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Sunday, December 23, 2012


Couldn't agree more JW. Sometimes the best move is the one you don't make. In my opinion Cody Ross falls into that category. If you can't get the corner outfielder with the big bat, a bulletproof bullpen seems like a helluva consolation prize. Especially considering that the Ben Revere trade points to a renewed emphasis on run prevention.

I wouldn't mind signing another bullpen piece and pushing out like a Stutes. As long as Aumont and De Fratus get some innings in. With another addition to the pen I think both of them can thrive in the roles they will take up already with the addition of Adams.

In that picture Howell looks like an extra from Moonshiners. John Kruk redux?

I wish they would go in on a Kyle lohse like a 2 yr 18-20mill nd sign jp Howell 2yr 8 mil

Who here thinks Rube is forcing Charlie to play ball how Rube wants to play ball? i.e. Acknowledging that splits are real. He seems fed up with Charlie after that season ticket holder gathering.

Also, what's a productive and acceptable season stat wise from Halladay, Howard and Utz? Oh yeah, how come Utz chips never signed The Saint as its spoksman? It always seemed so obvious to me.

Great idea. Spend more money on pitching, while the offense has not been good enough to win for years. Love the idea. Lets keep thinking Amaro has a clue. Cuz he has done nothing to help out the offense.

The offense has been old for years.

JW~ What do you mean IF the outfield falls flat? None of them except Revere is proven to be a MLB starter. It won't matter what they'll do at the deadline because they won't be in contention.

Limo~ I wasn't crazy abou the Revere trade either. Though like you I thought another deal was coming. This all comes down to RAJ's smugness and reluctance to pay for offensive players.

Eric~ You're right. Although pitching and defense wins WFC's, you have to have enough of an offense to support the pitching. But that being said, he won't even spend more money on pitching. Hate to say this phans, the roster is set. No more moves to come. Maybe Hairston, but if that doesn't happen, my theory about the roster is correct.

Runs scored last year: 684 (8th in NL)
Runs allowed last year: 680 (9th in NL)
Earned runs allowed last year: 618 (8th in NL)

Looks to me like a team that was pretty average in both areas and Amaro would be better off looking to where he can get the most bang for the buck which at this point is the relief market.

Clout did make a good point about Gorzelanny who would have given the Phils a little more starting depth but has been very good as a LH reliever the past 2 years. He would have been a better value than Howell.

MG: Exactly. Focus on relief at this stage.

If the Phils don't spend anymore money this offseason, it is first and foremost because they are seeing a serious lag in season tickets sale at this point & projected attendance/gate revenues this year.

Signing Hairston isn't going to make an ounce of difference in selling any additional season tickets and potentially only a marginal one in the win column so the Phils are risk-adverse at spending $5M on him.

MG~ I know you point valid stats, but I'm hestitant to think, with our lack of production from the OF, that we'll score 600 runs. Sure we'll probably allow less too. But without an offense upgrade (clearly evident RAJ failed on one of his own initiative here), there's still way too much pressure in the pitching staff.

And you and clout are both correct on Gorz. Why did RAJ miss the boat on him? He chose to pay Adams.

Well maybe they should just move the youth movement alittle quicker. Trade lee to texas for prospects, trade paps to detroit, trade ruiz to yanks. Start Pettitibone, Aumunt, and Joesph. Why wait till 2014. This team as constructed is no better then 3rd place.

Funny thing about season tickets. I thought it would be a slam dunk to move to better seats and grab an extra ticket. Been trying now for over a month with still no luck. Still a wait list. hmm

I'm keeping the big trade going in my mind. If the Phillies sign Howell they probably are packaging Bastardo. Every move Amaro makes now will somehow be involved in the complex multi-team trade for a big bat OF. Seems obvious to me. Go Amaro - outbid Riz.

Is Grady Sizemore still available?

Clout did make a really good point about Gorzelanny as a reliever. His numbers as a reliever since 2010 have been very solid:

65 G, 97 IP, 2.69 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 7.8 K/9, 3.7 BB/9, 2.1 K/BB, .229 BAA

Would the Brewers listen to talks for Corey Hart starting with Dom Brown? Brown is still controllable and Hart has 1 more year left. I don't know how the Brew Crew's bullpen looks like but maybe add in Bastardo. I think Corey Hart would look nice in our lineup.

