Phillies vs. Red Sox: Hamels getting ready

In his penultimate start of the spring, Cole Hamels and the Phillies make the long bus trip to Ft. Myers to face the Red Sox under the lights.

You can tell it's getting late into the spring when starting pitchers begin to work the way they would during the regular season. Better yet, if Cole Hamels is going to take the long bus ride from Clearwater to Ft. Myers, it's not going to be to pitch for just an inning or two.

Hamels and the Phillies take on the Red Sox in the second (and final) night game of the spring. After this one, Hamels will have one more spring start before opening day in Atlanta on April 1.

Meanwhile, manager Charlie Manuel put together a different type of lineup for the game against the Red Sox. Check it out:

1.) Ben Revere, cf
2.) Pete Orr, rf
3.) Jimmy Rollins, ss
4.) Michael Young, 3b
5.) Laynce Nix, lf
6.) Carlos Ruiz, c
7.) John Mayberry, 1b
8.) Freddy Galvis, 2b
9.) Cole Hamels, p

Infielders Yuniesky Betancourt and Kevin Frandsen also made the trip along with outfielders Ender Inciarte, Jermaine Mitchell and Darin Ruf.

Don't expect too many of the players who made the trip to Ft. Myers to play much on Friday when the Phillies face the Braves at Bright House Field.

Comments

[GM-Carson]

I wonder if Orr's start in RF means that the Phils might be thinking of keeping him as a super utility guy that can play all over (ala Michael Martinez, but with a better bat).

[Grammar Police]

Not to be that guy, but....
You spelled Penultimate incorrectly.

[rolo]

According to the Salisbury piece linked on the right about "Confident Domonic Brown", Brown pretty much has the RF job locked up.

OK, we know who's on first, but who's in LF?

["Pedro's lucky midget"]

I rather have Orr on the team. Not to say he is super talented but he seems to hustle.

[clout]

"Pedro's lucky midget": You, sir, are an idiot.

[clout]

rolo: Nixberry.

[The Hook]

Delmon young getting closer........

["Pedro's lucky midget"]

Why is that Clout?

[MG]

Usually Clout is less blunt in his sarcasm.

Orr's been a AAAA player for a while now. If you need to bring up for a few weeks, you hope he doesn't kill you offensively and that he doesn't have to start vs LHP.

[Elephant in the Room]

Is this game on tv tonight?

[Elephant in the Room]

I like Orr, but I like him better in AAA waited to be called up for two weeks, a month here or there.

[CS]

I like Orr and wonder what him making the roster would mean...

[PhxPhilly]

It was discussed in a prior thread, but with D.Young out I think the Phillies need a legitimate lefty pinch hitter. Nearly every game the pitcher will get pinch hit for and most of the time it will be a righty on the mound. Since Nix should get most of the starts in LF (until D.Young, shutters) I could see an aging vet (Giambi was mentioned) being picked up. If that is the case the other bench guy needs to be a super utility guy which Orr fits nicely.
Quintero, Mayberry, Frandsen, Orr, Old LH PH. I guess Frandsen can also play OF so Phillies could keep Galvis instead of Orr.

In a month with Ruiz and D.Young (shutters) starting, the bench is likely
Kratz, Mayberry, Nix, Frandsen, Galvis (since M.Young's defense will be proven atrocious by then).

[bittel]

Not to also be that guy, PhxPhilly, but I believe you mean D.Young (shudders)

And do we have to keep Nix? What is Ricky Ledee doing these days?

[Elephant in the Room]

I miss Ricky Ledee.

[PhxPhilly]

Off topic, back to Utley contract since I did not see it mentioned in the thread when I skimmed though it.
By offerring arbitration to Utley I think it makes him MUCH less desirable to other teams, kinda like Kyle Loshe this offseason.

The fact that Utley and Cano are a huge step above what most other teams have at 2B may outweigh the huge risk to signing Utley but I doubt it.
What team is going give up a 1st Round pick and sign Utley at 3/$36M to be an average DH with diminishing power and speed? If he can field 2B at a GG level his bat is excellent, but as a DH?

