tell you when it's time to go." Was it Schilling? Unfortunately for him, it's probably the 1 time he's told the truth.

Wow... Me use punctuation pretty some day.

I liked the game thread better. When we were discussing the feasibility of replacing Revere with a Labrador mix.

Fatalotti: Ahh, my apologies then. Brain apparently working at half-speed, and I had the added bonus of a bit of nastiness from some of my students today.

Anybody notice that the pitching staff could have given up only 3 runs and we still would have lost. And that's WITH Chooch and Delmon in the lineup.

Hard to blame this one on Delmon, sad to say.

Don't worry. I'll anchor this staff.

10 fly balls tonight off of Cleveland bats, 7 of which went over the fence. I'd be curious to know the last time that happened.

buster, yeah, sorry, my post did come off kind of d!ckish. I just think it's time to admit that there may be real cause for concern with Doc this year.

To those who don't watch: tonight's Daily Show has an awesome segment on homosexuality in professional sports. Including a photo collage of shame.

Fatalotti: I think there's definitely been some concern about him already, but we'd started to settle down about it as his results settled down. This definitely puts things back on notice again, however, in the same way that Adams' being rocked the other night got folks a little nervous he wasn't fully recovered from his surgery (or, more disturbingly, his thoracic outlet syndrome wasn't fixed by the surgery).

I wonder if DYoung can pitch.

I saw where Iguodala had a nice game. Credit where due.

'buster, yep, a disconcerting night to say the least.

Suffice it say, after a calendar month's worth of play, I'm pretty far down on the team's chances of making the playoffs. If they had anyone in the minors who could be brought up have a shot of making a huge impact (like a Taveras or Profar type player), or they had assets to make a big trade that could fill a huge hole, I might feel slightly better.

But this is the roster with which they will sink and swim. You can shuffle the bullpen pieces some, but you're only going to get marginal upgrades, at best. The position players and the pitching staff is what it is, and unless Doc turns into 2011 Doc, this team won't even sniff the 2nd wild card. Unfortunately right now, he's looking more like 2012 or 2000 Doc.

I'll keep watching and hoping, but I'm not feeling it right now.

I would say we're probably a middle-of-the-pack team. Fortunately for our post-season chances, middle-of-the-pack teams can make the playoffs these days, but it's definitely not going to be something we should expect or find probable.

Which, let's be fair, puts us in the same position as about 15-20 other teams.

Same lineup for tomorrow?
Change defensive positions:
Howard DH
Mayberry 1B
DYoung RF

Same offense , Worse defense.
Feels like a win.

Bubba: Not a lot of call for outfield defense today.

If delmon can play below average defense in RF (that is not atrocious) and hit near his average over the past 3 seasons (17 HR, 80 RBI) he will be a good signing as this offense needs all the help it can get. Also, Ruiz will be good once he shakes the rust off and BRown and revere have nowhere to go but up. I'm not terribly worried about the offense and it should be good nough to get by IF:

Halliday shows he is the pitcher of his 3 good starts and not his last one or first two


The phillies start to rotate the young guys in AAA in for Durbin and Valdes and those young guys are more effective. Aumont and Horst also need to be given the chance to perform. Durbin should not be used except for mop up duty.

If those two things don't happen this team is in big trouble. I'm very disconcerted by the comment that Charlie made regarding Halladay re: he has earned the right to figure things out even if it takes all season. If he has an era over 6 in mid June they need to consider bringing up Morgan or somebody else.

Vegas has Lee between -150 and -165 tomorrow. I was shocked to see that. Bodes well.

@fatti: don;t you think this bullpen can be significantly better if Defratus and Diekman or Stutes are called up and pitch well, while Durbin is DFAed and one of Valdes and Horst are sent down with the other becoming a LOOGY? It can't be too long until that happens.

By far the main thing is getting good starting pitching, though.

Buster- a classic case of hit 'em where they can't catch 'em.

If D. Young must play RF tomorrow -- & there's no reason on God's green earth he should -- why not let Nix DH? I figure Brown & Revere will be out there no matter what, & continuing to play Mayberry vs. RHP is stupid.

Fat - Yup. This team is at full strength right now and if they can't build up some momentum now over the next 2 weeks they just aren't a good enough time to push anything more than .500.

