Over at CSNPhilly.com, Jim Salisbury posits that Yuniesky Betancourt has a chance of making the Phillies over a fifth outfielder such as Darin Ruf or Ender Inciarte.
"Conventional wisdom would suggest the Phils go with two extra infielders and two extra outfielders," Salisbury writes.
"Phillies officials like the way Betancourt, hitting .360 (9 for 25) has played in camp. They would like to retain him as insurance for their aging infield. But Betancourt, who has been a regular shortstop for three teams, can opt out of his contract on March 24 if he’s not added to the active roster. Given the way Betancourt has played this spring, he’d probably land a big-league job if he opted out of his contract."
The only legitimate reason for keeping Betancourt would be to prevent him from opting out of his deal, as Aaron Cook can do as well. That would be the justification, infield depth, because Betancourt's not going to be the ideal pinch-hitter, defensive replacement, pinch-runner ... nothing. The guy has a .275 OBP since 2009 and has only slugged over .400 once.
It would create a pretty ugly bench. Humberto Quintero, Betancourt, Freddy Galvis, Kevin Frandsen and the other side of the John Mayberry/Lanyce Nix platoon. Zero pinch-hitting power.
God forbid Aaron Cook or Yuniesky Betancourt should opt out of their contracts & leave us without their services.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 04:56 PM
WE NEED AARON COOK
Posted by: dlhunter | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 04:57 PM
Carry this stiff over an extra reliever or Ruf? Ugh.
Posted by: MG | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:01 PM
"So their exhibition performances through March 11 DO have meaning."
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
Posted by: clout | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:02 PM
Corey: There's little chance, in my mind, that the Phils retain 3 infielders. Having just one backup OF doesn't seem realistic.
If Betancourt makes the team, Galvis heads to AAA.
Posted by: Kendrick Appreciation Society | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:02 PM
They've got Galvis and Frandsen. WTF do they need another infielder for?
Posted by: Cutter | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:06 PM
kas: I said the same thing the other day and I really could see it happening for the simple reason that, if Ruf continues to stink it up and Inciarte doesn't make the grade, the Phillies may conclude that they just don't have any 5th outfielder worth keeping. So they could bide their time with 3 infielders until season-savior Delmon Young gets off the DL.
You'll know it's a very real possibility if you see Frandsen or Betancourt getting starts in the OF over the next week or two.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:09 PM
And this is exactly why you don't pay attention to ST stats when making a decision on your roster.
You end up with Yuni Betancourt on your team.
Posted by: Jack | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:09 PM
bay_area_phan: Phils would just bring Mini Mart back if they didn't think they had another 5th OF option.
Posted by: Kendrick Appreciation Society | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:13 PM
Did somebody say versatility?
Posted by: Michael Martinez | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:16 PM
Would having Betancourt on the team prevent both Ruf and Inciarte from making the team? If Ruf does not turn it on soon he's going to have to play in the minors anyway. Inciarte wouldn't be bad as a defensive bench player. I also think Betancourt wouldn't be bad on the bench as long as Galvis stays up in the majors also. But one of them would be sent down or released depending on who is actually hitting when Delmon Young comes in. But I think Delmon Young's role if he has one at all is more dependent on how Ruf starts playing.
Posted by: AlexRosie | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:19 PM
Highly doubt the Phils decide to carry 6 positional players on their bench though this year. Just a matter if they carry a 5th OF or Betancourt.
My money is on Ruf or Enciarte.
Posted by: MG | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:24 PM
Keeping a crappy player just to avoid the risk of losing that crappy player is a very Phillies thing to do.
Posted by: J. Weitzel | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:25 PM
KAS: I think the Phillies have finally reached their tipping point with Mini-Mart. If they harbored even the slightest thought that he could make the opening day roster, he'd still be here.
If it were my decision, I'd just keep Ruf -- spring training numbers be damned. But if Ruf keeps stinking it up & gets sent to AAA, then I could easily see the Phillies concluding that, in the short-term, they have more use for Betancourt's bat (such as it is is) off the bench than for a 5th outfielder who will never start and who can't hit at all. Putting aside the fact that Betancourt is awful, I'd say that line of logic wouldn't be entirely unreasonable.
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:26 PM
Quintero, Frandsen and Nix are guaranteed bench players to start the season (or Mayberry if Nix gets the start, same difference).
That leaves two roster spots from among Betancourt, Galvis, Ruf an Inciarte.
I think Galvis definitely should make the team and Betancourt definitely should not.
If Ruf showed any competency in the field, I'd want him for the last spot, but he just looks terrible out there. My concern is that Inciarte offers nothing at the plate to warrant the final spot, so I'd defer to Ruf.
That last OF who makes the roster gets bumped upon Young's return anyway.
Posted by: Kendrick Appreciation Society | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:28 PM
bay_area_phan: I have a feeling Ruf's performance at the plate means a lot less to the Phillies roster evaluators than his complete cluelessness in the field.
His bat offers power off the bench, which this team needs, but do you carry someone you'd never want in the field?
