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Thursday, February 21, 2013


If it was before the Michael Young trade, the obvious answer is that they were looking at Jed Lowrie for 3B.

NEPP- really good point, and probably correct. Totally forgot about him.

This is a NON-STORY.

It makes ZERO sense to trade Brown for Singleton, not when the Phils are trying to win in 2013.

Lowrie? Maybe.

I suspect Houston asked about Brown and the conversation lasted about 30 seconds.

Here's another example of a potential trade rumor:

November 2012....

LAD GM Ned Colletti: "Ruben, ho ya doin'?"

RAJ: "Great, Ned, what's up?"

Colletti: "Well, you know we're looking for pitching, and you guys have it. Are you considering a rebuild and trading ony one of your starting pitchers?"

RAJ: "Haven't considered it, Ned. Why? Who would you be interested in?"

Colletti: "We like Cliff Lee, and we think we have a package of prospects and players we can put together for you, and we can take on his salary."

RAJ: "Ned, we appreciate the interest, but we're not trading Cliff. He wants to be here and we think we can make a run at the Braves and Nats, and we need him to do it."

Colletti: "Anyone else you'd consider?"

RAJ: "No, Ned, we want the depth."

Colletti: "Alright, Rube, let me know if you change your mind."


tweet tweet tweet

"Phils and Dodgers discussed Cliff Lee"


Great point NEPP. Brown for Lowrie would have been an interesting proposal. Lowrie is a switch-hitter and can also play short. He accomplished more at the plate last year than Brown has in his career. Lowrie's already 28, though.

NEPP and Iceman, 1) the call was probably instigated by Houston, as they eventually moved Lowrie to Oakland, and 2) Lowrie has a .250/.326/.417 career slash line, and is 3 years older than Brown.

How would trading Brown for Lowrie really help the Phillies?

I would bet that it was during the Lopez trade discussions and Rube tried to kill two birds with one stone with a comment along the lines of "What would it take for you to add Lowrie into this deal?"

Much the same when he tried to get Willingham in the Revere deal.

No big deal. Hell, Brown for Lowrie wouldn't have been a terrible trade...if it was along with Lopez and it meant we'd have money to sign a corner OF.

"He accomplished more at the plate last year than Brown has in his career."

Corey, would you make a trade based on that sample size?

One of the problems with the internet and all the social media available is that people like Heyman feel compelled to use it, sometimes just to get their own name out there and to satisfy the following sychophants.

No, I wouldn't make the trade period. But Lowrie DID accomplish more last season than Brown has in his career. Which is worth mentioning.

Maybe worth mentioning, but then why not mention his 2011 season as well, when he put up a .685 OPS?

"bap, I agree with your post, but still require an explanation as to why the phenomenon [KK's good record against Atl] occurs."

The most probable explanation is the same one which explains why Michael Martinez has a .734 career OPS with RISP: plain, old-fashioned random chance. But, to the extent (if any) that his career record against Atlanta reflects some sort of genuine mastery of particular hitters, it's pretty meaningless as a predictor of future performance since very few of those particular hitters are in Atlanta's lineup anymore.

Atlanta has turned over more than one-third of its everyday lineup since last year alone. And, as recently as 2010, their lineup contained exactly 2 players who will be in their 2013 lineup. KK's record against Atlanta between 2007 & 2010: 5-1, 2.62 ERA. His record against Atlanta over the last 2 years: 2-0, 3.37.

I think the vultures are circling over Brown. Do you guys still want him on your 40 man?

Of course I want him and I want him as the starter in RF this year. Explaining why he might have been talked about by Houston in a potential trade doesnt change that.

Justin Upton has a 1.611 OPS vs KK for his career.

Granted, its in all of 12 PA. 4 for 9 with 2 HRs.

Considering that Lowrie is under team control for 3 more years, has a career OPS which would be right about league average for a 3rd baseman, and can play three positions which are all far more difficult to fill than a corner OF spot, a Dom for Lowrie trade would hardly have been outlandish.

Lowrie is a FA in 2015 so it'd be 2 years of team control.

Still, Peacock and Carter are probably the equivalent of Dom Brown if not a better deal.

I would have hated a Brown-Lowrie trade for the simple fact that Lowrie is about as big an injury risk as there is in MLB.

Plus it would have left the Phils with even less options at the corner OF spot.

A deal that would have included Lowrie & Lopez without Brown would have been very interesting. If Lopez has a great year and stays healthy this year, it is yet another black mark on Dr Ciccoti and the medical staff who have made their share of mistakes the past few seasons.

Give Ciccotti credit, he'll likely never reach the immortality that was the Dolphins medical staff that passed on Drew Brees in favor of Daunte Culpepper due to "injury concerns".

The fact that the Phils and Astros had an agreed in principal trade earlier this offseason implies to me that plenty of names were thrown around before it actually was agreed upon. The difference between DOM's projections and actual performance so far likely invite many opposing GM's to gage what the Phillies opinion of him in terms of value.

Iceman: While i wont argue much about who starts whats game in the first series of the year - are you telling me that in a must win game in ATL, you would start KK over Doc?

1. I hate the idea of trading low on Dom Brown. If we really were going to trade him, I wish we had at the height of his value. At this point, we have to see what he's got. Everyone agrees the talent was there so let's see if it can translate to production.

2. I'm in no way shocked that Brown's name came up with the Astros or any other team we talked with this last off season. A deal that involved both Brown and Lowrie would not have been out of the question.

lorecore: no, I wouldn't. And you're right in intimating that the argument doesn't matter much. They both have to pitch.

But it isn't 'who would you rather start?' as much as who would you rather have Kyle Kendrick face? One option is to start against the Royals, who could potentially stack five lefties in their lineup. The other is the Braves, who will have at most three lefties in their lineup in a stadium where Kendrick has pitched to a sub-3 ERA in his career.

I'd rather have Kendrick face the Braves. It's the more favorable circumstance for him. And I'm sure those of us either going to the game or ditching work to watch the game at home would rather see Halladay in the home opener instead of Kendrick (though that point obviously has no bearing on the outcome of the game). Seems like a win-win to me. But again, starting Doc is never a bad option.

rolo, great transcript of the Dodger's talks regarding a Cliff Lee deal.

As for a Dom Brown trade to Houston, since I work in Houston, I want to see the Astros get better and I don't see how acquiring Dom Brown does anything positive for them.

As for whether to start Kendrick or Halladay in Atlanta, I would rather Charlie focus on, say, learning that it's ok to use Papelbon outside of a 1-3 run lead in the ninth inning.

Once we get the basics of managing strategy down, then maybe we can move on to the miniscule advantage potentially gained by jiggering around your rotation in the first week of the season.

Jack: Pretty sure I remember that happening more than once in the 2012 season.

Pretty sure I remember pretty much every time having a very negative outcome.

Beerleaguer is the only place left in the universe where people still think Dom Brown is going to be a great player some day.

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