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Wednesday, December 05, 2012


you're kidding? right? old, old, old.

I'd be very happy with this. The consequences of going over the lux tax this year would be pretty minimal with this plan.

re Vic contract from last thread:

If they move him to RF he's less valuable even if he bumps back to career norms. I think he'll recover some power, and fill in at CF from time to time, but even then it's a slight overpay over the three years. And then there's the risk that 2012 was actually a sign of a player losing his skills as well as the possibility that he plays every game in RF and struggles. Just a surprising amount of money for Vic, but could work out for Boston.

This is a great post, and pretty much the best case scenario.

Bourn at the top of the lineup and against LHP, Youk-Mayberry-Willingham-Ruiz in the middle of the lineup mashing.

Chances of this happening? .001%

How many people think Jack would be praising the Vic deal if Amaro made it? Show of hands? Anyone?

I agree with this post. I'd be happy with this. I'm of the opinion that they are all-in for this year, and these players could be very productive for this season. It would also turn Galvis/Frandsen into good bench assets, and allow you swap Utley/Youk out once a week, and have a capable player there to play one of those positions.

I would be very happy if they did this.

I get the feeling Bourn is looking for more money than 5/77.5. Boras might back off that position if no one is interested, but as has been pointed out - there aren't many CF options left out there at this juncture.

re: Scheirholtz

You don't get compensation for free agents that aren't type A/B, which he was not. Every team tries to trade a player before nontendering them, so you must assume that no one was willing to acquire Scheirholtz and tender him for 2013. Now that he is nontendered, there are teams that kicking tires on signing him to mlb minimum/minor league deals.

I like that plan. I don't like Bourn at that price, but I like the plan because it is probably the most feasible and helps to fill the holes they have. Plus if Youk would sign for only 2 years and having Willingham on the books for 2 more years, is a good thing, regardless of age.

They have missed on Willingham so many times. I have a sinking feeling that if they finally do acquire him, he'll fail.

I still blame Amaro for not getting Willingham from WSH immediately after the Werth deal. Chain of events are devastating ever since missing that.

Schierholtz wasn't an impending free agent at all. He was a player with less than six years service time. The Phillies owned his rights. The Phillies non-tendered him instead of tendering him a contract offer that would've been subject to arbitration. The process is completely different than tendering a qualifying offer to an impending free agent.

Iceman - And remember the comparable move for the Phils wouldn't be signing Vic at 3/39 to play CF. The Red Sox already have a CF. How would people feel if the Phils swung a trade for Ellsbury and then signed Vic to 3/39 to play RF? Can't imagine that would go over well (although CBP RF is not the trouble that Fenway's is but still).

I think Youkilis will get more than that per year, given the dearth of third basemen. Maybe not more than 2 years, but I'm guessing that if Victorino can pull in 40 million in 3 years, then this market will get Youkilis more than 20, one way or another.

Doesn't address the pen, either. I would rather pay for one of the better relievers still available and hold onto Worley and Cloyd. That's our depth and our only strength, apparently, going into the season.

I didn't start the offseason high on a big money contract for Bourn, but the more I look at our corner outfield options, the more I think we need defensive excellence in center because our corner outfield options (Ruf, Willingham, Brown, Soriano, etc) appear like places where we are trading subpar defense for power.

Bourn, Uehara or Adams, hold onto the prospects and give Ruf and Brown the ABs. Trade for a corner outfielder midsummer if necessary or get a cheap insurance policy. Stay competitive with pitching and defense.

"This is a great post, and pretty much the best case scenario."

The alternative to this would be to trade for a younger CF and sign the corner OF bat. Bourn-Willingham-Youk vs Fowler-Swisher-Youk for instance.

I'm not sold on dealing Worley for a stopgap. He's too cheap and has too much upside--we need that kind of value going forward. I do agree on Youk, however. Don't understand the griping about him on this board. In his down year last year he was good for a .771 OPS; when was the last time any 3B of ours approached that mark? And his down-year OBP was six points higher than Bourn's career year.

As for Bourn, I don't like it, but he looks like the only realistic option left. That contract is kind of nuts though compared to what other OFs have signed this year.

Worley fits the mold for the typical Twins starter, but the Twins can hold out for the best return for Willingham (no desperation).

I don't like Youkilis. I think his defense is entering the Mark Reynolds zone. He's far over the hill. But, he adds something the lineup lacks (high OBP, tough AB/RH).

I like Hamilton and think he's the best option considering the Phillies big weakness (middle of the lineup). The trouble is how to break up Utley/Howard/Hamilton.

