Phillies

Transactions & Such

Winter leagues

Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Phils, Hamels hammered by star-studded Dominicans | Main | Halladay, 'pen sharp in win over Nationals »

Wednesday, March 06, 2013

Comments

If you listen real closely you can hear the clacking of fingers against keyboards as the phony outrage about Howard playing everyday begins.

Personally- I don't have a problem if the Phillies let him play in the WBC. I don't think they will but there isn't an issue if they do

I don't agree with those upset that Howard has played every day, but why is it "phony outrage"?

It is possible for people to see world differently than you, right TTI?

Why don't they make the All Star break a week long and play the WBC then? It is stupid to do it right before the season.

Howard should stay in camp and workout under the team trainers. His season with the Phillies is much more important than the WBC. Now if he wasn't coming off of an injury, like Rollins, I would say go play for USA.

Anyone know the Phils pitching lineup today?

I wonder if Pap is over his 'illness'.

Fatalotti: I love that you are the one scolding me for criticizing other people's point of view. And thanks for being a condescending douche in the second paragraph.

It is phony outrage to me because regardless of how Howard was being utilizied this spring people would complain. This is a guy that was clearly not himself last season, they need him to be himself this season, and he is playing like 4 or 5 innings a game. It is a complete non-issue but people are trying to make it one. So yes people can have different views and I can from them.

Matt Gelb just tweeted:
Eric Hosmer will replace Mark Teixeira on the United States' roster. Phillies were never contacted about Ryan Howard.

I think Howard should not go as he should be under monitoring as the good Reverend says.

I assume we've all read this bit of happy news, posted on ESPN's frontpage today:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9015864/jonah-keri-why-philadelphia-phillies-need-retool-their-roster

I think its idiotic that Howard plays everyday in ST.

I think it'd be great if he went to the WBC.

So yes people can have different views and I can from them.

But their views are "phony outrage".

I wasn't scalding you for criticizing. I was asking why you felt it necessary to claim that people that had a different point of view from you had "phony outrage".

Seemed unnecessary to me, that's all.

The biggest story in camp might be if Kratz can suck himself out of the default starting catcher role while Ruiz is suspended.

lorecore, if anyone can do it, it's Kratz.

To clarify, Kratz being the 'biggest' story in camp is more of a reflection of how little is really going on than it is of Kratz' poor performance behind the plate.

Reverend: Regarding playing the WBC during the summer, I think Jayson Stark wrote about just that scenario the last time the WBC was played. I'll look for the article to link it, but basically he said that the only sport going on in July is baseball, and they could capture the public better at that time, then in spring training when it's going up against the NBA, NCAA Basketball, NASCAR, and the NHL.

Edmundo: not all criticisms are phony outrage. This one to me is.

"It is phony outrage to me because regardless of how Howard was being utilizied this spring people would complain."

But it would probably be an entirely different set of people doing the complaining. That speaks to the rather obvious point that, no matter what Cholly does, someone's going to disagree. But it doesn't make it hypocritical for people to disagree -- as the term "phony outrage" seems to imply.

That said, I actually agree with TTI that there's an element of phoniness to the outrage. Not phony in the sense of hypocrisy, but phony in the sense that no one on Beerleaguer has the foggiest idea about the particulars of Howard's situation or about the specific risks & benefits of playing him every day. So the outrage is phony in the sense that it's based on a made-up version of the facts, which may or may not be true and which posters assume to know better than the Phillies' medical staff.

I've never read anything of Jonah Keri's that has truly been insightful or ground breaking. He always encapulates the general saber metric viewpoint on an issue in a neat package, but I've never read anything by him and thought, "Wow! That's interesting! Never thought of that before!"

The new Grantland article pretty much fits with that tradition....older roster = they're gonna suck soon and need to trade their players while they have value.

As usual TTI takes his criticism of an alternative viewpoint and blows it way out of proportion.

This wasn't a single person yesterday who expressed 'outrage' nor said Howard should sit frequently. Not a one including myself.

The next few weeks during spring training there is at least an off-day during the week without a game. I just don't see what the point is in playing a guy 16 consecutive days given several factor regarding Howard including his age & injury history. It is just a needless risk.

I said Howard should sit a once this week preferably during a road game.

Heather - His pieces vary. If you don't know much about sabermetrics or don't follow a particular issue or team, his articles can be a useful summary-level type piece.

BAP and TTI agreeing? This storm must be the beginning of the end.

