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Friday, February 22, 2013


Who committed a error in first play?

Sounds good.

"Are spring training and regular season records correlated?"

I don't think they necessarily are, for a whole host of reasons. The other team may be using spring training to work on stuff or to take a long look at certain players who may ultimately not make the team or whatever. So, to chalk up a bunch of W's in the Grapefruit League may or may not be particularly meaningful or correlate to how successful they are when the games count.

Glad to see a new post without the trolls.

From Mike Schmidt:

On new third baseman Michael Young. “Golly, I was talking to (Phillies president) David Montgomery about him 10 minutes ago. What a lot of people don’t realize and I haven’t heard it, Michael Young could retire tomorrow and he would be a strong candidate for the Hall of Fame. He’s probably two Michael Young years away from being a first ballot Hall of Famer. I don’t know if anybody has thought about that. I don’t know what his career hitting numbers are, but he’s a little like Derek Jeter, is he not? He’s that kind of player and he’s had that kind of career. Obviously it’s not playing in New York, but if he played in New York, imagine what people would be saying about Michael Young’s career? Somebody would have mentioned the Hall of Fame a long time ago.”

Is there anyone on this board that would agree with this assessment?

Young has a career 104 wRC+, a career 29 fWAR, a career line of .301/.347/.444, has never been hailed as a good defender. I just don't see where Schmidt is coming from here.

As far as his Jeter comparison, Jeter has a career 122 wRC+, a career 77.6 fWAR, a career line of .313/.382/.448, though hasn't been a good defender, either.

Jeter is in a completely different class than Michael Young, who shouldn't even make the Hall of Very Good, let alone the Hall of Fame.

Hate to trot out an old cliche, but winning begets winning. Better to get into a winning mindset early than late.

Also, reading more from Schmidt, and he's talking about Ruf and Brown being in competition for the left field spot, as if the RF spot is already taken.

Just convinces me even more that Delmon Young has been handed the RF job whenever he returns to whatever he calls "healthy".

Pap throwing his manager and his teammates under the bus to the media for failing to provide leadership? Yeah, that was a smart idea.

What a dumbass.

I don't think that Young's a Hall of Famer either, but I also highly doubt that very many of the voters are considering wRC+ and fWAR on their ballots.

Nope Will, the consider much more reliable measures of a player's performance, like Gold Gloves, MVPs and championships.

Michael Young is not a HOFer.

Fatalotti: I think Schmidt expects Michael Young to get votes from his All Star appearances and basically being the face of the Ranger's organization. I am not fully convinced that can wave him into the Hall.

If Brown and Ruf earn spots and both play well I cannot see the Manuel hand the starting job to Delmon Young right off the DL and most likely some rehab games.

In case anyone was curious as to why MJS doesnt coach, maybe these comments are a good indicator.

Fatalotti: That's right. I'm not saying that the sportswriters have a more valid or reliable approach of player evaluation, but it is what it is, and it's doubtful that this will dramatically change in our lifetimes.

And if you think the sportswriters will be slow to adopt change, the veterans committee is likely to move more slowly.

TTI said in the last thread that Pap is only getting ripped for this comment because he's otherwise seen as a douche (or a 'wanker').

I fully cop to that. There's nothing this guy could do to have me give him the benefit of the doubt. He was one of my least favorite players before we signed him and hasn't done anything since then to convince me that he's not a douche. At best, his behavior is very bizarre. At worst he is a moron with a huge ego that acts like a complete ass on and off the field. So when I hear him whine about how there was no leadership on a team full of guys that are class acts and, more importantly, have won big games for this team for years, yeah it's going to p*ss me off more than if, say, an actual leader on the team said it.

That being said, if he wants to go 48 for 48 in saves this year and 5 for 5 in the playoffs, I'll buy the d-bag's jersey and wear it around proudly.

Funny thing is, back when Schmidt was posting 13 seasons of 80+ walks, and 13 seasons of 30+ homers, he always used to say that he would trade all the homeruns for a .300 batting average. Fortunately for the Phillies, that trade never happened. But his comments do lend some perspective about why he thinks Michael Young is a Hall of Fame caliber player.

His admiration of Pete Rose may have been the key to that wish. Then Rose reciprocates with wishing to have Schmidt's body. Ah, to have a Rose/Schmidt cloned infield.