We've had this argument about Howard's contract before. It didn't stop the Phils from signing Lee or Hamels or Papelbon. They made $10M+ offers for Upton and Pagan. Every team has a budget, but it's not really clear that Howard's contract alone is the issue. They'd probably be paying someone $20M to man first base. The problem with Howard's contract is that Howard doesn't appear to be a very productive player anymore (and much sooner than most expected).

"The trouble is how to break up Utley/Howard/Hamilton."

Hamilton has good numbers against lefties. Utley has good career numbers against lefties.

Sorry, muffed Youk's OBP above. Still higher in his down year than Bourn's career OBP (obviously they're not comparable players, but I think people don't really keep in mind how middling Bourn is at getting on base, and how valuable it is).

Re: Victorino.

It seems the Phils had pretty much no interest in bringing him back, so I presume they had no problem watching him sign with Boston.

Isn't Polanco still available? Problem solved at 3B. Seriously, haven't heard his name mentioned once. Not even by one of the bottom feeders. Guess it's curtains for the Great Gazoo.

Been away for a while, but just came back to express my shock at the Victorino contract. Nobody has been a bigger Vic booster than me, right from the day he was acquired in the rule 5 draft.

But this contract from the Red Sox is ludicrous. If Vic were coming off his best season and a couple of years younger, I think it would be reasonable. But the Red Sox just got out from under a bunch of bad contracts and appear to be jumping back into some less bad, but still bad, contracts.

I will continue to root for Shane, even now that he's a Sawx. But I am shocked at the money being thrown around by the Red Sox on both Napoli and Victorino.

And I am here to say I was completely wrong about what he would get in free agency. I'm still not wrong about what he's actually worth. But he got twice as much and more years than I thought he would. And right now, Angel Pagan is probably wishing he'd made a deal with the Red Sox because he might have gotten the same money for one less year.

best case scenario and Justin Upton or Mike Stanton wasn't included.....check please

I agree that Utley and Hamilton have held their own against lefties, but you have to worry about high leverage situations against LH relief. I'm for Utley batting second going forward. Utley's slugging against lefties in 2012--.355.

Indians apparently offered Vic 4/44. This wasn't just a Red Sox thing.

3 way trade between Tribe, D-Backs and Phillies. Phillies get J Upton. D_Backs A Cabrera and C Lee. Tribe get Bauer. Then sign Youkilis, mid tier SP like McCarthy, E Jackson and snag a FA reliever

This also assumes that the set-up man comes out of the current bullpen, which seems risky. I'd rather leave Youkilis out, and sign Uehara or Adams, possibly staying under the luxury tax threshold.

Would it make sense to re-sign Polanco at peanuts for one year? Wouldn't a Polly/Frandsen platoon (yeah yeah, they're both righthanded I know) make more sense than the proposed Frandsen/Galvis platoon that everyone seems to loathe. I'm of course assuming that Polly could be had in the one to two million range.
I'm just wondering wouldn't that be better than what we are currently looking at? Or, more to the point, would that be what Rube is thinking?

Reasonable post but it leaves the Phils a little short on the pitching side including in their rotation and no setup man for the bullpen.

Pitching (and to a lesser degree defense) were the real issues with this club last year. Don't advocate a series of solutions that focus entirely on adding offense while notably weakening the pitching staff further.

Polanco is cooked. Do not want.

I am also surprised that names like Jack Hannahan are floating around but no mention of Polanco. Throwing bighead a million bucks isn't that bad of an idea for a lot of teams. Obviously not a Plan A, but I'm sure he'll get a job eventually.

I believe signing Bourn would mean forfeiting our 1st rd pick.

eric-- Your scenario is really two separate deals. Lee for Upton and Cabrera for Bauer.. Where's the intersection?

"salvage" in the heading implies the Phillies should have spent more on Victorino, Pagan and BJ Upton. I guess money grows on trees and you can just reverse any bad contract. The Phillies should either make a huge splash or nothing at all. I'd rather see a full season of Ruf and Dom Brown then commit to any more irresponsible long term contracts for mid tier guys and suffer for years

"Schierholtz wasn't an impending free agent at all. He was a player with less than six years service time. The Phillies owned his rights."

Right. The whole premise of the post was wrong. If the Phillies tender him a contract and he turns it down, then they go to arbitration & the arbitrator decides his 2013 salary. But, at the end of the process, he's still a Phillie. There's no draft pick compensation involved because he wouldn't be leaving.

this is exactly the kind of short-sighted thinking that got us where we are now. you dramatically overpay bourn, trade for willingham who can't defend, and sign youkilis who very possibily is finished himself. and when these moves disappoint next year (as they likely will), you now have little flexibility for 2014 ... we have to stop thinking that next year we need to be loaded ... trade for fowler if you can ... find another version of wilton lopez ... and sign cody ross ...

Is Polanco even physically able to play anymore? With all of his health issues, you have to figure he's going to be out more than he plays.

MG - If you don't want to trade for Willingham, you could also try and sign Ludwick to a 2-year deal. Apparently that's what he is being offered.

Still rather see the Phils go after Youkilis especially if it is a 2-yr deal. Might have to go 3 though in order to get the AAV value down and backload the actual salary this year.

Frandsen/Galvis at 3B isn't a solution. At a minimum, they need to bring in another 3B even if it is a guy like Chavez on a 1 yr/$2-3M deal.

Figuring the Phils have $24M or so under the cap to play with yet:

1. Sign Youk to a 2/$20M deal to start at 3B (Leaves $14M)
2. Trade for Fowler giving up Worley, May, and another prospect. New leadoff man and starter in CF (Pencil him at $4M or so that leaves $10M)
3. Sign a veteran FA reliever setup man ($5-$6M)
4. Look for a veteran starter via trade (e.g., Capuano) or a guy like Blanton ($4-5M)

It doesn't give the Phils the corner OF who hits RHP with power but so be it.

The one piece I do agree on in this article is signing a guy like Youkilis is a must. True competitor, right handed bat, fills a huge hole at 3B. If you can get him for something like 2 years and $20M then get this done already. OF seems a little trickier to figure out. At least you can start the season with Ruf, Dom Brown, cross your fingers and reassess mid season. Frandsen, however, is not the answer at 3B.

This is really stupid, Mays ceiling is most like to be a is a solid #3 - #4 guy and Worley is a solid #4 and both are young, trade them for a just above mediocre 33 or 34 year old OF when we are obviously trying to get young and nearly half his homers came against a pretty bad pitching division that hes in.Halladay and Lee arent getting younger worley and may are our future not to mention our farm is lacking enough in just AA talent.

MG - I don't think letting Worley go in a deal weakens the staff as much as you think it would. Kendrick is a more than capable 4th starter and the fifth starter can be filled internally by Cloyd/Pettibone or a scrap heap signing.

Now if one of the Big 3 goes down with an injury like Doc did last year, shifting around the pitching staff could take a little more creativity.

That strategy does bank heavily on the quartet of Nix/Mayberry/Brown/Ruf to man the corner OF spots and doesn't give the Phils much flexibility to say under the luxury tax threshold during the year.

That's really the kicker. Amaro has too many holes to fill if the Phils aren't willing to go over the cap a bit this year. Given that they have the TV coming up in 2 years, I do think they might go over the cap at the trading deadline if they really need a piece but won't go into the season over it.

Everyone is talking offense, but the Phillies' real weakness last season was the eighth inning. Even with Doc pitching injured, then sidelined, and Worley out of shape and pitching with a bone spur causing him to lose his two seamer, if they'd only held on in 2/3 of the eighth innings they blew, we'd be having an entirely different conversation.

How about Uehara AND Adams, then trade some prospects for Fowler to put at the top of the order.

Even with the lousy lineup the Phillies ran out there last season, they were a competent bullpen away from competing for a playoff spot. There is no reason to overreact and start trying to beef up the offense at the expense of the pitching that will allow them to compete again.

And people are having a heart attack over Frandsen at third. The Phillies went an entire season with Polly working with three limbs and unable to hit, Wigginton being a cardboard cutout on defense and Fontenot kicking balls around in his short stint. Frandsen, even if he's a mediocre fielder and hits a significant amount less than last year would be a slight improvement over all of that. And it should be noted that for part of that time, he was playing on a fractured fibula. Not weight bearing, but still plenty painful.

I'm pretty sure Rube will jump in with a last second panic move, but fixing the pen would do more than any offense he could add at this point. And there is no way Ryan Howard will be as bad this year as he was last year coming off a horrendous injury.

"I'd rather see a full season of Ruf and Dom Brown then commit to any more irresponsible long term contracts for mid tier guys and suffer for years"

This isn't necessarily an unjustified opinion to have. The issue is you don't go far enough. If you're going to do it, then you need to just go ahead and sell Lee, Halladay, and Rollins, and rebuild for real. Otherwise, you're just treading water in mediocrity.

This is an 80-85 win team. You either improve it to try and make the playoffs at 90 wins, or you sell it and start over. Sitting at 80 wins is the worst possible place to be in all of baseball.