Unless he takes a team friendly deal, I'd be willing to offer him arbitration (~$14M for one year seems pretty good) each year to avoid the long term committment. Now if he is willing to sign a Rollins type deal 2/$22M with vested option that would be great. Otherwise arbitrate him then match whatever deal he gets if you don't want to lose him.

[bullit]

freddy triples /2 out. but isn't it charming to see cole bat? i want the dh, and i want it now.

[Corn]

Orr in RF with Nix in LF...makes sense

[lorecore]

"i want the dh"

But yet you are ok with Freddy Galvis hitting? Why shouldn't he just play the field since SS is more of a defensive position?

[bay_area_phan]

How did Pete Orr manage to acquire such a fan club? The guy can't hit, has no power, and is terrible defensively no matter where you put him. The only attribute he brings to the table is speed. He's a better option than Mini-Mart but that's not saying much.

[lorecore]

all hail scrappy players.

[bullit]

lorecore: i thought that argument was already settled by the AL. 40 years ago.

[The Hook]

Orr and nix won't see too much time. Dom Ben and Delmon will be outfield in 3 weeks. If the DH was in NL. I could see and nice platoon with nix and ruf.

[bay_area_phan]

Unfortunately, I do think Orr is going to make the opening day roster. Cholly & RAJ get a hard-on for versatile utility players and Orr has the added bonus of being familiar. And, unless Ruf picks it up over the last 10 days of spring training, there's really no viable option for the 5th OF spot. Since this is like the 3rd or 4th time they've played Orr in the OF in the last week or so, I gather they're giving him a test-run for that last OF spot. Kind of like I'm giving this post a test-run to see if "hard-on" makes it through the profanity filter.

[Elephant in the Room]

Yea it made it through. What about Inciarte as the 5th outfielder?

[Will Schweitzer]

I truly love how, on BL, if you do anything but mock a guy who isn't a perennial All-Star, the collective response is that a bunch of posters jump on your ass with different versions of "you're dumb; he sucks".

Unless your Clout and the player in question is Kyle Kendrick, in which case he is defended with the passion of a man responding to someone who object at his wedding.

[bullit]

cole ends 3rd and 4th innings on 3 straight wiff balls.

[bay_area_phan]

"What about Inciarte as the 5th outfielder?"

Blah. He has no power at all, has never played above high Single A, and had to repeat A ball twice. He posted decent numbers at high A, but it was in a league where every park is like Coors Field. I stand underwhelmed.

[Elephant in the Room]

Point noted. So if it comes down to it Orr or Inciarte?

[lorecore]

bap: Who would make your 5 OF spots?

[bay_area_phan]

lore: I'd probably make the leap of faith and pick Ruf. The only possible caveat is that I'd like to see a little more of Mitchell, who I find at least a little intriguing because of his high walk totals.

Inciarte doesn't intrigue me, except as a project to send to Reading and see if he can build on last year. And Orr certainly doesn't intrigue me.

[GM-Carson]

I'm still hoping Ruf gets the 5th outfield spot and is able to show he belongs.

If given the choice of Orr and Incarte, I'll choose Jermaine Mitchell.

Seriously though, Incarte hasn't impressed. He's good defensively, but he's obviously overmatched otherwise. Orr would be the better option, but that's not really saying much.

[bullit]

i'm also in ruf's camp. he didn't hit all those dingers last year without having very good hand/eye coordination.

[Mike G]

Not to be a wet blanket, but have you guys seen Ruf play the outfield this spring? He need to be in AAA learning how to play the outfield.

[MG]

Ruf should get the last spot. I wouldn't even mind Mitchell. If the Phils add Orr and already have Frandsen and a utility infielder on the roster, I will be really perplexed.

Comes down do they like Inciarte enough to put him on the Opening Day roster and be prepared to leave him there for a while.

[bullit]

cole averaged just over 6 pitches/inning. mostly strikes.

[Fatalotti]

I just found out that you can watch the game for free on MLB.com.

[Fatalotti]

Stutes as completely forgotten how to hit the strike zone.