In fact, I believe that Pete Rose and Mike Schmidt - 2 pretty good baseball players - wished they had each other's talents. This story has never been told. Go figure.

Fatal: MVP and championships are more important than your wRC+

I wonder how long it will take for Doc, Cliff, Cole , Chase , Jroll and Chooch to conduct a Leadership Seminar worthy of Mr. Papelbon's high standards.

From his second set of comments today , I think he may have already gone through Remedial Media Relations.

I hope Dubee has him scheduled for "Throw the Damn Ball Already" sometime this spring.

Young has had a very good career. He was a batting title contender with decent enough power for the better part of a decade. That's nothing to laugh at. He also did it while playing SS for much of his career. He has never been a great defender but he has had a strong career thus far.
Michael Jack is exaggerating a bit but he has a point that had Young done this all in NY he would be considered a much different player by many. Also, Schmidt works for the Phillies. Young plays for the Phillies. Do you expect or think it would do any good for Schmidt to downplay Young's career? He isn't commenting on a blog so there's no bonus for being right.
Does that mean that Young is still a good player? No. Does that mean that he wasn't pretty bad last season? No. Could he rebound? Sure.

Re: Pap
He's an idiot. Complete moron. The only redeeming part of his little leadership talk was that he blamed himself too. The Phillies have been a team that didn't need rah-rah leadership for the better part of the last decade. They've gone to work and won. Nobody said anything was lacking and they gained the reputation as the best and most professional clubhouse in baseball. They had a down year and this clown decides to blame everyone.

I saw on MLB Trades& Rumors that Thome is still looking to be a MLB PH or DH somewhere.

Anybody see anything on Moyer officially retiring or catching on somewhere?

Part of me is sad to see older players trying to hang on like that, and the other part admires their determination to keep going.

Yes gobay, because the only way to NOT downplay someone's career is to make the ridiculous claim that they are a Hall of Famer.

Look, Young's had a nice career. But there's a reason I posted his 104 wRC+ earlier. That means, for his career, he's been about a league average hitter, and league average hitters only get thought about for the Hall if they had exemplary gloves, which has not even been close to the case for him.

Nice career, nice player, but the notion that he's a Hall of Famer is flat out ridiculous.

Fatti, methinks you're overreacting.

Schmidt threw the guy a bone by ssaying something nice.

That's all.

I find it interesting. Everyone is lambasting Papelbon (metaphorically, of course), yet the core of the team agrees with him. My opinion? He made a remark that was misinterpreted and probably nothing like what the original message he was trying to convey.

But it is worth noting that nobody in the Phillies clubhouse disagreed with Papelbon's assessment Friday.

"I agree," Jimmy Rollins said. "I'd say we didn't have the identity last year we had in previous years. And [identity and leadership] are basically one in the same. It's nothing to take offense to. He didn't say anything about this year. He was talking about last year. He didn't say leadership is. Leadership was. ... Me and Pap were actually at the golf course [Thursday] talking about that. He brought up the feel of the team this year compared to last year. The difference and how much better it is this year. It's nothing to take offense to. The bond was broken. Now we're back together. The glue is back together. You can have a lead singer, but without a man playing the guitar and drums, it's a different band."

Courtesy of

To me, the whole thing is a non-issue. Just a story designed to take up space.

Greg: Jimmy's interview is an example of what being a leader means. He's deflecting controversy and doing what he can to make this a non-issue as quickly as possible.

Jimmy has had moments that make me want to choke him and moments where I'd kiss him, but when you add it all up, he is a class act and the leader of this team. Now, if only he'd hit lower in the lineup.

Interesting Mets fact:

Their two highest paid OF this season are Jason Bay and Bobby Bonilla.

@Will, that's hilarious, and telling, of course.

Schmidt is right (if you use old-fashioned stats). 162-game averages:

.301 Avg, 16 HR, 87 RBI

.313 Avg, 16 HR, 79 RBI

Young has the edge in "production"!

Of course, Young has had a shorter career, so he probably won't reach 3,000 hits. Hence Schmidt's caveat about needing a few more "Michael Young" seasons (he's at 2,230 hits, and he's averaged about 190/year).

Aaron Boone said it best last night on Baseball Tonight in regards to Papelbon's comments on the team: 'Completely irrelevant.'