I suppose that's the Jim Thome/Matt Stairs role, so perhaps they do.
Posted by: Kendrick Appreciation Society | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:30 PM
QUESTION on Betancourt:
Can the Phillies just dump a guy like Savery from the 40-man roster and put Betancourt on it by March 24th... and then still dump him before the start of the season?
Posted by: Kendrick Appreciation Society | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:32 PM
The only way it makes sense (and I use that phrase loosely) to have Betancourt on the team is if Galvis goes to AAA to get everyday playing time. Unless Rube disagrees with Manuel in that Galvis' time would be better served in the big leagues, Betancourt seems silly to hold on to given that Frandsen is on an MLB deal.
Posted by: Sil Campusano | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:33 PM
J. Weitzel: "Keeping a crappy player just to avoid the risk of losing that crappy player is a very Phillies thing to do."
This is both the pithiest and most cynical post of the last week. Who is this new poster?
Posted by: bay_area_phan | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:34 PM
His bat offers power off the bench, which this team needs, but do you carry someone you'd never want in the field?
---------------------------------------------------------
If he's just gonna sit on the bench, wouldn't he be better served going to AAA and maybe learning to at least be adequate in the outfield?
Posted by: Mike G | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:35 PM
Needing to keep Yuni Betancourt's bat on the roster kind of encapsulates why people are skeptical of the 2013 Phillies.
Posted by: Jack | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:38 PM
Jack: That we're spending so much time talking about the 25th man and not a bunch of huge gaping holes in the lineup sounds like a big improvement to me!
Posted by: Kendrick Appreciation Society | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 05:40 PM
You just can't help yourself, can you, Jack? I suppose that we just completely ignore Ruf's bad spring both at bat and in the field, because, after all, it's just spring training and stats mean nothing.
Again, @ black, say hello to white.
"...people are skeptical." Don't you really mean, "I am skeptical"?
Posted by: mainerob | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 06:03 PM
Let Beatancourt go. Let him. is he really likely to give you much better than Pete Orr, other than the fact he can play SS?
Also, other teams have the same issues - that is, they'll have to fish or cut bait with some of their players. Someone else is likely to shake loose ala Ben Francisco.
Posted by: rolo | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 06:14 PM
I can't believe we are talking about this.
Posted by: The Hook | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 06:56 PM
I'm ready to come out of retirement. Send Galvis and Betancourt packing.
Posted by: Steve Jeltz | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 07:03 PM
If Betancourt is the answer, you're asking the wrong question.
Posted by: Fatalotti | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 07:07 PM
I'm with you, Hook.
Posted by: limoguy | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 07:39 PM
I can't believe we're talking about the Phillies on a Phillies blog either.
Posted by: Cyclic | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 07:41 PM
I would try and hold on to the Ender kid...Nuff said..
Posted by: "Pedro's lucky midget" | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 08:10 PM
Doesn't the tantalizing prospect of Ruf being for realz bat-wise compel you to put him in AAA, where he can attempt to learn left field? Having him do and probably fail at one the harder things to do in sports -- pinch hit -- seems like a waste of a lottery ticket.
Posted by: Klaus | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 08:38 PM
Can they hold on to Yuni long enough to trade him to the Cards for organizational filler? Would they have to wait until March 24th?
Posted by: Ralph Furcal | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 08:45 PM
If we are bringing Yuni up north why not just go back to mini mart. At least he can play the outfield. Would rather see Pete Orr than Yuni if another AAAA infielder is the direction we are going.
Posted by: docjoe | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 08:57 PM
Ruf should be in AAA playing LF every day.
Galvis should be the utility IF.
Betancourt should be on another team.
Posted by: Chris in VT | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 09:05 PM
Make it happen.
Posted by: Meyer | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 09:14 PM
Plenty of other philles things to talk about then that slop bent. Bullpen battles, starters, bench etc...pretty much anything other then him.
Posted by: The Hook | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 09:25 PM
Get the feeling that this is inevitable. They brought Yuni in for a reason (though no one here seems to get it) and he hasn't played himself out of a job yet, unfortunately. They will absolutely use the reasoning of not wanting to dump him to keep him on the team. It's time, if you aren't already, to actively root against him at the plate and in the field.
It's worth noting, though, that the last time it seemed inevitable that such a universally hated player (not named Mini Mart) would make the roster, it was Luis Castillo, and they dumped him.
I think Klaus makes a really good point about Ruf.
Posted by: Iceman | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 09:28 PM
"Jack: That we're spending so much time talking about the 25th man and not a bunch of huge gaping holes in the lineup sounds like a big improvement to me!" - KAS
Last time I saw the 25th man comment like this was... same time last year. How did that work out?
Posted by: Mini Mart | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 10:02 PM
I secretly hope that Sandberg starts lining Betancourt's glove with extra oil. Maybe even some butter so that the smell tempts D. Young to eat to much and miss his weigh-in limits.