MG: Yeah, "outrage" is a bit of an overstatement. "Criticism" would be a more apt word.

criticism doesn't clack against the keyboard loud enough for TTI's liking.

The only Phils' players to have played in every game/exhibition so far are Brown, Mayberry, and Howard.

The 10,001 comments over the past day or 2 regarding Ryan Howard's spring playing time constitute one of the larger tempests in a teapot I've seen in a while. Most scouting reports I've read grade out Beerleaguer as an 80 in teapot tempests, so that's pretty impressive growth considering it's already an elite level tool.

I swore DOM had 2 days off in a row.

People need to chill about Howard's playing time in ST. If anything, being behind Hosmer in the USA pecking order shows how far Howard has fallen in the eyes of those outside Phillies Nation. But it's a slight that can be rectified in a monster year. Baseball is a game of reps and if Howard can handle it physcially / mentally, the more reps the better. If the coaches could, they'd probably run out every single player every day.

TNA: "if coaches could, they'd run out every single player every day"

Thats the problem.

As a ring leader of the Howard playing time debate on the last thread, I take exception to the "phony outrage" comment. I was never outraged. I simply questioned the logic behind that decision, stated that no one else has played every game and asked for reasoning as to why this was the case.

I don't think that's outrageous at all. And I certainly don't think my reaction is phony.

Baseball is a game of reps and if Howard can handle it physically / mentally, the more reps the better

I made this point yesterday, saying that he'd get more reps in the cage and on the practice field than he would in a game. Therefore, every once in a while, leaving him out of the lineup would allow him to get more reps.

Crazy, right?

I'm done. I swear.

First thing I thought of when looking at the lineup: Strasburg was facing Dom Brown when he blew out his elbow and I doubt they have seen each other since then.

Best tweet I saw regarding the Keri article was this poster:

"@jonahkeri @frankmcawesome And the right move is to break up a 102 win team?"

You can question Amaro's moves last offseason which for the most part didn't pan out but this tweet is 100% dead-on.

It is ridiculously easy in hindsight to say the Phils should have pursued a different course last offseason but what GM breaks up a team coming off a 102-win regular season?

The answer is 'zero' especially one that wants to keep his job and already has a bunch of sunk costs.

AL, I think many Phillies had a similar ugly thought when reading your comment. History repeating etc etc..

I'm happy Howard's not playing in the WBC. Frankly, I'd only want the Phil's to allow rookies/minor leaguers to play. Season is long enough already.

Amaro has made some bad moves including resigning Howard, Pence trade, Lee trade to Mariners, etc but when you come down to it is the drafts and especially the development of players that has really hurt this team.

Amaro has traded away a ton of prospects/young players but there isn't one yet who has made a real impact at the MLB level. Gose might in Toronto and d'Arnaud with the Mets (which would be painful) to see but those are the 2 closest guys. Otherwise he has shipped out a lot of prospects/young players who simply haven't panned out or been flat out busts.

***I swore DOM had 2 days off in a row.

Posted by: lorecore | Wednesday, March 06, 2013 at 11:19 AM
***

He did...it was at the very beginning of ST though so those might have been non-official ST games where he did not play/start.

I thought this was appropriate:

I don't think Delmon's too fond of the press.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
“Are you trying to write a soap opera?” Delmon Young asked reporters, who were seeking details on how his ankle feels.

"I just don't see what the point is in playing a guy 16 consecutive days given several factor regarding Howard including his age & injury history. It is just a needless risk."


MG, I'm not taking sides in the argument, but you missed bap's whole point:

Absent access to Howard's medical records and knowledge of his interaction with the team trainers and medical staff - and the necessary training and knowledge to evaluate the information - you DON"T KNOW what the risk is, or if there even is one.

Why is D. Young pissy about what is a completely legit question? He's one guy I hope doesn't play an inning this year for the Phils.

I love that meme...

rolo - Your right but go look at how almost every other team handles their veteran players especially early in camp.

You won't find them starting everything especially when they play so many consecutive days in a row without a day off.

It just doesn't serve a purpose.

MG, the jury's still out on Singleton/Cosart, and even if they don't pan out, he traded them for pennies on the dollar, given their value at the time, in my opinion.

Also, if you want to see phony outrage on this blog, wait until Manuel doesn't use his closer on the road in a tie ball game in the bottom of the 9th.

I'll show you some cot damn phony outrage.