[Fatalotti]

Stutes has walked back to back guys with 2 outs, and might be on his 9th straight ball.

[MG]

Victorino has really struggled this spring and I bet he is going to really regret signing with the Red Sox.

When the local media\fans get on Red Sox player, it's brutal especially if it is a newcomer. My bet is Vic is booed early and often this year in Fenway.

[lorecore]

bap: With Mayberry already being able to backup CF, I don't see Inciarte's skillset as useful to the Phillies at all.

I think I would go Ruf as well. I would prefer he go to AAA and learn to play LF even in the tiniest capacity, but his bat off the bench adds more to this team than anything else the other candidates can offer.

Mike G: I dont disagree with you, but to me the other alternatives are basically empty.

[Corn]

lol wut? @ that play

[bullit]

is vic going to be the new aaron rowand?

[lorecore]

MG: "I bet he is going to really regret signing with the Red Sox."

You mean, the Red Sox will really regret signing him?

[corn]

@Fata...MLB doesnt work, still have to sign up for it

[Fatalotti]

corn, I'm not signed up, and I've watched the last 2+ innings.

[Fatalotti]

Victorino with a nice swing and Pete Orr reminding us why he's not a RF.

[Corn]

Listen as Vic hits a triple

[MG]

Stutes has overwhelmed me the few times I have seen him. Yet another Phils' relief prospect who throws on the low 90s yet has mediocre command and no MLB offspeed pitch. Guys like Stutes are pretty common and still thought Schwimmer had a bit more upside.

I may have crapped on the Durbin signing because of the alternatives available at the time but he's better than Stutes or a stiff like Rosenberg.

[Corn]

Guess this means Orr will be platooning in the OF with Brown

[Fatalotti]

Also Vic kind of looks like he's lost a step, despite the triple.

[Fatalotti]

Alright, I have no friggin idea who this guy is pitching for the Phillies.

Nesseth?

[bay_area_phan]

Stutes just sealed his demotion with that performance. There's nothing more infuriating than a pitcher who completely melts down after getting the first 2 batters out.

[GBrettfan]

Dom Brown's feeling good:

“In my mind I don’t feel like a pitcher can have enough stuff to get me out,” Brown said. “Even if they’re throwing 100 mph, I feel I can turn it around.”

http://www.csnphilly.com/baseball-philadelphia-phillies/confident-domonic-brown-seizes-his-opportunity

[Fatalotti]

Nesseth took up residence in the top of the zone, and didn't move out. allowing Pedroia to smoke a double to RF.

Who is this guy?

[MG]

Amaro said a week ago he thought the Phils had some nice relievers and the Phils were going to have to make some tough choices on who makes the Opening Day roster.

I want to know if Amaro was just giving a BS answer to the question or he truly believes that.

One thing I am really glad us that Amaro didn't listen to the people who advocated not spending any money really this offseason on veteran FA relievers because the Phils had so many internal options. Same argument that they have made for nearly 2 years now and I still think they are delusional or just don't watch the middle relievers the Phils have,

[bay_area_phan]

Fat: He's a soon-to-be 25-year old who pitched at A ball last year, where he hardly struck anyone out and issued a whole bunch of walks.

[Corn]

Fata...the game came up but the register now and choose your package window stayed in the middle of the screen. MLB never worked for me unless i use a proxy

[Mike G]

M Nesseth, wasn't he in the Monkees?

[The Truth Injection]

Amaro said something and someone on BL took him at face value.

Shocking, I know.

[Corn]

balkin bob...do they bother to review all his balks at all? I mean its pretty bad when you get that nickname

[danomyte]

I got a two minute preview on the MLB web site and Brad Lidge was pitching...is that for real?

[Iceman]

MG, for once, took the words out of my mouth. Yet another reminder after that Stutes performance that there are actually people that exist who didn't want a single arm added to the bullpen, which would've given Stutes a guaranteed spot (and probably an important one).

He's terrible.

[MG]

TTI - why put such a positive spin on it? Amaro stopped doing that season a bit and this offseason I did think he was a bit more frank.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: I think it is very likely he was just praising young guys on the team. I also think it is very possible they like guys like Aumont and DeFratus and are debating who stays. It is also possible they view Stutes as an outside chance to make the roster.

I just think a GM and manager should never be taken so literally when they say things. They aren't going to outright trash guys and they are part carnival barker for their franchise.

[NEPP]

The local Boston radio and fans have been all over Victorino since the day he signed. He's a dead man walking unless he puts up a 1.000 OPS and 20 SB in April.

[bay_area_phan]

That looks like a broken wrist. Out 3 months.

[corn]

Ah just like last season. Forgot to score and bullpen blows it

[bay_area_phan]

Another good reason to keep Ruf: Mayberry just blows.

[The Truth Injection]

Fearless prediction:

Hamels wins the NL Cy Young Award this year.

[Corn]

Mayberry is the only person that can play CF besides Revere

[PhxPhilly]

Its Spring Training, Stutes will turn it on once the real season starts...
Just kidding.
I most definitely wanted a stud 8th inning guy for the bullpen. Hopefully Adams is it.
First for insurance against Papelbon.
Second because of the way Manuel manages.
Third since Bastardo should really be a 7th/lefty guy until he proves otherwise, not the known setup guy.
Fourth because Aumont could be great, he may never know where his pitches are going.
Fifth who else from last year inspired any confidence. I wish the Phillies unproven relievers were at least inconsistent (as most posters tend to argue) instead of consistently bad.

I did figure that DeFratus would quickly move into a 7th inning role as one of the most consistent relievers. Since he is already sent down I guess I was wrong.

[MG]

Of course I don't expect Amaro to trash players in public or even criticize them. That is just poor executive skills.

Amaro said when they traded Schwimmer that it was in part because of the excess amount of relievers the Phils had. They may have a lot of relievers but not a lot of decent ones. Savery, Rosenberg, Diekman, and Robles are still on the 40-man roster. That's alot of crappy relievers.

[MG]

Did see the Phils added Ethan Martin recently too joining Cloyd and Pettibone. No Cook or Lopez and no Morgan either.

[bay_area_phan]

Corn: Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that Mayberry shouldn't be on the roster. He should. But I don't really want to see him getting a lot of starts in LF.

[bullit]

can anyone confirm that cole threw 38 or 39 pitches over 6 innings? i don't think gameday added the last pitch for a double play. that's machine-like efficiency. i agree with prof i. he seems on a mission.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: Do me a favor. Go through every team's 40 man roster and see how many crappy relievers they are carrying. I would venture a guess the Phillies are not alone.

[NEPP]

It'd be great if they could just hypnotize Mayberry to think every month was September.

[Mike G]

So, BAP you prefer to see Ruf get a lot of starts in LF?

[The Truth Injection]

bullit: CBS Game Tracker has Hamels at 77 pitches tonight.

[MG]

TTI - that's not the point and you know it. Yeah every roster is going to have a few weak pitchers but the Phils have alot of crappy/mediocre relievers on their 40-man roster. I would include Stutes in that mix and that is 5 of the 13 relievers on the 40-man roster.

If Amaro said he liked the bullpen alot more heading into the season this year instead of last spring, he certainly would get no argument from me. It is much better off largely because everyone is healthy.

[bullit]

HA! thank's TTI. i never should have gone by Gameday. Doh!

[The Truth Injection]

MG: No you are just a dolt who gets off on sphincter tightening over the bullpen. Yes the Phillies have crappy relievers, but so does every single team on their 40 man roster.

Understand something, when you say: " They may have a lot of relievers but not a lot of decent ones. Savery, Rosenberg, Diekman, and Robles are still on the 40-man roster. That's alot of crappy relievers." you are framing the discussion as the Phillies have a lot of crappy relievers. Sure they do, no one argues that. I am telling you though- analyze what other teams have. There is a ton of garbage relievers on 40 man rosters. Rosters are littered with them. I think you are afraid to do what I asked because you know what you will find. You are trying to say the Phillies have an overabundance of crappy relievers compared to other teams. I am telling you that is false.

