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Tuesday, April 30, 2013

Comments

repost:

Clout: I think it certainly wouldn't hurt the Phillies' playoff chances if they pulled out a win tonight. But, I'm the one who asked the question about the 2nd wildcard to begin with. So, I'm not dogmatic about the 15 loss threshold but mostly because the playoff format changed last year. I'm also a big believer in the idea that something that's never happened only remains that way until it does happen. With a large enough sample size, anything is possible.

Ruf with another bomb? He's heating up...

Where's Bourn?

Indians have a good lineup.

No Swisher either. Huh.

"Young will play right field for this team because he convinced Ruben Amaro and the Phillies' front office that his defensive woes were a result of his discomfort in left field."

I love how this is stated, because I believe it's true. I cannot fathom any other way that RAJ and crew think that this guys has any place even sniffing RF.

The only question now is, how long is RAJ going to allow this farce to go on before correcting it? There's not a shred of evidence that DY will be even passable out there.

Sophist, it's less than intimidating without Bourn, who is injured I believe, and Swisher. I have no idea why Swish isn't playing.

I'm confused by that Indians lineup.

Bourn's on the DL. Hurt a finger.

I'll refrain from "damm, the Phillies are old" comments and jabs in the Game Threads this series as long as Jason Giambi is playing.

*if he gets tomorrow off for a sore back, or whatever, all bets are off.

With a large enough sample size, anything is possible.

Was it Danny Ozark or Frank Lucchesi who told the press that the Phils had a chance even though they had been eliminated?

"The Phillies have gotten very little out of their starting outfield, so even if you're not the biggest Young fan there's no question he'll add depth."

The two worst culprits of our OF being Brown and Revere, neither of whom Young will be replacing, so he probably won't make the OF any better, either way.

Wonder which we'll see first - Revere's first career HR, or D Young drawing a walk?

Indians were batting Santana 6th for most of the year...at least they finally moved him up, he's been tearing cover off the ball.

I have faith that Doc will be able to outsmart a hitter like Reynolds, especially with his heavier reliance on off speed stuff this year. Rest of lineup is pretty weak in general, and even weaker in 2013 so far.

Fata - not unless they start platooning for real:

LHP: LF, Mayberry, D Young
RHP: Brown, Revere, Nix

That would make the OF better.

Phillies -125 tonight. Think I'll steer clear.

Wahhhh, Delmon Young is a wassiss! Wahhh.

"Was it Danny Ozark or Frank Lucchesi who told the press that the Phils had a chance even though they had been eliminated?"

Was Danny Ozark.

Sophist, a steak dinner on me if Charlie ever actually does that.

Jason Giambi must be entering Julio Franco territory for longevity.

wp: If you like the phils, you should be able to find -110/-115.

JSanchez DFA'd by the Pirates (on merit). Query, if a player is suspended for 6 games on Saturday, appeals it, pitches on Monday, gets DFA'd on Tuesday, do they still have a hearing on Friday and, if so, does his suspension start if he's not on a roster anywhere?

Question is whether D. Young stays on the roster after this series. I don't know if he necessiarly does.

MG - I bet he does.

I was kind of hoping Delmon Young would fail at AAA, so we wouldn't have to see him on the roster. But since he's here, I guess I'll be rooting for him to duplicate his 2010 numbers & make RAJ look smart. Such rooting requires me to overlook his anti-semitism but what are you going to do?

I was kind of hoping Delmon Young would fail at AAA, so we wouldn't have to see him on the roster. But since he's here, I guess I'll be rooting for him to duplicate his 2010 numbers & make RAJ look smart. Such rooting requires me to overlook his anti-semitism but what are you going to do?

Posted by: bay_area_phan


This.

Twisting the knife would be DYoung comes up and struggles (offensively) while Ruf keeps up his current hot streak.

Always relevant.

bap, he's no longer an anti-Semite.

He's had counseling. Really. Mel Gibson was the leader of the group sessions.

cyclic: Don't worry about that play - it was in LF, not RF.

Yep, gravity is.....different...in left field.

