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Saturday, February 23, 2013



Feeling a loss today

Apropos a previous thread's discussion of Murphy, Gelb, Zolecki, etc., Gelb deserves kudos for subtly inserting intelligence into his most recent piece:

"Last May, Manuel bemoaned the lack of a "vocal leader" on his team. The manager said Aaron Rowand was the only player during his tenure who fit that label.

"With Rowand on the roster, the Phillies were 174-150 (.537) and did not win a postseason game. The Phillies were 465-345 (.574) after Rowand departed and won two pennants."


Surprised his editors let it pass.

A lineup for the ages, that.

Good catch, Klaus. I'd forgotten Manuel said that.

Is singleton's suspension the same as Chooch's, where he can play ST games? He's not listed as playing today. I think Cosart pitches today as well.

Hey Beerleaguers,

I'm planning a family trip to Clearwater in March to see a couple games and was wondering if anyone had hotel recommendations. We're probably dealing with a max of $200 per night, so I know that eliminates the really nice places... but we just want to avoid getting ripped off!

Thanks in advance :)

things to look for: How Utley/Howard look in terms of body language, DOM/Ruf's defensive plays.

things to ignore: everything yuniesky does

Cholly says something that is kind of foolish which is contradictory to what stats say, has trouble articulating his rationale for a decusion, or becoming quite standoffish and obstinate when even he knows he made a terrible decision? Par for the course and that is just his personality/managerial style good and bad.

Nobody on a losing team has ever said, "Well, we lost, but we had great clubhouse chemistry and real leadership in the clubhouse."

Nobody on a winning teams says, "We're all a bunch of me-firsters, and I wouldn't pee on any of those jag offs if they were on fire."

Charlie should feel comfortable that the clubhouse will have a leader in the dugout; the man who will likely be taking his job in 2013.

Pap has got to be the first person I've ever heard of in baseball to say that Jim Thome has no qualities of leadership.

Marlon Byrd served his 50 game ped suspension while being an unsigned FA last year. That's ridiculous.

Rowand may have been the best vocal leader the Phils have had under Cholly. Just shows that over 162 games that talent and health are vastly more important in baseball.

The only major Anerican sports I thought where leadership matters at the pro level are hockey and football.

Glad it's back really want to see young guys. Just starting 7 (and OF) stay healthy. And get at bats. Down fall is TBag back ughhhh

Ruf goes yabo today.

Thank the dear sweet Lord. Fake baseball is here.

Young up to two chances already in the first inning. That's great news- only one to go!

First inning, first spring training game, first Michael Young error. I love baseball.

Iceman: and he already booted one

lorecore: I was surprised he handled the first one.

Revere is the ideal lead-off guy. I'm convinced.

Yeah.... real live baseball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was more textbook than anything we saw last year from this team.

Iceman, Revere's speed...

Leadoff man: Beats out infield single. Steals second.
2-hitter: Gets the runner over.
3-hitter: Hit to bring the runner home.

Now what, cleanup hitter hits a home run?

Beerleaguer batting 1.000 so far. 2 chances for the 3b in the first, an myoung error, revere taking a strike 2, then slapping an inf hit - all well discussed topics.

rolo- yeah. The truth is that if he bumped his walk rate up, he WOULD be an ideal lead off guy. He still could turn into one. He created that run on his own.

But for now, assuming Manuel actually does the right thing and bats him 8th, he's a great guy you want leading off an inning when you need a run at the bottom of the order. If he plays 150+ games, he'll steal 50 bases this year.

Glad the neg posters already going.

Everyone's fav Dom brown got a little swag

That's just a small example of what Yuni can do.

yuniiii !!

Whcih be worse...

the Mets OF or the Astros OF?

Whcih be worse...

the Mets OF or the Astros OF?

Posted by: rolo | Saturday, February 23, 2013 at 01:41 PM

Probably the Mets. I just don't think Bay and Bonilla have anything left in the tank.

Look at Doc signing those autographs there, displaying real leadership!

Sarge really talking up Yuni. Good defensive player (career -8.2 UZR/150, -21 TZ at SS) and that he has a good eye (career 3.3 BB%).

Good to hear your voice again, Sarge.

Did you see this? The Yankees have now officially been named the Evil Empire by a court. As befits that epithet, even the ruling was a win for the Yankees.

Rosenberg still throws hard with little command and no off speed stuff worth a damn.