Eric - That's ridiculous and you need to see how things play out. You have no idea if this is a 3rd place team or not until they begin take the field in spring training.

The Phils also won't get the return you think they will for those players with those contracts for Lee & Papelbon. Lee also has a limited no-trade clause where he block a trade to any city except 8 clubs he selects annually each year.

Chooch isn't going to get you a ton either because he is suspended for 25 games and is a free agent at the end of the year.

If the Phils really scuffle this year again and are several games below .500 at the trading deadline, you they should potentially looking at nuking the roster and seeing what they can get for a Lee or a Papelbon.

RAJ's history tells us that he is loathe to trade away prospects for one-year rentals. I cannot see him dealing Dom -- let alone Dom plus prospects -- for one year of Corey Hart.

MG- Please explain to me why its ok to speed 100mil a year on pitching but only 60mil on players that play EVERY day?

JW, it'ce nice to see you banging out the thread headers!!!

The only deal that Amaro should be actively pursuing is a possible trade with Arizona for Justin Upton. If this is not possible go into the season with the oufielders that are on the roster, pursue upgrades at the trading deadline in July.

Eric - Those are sunk costs and it would be fine to spend $60M on position players if they had some younger talent that was productive & cost-controlled.

You are screaming for them to 'get younger' and that is exactly what they are largely planning to do in the OF and in the bullpen?

" Please explain to me why its ok to speed 100mil a year on pitching but only 60mil on players that play EVERY day?"

Well, first, the starting pitcher is, by far, the most important player in every game. Second, a very plausible argument can be made that, for all of the offense's problems last year, we would have still been a 90-win playoff team if we had an even halfway decent bullpen. Third, if you believe you have young, cheap everyday players who can give you the same production as the various FA alternatives who are within your budget, then why would you spend your budget on those FA alternatives?

BAP: I know that is usually how Amaro works but if the front office really has any faith in Ruf I think they would move Brown for even 1 year of Hart. You can always extend him or if not the free agent class isn't too shabby next year. Would Hart put us over the luxury tax I am not sure how much he makes?

Here's to Dom Brown's confidence and Ruf's feline grace and power refined in his hot yoga work.

"Great idea. Spend more money on pitching, while the offense has not been good enough to win for years."

OK, Eric, I'll try to be respectful, but when someone posts something as patently stupid - and stupid because it's false - as what I've quoted above, it's really hard.

I posted this infor in the Lanna thread but in a different context:

RS = runs scored



So, we see the runs the team scored declined for 5 of the last 6 years, yet for 5 straight years they won more games than the year before.

Please explain. Thanks in advance.

A de3adline deal is good only if in race-even or ahead; do not like giving up prospects if 5-6 games out-and especially bec. Wash and Atl are a lot better than us. I think we need to think about rebuilding with younger talent rather than trading nit away.

This all comes down to RAJ's smugness and reluctance to pay for offensive players.


DPat: No. It comes down to your douchiness about Amaro not doing what you want him to do.

I was on the record numerous times saying I wanted Swisher, so take that context for these comments. I don't think it is the worst thing in the world not signing Swisher even with as great as he would've been in this line-up. The Phillies have been keeping tabs on Ruf and I wonder if maybe they see something there more than we do. Also, it is time to see what Brown can do. That way you know going forward whether you are saving a bunch of money on a starting right fielder or saving some money on a 4th outfielder, or wasting your time with a guy not worthy of being on the roster. Adding 14 million a year for 5 years would've hindered this team a little going forward. not going that far with him feels like- playing your hand this time around to hopefully have money to tinker in the future when some young guys are emerging.

Would it really be a terrible thing if Brown and Ruf emerged as legitimate bats in the line-up? And if they don't by July, then you trade for someone.

"This all comes down to RAJ's smugness and reluctance to pay for offensive players."

Another DPat Silly Moment.