This is kind of the nightmare scenario. Delmon Young is brought up just as Darin Ruf starts hitting with power in AAA. The only thing worse would have been if Ruf had been cranking since the beginning of the season, but Rube still brought up Young instead.

If Delmon Young hits well enough, all this will be moot. But having a guy who plays 1st base at least average and hits righthanded would have been nice against lefties. Certainly better than having Frandsen at first against lefties, where he is terribly miscast.

I suppose there is a slim chance this works out to the benefit of the Phillies. But if it does, I still think it makes Rube a dope. Just a dope who got a little lucky.

aksmith: That descriptor could apply to about 50% of winning GMs, I would wager.

He'll be better oriented in RF since he's more comfortable there, so he won't need to do a 360 trying to locate and catch the ball.

Geez. He looks like a 7-year old out there.

He's not going to be like the video game and turn somersaults rather than pick the ball up from ground, at least....right?

Rollins SS, M. Young 3B, Utley 2B, Howard 1B, D. Young DH, Brown LF, Ruiz C, Mayberry RF, Revere CF.


Revere finally hitting 9th. Praise the lawd.

Gelb: "Delmon Young is DHing and hitting fifth. Word is he will play right field tomorrow."


....wat?

Revere in the 9-hole. Excellent.

Now, if Charlie would only bat JRoll 6th...

Matt Gelb: "Delmon Young is DHing and hitting fifth. Word is he will play right field tomorrow."

The only thing dumber than tonight's lineup would be putting D. Young in the field when you have a chance to DH him.

Rizzo sounds like RAJ circa 2012 here doesn't he:

"Following a scare Monday night regarding “tightness” in Stephen Strasburg’s forearm, Nationals General Manager Mike Rizzo said Tuesday morning that the ace’s right arm is “structurally perfect” and he is not expected to miss a start"

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/30/mike-rizzo-stephen-strasburgs-arm-is-structurally-perfect/

Not a fan of crashburn, but they do have quite the amusing array of DYoung .gifs up today.

Delmon is one of the few people who I would actually think twice about rooting for, even though they're on my team. Brett Myers was in that category, as well.

Normally, I don't care abuut what sportswriters refer to as "character," as it tends to be either racially/culturally coded, or more accurately reflect who talks to reporters and thus who they like. I certainly don't have an issue rooting for someone who did steroids, for instance.

Yet I do think twice about guys like Delmon and Myers, who committed what I consider to be legitimately morally reprehensible acts (though Myers was probably a level worse than Delmon). Not saying it matters, and not saying people are wrong for rooting for them, just my personal two cents. Not even saying I don't root for them, necessarily--just that I do question it.

We can now officially designate the 2nd spot in the lineup as the "professional hitter" slot, in honor of Polanco and Young.

Structurally perfect? Strasburg hits the DL in 3...2...1...

(I keed)

Delmon Young - how can luv be antisemetic?

You have to sit back and marvel at a manager who bats a guy fifth who did this last year:

.267/.296/.411

And bats a guy 7th who did this last year:

.325/.394/.540

I mean, you have to f8cking marvel at that.

McAllister is a RHP, right? I don't understand this team.

Sophist, you and me both, friend.

Fatalotti: You really do, don't you? I'm surprised he didn't go ahead & bench Chooch, just to make even less sense.

D. Young hitting higher in the lineup (and possibly getting another AB) is just foolish and ditto him playing RF tomorrow when you can DH him.

I am willing to bet it was Cholly's decision to hit him 5th. He has said repeatedly he thinks D. Young is a 'power hitter' even though the numbers don't bare that out.

I would be curious about the start in RF though. Almost wonder if that isn't an Amaro mandate.

Mayberry and DYoung vs a RHP, while Nix is on the bench? Thats even worse than batting Dyoung over Ruiz, which is also ridiculous.

So predictable that Manuel would bat Delmon Young so high, even sight unseen as he is. Couldn't agree more with Corey that Chooch should be hitting 5th tonight.

Mayberry has a career .690 OPS against RHP.
Nix has a career .745 OPS against RHP.


What's not to love?