GTown- Agree.
I was guessing what will happen, not what should happen.

I think CM now has Nix cast as his go-to pinch hitter.

The only positive about tonight is that I had to work and miss the last 5 innings AND miss Yu Darvish's start was no big woop as he didn't do anything special. (Only 9Ks)

Wait, none of that is really positive.

For what it's worth, it really did seem like Chooch was calling the game for Doc.v2011 and has yet to adjust to Doc.v2013. Maybe that can change...

Bubba: I don't doubt it. At this point I expect Charlie to do the opposite of whatever I think ought to be done.

To all you haters, I was the first Phillies' player to make his debt and hit a HR in his first AB since Jeremy Giambi in 2002.

As for this outfield, you have a guy in LF who can hit, can't field, and can't stay healthy. The guy in CF can't even hit the ball out of the infield and can't even hit the cut-off man without bouncing it from the warning track. The other two guys are just role players and nothing more.

Tell me why I shouldn't be starting? Guy in LF is a bum, CF is a backup player, and the other 2 guys are bench players.

Hector Luna, May 16, 2012, grandslam in 1st Phillies AB.

NoD is playing RF wed. because Lee insists on hitting for himself. You heard it here first.

Twitty- I hope they bat him ahead of Revere.

This game on Sep 3, 1999 is the franchise record for HRs allowed in a game (9):

It was a 22-3 loss to the Reds at the Vet in one of those many meaningless Sept games at the Vet.

Interesting that Dmitri Young HR for the Reds. Durbin and Valdes would have fit right in with the relievers who pitched that day including:

B. Brewer

Byrd gave up 3 HRs, Brewer 1 HR, Ogea 3 HR, and Telemaco 2 HR.

Serious question: Could a good-hitting starting pitcher be listed on the lineup card as the DH, and could he remain in the game as the DH after he is removed as the pitcher?

I don't have much more to add to this other than I was smart and picked up Yuniesky Betancourt on three of my fantasy teams.

We all know that people come back to kill us after we axe them, so might as well make virtual I TOLD YOU SO points off of it. For good measure, I also have sprinkled in some Moss and Willingham on some.

Now thinking about it, I wonder how one could do staffing an entire team of ex-Phillies?

Standard Points (Total Bases) League

1B -
2B -
SS -
3B -
2B/SS -
1B/3B -
OF -
OF -
OF -
OF -
OF -
UT -

P -
P -
P -
P -
P -
P -
P -
P -
P -

Twitty: I don't believe so. My understanding is that a SP is only allowed to bat as a Pitcher, & if he did so his team would forfeit the right to use a DH in that game.

If 'Looking Good' (LG) was a stat, Revere would be -28 and among MLB leaders.

He isn't this bad but I do wonder how long they are going to give Revere if he continues to produce at below a .600 OPS.

Jody Mac thinks that Revere is a bigger problem right now than Halladay and is complaining about 2 runs?

Did he miss the 7 HRs the Phils' pitching staff? I would dare to venture that when you staff gives up 7 HRs in a 9-inning game that your team will lose 99% of the time.

The losses hurt more than the wins help ..

Fata: I understand why Halladay's starts are getting monitored so heavily but I think it is way over the top to say he is done off of last night's performance.

MG: You are playing very fast and loose with the confines of that discussion. You know you are.

Nothing more enjoyable than a TTI / MG meta discussion unless it's a cloun post castigating people for hoping that some flawed prospect comes through. :)

Edmundo: I'll say this. I try to be fair on here to people. Not always great at it but I try. And I don't mind healthy disagreement. It is the nature of this place. However, misrepresenting people's arguments and backing away from what you originally said I don't like because it means you aren't trying to engage in debate.

I like MG though so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here on this but he knows that my exact comments were that every team in the majors carries a lot of reliever junk on their 40 man. He said the Phillies carry more than most and then used the Mets as one example and then stopped.

It's pretty hard to believe that there is a bullpen in the majors with 4 relievers collectively as bad as Durbin/Horst/Valdes/Aumont.

I mean, maybe there exists one, but I'd need it pointed out.

TTI is 100% right here. I even remember looking up 40 man rosters and looking for 4/5 garbage pitchers on every team before I realized most had them and gave up.