I didn't like the Durbin signing given some other alternatives but if it means guys like Rosenberg and Savery don't pitch for the MLB club it was by default a good move.

Having a leader or so called leader can go either way. Freak the stats and all that garbage. It boils down to this. Having someone been a leader can either light a fire under your ass or take you off your game. It depends who and how this person is supposedly leading and it depends on how the individual reacts to it.

Fat - I took an inning and switched to the radio. Just left the game on the tablet with no audio.

Fata- to be fair, Wheels said exactly the same thing fawning over his defense.

Starting to get worried that if he keeps hitting, he's going to make the roster. I'm actually rooting against him when he's at the plate.

DOM single was on a fastball in on his hands - good sign.

3 errors already? Ugh. Defense is a much bigger issue for this team even than their offense.

And I put a bit more credence into what Wheeler says because he can be very insightful at times. Started to appreciate him more once Harry passed. He can be an asset to the broadcast. Sarge just babbles.

He does echo the company line more times than not, though. And if he's already trumpeting the "Betancourt is a plus defender" line in the first inning of the first game of ST, it makes me worried that that's the conventional wisdom of the front office/coaching staff.

The thing with Yuni is that he was a highly touted defensive player at one point in his career. So I have no doubt that if he gets to a ball, he can make a "flashy" play.

But the thing about Yuni is that he just doesn't get to many balls any more.

I missed the Revere error, but the team isn't going to have to worry about his defense.

Glad we're going to start fretting about the defense when the team has been playing for a little over a week, though. I agree it's a concern, but it's the first freaking game of spring training.

Iceman, there is a direct correlation between errors committed in the first official Grapefruit League game and championships won.

Look it up.

Betancourt sucks. If this team is serious about winning, Galvis should be the utility middle infielder who is a late innings defensive sub and starts vs LHP.

It should be a complete no-brainer but I have a strong feeling that Betancourt makes the team with a good spring. Amaro has shown a vet poor ability to make the right call on who should get the last roster spots with the one clear exception being Pierre last year.

Defensively this is going to be a bad team and if JRoll is out\Betancourt in at SS it is the worst defensive team in the NL.

Fata- I just did. It turns out that the ball Ruf overran in the 4th inning cost the team two regular season wins.

Get ready for another reason hovering at or below .500.

MG, I don't know if it'll be the worst, but it'll be very bad if Jimmy's not at SS.

If Galvis were the utility SS, though, it might actually get better.

Spring training does give a chance though to see how several players look who are real question marks including Howard, M. Young, Brown, and Ruf. Also allows them to see how Revere looks in Cf. Assuming Revere is going to be a very good full-time defensive player is a big assumption without much data to support it.

howard in mid season form

Cosart mowing 'em down.

It's great to be back in the game, even on a grey day, it's nice to be hearing the game on the car radio and realizing there is some Phillies baseball to be played almost every day, for the next (hopefully ) eight months.

Had to chuckle though when the first play I heard was Revere's error.

And is it just me, or did anyone else's stomach do a greasy pork chop flip flop when the broadcasters announced the entrance to the game of "Ivar whatever, this year's Rule 5 pick"?

Horst had a real quick inning. One guy below the radar who I really want to see this spring and if his slider has that same nasty bite.

TMac's laugh is so maniacal. I actually feared for the safety of my life and the empire.

looks like another season with those wb mason pedophile commercials...i hate them-- they are so creepy

Thank God the Astros moved to the AL. This is brutal.

that trade for pence looks better everyday

the haul that Houston got for pence - would have been enough to get justin upton



MG- Revere has 126 starts (over 1100 innings) in CF in the MLB, more than any other OF position. In three years he has a UZR of 7.3 and a UZR/150 of 9.2. Stats say over that time period that he has great-to-excellent range in center. Every scouting report imaginable says that he's a great-to-excellent defensive CF.

What else do you need to know?

Iceman, MG is engaging in his normal, negative confirmation bias based on one play in ST.

What else is new?

Ice, wait until GTown and jack show up and start commenting on...

the significance of the very first ST game. They'll probably lump in yesterdays' intrasquad game as well.

Iceman - Yeah his UZR was very good in '11. In '10 and '12, it wasn't in limited time. If you look at other saber numbers including Total Zone and Runs Saved it paints a picture of a more mediocre guy in CF and very good in Rf.

Even in '11, Revere only started 88 games in CF. no certainty on how revere will hold up and perform at a very high level defensively in CF over 140-145 GS.

Jim Salisbury ‏@JSalisburyCSN
Michael Schwimer was listed as scheduled to pitch in this game but doesn't look like he will. I've heard his name in trade buzz.

Or, he's already been traded.

Matt Gelb ‏@magelb
Phillies have made a roster move with Michael Schwimer. Believe it’s a trade.

The issue is whether or not Revere will be an elite defender in CF. much of his value to this team will be determined by that and contrary to what Iceman said above there is very little data on how Revere will perform defensively as a full time starter in CF.

He should be at least average to above average but the question is he going to a clear upgrade over Vic defensively and be one of the best 4 or 5 defensive CFs in the game this year.

I do think he is going to be upgrade over Vic defensively largely because of Vic slipping a bit range wise. Just don't have a good sense or idea of how good Revere will be defensively.

Mitchell dark horse lots of buzz quietly

"The issue is whether or not Revere will be an elite defender in CF..."

MG, usually you're reasonable (though you do need to edit and spellcheck your posts), but on this one you're way off base.

There's no "issue" with how good Revere is in CF. There just isn't. Give it a rest.

(And this is coming from someone who hated giving up Worley for him.)

MG, unless you want to judge Revere's entire 2013 season of defense on one play in ST, no?

Fitting that Mini Mart made an error. Crummy game with plenty of shades of last year with a bullpen with guys who have command issues and defensive lapses.

Oh well. Just spring and more concerned with the health status although the defense thus spring is something that bears watching especially among guys who are going to make the roster.

MG- I'm not getting into this with you. There's 1100 MLB innings of data to look at, plus dozens of scouting reports from his minor-league days (where he has played over 300 games in CF) that leaves no real ambiguity on the matter. I'm sure no matter how he looks like year, you'll be saying he's only slightly above average because of his arm, or because he got hurt, or because he runs weird routes (which is what you said for years about Vic downplaying his defense).

If your issue is that as a full-time guy he's going to get hurt more or wear down (at 24 years old), that's a different issue altogether.

rolo - yes there is because so much of revere's value especially to this defensively challenged team. Basically whether is a 1.5-2.0 WAR player or closer to a 3.0 WAR player this year.

@philliesnation: @mschwimer believed to be dealt in a trade to Toronto.

Heading up north, eh?

MG, his defense is NOT and issue. Period.

Vic did run shaky routes to the ball and was able to get away with playing so shallow because of that sprinter's speed he had. Not only could hr accelerating quickly but he put on a burst at the end of a play to come up with the catch.

I didn't think Vic was as good as his rep either especially the last year or so. He was always a solid CF (top 10 or so) but I thought his arm had weakened and he had lost a little range.

Schwimer for 1B Art Charles.

See mlbtr

How is it not? Revere has a rag arm and his entire defensive value is based on getting to balls and turning then into outs. If that is something where most of his value is tied up in because his offensive game is so one dimensional, Revere has to be damn good to really stand out. That's all.

Wow, they must be pissed at Schwimer, because Charels MiL numbers look like nothing.

MG, so you're basing your concern on ONE MiL play. Wow.

Should say " ST play."

Did I say it was one play that I am concerned? Absolutely not. You and Iceman have this really annoying tendency to twist what someone says when it might be perceived as negative about the team

I said I thought Revere was going to be above average but there is a real question of just how good his defense will be over an entire year in CF and if his range will be truly elite thus year.

It will be a hard thing to judge though because of the last of Field Fx system being installed at all parks yet and the limitations of the current defensive sabermetric measurements.

Trading away Schwimer for essentially nothing is foolish especially given the lack of RHP relief depth this organization has right now.

2 guys they have lost already (Cruz, Schwimer) in the last 2 weeks. Guess they feel pretty good about Stutes.

Schwimer never learned one of the important lessons of the Godfather - never take sides against the family.

In the glory days, this would've been an instant BL header:

Blue Jays acquired RHP Michael Schwimer from the Phillies for 1B Art Charles.

For those of you wondering about Charles, I've never heard of him and cannot find him on any prospect list.

He was a 20th round draft pick and has never played higher than low A ball, posting a career slash line of .239/.358/.482. He's 22 and about 2 levels below where he should be.

He looks like organizational filler.

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