Honestly, if you can look at this lineup -- & then consider the likelihood of D. Young being asked to play RF in an AL park tomorrow -- w/ out really having to struggle to not bash your own head repeatedly against a concrete wall, you must possess the implacable patience of the Buddha himself.

I would love for a Phlipper or someone of his ilk to defend this lineup. I need a good laugh, because I'm about to cry right now.

Our manager is completely clueless.

Why is Mayberry playing instead of Nix against a righty?

Why is Delmon hitting 5th against a righty instead of Nix being DH?

Amazing.

RH platoon-quality bat coming up from a rehab stint plays DH and hits 5th against RHP. LH bat whose had some good ABs lately and prob. deserves a start rides the bench. Yep, Makes sense.

I take back my first question. I think the right move probably was Mayberry in RF and Nix as DH. You had to have 2 of the 3 of them in the lineup, and Mayberry is the best defensive player. So that would make the most sense.

It's really Delmon over Nix at DH that doesn't make sense.

Count 1 for the people who predicted this team wouldn't use Delmon properly...

If I had my druthers, this would be my lineup:

Rollins, SS
Utley, 2B
Ruiz, C
Howard, DH
Young, 3B
Brown, RF
Mayberry, 1B
Nix, LF
Revere, CF

Screw Delmon Young, he doesn't need to bein the lineup at all. I'll take my chances with Mayberry's nearly comparable bat against RHP and better defense at 1B and better baserunning.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb 3m
Manuel wants Young to play RF before team comes home. He envisions using a regular defensive replacement.

Whether it's...

Delmon Young driving in 3+ runs
Chooch grounding into DPs to end multiple rallies
Mayberry collecting 3+ hits (all off RHP)
Nix hitting a pinch hit HR

...results of tonight's game will not and can not in any way justify what a monumentally stupid lineup this is.

If anything positive comes of this lineup, its that Revere scores about 6-7 runs this series out of the 9 hole and Charlie's brain is unable to recompute within 2 days when we return home, and he keeps him at 9.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb 3m
Manuel wants Young to play RF before team comes home. He envisions using a regular defensive replacement.

Posted by: GBrettfan | Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 04:35 PM

So he wants to run him out there to play defense in a game in which he doesn't need to run him out there play defense, for what, exactly?

Ryne Sandberg may not be the savior, but he can't be this criminally stupid. I look forward to his dethroning Manuel next year.

I never used to buy the Charlie is a dope meme. Yeah, I often questioned his moves, but they worked out often enough that it wasn't a black and white thing.

But this lineup is simply dumb. Even if this lineup eviscerates the Cleveland pitching staff, it is dumb.

I'll say exactly what I said about Rube. If this lineup works, it's just dumb luck. Emphasis on the dumb.

actually i take that back, runs scored isn't production, only driving runs in is.

therefore, I hope revere has 6-7 RBI this series so he sticks.

This lineup is the product of listening to scouts and not looking at numbers.

You all should have realized 20 games ago that there is no platoon and Mayberry will get most of the starts. I repeat there is no platoon and Mayberry will get most of the starts over next. Mayberry has been acceptable and Nix has been more than successful off the bench what else can you ask for?

I'm not sure what is more bothersome. DYoung being shoehorned into the lineup, or Revere returning and ruining my day.

I know 9th is the right place for him, but is there actually a right place at all? Oh, and does anyone think that manager Sandberg will actually split the lefties on a regular basis? I haven't checked out the Cleveland bullpen for lefties, but I'm guessing they have one or two, like most teams, and will negate Utley and Howard when needed.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb 3m
Manuel wants Young to play RF before team comes home. He envisions using a regular defensive replacement.

Posted by: GBrettfan | Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 04:35 PM

I though that was what rehab/minor league conditioning starts were for? Thank God we have a manager that uses regular season games like they're spring training games.

Wasn't the purpose of the rehab starts to get him acclimated to the outfield? No reason to play him in the field until they absolutely have to.

Echo echo echoooooo

By the way, anyone else wanna give a self-righteous speech about how r00b should be taken at his word RE: D. Young? Apparently the perfect place for him to practice his defense is in an AL park, where there's no conceivable reason he should EVER play in the field! The GM is an arrogant ass. The manager is dumber than a sack of hammers. I wouldn't trust these dopes w/ a Happy Meal toy, let alone an MLB franchise. It's fortunate Cleveland has been so terrible, or else I'd fully expect the Phillies to get swept.

Let's see if a six year old could fix this lineup.

Flip flop Utley and MYoung.

Flip flop Chooch and Dyoung.

Flip flop Nix in and DYoung to the bench.

Flip flop Mayberry and Revere in centerfield, then flip Revere to the bench.

It's almost as if it would be easier to just start over and do it right the first time.

Even in the AL park I thought Manuel would find a way to still not hit Revere 9th. He surprised me though. For that I will give him a gold star sticker.

If there was anyone who ever doubted the Philadelphia Phillies' collective preference for veterans over younger players (though they may have more upside) the Young move is further proof against that sentiment. The simple fact that Ruf is starting to rake and the move made to employ a DH favors Delmon Young? I plead anyone to tell me what Young offers that Ruf does not.

Yet, it's the same regime that will be in charge of our "rebuilding." Anyone doubt that Free Agency flyers are going to be the "solution," rather than trading for quality young talent?

I'll tell you what--you can't say the Phillies are racists like they may have been in 1947 (see, e.g., Ben Chapman in "42"). How often do you see a team with 6 African-Americans in the starting lineup like that these days?

Mayberry in CF, with Nix in RF would actually make more sense.

If you're going to try to trot out your most offensive lineup in an AL park, might as well give Revere a couple more nights off.

Steve: The Phillies have progressed. Now the players are the racists.

GTown, lol

I think Delmon Young is a bigot, not a racist. But tomato, tomatoe.

I told you guys before, any lineup decisions and in game moves are only made before consulting a binder containing copies of birth certificates of everyone on the team.

Preacher: How long before Revere sits down because of his quad (again)? Dammit, I wish there was some kind of list upon which the Phillies could place their injured players! Forcing clubs to carry them on the active roster just isn't fair!

I don't want RAJ or Cholly anywhere near a rebuilding effort. It's time to bring in a breath of fresh air much like the Eagles have done. Like Chip Kelly, I don't know if Ryne Sandberg or anyone else will be successful. But the time has long passed to get rid of the 2 boobs who put together and manage this roster.

Did RAJ have a word at which to take him? I felt like the FO was all over the place in re: D. Young.

In spite of which, I believed, like GTown, that D. Young would be given every chance (and then some) to succeed or fail in RF. If he doesn't "produce" with the bat, it will be interesting to see how long is he leash. Or perhaps less interesting and more frustrating.

Perhaps Charlie believes that D. Young will be more comfortable playing RF in an AL park since he's spent his career in the AL....albeit playing LF. Maybe Charlie also thinks D. Young will be more comfortable making his first misplays in an away park where he will not be subjected to the displeasure of Phillies fans.

I'm grasping at straws, and I'm placing an inordinate emphasis on the comfort level of D. Young, too.

What's particularly puzzling is that Charlie already intends to use a defensive replacement for Young - a de facto acknowledgment that fielding is not his forte - yet he's choosing to start him in RF when (as everyone has pointed out) he doesn't have to.

Delmon is going to hit 3 homeruns and drive in 9 rbi's to make you all look foolish tonight. Production!

I will say this lineup and activating Delmon Young livened up the board.

Apparently there are 2 Steve's. I'm the one who doesn't point out the racial make-up of the team.

Phils at -110? Tempting but I pass tonight.

Manuel's tenure is much like Reid's. So much like Reid's. With only one big difference, Charlie won a championship. I'm forever grateful for that.

WP: The primary reason not to put Ruf in there is the roster issues. If the team is already committed to paying Young for his contract (and they are), they might as well see what he's got.

Especially in a fairly early series, against some weak opponents in the Indians and Marlins.

If he stinks it up, gets relegated to the bench, and continues to stink it up in limited opportunities, there's still plenty of time to bring up Ruf (who's only just starting to get his sea legs against AAA pitchers).

GTown, call it my own bias, but even if Revere isn't actually hurt, he fits the "actively hurting this team" bill. For that reason alone, I'd actually rather have JMJ playing CF.

I was lukewarm on the Revere signing to begin with, but at this point, I feel like he needs to play his way into my good graces (as if that matters at all - though I suspect I'm not the only one souring). He's starting to fall into the David Bell/Abe Nunez camp for me...

Young will K 4 times and leave 8 men on. But he will get a 5th at bat in which he will drive in a run. Ruben will speak to reporters after the game and say "See, I told you guys, it's all about production."

WP, I'm starting to fall in line with you on Revere. I went from driving the bus for him to hit leadoff to now cringing every time I see him at the plate. The man hits one hell of a weak groundball though so there's that.

Regarding long tenured coaches - I would loved to see this city with the current fanbase in Connie Mack's time.

"The man hits one hell of a weak groundball though so there's that."

Probably why I keep getting flashbacks of Abe Nunez and So Taguchi...

Preacher: I have disliked the Revere trade from the beginning. However, I don't believe this team is going anywhere w/ or w/out him. As such, might as well give the guy as many games as possible to shake out exactly what he is, & is not, capable of doing. I think we've already got a decent idea, but there's not much more to lose by being sure.

So we can steadfastly continue to mention that Rollins has a better OBP batting leadoff than Revere, yes?

Admittedly, this year the bar is rather low, but that's been the case year-on-year, and over the duration of their careers as well.

@buster: "WP: The primary reason not to put Ruf in there is the roster issues. If the team is already committed to paying Young for his contract (and they are), they might as well see what he's got."

I've been reminded REPEATEDLY that the "value" in Young's contract is that is so damn cheap, and they can cut bait whenever they'd like. I don't dispute that.

What I dispute is that they're willing to sacrifice MLB level performance to "experiment" and "see what they got," as if these games are meaningless. Unless they've already given up on the season, why would they elect to bring up the inferior player, when even they say he might not yet be ready, if it's not simply because he's the veteran.

I know that Ruf still has much to prove, but in my mind, SO DOES DELMON EFFING YOUNG!!! I don't see why this is the no-brainer move, at all.

"Yet I do think twice about guys like Delmon and Myers, who committed what I consider to be legitimately morally reprehensible acts (though Myers was probably a level worse than Delmon). Not saying it matters, and not saying people are wrong for rooting for them, just my personal two cents. Not even saying I don't root for them, necessarily--just that I do question it."


Jack, while I completely agree with your opinion that what they both did was morally reprehensible, I wonder if you are being a little harsh and unforgiving. That is, do you think it's impossible for that person to feel legitimate remorse and for someone to change?

I know people who work in prison ministries, counseling and trying to change the lives of people who have committed far more morally reprehensible acts than Young or Myers. Some do come to regret their actions and change their lives.

Are we to not root for those people, or are we supposed to treat them as you seem to treat Young and Myers?

Now, that's not to say I believe either Myers or Young have legitimate remorse for their dirty deeds (Michael Vick's only regret/remorse is that he got caught, IMO), but rather, I am asking a more generic question.

At what point do we forgive?

WP: The problem is Young's contract doesn't let him sit in the minors to prove it. They made a guaranteed deal, not MiLB, and that's just what they have to live with.

That said, Ruf has quite a bit more to prove than Young. He got red hot in August/September of last year in the AA level, but prior to that had mostly hit for average (and sometimes doubles) against opposition that was about 3-4 years behind him in the development track.

The positional mismatch is also a problem. Young may play bad corner outfield, but it almost can't help but be better than Ruf's corner outfield, because he's just... Well, he's just deplorable. That's understandable, since he's a 1B by trade, but our 1B position is pretty well gummed up for a while, and we're short in the corner outfield.

"I would love for a Phlipper or someone of his ilk to defend this lineup."


Fatti, as an intellectual exercise I tried to come up with something - I really did - but came up with a big, fat zero.

How long before we see this posted...

Production™

...regarding Delmon Young?

When he produces his first error in RF?

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