Ryan Howard $25MM
Chase Utley $15MM
Jimmy Rollins $11MM
Chooch $5MM

And recent performers:

Raul Ibanez $11MM
Gff Jenkins $5MM
Victorino $9.5MM
Polanco $6.25MM
J Werth $7.5MM
Burrell $14.25MM

So, are they reluctant, or are they being cautious?

"MG- Please explain to me why its ok to speed 100mil a year on pitching but only 60mil on players that play EVERY day?"

Eric, bap did an excellent job above of explaining it, but I waould also as you to review my 12:09 post.

You see, the increasing win totals through 2011 were because they inproved the PITCHING, not because they kept scoring more runs.

awh: sophist has also posted some statistics that show that runs prevented have more value than runs scored at a certain point. This is why many GMs believe in playing to their strengths rather than trying to paper over their weaknesses.

I think this is especially true in an era where offense, across baseball, has been in decline.

When you have a great rotation, you win more by adding a great defense and great bullpen than you do by beefing up the offense.

The average WIP caller would never understand that, not to mention he hates 3-2 wins, much preferring a sloppy 11-9 win.

I agree with Eric and DPatrone that offense is going to be a real concern with this team even if Howard bounces bounces back somewhere close to his 2010-11 form and Utley starts 120 G. JW's right too this is a team in offensive decline.

They scuffled badly in August to score runs but did well in Sept.

If the Phils can average a little more than 4 runs/game, they should be okay as long as the pitching rebounds.

For all of the complaining about the offensive lethargy last year, it was the pitching that sunk them especially during their 5-week stretch of horrendous baseball in June & early July when the starting pitching was awful with Halladay out, Lee getting shelled, and Hamels/Blanton struggling a bit.

It was a team built around starting pitching last year and that is exactly what failed them when they went into their real tailspin.

Average WIP caller just wants a team that wins and will call to bitch when they lose. Period.

In baseball, that just happens a lot given the amount of games you play and that even the best teams lose 40% of their games.

JW: "The offense has been old for years."

This is true and its core group gets older every season.

That said, the average age of the offense overall has been getting younger.

Year Avg Age of Batters
2010 31.8
2011 31.4
2012 31.1

FWIW, the average age of the 1983 Wheeze Kids, who went to the WS, was 31.9

MG: I bet the sharp decline in runs allowed last season was directly caused by the collapse of the bullpen and the injury/mediocre performance of Halladay.

If Halladay returns to health and the bullpen is improved, runs allowed will go back to where it was in the prior 3 years: Top 3 in the NL.

TTI~ I would have liked Swisher as well. But I take offense to your comments. It's not that not doing what I want. He's not doing ANYTHING at all to upgrade the team offensively. And no, it's not a bad idea to see what our guys can do. But it's just that neither of them are proven commodities. I'd be more comfortable win one.

AWH~ Sorry, I din't mean unwilligness to pay offensive players they way I wrote it. I meant unwillingness to pay the current crop of FA's what they were likely to get.

If Upton's, Swisher's or Ross' price tag would have been lower, we might have had a shot. And JW's right, there's no need to settle for OF scraps. But when the better players are gone, what else is there? Waiting for the deadline will prove fruitless, they'll be out of it by then.

I'm clearly an advocate to see what Ruf can do. I've seen what Mayberry and Brown can do. Not inpressed.

"BAP: I know that is usually how Amaro works but if the front office really has any faith in Ruf I think they would move Brown for even 1 year of Hart."

Alex, has it ever occured to you that they have faith in Brown AND Ruf?

If that's the case, then why trade away the possibility og having a young, inexpensive OF?

We all know what Revere has done, so let's use Bill James projections from fangraphs, cut them back a little bit, and then try to project what Ruf might do if he earns the opportunity to play in ST:

For Brown, James projects this:

.274/.347/.445, with 17 HR and 77 RBI


.288/.331/.331, 0 HR, 33 RBI, 64 R

Personally, I think the BA/OBP from Brown might be a little high, so I''l cut him back a bit to this:


Revere's slash line looks like it might beright, but James only projected him to play in 125 games, and that's probably very low. If he plays in 150, he's likely to score more and have a few more RBI. But keep in mind, he's there for his defense.

Now we get to Ruf. I have no idea what he's capable of doing, or whether he can even hit MLB pitching consistently. But others here have posted projections for him that look like this:

.260/.340/.425, 20 - 25 HR

If Ruf does that, IMHO he'll stick in LF, as long as he's not less than Luzinski/Burrell out there.

So what the Phillies would have, is an OF that did this:

RF: .265/.335/.440, 15 - 20 HR
CF: .288/.331/.331
LF: .260/.340/.425, 20 - 25 HR

with the possibility that they could be better.

Now, here's what the cost would be:

RF: MLB minimum
CF: MLB minimum
LF: MLB minimum

That leaves the team with a lot of flexibility to make a move at the deadline or to pick up another ST cut.

And as numerous posters have typed repeatedly here, the offense is going to boil down to how well Howard, Utley and Young play, and what Chooch can do when he returns.

The OF in 2013 is taking the role of supporting cast.

Meyer, perhaps you should spend less time insulting others intelligence and do some research. The Phils win total did increase despite reduced run support, but that was a result of one of the best pitching staff performances of the last 30 years. If the expectation is to achieve a near historic run prevention every season, than runs scored do not factor as much. Maybe you should consider other factors such as that instead of blanket stats?

awh: The chances of Ruf putting up a line of .260/.340/.425, 20 - 25 HR after a minor league career in which his power came out of nowhere at age 25 in Double A, and with no Triple A experience, are slim to none IMHO.

You can make a much more solid case for Brown's projection because his secondary stats have always been good, he now has two seasons of MLB experience at age 25, and his minor league career was solid throughout, not a sudden flash in the pan. Plus he's got better tools across the board.

But if Ruf does tear up the league, as BAP predicts, no one will be more happy and suprised than me.

DPat, I'm totally impressed by what Mayberry can do - against LHP.

Wow, Meyer gets called out for something awh posted. First time Meyer ever got called out, even by mistake.

clout, if you look at Ruf's MiL numbers, he's always been able to hit and get on base - he did it at every level - it's the power surge that's the recent phenomnon.

So, I agree that the power chances are slim and that he needs to prove the power isn't a flash in the pan.

I do believe, however, that he can hit .260 and get on base, though .340 might be a little high. There's nothing in his MiL numbers that indicates he won't be able to at least put the bat on the ball.

Thought you correctly imply the question:

Will he be able to hit for enough power too play corner OF?

clout, PatrickJ is obviously a lurker and doesn't come here much.

If he did, he would realize that people posts are ABOVE their name, not below. He would also realize that insults are part and parcel to BL.

Patrick, thanks for providing some context, but I was responding this comment by Eric:

"Great idea. Spend more money on pitching, while the offense has not been good enough to win for years."

If you look at the incresing win totals, it is a clear that it's a patently false comment. Also, because it's so easily refuted by widely available data, it was a patently stupid commnent to make, and was obviouly made by someone who doesn't care enough to do a little homework before he posts and makes himself a fool.

The chances of Ruf putting up a line of .260/.340/.425, 20 - 25 HR ... are slim to none IMHO.

That's how I feel about Brown. Kid's got tools, but he's apparently incapable of using them to build anything.

AWH~ You're right mayberry hits LH's well. Has Brown shown you anything that he can perform well against RH's? Being in VA, I have not \seen enough of him.

I don't think the Phillies should sign J.P. Howell. Look at this article:
He would be much more expensive than say Bastardo, with only a marginal upgrade. That being said, I cannot think of another way to use the money besides the bullpen or corner outfield. Perhaps they go after Shaun Marcum, who would be an upgrade over Kendrick...Or they could save the money for the trade deadline...

I still think pursuing Kubel and using him with Mayberry in LF is the best bet. 35 HRs and a .500/.850 power combination from those two. You could get Kubel for a fair price.

If that doesn't happen, JW is right that Howell should be pursued to solidify pitching (at all points of the game) as the strength of the team.

Indians have signed Swisher to 4 year, $56M deal.

The Phillies have Mayberry. And Nix. And Brown.

/sad trombone

How about Ryan Friel? Would you pull the trigger on him?