***“Are you trying to write a soap opera?” Delmon Young asked reporters, who were seeking details on how his ankle feels.***

Good thing none of the reporters were Jewish...

"Why is D. Young pissy about what is a completely legit question?"

I asked Delmon Young that very question and he said he doesn't like being badgered by those damn Jews who control the media.

Best part on D. Young...didn't he just go see a specialist on his ankle yesterday to get cleared for more workouts?

Wouldn't that be a logical follow-up question to ask the player?

"It just doesn't serve a purpose."


MG, yes is does. It gets Howie reps against LIVE pitching, Unless you think batting practice tosses are the same thing.

Delmon Young is a grade a jerkoff and for that reason alone he was an odd fit here. The last true jerkoff this team had was Brett Myers and at least he provided some value in an otherwise thin rotation and stepped up to close in 2007.

NEPP, we all know DYoung has 'tude problems. We shouldn't be surprised.

BTW, NEPP, IS Gelb Jewish? That might explain it...

Good call on the Dom-Strasburg connection AL. I was at the game when that happened.

Best part is the soap opera titles fans are suggesting.

‏@Tyler__Jett "As the ankle turns..."

‏@jrw522 The Fat and Lazy

& my favorite so far:

‏@DatDudeJD The Young and the Tasteless

Good way to change the perception of you by the fans and media. Act like a JO to the media. Especially the Philly media.

Those are awesome titles. I like the Fat and Lazy the best.

rolo - So it really is getting to help Howard that much more to play 7 days a week vs 6 days a week and get 2 ABs? C'mon

The Phillies should just tinker with the scale so he doesn't make weight and they don't have to pay him his dumb bonuses.

At least the Philly sports media is well known for its restraint and lack of vindictiveness when it comes to players that piss them off.

...just ask Steve Carlton.

Myers was a jerkoff and I thought he got treated with largely kid gloves here after the horrendous domestic abuse incident started to fade.

One of the few Phils' player of recent memory I genuinely disliked.

"Also, if you want to see phony outrage on this blog, wait until Manuel doesn't use his closer on the road in a tie ball game in the bottom of the 9th."

I've participated in this a few times and I can definitively say that my outrage was not phony- specifically the 15-13 game in Atlanta.

MG, he was definitely kid glove treated.

I met him at the Meet the Phillies taping prior to 2008 and he couldn't have been more disinterested and arrogant. He was everything I expected him to be. Victorino wasn't warm either.

rolo - So it really is getting to help Howard that much more to play 7 days a week vs 6 days a week and get 2 ABs? C'mon

Posted by: MG | Wednesday, March 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM

To turn that on its head; it's really going to put him at significant risk to play an extra day a week, and get 2 ABs?

MG: you would complain no matter what Charlie did with Howard. It is your schtick. We all see it

Also, lets not forget your counterpoint I yesterday as to what purpose does playing him serve

MG acting like he knows what's better for players on the team than the staff does, despite their access to much more important information that MG doesn't have, is one of the best running gags he does.

Keep it going MG.

Like sands through the hour glass, so are Delmon Young's days as a major league outfielder.

When you have a full 162 game season still on the horizon, Yes I believe the extra innings do pose an eventual risk.

Jason Michaels was sufficiently douche-y to punch out a cop, but wasn't important enough to warrant significant media attention.

DYoung sounds exactly as advertised so far.

Reps isn't just about hitting. It's also about defense. With Ryno, it might be more about getting defensive reps than plate appearances in live-game situations. You just can't simulate live game situations - whether it's mental or physical.

Here's a meme that Ryno has pleaded for at the beginning this ST and will never be heeded by BLers or others:

LEAVE RYNO ALONE! OR ELSE!
http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/soak-zone-stay-away-from-rhino.jpg” title=”Leave Ryno Alone” width=380 />

TTI - Give it a rest. I said I would have liked to see Howard sit 1 this week and 1 last week. That's all.

Yeah I do think Cholly has a history of questionable management of players over the long-term.

Hell, just look at last season when he said Utley needed to rest 1-2/week given circumstances and then wound up starting him almost everyday for the remainder of the season. Played Chooch at a historical pace the first 2 months of the season for a catcher his age, pushed him when he was slightly injured, and he wound up getting hurt quite badly.

trying to post image in comment FAIL. i'll stay away from higher-order commenting because clearly, i'm not cut out for that...

apologies to all BLers.

The preview button is your friend.