Fata- what part of the team do you suppose comes closest to league averages in the big cayeories- the offense or the bullpen?

No one wants Roy Halladay to succeed more than I. However, if a great pitcher gets the win without his best stuff, how bad is a pitcher who's this in 3 2/3s of an inning?

9H, 8 ER, 3 HR

Steve Carlton did this in his last meaningful season (1987):

TOT: 6-14, 5.74 ERA, 79 ERA+, 1.651 WHIP
CLE: 5-9, 5.37 ERA, 84 ERA+, 1.596 WHIP
MIN: 1-5, 6.70 ERA, 69 ERA+, 1.791 WHIP

1988 was the year Carlton retired -- too gruesome to transcribe those numbers.

What's my point? I hope Roy Halladay has not reached this point. I hope the Phils do not let him post these declining Carlton numbers in perpetuity.

However, I have a feeling that with the: " long as it takes..." comments ascribed to Doc's figuring it out, we may get close to the "declining Carlton" numbers from Doc before he's shut down. Really, really ugly.

Let's acknowledge that yes Durbin and Valdes are terrible. I would not put Horst and Aumont in their category. Horst I think is somewhere between last year and this year's performances. Aumont has talent and good stuff- no doubt about that. His problem is, and always has been control. If he can ever figure that out- which he may not at this point- he will amount to nothing.

Also, on the bullpen stuff. Say teams carry 12 relief pitchers on their 40 man. That means 384 relief pitchers on the rosters. I would venture of those 12 at least 5 are probably just filler type guys which means there are 160 garbage guys out there out of 384. Does that really sound out of whack to people?

I agree with MG's post about change needed in the bullpen. Bite the bullet and DFA Durbin. He offers nothing at this point and DeFratus offers more upside.

tti: "Some nights in a 162 game season you get your doors kicked in. Happens to every team and tonight was the Phillies night for it to happen."

It happens to the Phillies more than others. The Phillies average .-8 runs less than their opponent - which is second to last in the league(Marlins).

actually here's a good one to show that the Phillies aren't just some normal team that gets beat up once in awhile. They get slaughtered more than anyone in the leauge.

The Phillies have the highest ERA in the entire MLB when they lose: 12.07

Iceman, I think the offense comes closer to league average, but I think they are below league average.

I also understand that it's easier to fix a middle relief throughout the season, as the Phillies actually have some options in the minors, and there are always relievers floating around throughout the season who could provide a slight boost. Also, if the starting pitching does its job most of the time, the middle relief can be marginalized.

The offense, though, can not be marginalized, and cannot be easily upgraded. So, even if the bullpen is worse, I think they both are going to contribute to the Phillies not making the playoffs this year.

eh nevermind, that doesn't even fly with common sense.

the Losing Pitcher of Record has a 12.07 ERA in Phillies games.

Fatalotti - I don't think anyone here disputes the idea that Doc just isn't the same pitcher anymore...we're all just hoping that better pitch selection and a different approach can give us a Doc that is still moderately effective.

And hoping for a moderately effective version of Doc in and of itself means that we all know Doc isn't the same guy anymore and never will be.

TTI - We only stopped at the NL East. Nats/Braves/Fish didn't have 4 relieves as crappy as the Phils were carrying on their 40-man roster.

Good to see Gio get rocked. I've said all along that he, and the Nats, are overrated. Plus, he's not on the juice this year, so we'll see how he does. The national media love the Nats, did you hear Verducci on the Phillies Sat game? "They have no holes." Really? Ok. I see the Nats completely coming back to earth this year.

Meanwhile, how about "First Pitch Swingin'" Revere? He's my new whipping boy since Mini Mart is (temporarily) gone. Some more ground outs on the first or second pitch of his at bats last night, including yet another GIDP. I really think he's playing himself out of a job. I know Rube traded for him and Charlie has to play him (for now), but with this lack of production, I think you're going to get to time when you have to start sitting him. I'm not a big Mayberry fan, but his bat is better, has decent range, and a better arm than Revere. How long until Charlie has to start sitting this guy? He's been horrible.