Mayberry Destroys fastballs.. And is good at defense.. I feel he should get alot of playing time this year..

Not funny Evil Ed, not funny at all.

A lot has been speculated about Ruf on this site. One of the things no one has discussed is what his L/R splits have been in the minors.

Well, I don't know if this is accurate, but I found a site that purports to have the splits:

Looks like Ruf has some pretty pronounced splits:

Career MiL:

vs. LHP: .373/.461/.727, ISO .354

vs. RHP: .286/.371/.498, ISO .212

Reading 2012:

vs. LHP: .385/.475/.838, ISO .453, 19 HR, .336 BAbip, 177 PA

vs. RHP: .281/.373/.521, iso .240, 19 HR, .310 BAbip, 402 PA

It would be great if Sophist or someone else would weigh in as to how those numbers might translate to the show.

As a starter to not look like a fool, Evil Ed needs to learn how to spell the poor guys's name.

He looks like a fool no matter what.

Mike, agree.

Got sick and tired of them not scoring enough runs last year. Got even more sick and tired of them blowing leads in the 7th and 8th inning when they did score enough runs. If you can't (or won't) get a big hitter then I would go with improving the bullpen as much as possible. I would go get Howell.

My own personal attitude toward Ruf is that I expect him to hit like Mayberry. Mayberry is excellent against LHP, which I expect will be the case with Ruf. And Mayberry shows power, K's a bunch, and is wildly inconsistent against RHP. That is what I expect for Ruf. Maybe Ruf is more consistent and hits like 'good' Mayberry, in which case he should be the starter in LF. If Ruf hits like 'bad' Mayberry he is a RH pinch hitter since, unlike Mayberry, Ruf is useless in the field.

I think Ruf should start in the minors. I'd like the Phillies to get another bat for the bench and figure on Nix/Mayberry platoon in LF, with Brown in RF. I'd like Phillies to take a shot at Sizemore or maybe even someone like Hafner. I'd also like to see Galvis in LHV with either Frandsen as the only middle INF backup (unlikely) or sign someone like Theriot or Downs.

I think my currently proposed bench is pretty weak:
Frandsen, Nixberry, Catcher (Valle then Kratz), Hitter (Ruf), Infielder (Theriot).

If that is the case then all those guys are RH hitters when Nix starts. If Phillies get a full time LF then Nix adn Mayberry are the PH and Ruf goes to minors. As it stands, I think the bench is weaker than last year.

That's why I like Sizemore or Hafner and possible quality bench bats, both of whom might still have ties to Manuel. Sizemore might be a big upside gamble but he might be out until mid-season anyway. I think both those guys try to stay in the AL where the DH gives them more chances to play.

One other potential upside bat I see is Berkman. I'd profile him as similar to Kubel but would not cost any prospects.

awh, not sure about how they translate, but those look like the good kind of pronounced splits for a RHB to have.

Good against RHP, GREAT against LHP.

If that proportion translates to the majors, you've got a player on your hands.

PhxPhilly, there is a difference between Ruf and Mayberry, in that Ruf has much better MiL splits vs. RHP than does Mayberry.

Mayberry had these splits in LV against RHP:

2010: .239/.304/.391, 406 PA
2011: .253/.284/.354, 88 PA

I'm not sure how that compares to Ruf's #s at AA, but RFD has probably never hit RHP as well as Ruf.

Fatalotti: How certain are you that they will?

Fatalotti: How certain are you that they will?

Posted by: clout | Sunday, December 23, 2012 at 04:44 PM

I have no idea how to even gauge if they would. I'll just wait and see.

I don't understand why RAJ seems so certain Ruf cannot play. He has earned the chance and I'd rather fail with him than some of the scraps RAJ has been talking about.

As it stands, we go into the 2013 with the worst OF in all of baseball right now.

"I don't understand why RAJ seems so certain Ruf cannot play."

With the amount of corner OFs he's picked up in the off-season (zero), I'd say the reality is pretty much exactly the opposite of that. Ruf is going to get plenty of chances to fall flat on his face.

Matt Lindstrom would be a good pick up.
How does one know that the Phils have the worst of in the majors before a single pitch has been thrown or a single ab taken?
Wasn't aware that every player produced the same results every year. Good for Michael Jack that he got a 2nd,3rd... year.

How does one know that the Phils have the worst of in the majors before a single pitch has been thrown or a single ab taken?

How does one know that's actually NEPP posting?

Agree that the Phillies 2013 projected OF is likely the worst in baseball. Curious if they have the fewest starts amongst the projected 5 member OF crew.

Who do the Astros got out there for 2013? I never heard of the guys they had last year.

"Agree that the Phillies 2013 projected OF is likely the worst in baseball."

Which is why it needed an upgrade. Didn't, and won't happen.

Hardly a logical reason to deal a cost-controlled young OF for 1 year of a guy who at best would be a marginal upgrade. At this point I can barely see justification for anything other than an outfield rotation of our young guys. Roll the dice and if the pitching is there we'll be in contention and make a move for a corner OF if need be at the deadline.

Wow, I was called out by mistake and wasn't around to enjoy the moment.

Yeah and justin upton would be a great pick up. As ray diddy would say reality check! what are we going to trade. Rube is done. Will wait for ST cut or deadline deal. Really not hard to comprehend. Time to see what team has in ruf and brown. Class of 2014 a lot deeper. And with 40 more mill off books. Easier to sign a Nelson Cruz etc.. Still once again if chase Howard and doc aren't on field doesn't matter. We could have signed josh and still bitch about runs and rube.

If the Phillies were an upstart team then the 'young' OF of Ruf, Revere, Brown might be considered to have great potential all for under $2M. Based on their Major League pedigree, skepticism seems reasonable to me.

However, I tend to agree that the Cody Ross types are not enough better than Mayberry (and the potential of Ruf and Brown) to pay for them now. Brown was a top notch prospect and I think he deserves at least another half a year of starts to see if he can at least be better than $8M starters.

I think keeping the draft pick is smart for the longer term, but not adding a known middle of the order bat from the corners (3B,LF,RF) does leave the offense couting on these young guys pretty heavily. The Nix portion of the NixBerry platoon is not appealing in the 5 slot in the batting order.

That's really me above. I am open for debate on the subject but going into the season with Ruf/Revere/Brown (as it stands right now) is the worst outfield I can think of. Its an OF that could very easily average a sub-.700 OPS with pretty terrible defense at both corners.

Sure, UC will likely platoon in Mayberry and Nix but that's not much of an improvement.

Clearly another move has to be made prior to the start of the season. It wont be a big one as all the big names are off the board (outside of Bourn but we already have a CF).

Yeah, maybe the Astros but they're not even arguably an MLB team right now.

Hook -- I love your posts. However, it's my guess you post from a phone.

Any man who's a fan of Ray Didinger is a friend of mine. I'd love to see a "Hook" post or 2 from a keyboard -- with punctuation.

"Sure, UC will likely platoon in Mayberry and Nix but that's not much of an improvement."

Exactly. Nix is terrible and the thought of him getting 60-70% of the ABs in LF is sickening.

Replace Nix with Kubel and you turn LF into an offensive strength with 35-40 HR potential between Kubel and Mayberry.

Platoons almost never work out as well as you want them to.

Look, I'm as big of a critic of Brown as anybody and I'm not sold on Babe Ruf either, but there simply isn't anyone out there that is a big enough upgrade to justify the cost, nor is there anyone available in trade that is worth selling off the few controllable semi-prospects that we have left.

The Beerleaguer mantra is that someone mentions a name, and the chorus of responses are glorified versions of "he sucks".

Lets just let the damn kids play and see what happens. A double platoon isn't the worst idea, and this won't be the worst OF in the history of the game. Pull your undies out of your asscrack and just root for your friggin team, huh?

Nobody said "in the history of the game". I said, "worst in baseball right now"

Nice effort on a strawman though.

I agree from looking at the bench that a Lefty OF is actually needed, despite the large lefty heavy middle of the order. Mayberry, Young, and maybe Fransen, Ruf, Kratz will benefit facing lefties.

But actually any starting OF that outperforms/pushes Nix to the bench would improve the team considerably. I liked Schierholtz better than Nix (mostly for defense) but he would not be the answer either. I do not even count the Rule5 guy, he was useless the second Phillies got Revere.

Whatever, they do, the Phillies need to have payroll flexibility at the trade deadline. If they are willing to go over the Luxury Tax at that time then I am all for a Kubel or Soriano type. If Ruf beats them out by midseason they they go to the bench (hopefully Brown is good because none of these guys can play RF). Only reason I could see Wells as useful is he could play all the OF spots (but again, Mayberry seems much better than Wells).

Its an OF that could very easily average a sub-.700 OPS with pretty terrible defense at both corners.


You really expecting Revere to drag those numbers down huh?

NEPP: Don't feed the troll.

Hard to say an OF of Ruf-Revere-Brown would be the league's worst, since Revere's performance is the only one we can safely guesstimate. But chances are high that it could be. It's certainly the league's riskiest OF. That's why I think Rube makes a move. Posters who say a 2-platoon OF wouldn't be a problem don't know baseball, or are stuck back in the day when teams carried 10 or 11 pitchers. If you're planning to be a contender, using 2 platoons is impractical.

clout: I don't think they use two platoons. I think Brown is your starter in right and then Ruf/Mayberry/Nix share time in left with one giving Brown days off occasionally and being the first bats off the bench.

I don't know what kind of OPS that gives you. I know that Revere has a .642 career OPS. Brown in 492 plate appearances has a career .703, and Ruf is a huge wild card.

NEPP- that's true, especially when you have shitty players like Nix making up half of the platoon. Kubel is not Laynce Nix.

I'm glad that cursing is now allowed on here. It makes things much more colorful.

Nix is the weakest link. If he starts, I replace him with Mayberry or double switch once he'd face a lefty and then just leave Mayberry in there. Brown should stay in the game. Ruf, if he plays, would be a defensive switch, not sure if it would be Nix or Mayberry but I'd rather have Mayberry vs RHP than Nix vs LHP.

Howard will never be pinch hit for even against the toughest lefty so that is just pointless for me to propose. However, sitting Howard against a tough lefty starter makes sense, and he is an imposing PH off the bench. I'd play Frandsen at 3B and Young at 1B in that case. PH for either depending on situation and leave Howard in the game.

Sub .700 is a bit of an exaggeration but a sub .750 wouldn't shock me

I hadn't even realized I cursed. I normally censor myself here because it's a dignified site based on actual arguments most of the time. When it comes to players like Nix, though, no words need to be wasted when describing him.

I remember after Papelbon blew that save in LA I typed easily the most vulgar thing I've ever attempted to post on this site, and really hoped it wouldn't get dumped because I felt it would help me with catharsis in some stupid way. Alas, it got dumped and I was furious for the next hour and a half.

Mets OF is worse for starters but that isn't exactly high praise either.

Clout with the troll remark yet again, dragging out his patented circa 1997 internet message board retort.

Fact is that there isn't an improvement to be had via free agency, and there's not a lot of valuable trade chips to work with. I think that anything that could be done before the trade deadline would be making a move for the sake of making a move. Brown/Ruf/Revere/Mayberry/Nix with the Rule 5 kid on the bench is what they have to work with. It is what it is.

The only plausible option out there is Soriano. Bottom line is that we're going to have a flawed outfield. The question is which flaws they're willing to live with.

Either way, it won't be the worst OF for the season (no strawman necessary, Nepp).

Clout: what makes you think that they aren't considering carrying an extra pitcher?

Who gives Revere a day off?


Didn't they claim a CF in the Rule 5?

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone!

I'm all for getting Howell and calling the off-season a wrap. It wasn't great, but they did address some issues (CF, 3B, 8th inning) at relatively low cost. A corner outfielder would've been a luxury. I'm glad Rube didn't sign someone just to make a move. That would've been foolish.

Veteran corner OFs are generally available at the deadline. If they really need one, that's the time to get one -- not overspend for a guy simply because there aren't any better options.

Making moves for the sake of making moves isn't a good thing. Signing one of these garbage outfielders (even the "good" ones at high dollars) would have been a mistake if you ask me.

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EST. 2005

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