I don't think there is a story at all about Erik Kratz.

The Phillies do not have a catcher anywhere that would take his spot. The SSS in spring doesn't change anything.

He is the starting catcher on Opening Day and will be the backup catcher when Chooch returns.

Nothing in spring, barring an injury, will change that.

KAS, weren't they giving Quintero a look?

Kratz has gotten the majority of PT in spring training. As much as Chooch.

Joseph and Quintero are next although I imagine they are just getting a look at Joseph who will start the year again at Reading.

Lerud and Valle have played sparingly although Valle was hurt earlier in camp.

Fatalotti: Quintero is getting a look as the temporary backup C while Chooch is on suspension. He'll be a potential veteran callup if there is an injury.

Not to mention Kratz's one hit in spring so far is infinitely more than Quintero has gotten thus far.

Tommy Joseph has played in as many games as Quintero and had more PAs (and hit significantly better!).

Chooch has played the most followed by Kratz so far.

Kratz, Ruiz and Valle are the only catchers on the 40-man. If they elect to go with anyone else over Kratz, they'll need to be added. Seeing as they're at 40 guys now, it would require an additional move, as well (I don't believe Ruiz's suspension opens up a spot, but I may be wrong).

Though, I'm also in the camp hoping that D Young won't be occupying one of those spots, but I'm not especially optimistic that won't be the case.

Today's game is on MLB.tv. I'll give you some indication on how Halladay looks on the mound and how are players perform vs. Strasberg.

Good sized crowd there today.

Crazy wind today, so even more reason to have Ruf on the bench.

Halladay got the first out on a nice change up that was rolled to first.

I'd be a lot more optimistic about the 2013 season if this were the Nationals' everyday lineup.

Halladay looks like he's tinkering early. A lot of pitches, mostly off speed, outside the zone. No gun at these games, so tough to get a feel on his velocity.

How used to "M Young in the 2-hole" are we supposed to get? Is this growing pains until Cholly realizes he's not Polly?

MG: you said it and your counterpoint was dumb. You know you would be killing Charlie regardless of what he did.

Also- if you don't like being called on things stop saying stupid sh!t.

TNA, let's see if this works:

The natoinals(and every team in baseball) don't feel the need to play their everyday lineup during ST like the Phillies apparently do.

Strasburg might work even faster than Doc.

After the ground ball, a pop up foul that Tommy Joseph made a nice play on and then a line drive to Michael Young. 1-2-3 inning.

Doc looks fine. There's movement on his pitches. He's thrown the fastball and his offspeed stuff.

That looked like a strike to me...

This ump apparently has a plane to catch. Young called out on strikes on a pitch that was clearly low.

Utley strikes out the more traditional way...

The few games I've seen live, Kratz has been terible behind the plate. Passed balls, throwing errors, and unable to catch/throw on a few balls down low.

I don't know why the Phillies would think two twice about looking elsewhere for another option, even if it is a stiff like Quintero.

Strasburg is a like an Aumont that can control his nasty stuff and pitch multiple innings. The velocity is impressive. The movement and control/command make it downright unfair.

KAS- at the knees is low now? It looked to me like it crossed his knees. Maybe I'm wrong.

It was a nice AB either way.

"Strasburg might work even faster than Doc."

It's an optical illusion. The Phillies' hitters make outs so quickly that it looks like the pitcher is working faster than is actually the case.

Iceman: Maybe at the knees after the catcher pulled it up 3 inches. That pitch was low.

You're also assuming umps call a pitch at the knees a strike. I'll believe that when I see it done consistently.

lorecore: We're talking about a backup catcher. What do you really expect? Kratz had an 800 OPS last year and was adequate defensively. What in spring training would really cost him his job?

Quintero doesn't have a hit yet. What has he shown you to suggest he's a better choice?

Doc's changeup looks really good. He's gotten a K and two weak grounders to first with it so far.

Is there a division in baseball that has better change-up pitchers than the NL East? Hamels, Strasburg, Doc, Santana...

Wheeler and T-Mac in midseason form, calling his curve a change-up.

Having a little trouble with his command today, but boy does his stuff look sharp.

The Phillies are going to carry two catchers in April. Before ST, it seemed like a lock that Kratz would be seeing the majority of the catching.

Right now, I dont think its a lock. I could see him splitting time with another catcher if his defense is worse than it was last year...which was poor to start with.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

SHOP CSN


Advertisements


Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG