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Tuesday, December 11, 2012


But of course.

My thought is that Hamilton was not how I imagined this offseason going--I would've much preferred a whole host of other decision sequences.

However, now that they've largely gone cheap and not particularly good at CF and 3B, I kind of think they have to go big with someone like Hamilton if they want to win this year.

The other, and I could argue more sensible, option would be just to rebuild for the future, but I think that ship has largely sailed. So if it's between Hamilton and Cody Ross and you're trying to win now, I think you have to bite the bullet and bring in Hamilton.

I have so many questions and problems with Hamilton, between the off-field risks and the enormous holes in his game, that I'm not really happy about it, though.

Jack: I very much agree.

Youk takes the Yankees 1-year deal.

Youk is 1-year $12M for Yankees.
Young is 1-year $6M for Phillies.

It will be interesting to see which deal works out the best.

Young, Revere, Hamilton. Fine, but they still haven't fixed the eighth inning and they're down a starting pitcher.

If they have the money to pay a reasonable fifth starter and a good setup guy, fine. But if Hamilton is the end of the offseason, then Rube shanked this offseason.

I agree, too, Jack.

But how exciting would it be to have him hitting HRs out of CBP!

Youkilis to the Yankees for 1 yr./$12 million? Unless he absolutely had no interest in coming here, that's another miss by the Phillies' FO.

KAS-- I think that will be decided by the Phillies use of the other $6 million and not by the performances of Youk or Young.

Why is it assumed that any player will hit more homers at CBP than Arlington? That place is easily as homer friendly as the Zen.

Heyman says the Cubs are willing to pay all but $10 million of Soriano's salary. MLBTR says Cubs are willing to pay $10 million of Soriano's salary, period. That's a big difference.

Can we honestly call the offseason a success or failure before a single game has been played?

Is this a surprise? It will surprising to learn it's more than 3/75. It could be 3/55 for all we know.

Say it is 3 for 75M. If he rejects it because of the length, do you think some option years (one player & one club) tagged onto the 3 guaranteed would be enough to get it done?

aksmith, I wasn't assuming Hamilton would hit MORE home runs here, just saying it would be nice to have him hitting those HRs for us.

Cyclic: No... it's important to make meaningless declarations as often as possible. As evidenced by the deep playoff runs by the Angels and Marlins in 2012, winning the off-season is HUGELY important.

Yes, we do need to replace Worley and attempt to find a reliable solution for the 8th inning. Please, no repeat of last year's BP nightmare(s).

Don't assume Youk would've taken that deal in Philly.

Trading Dom for Soriano would prevent a rebuild. Outside of trading a relief prospect, the Phils haven't done anything this off-season that's inconsistent with rebuilding. They're already saddled with a bunch of veteran contracts (1 year of Utley/Doc/Ruiz; a few more years of Lee/Rollins; Papelbon and Howard for awhile). They can't go into full rebuild mode. They will also always have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, so it doesn't make sense to. They should just make moves knowing it's 2012 and not 2008. Hamilton on a two-year deal isn't inconsistent with a 1 or 2 or 3 year window. 5 years of Hamilton is.

I think Jack is right on. It feels like it's got to be Hamilton. It's the only move that says "win now" which is what they need to do, given the shape of this roster. If it was 3 years / 75 million, you get it done, and assume all the risks.

"I think Jack is right on. It feels like it's got to be Hamilton. It's the only move that says "win now" which is what they need to do."

Swisher would also say "Win now," and he is, arguably, a better fit (and certainly a less risky one). Still don't get why the Phillies are seemingly not interested. It would be hard to argue with Hamilton, though, even though I think the guy's a complete nut job.

Go balls to the wall and sign Hamilton. It's high risk and a gamble but the pay off could be insane. These cheaper options like Ross or Swisher do nothing for me.

Dom for soriano? No thanks. Not because I think Dom will be a good player. Just that a 37 year old soriano is not something that interests me. Especially for $5 million a year.