It is painful to watch Papelbon try to string together coherent sentences verbally. He's the living embodiment of Nuke LaLoosh.

^Including his "well he ain't seen mine yet" attitude with regards to the fastball. Hopefully he throws a few more splits this year instead of trying to blow everybody away with fastballs all the time.

rolo, me overreact?


Halladay basically said there was no leadership on the team either. What a wanker! Jimmy's a wanker too! The sheer hatred of Papelbon here on this issue is silly!

Also, Fatalotti- I hope you see how funny it is you take Schmidt to task for something he said and point out a bunch of numbers to show he doesn't know what he is talking about- then in the next post you take him at his word on Ruf and Brown.

TTI, I don't see how the statements have anything to do with one another.

One is his evaluation of a player, and the other is more confirmatory evidence that the team plans on giving the RF job to Young. I took both statements at his word in both statements.

Also, Papelbon was a wanker well before these recent comments. Also, you claim that Halladay "basically" said it, but never admit that he actually said it. That's because Halladay has a little brains behind his words. Also, Halladay is one of the leaders on every team he's been apart of. His words have far more gravity then Papelbon's.

But keep inexplicably defending what Papelbon said. Don't really know why it's got you up in arms so much.

Fatalotti: I'm not really defending what Papelbon said. Just said that he sai more than what you are quoting. My guess is you never read his entire quote. He called himself out and took blame for the leadership thing. Also, Halladay clearly said they lost presence without guys like Raul, Jayson, and Oswalt. That is saying the same thing. Rollins agreed with Papelbon, but I see no fake indignation on your part.

Also- your stuff on Schmidt's comments is still hilarious. He doesn't know what he is talking about until e does so it can fit your argument. I highly doubt Manuel has discussed with Schmidt his plans for right field.

"It is painful to watch Papelbon try to string together coherent sentences verbally. He's the living embodiment of Nuke LaLoosh."

MG, you win the thread!

TTI, I did read the Papelbon quotes. He did call himself out, but he could have done that without saying the words "I didn't see any leadership on the team last year". That's a lot different than saying the team "lacked presence". And if you don't understand why Halladay gets a lot more leeway in saying things like this, then I don't know what to tell you. Halladay has a history of being an unquestioned leader (both by example and vocally), while Papelbon's history is mired in the muck. At the end of the day, MG is right. The whole thing is a non-issue. let it die. Some people don't like Papelbon. Let them embrace their hate.

On Schmidt, I thought his comment about Young being a HoF player was ridiculous, and I already thought the team was planning on handing the RF job to Young once he returned, with Schmidt's comments about Ruf and Brown both competing for the LF job simply fitting what I already thought was pretty well established.

Are we done here, or are you really itching for a fight this morning?

While there's certainly things to admire about Young's career (.301 lifetime BA, 7x over .300 BA, 6 times 200+ hits, 7-time all star) I just don't know if he's a Hall of Famer. Young would need to average 154 hits per year for the next five years (playing through his age 40 season) to reach 3,000 - usually a stepping stone and almost guaranteeing a place in the Hall...though not necessarily on the first ballot, eh Mr. Biggio?

Back to Young, not impossible but not a given to reach 3,000 hits. If he gets there Young will receive strong consideration for the Hall and most likely go in. Finishing his career with 2,800+ hits would get Young enough votes every year to hang in there, but would surely fall short of the 75% needed for induction. It all boils down to that one stat at the end of the day for hits and the magical 3,000 threshold. The rest of Young's career numbers are good, not great, and definitely not enough to get Young in the Hall. `

Whether Young is a Hall of Famer or not will be settled in the coming years. In the here and now of 2013 I hope Young does bounce back and have a Michael Young year. That would help the Phils offense tremendously.

How seriously do you think his teammates take what Papelbon says? A guy who is a relief pitcher who has been here all of a year with a history of saying foolish antics and rocks for brains

By all accounts, Papelbon was a good teammate last year who worked with the younger guys. Didn't throw anyone under the bus specifically or criticize anyone directly.

Much ado about nothing. If the Phils win, no one will remember it. If they don't, you mind have some people refer back to it but I still have no idea how leadership and health are really related.

Dayum in another blog i posted Schwimer would get cut or traded by end of year. Didnt even last to the start of year.

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