Posted by: MG | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 10:06 PM
If the rationale behind keeping Betancourt over Ruf/Inciarte is as a hedge against an aging infield, doesn't that also make the argument for retaining Ruf over Betancourt all the more forceful? As your configuration of Frandsen/Galvis gives you a guy who can play a below-average-to-passable 2B/3B and...Freddie Galvis, who can probably play any defensive position well if asked to, but whose natural position is SS.
So you've got replacements for your 2B/SS/3B covered. You know what I'm not seeing? A replacement for Ryan Howard. What's to be done if Howard goes the way of Curtis Granderson, or drops that bloody pipe on his foot again? For all of Ruf's defensive struggles in LF, prior to this hastily initiated experiment to see if a line-up spot could be found for him, he was a 1B who from what I've heard was at the very worst passable defensively. To say nothing of the virtues for a partner with whom to spell Howard.
But I suppose it really all depends on what you think of Ruf's chances are to ever stick in LF. If you think his bat is real and that he can get up to the league minimum of competency -- somewhere between Pat Burrell and Raul Ibanez -- then he should probably be down in AAA, as Klaus suggested. If you think that ship's sailed, then there really isn't a point to shipping him down to AAA; keep him as a bench bat, DH for interleague games, and tool to rest Howard or maximize the team's output against tough lefties.
Posted by: Juums | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 10:24 PM
I will worry about Betancourt being on the roster when they actually put him on the roster.
Posted by: The Truth Injection | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 10:38 PM
Remember folks this is the same team that actually had mini mart on the roster for 2 seasons and played him
Posted by: Corn | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 10:46 PM
Mayberry will be the backup for Howard . Then they would probably call up Ruf if need be. Utley can probably slid over there in a emergency sitauation.
Posted by: "Pedro's lucky midget" | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 11:05 PM
If Betancourt or Frandsen starts making appearances in the outfield, then it's time to start worrying that they'll keep Betancourt along with Frandsen and Galvis.
If they think Ruf has any chance of being a starting LF, he has to play every day in LF, which means he should be spending April in Lehigh Valley.
I suspect our 25th man isn't in the Phillies' organization yet. Casper Wells (Seattle), Fernando Martinez (Houston), and Jose Tabata (Pittsburgh) are all out of options and on the bubble with their respective teams.
Posted by: ColonelTom | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 11:45 PM
Geez, folks on here sometimes like to chime in and let everyone know how baseball-smart they are.
The Betancourt and DYoung discussions are the two latest examples. As players, neither are anything great, but come on.
Betancourt: He is a legitimate MLB backup/utility infielder. He was brought in as insurance against the uncertainty of a young, unproven, possibly unready Galvis. As a bonus, he's looked pretty decent this Spring. But, double-bonus, Galvis looks like he can also handle the job. So Betancourt probably won't be needed. But it wouldn't have been a disaster.
DYoung: Coming into the Spring, our Phis had a thin, unproven, questionable outfield. DYoung represents cheap insurance, and a 'floor' of production. If the Rufs and Browns come through, he still represents a decent RH bench bat. He, indeed, in the end, may not work out. But it wasn't a disastrous acquisition.
Posted by: Bonehead | Monday, March 11, 2013 at 11:55 PM
Bonehead, Betancourt is horrible. I mean eye-bleedingly bad. He's put up horrendous defensive numbers the last few years at SS and 2B. He posted a .256 OBP last year - no, that's not his batting average. He can't run at all (30 SB, 30 CS career; 0 SB in 2012). Other than a bit of power when he accidentally runs his bat into a pitch, there's absolutely nothing worthwhile there.
If he could at least play a passable SS, you could see some justification for keeping him as the 25th man. He can't and there isn't.
Young's bat might be borderline useful in the AL as a platoon DH. In the NL, even if he hits, he's going to do so much harm in the field that he'll be a net negative. He's going to make Phils fans miss Raul Ibanez's glove.
You're right that neither guy's likely to single-handedly sink the franchise this year. Both Betancourt and Young are less important for their own inadequacies than for showing the front office's incompetence in roster construction and identifying useful spare parts.
Posted by: ColonelTom | Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 12:16 AM
Bonehead, from 2011-2012, you want to know where Young and Betancourt rank in terms of fWAR?
5th (Yuni) and 6th (Young) from the BOTTOM.
These guys both legitimately have a chance to be the WORST player in baseball this year, if given extended playing time. And if they are one hamstring injury to J-Roll or one Darin Ruf bad spring away from extended playing time, your team is in a world of trouble.
Posted by: Fatalotti | Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 12:30 AM
I will say this, though. The 2nd worst player from 2011-2012 was Greg Dobbs. The 4th worst was Ty Wigginton.
The Phils are moving up folks!!
Posted by: Fatalotti | Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 12:32 AM
". Both Betancourt and Young are less important for their own inadequacies than for showing the front office's incompetence in roster construction and identifying useful spare parts."
This. Exactly this.
Posted by: rolo | Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 01:02 AM
Ruf not in the lineup today.
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