Not really putting a lot of stock in a local guy's "source". I also think, as much as I'd love to see an impact bat, the money should be spent on pitching. If 1 of the big 3 go down, who picks up the slack. Not to mention the glaring hole that is the 8th inning. I know RAJ has it on his mind, just hope it's still there.

Am I just not in the know, or is that Dom Brown deal idiotic? Throw Dom Brown in there for a full season and I would bet that he has a similar year to Soriano. Plus, he's cheaper, younger, and can play right field (well kinda). I don't care how much the Cubs chipped in, I'd never do that deal.

Forget Soriano. I'd simply give Dom to the Cubs, as a gift. Hell, Mayberry, too. Let the drunks in the bleachers appreciate their toolsiness.

Since a three year deal won't be enough for Hamilton, I imagine many teams have offered it just to see how the market is shaping, even if for competitive intelligence.

As for the Dom Brown deal--I remember when the Phillies were kicking the tires on Mike Morse after Werth left. Rizzo fired back that he wanted Brown and the Phillies scoffed at it.

Corey Seidman: "Imagine a defense of Alfonso Soriano playing LF behind Michael Young at 3B. That is all."

Wouldn't get too enthused about Hamilton. If he agrees to a three year contract, I could see the Rangers matching it. And he has said he'll give the Rangers a chance to match it.

Frankly, I'd rather see a better than average starter and a good eighth inning guy and call it an offseason. I would hurt my heart to root for Hamilton. I don't want to root for a player who needs a babysitter. Same reason I hated rooting for Iverson. I admire what Hamilton, Iverson and even Michael Vick can do on their field in their respective sports, but I know I'm rooting for a guy who's going to be a cautionary tale within a very short time after leaving the sport.

I hate losing that draft pick, But I'd rather go heavy on a four year contract with Swisher than the short term deal with Hamilton.

And GBrettfan - I wasn't responding to you. Nothing wrong with what you said. I was actually responding to the tweet, I believe, from Stark that he would hit 50 at the Zen.

BB: But we have too. How else can we get mad for no reason?

The report I saw from NL East Talk page was 3 years/80 million for Hamilton.

Hamilton would be the Phillies best offensive player tomorrow. How is it even a question to get a player with his offensive ability on a 3-year deal, especially in the team's current context? This core has 1-2 years left to compete for a title and he's the only player available that can make a difference without gutting the farm system, again.

I hesitate to remind people of this, but signing Swisher or Hamilton will mean two years in a row without a first round draft pick. That's not the end of the world, but a farm system with no obvious stars is a problem over the next 3-4-5 years.

Hamilton is a great fit for these Phillies. Every big signing has it's risks. No one is perfect. But with Hamilton in the fold, that puts Brown in AAA or traded, since there's no way Nix is getting cut. I think you'll see a Ruf/Nix platoon instead and Mayberry will come off the bench, maybe as a pinch runner or as part of a double switch. Probably the best place for him, although I think he could handle a true platoon role.

Frankly, if Hamilton signs I'd prefer to drop Nix over Brown but I think the Phillies prefer a "proven" bat. Nix is why Brown is potentially trade bait. I'd rather keep Brown in AAA than trade him, so he's ready for a call up as soon as anyone is hurt. I think Brown still has untapped upside and I think Nix is just two seasons from being done.

Potential Lineups:

vs. RHP
Rollins - L/R
Utley - L
Hamilton - L
Howard - L
Young - R
Nix - L
Ruiz/Kratz - R
Revere - L

vs. LHP
Rollins - R/L
Young - R
Hamilton - R
Howard - L
Ruiz - R
Utley - L
Ruf - R
Revere - L

Brandon McCarthy signs w/ Diamondbacks.

Interesting.. Nonetheless, Gargano is one phony, neauseating-voiced piece of garbage goomba scumbag

Hamilton is not a switch hitter

You do not want to be percieved as the one chasing down the big man in the Draft, Hamilton,yes let him know you are interested, lay low like we did with Cliff Lee,a few years ago and strike..Gotta admit the Bank is another Arlington Stadium, and that's what I like about it...He tore up the A.L. last year and his stats over the past 3 years are also great...3 yr. Contract...1 option..Club or Player,or both..For $65 MILLION.$22,333,333.33..PER SEASON...Throw in your standard All Star Incentive. MVP..WS MVP..You see there is a lot of incentives that can be added if we really want him..I think we reall need him..Oh and i expect to seeRvere hitting #1 this year, sorry Jimmy..but you would be great in the 6 hole..Utley, at 2..Hamilton3..Howard 4..Young5..well you get the drift,and I think we fill the set up man role, I also think there is 1 more surprise RH Hitter with some pop left in his stick,that is going to wind up in Philly..An OF...Go get "em Reuben

This is not the way I wanted to go. I can't get past that Hamilton is a LEFT HANDED BAT! If I am an opposing manager. I will smoke the Phils line up with left-handed reliever to face Utley, Howard and Hamilton in the late innings. Game Over.

Where does that leave the team for the other needs? Is there enough money for an 8th inning setup guy and a 5th starter? Or do the Phillies now go Cloyd as the 5th starter.(please no) Got to remember you are competing against a very good Nationals and Braves teams who have better pitching.

@Gtown Dave get a grip on reality. First, how would not signing Youkalis to one year at $12M be a front office "miss?" You have looked at how many games he's missed the past two years, right? You can't help your team if you are riding the DL.

And you always rag on Mayberry. Fine. But let me explain this, slowly and in big letters so you can follow along, because I'm tired of you bitching about him:


Looking for miracles out of a guy like that? Then take a visit to the Iowa cornfields where Stan Musial backs up Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams.

No, no, no to Josh Hamilton. Anyone who needs Michael Young as an emotional caddy (this statement is another apocryphal WIP gem) is not welcome in this town.

If that’s true, yuck. There’s already a ton of drama on this team, with Jimmy and Ryan Howard citing the phans as “front-runners”.

I may need to relinquish my phan-card if Hamilton comes to town. Especially at the cost of a “scrap-heap”-acquired Band-Aid™ for the 8th. We already have a ton of aging players who are frequently hurt.

Someone explain how Hamilton improves this. Especially with Uncle Chollie at the helm. Geeesh. Can’t anyone keep this team together? Who's after Nick Swisher, anyway?

Why do we hear after the season about line up balance and acquiring a right handed power bat and getting younger and we get a young player to play centerfield who is LEFTHANDED and we get an OLD PLAYER to play 3rd and then we are after another LEFTHANDED BAT who is OLDER meanwhile giving up 2 YOUNG pitchers. Does anyone thing we are closer to the Braves and Nationals today then we were at the end of the season? Does RAJ know what the hell he is doing? I have my doubts.

Just because we are not aware of possible Phillies discussions with Swisher doesn't mean that it's not happening.

Just sayin' ...

Continuing my thoughts. If this signing comes true and this team does not make the post season then a house cleaning needs to take place. RAJ needs to be fired, Charlie go off in the sunset. Come trade deadline move whatever veterans you can for young talent and get the young guys in the farm system and move forward towards 2015.

I am not a big Domonic Brown fan but please NO for Soriano! If the Phils get Hamilton then platoon Brown and Ruf in left. THe Phils still need relief help and a starter. FOCUS RAJ!

Anthony Gargano - Woodward and Bernstein have nothing on him

Was getting Young a precursor to signing Hamilton?

Are we being so near-ssighted that most commenters are ignoring Ruf? There's no guarantee that a "proven" bat is going to perform. We've beeen ther done that and didn't get a T-Shirt. The Phils need to give Ruf as much of a chance they have given to Dom and JMJr. My lineup would be:

Rollins - until Chooch comes back

Ralph, I agree about the Ruf/Brown rotation. But Mayberry has had his shot. Mayberry should be a pinch hitter and defensive replacement in the late innings for Brown/Ruf.

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