2 things from the farm system:

1.) Cesar Hernandez last night was 1 for 4 and is now batting .375. He has almost no power but scouting seems to indicate he has a decent glove, good arm, and average to slightly above average speed while hitting for average. At some point they might want to try him at shortstop and see what he can give there and if he has the potential of being a utility infielder or something. He just seems to hit well at every level.

2.) Crashburn Alley kind of sucks now but last week there was a really good piece put up by Eric Longenhagen where he analyzed the game called by Tommy Joseph. There are some obvious flaws to the data as we don't know what pitches were pitcher called versus catcher called and when they were shaking each other off but it is an interesting way to focus on an important aspect of a catcher- calling a game.

Don't worry about Revere, I'm sure Tyson Gillies will be ready soon to bring his .507 ops from AAA to the bigs. What an aweful, aweful, aweful trade.

Just looked, and a .507 ops would actually be an improvement over Revere. Ha!

The Phillies have been blown out (lose by more than 4 runs) 6 times, more than anyone else in the NL.

Utley's HR was 433ft, the longest HR for the team this year.

If you added up the distances of all the balls Revere's hit this year, I'd be surprised if they eclipsed 433 feet.

lorecore: Yes, and that happens over the course of a season. Maybe the phillies are just getting all their blowouts out of the way early

TTI - Longenhagen is the only reason to visit Crashburn anymore. He's actually way too good for that site so I would expect him to move on shortly.

lorecore: Yes, and that happens over the course of a season. Maybe the phillies are just getting all their blowouts out of the way early

Posted by: The Truth Injection | Wednesday, May 01, 2013 at 10:02 AM

This made me laugh.

Fats: Revere has 18 hits, so to get to 433ft, they'd have had to travel an average of 24 feet.

The bullpen stinks and the offense stinks. I don't know why we need to argue about it. On a night when they get bad starting pitching, this team has virtually no chance of winning.

But once again, it was Durbin and Valdes. Your worst relief pitchers are almost by definition the worst players on your roster. If you're relying on them, you're in trouble.

Question for Gtown and Fatalotti: Do you think the Phillies have a quality bullpen?

The reason I ask is I've never seen you gripe about the pen at all (even though 98% of your posts are gripes about something) and when others do, you steer the conversation to the offense.

So, if you just answer that above question with a simple yes or no, it would clarify things.

How encouraged am I allowed to be about this?


That's JMJ's line against RHP so far this year, including 6 walks.

Hope he keeps it going.

I meant to add the phrase "until this thread" to the above question.

Silver linings:

- Remember that Doc had three good starts before stinking up the joint last night. I'm concerned, but let's hold off on the obituary for a bit.

- Delmon!

- A 14-2 loss looks the same in the standings as a 3-2 loss.

Thankfully, I was busy last night and missed the whole debacle.

Fata: I hope you note my tongue was mostly in cheek in that response to lorecore.

The pitch selection issue is overblown, I think.

The Indians have a good lineup and Halladay's plan was to bust them inside with hard stuff.

We don't know if that was a good plan or not because it wasn't executed. His pitches were either way inside and called balls. Or they were right down the middle and called home runs. If he had any command last night, his plan might've worked.

The very top post on Crashburn Alley is kind of funny right now.

Baer posts a thing that he calls the "most depressing chart you'll see." It basically is a hot zone that shows all the pitches for the 7 home runs were right down the pike. Which shocker- pitches left right in the heart of the plate can be hit for home runs.

Then there are picture stills of all 7 home runs and the first commenter says "And yet they appear to all otherwise be headed straight into Ruiz's mitt," as if Ruiz basically told the guys to throw one up there on a tee.

cut: The problem with the Carlton/Halladay comparisons is the big age difference.

Halladay is 36. When Carlton was 36 he finished third in the Cy Young voting and when he was 37 he won it.

I think the Phillies have three very good relievers in Papelbon, Adams, and Bastardo. I think the rest of the Phillies relievers stink (and yes, I thought in the offseason they would be better than this--I was wrong).

The issue is that Paps, Adams and Bastardo have pitched a combined 28.1 IP, while Durbin, Valdes, and Horst have pitched a combined 34.1 IP.

The Phils' worst guys may be worse than other teams, but when you give more innings to the worst 3 relievers than your best 3, your bullpen is not going to be very good.

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