[MG]

I look tomorrow at the NL East teams but yeah I bet they don't have as many weak relievers on their 40-man rosters.

[bay_area_phan]

"So, BAP you prefer to see Ruf get a lot of starts in LF?"

Yep.

[Mike G]

You have a lot more faith in him than I do then. I hope you are right and I am wrong.

[The Truth Injection]

MG: I would bet the Braves don't. They scout pitchers well and always have. But think about what you are saying. If a team carries 13 relievers like the Phillies- you are saying they are over 9 deep in the bullpen. You can't honestly believe that is a majority of teams in MLB.

[MG]

TTI - 9 deep no but I so bet they are better than what the Phils have at end of their bullpen on the 40-man chart and the Phils are 8 deep right now.

Stutes has struggled this spring and it is over a year now since he has shown anything. Savery sucks and so do Robles and Rosenberg. Diekman isn't a bad pitcher if he developed even a modicum of fastball command.

[Iceman]

MG is right about the young relievers the Phils have not being good enough to carry the bullpen, but he continues to be way off on the dead weight that every single 40-man roster carries around.

What is it with people thinking the Phillies are the only team to carry around crappy players on the 40-man? Almost every roster in baseball has the same amount dead weight in the bullpen. It's why they aren't on the 25-man roster: they either suck or they aren't ready for MLB competition yet.

[Bubba]

From Larry Schenk's Phillies Insider
"This Date
March 21, 2004–Veterans Stadium is imploded in 62 seconds. Very emotional moment for fans and Phillies employees to see the place crumble. Dust from the implosion drifted east over Citizens Bank Park creating an eerie scene."

Still get nostalgic about Connie Mack , which was left abandonded to decay, get set on fire, and eventually torn down.
But the Vet , not so much. The playing field was so hard , and the place so huge and impersonal.

[Bonehead]

Yeah, but it was OUR dump.

[Bubba]

Very true, bonehead.

[Dragon]

Goodbye Mr. Stutes.

[denny b.]

Keep Ruf around until Del Young is ready.

Ruf is probably only going to be used as a PH anyway for the first few weeks. Let him take some late-inning swings. He might win a ballgame with a late HR one day. Inciarte won't do that.

Ruf can go back to LV when Young is ready and get his 4 AB's a night for them and get used to playing LF everyday. Then when Brown or Young almost certainly go down to injury at some point, Ruf can come up and be a little more confident as an all-around player.

Ruf can hit. Those quick hands and quick bat are the real deal. He'll help this team this year.

[The Truth Injection]

TTI - 9 deep no but I so bet they are better than what the Phils have at end of their bullpen on the 40-man chart and the Phils are 8 deep right now.

___________________________________________

So then you agree with me....you might wanna just declare BL Bankruptcy here before you embarrass yourself further.

[MG]

No I don't and I looked at the Nats and Braves rosters Braves and Nats aren't carrying 13 relievers and both don't have more than 2 relievers on their 40-man roster who are on par with the like of Robles and Savery. You could argue that the Braves don't have anyone that crappy.

So my point stand that the Phils are carrying a bunch of crummy relievers yet on their 40-man roster and it isn't common that teams carry 5 relievers of such weak quality. I would bet most rosters it is 2-3 and that bet few rosters would carry a Robles or Rosenberg period. Speaks to the quality of the Phils Minor League System.

[lorecore]

I would love a Delmon Young/Darin Ruf "Field Off".

[lorecore]

as a side competition obviously, not in an actual game.

[J.R. King]

Regarding Ruf v. Inciarte/Mitchell/Orr:

How many innings do we expect the 5th outfielder to play in the field? How many pinch hit appearances do we expect him to have?

Since my guesses are "not many" and "quite a few," I think the Darin Ruf is in the best position to help the big league club.

I can understand counter argument that Ruf's defense may improve playing every day in Allentown. But personally I'd rather have his bat on the bench than an all-glove 5th outfielder.

[Iceman]

Just as MG says the Nats don't have any poor relievers on their 40-man, they go and sign JC Romero.