I think trading for oldsters is not a prescription for a winning formula. Two of the three players are 33 now. Bourn is 29 and his OBP is just marginally better than Rollins (always a problem). And the price is Vance (who when healthy has proved that he belongs) and May who may or may not work out but its giving up on a potential No. 3 starter. Cloyd has shown us that he is on the margins. I guess this is one more try with the rest of the fading all-stars? What's the point? This is RAJ trying to rescue RAJ but not a GM trying to build a contender. I think he is digging himself into a bigger hole.

I like the idea of trading for older players because (1) they don't cost much and (2) they are more reliable. But what's really important as well is that they aren't big commitments. Guys like Soriano or Willingham or Youk would be 2 year commitments.

Who had the worse offseason so far? The $75M SF spent on Affeldt/Scutaro/Pagan or the $90M Boston spent on Vic/Gomes/Napoli. Geez.

This is arguably the dumbest post I've ever read. How would Bourne and Youk solve our problems.

Anyone going after Bourne will over pay because of his agent, and after having a stand out start to the season he was absolutely horrific in the second half, especially down the stretch. As a lead-off hitter, he still strikes out 140+ times a year. Our best option was Pagan, a 10 mil a year true lead off hitter that could hit 290 and 25-30 bases.

Youk - are you kidding, an aging (poorly) 3rd baseman to an already old infield who hasnt played more than 130 games in the last 3 years have seen his number drop off dramatically. His BA has been dropping to a career low and, what used to be his most attractive quality was he could make the pitcher throw pitches and got on base - his OBP has also been declining rapidly.

Both would not only be a waste of money and years, would be a terrible addition to a team who is full of K's and doesnt get on base.

Jack is right. 80, 81 or 82 win seasons are the worst and each number carries its own line of BS into the offseason.

Apparently Gomez defenses publishing the Lee-Upton "rumor" because it was discussed internally on one side. Wow.

I cringe at the thought of Cloyd be given 30 starts as the #5 starter. No thanks.

Nice post, Corey. Youk is sort of the "nice-to-have" option in this trio. Without him, this doesn't have the same stench of overpaying for older players who are close to the finish line. Willingham would be a major difference maker from the right side, and if they also inject Bourn's tools into the offense, the Phils would almost certainly default to an all-glove third baseman. I bet Galvis would get the majority of reps.


LF....Greene Jr.

REALLY!Who knows how Valle and Joseph will be situated.Maybe Ruf fails,Josrph converts to 1b and,Valle is our C, but our farm has to be one of the worst, we'll have to rely on FA acquisitions or we will suck and draft AAA talent in the draft in a few years.Age will.cstch up to our guys sooner rather than later

If we're looking for a cheap, vetern, right-handed power-hitting corner OF, then why exactly aren't we trying to sign Ryan Ludwick away from the Reds?

Last I heard was that the Reds were offering 2/14. Would anyone have a problem with the Phils topping that at 2/16?

Of course, it's possible that Ludwick just likes Cincinnati and wants to play there.

im using my phone to type, sorry for typos.

" just above mediocre 33 or 34 year old OF when we are obviously trying to get young and nearly half his homers came against a pretty bad pitching division that hes in."

This is an all-time dumb argument. 7 straight years of .800+ OPS is "just above mediocre?" And doesn't EVERY hitter hit most of his homeruns against bad pitching? In Willingham's case, he also homered off C.J. Wilson, Jered Weaver, Cole Hamels, CC Sabathia, Aroldis Chapman, and Doug Fister.

Also, while it might be accurate to say that Trevor May's ceiling is as a No. 3, it's also a woefully incomplete statement. Lots of minor league pitchers have a ceiling as a No. 3. The more salient issue is: how likely is he to actually reach that ceiling -- or even to be a viable big league pitcher? Considering that he has been absolutely wretched in 2 out of his last 3 seasons, I'd say the odds are pretty slim.

I like the plan. As usual, JW comes up with achievable results to discuss instead of mindlessly carping at current reality.

Hardest part to achieve may be Youklis. I've seen a few reports saying that he is aiming at only Boston or Cleveland.

The sad thing about this plan is that we could have acquired Willingham as a FA if we had not overvalued Mayberry's everday potential and Brown's readiness.

The good thing about this approach is it allows Ruf to develop more full time in AAA and platoon Mayberry and Brown in RF. Nix slides to 5th OF. Downside is that if Ruf displays surprising, resilient hitting strength, you wouldn't have a position to slot/platoon him in with Willingham unable to play RF.

I like Sophist's alternative, and the small benefit of Swisher would be to free up a possible LF platoon spot for Ruf.

Solid post, Corey, and very reasonable.

My worries: 5th starter? Cloyd isn't the guy, in my mind. So now we're spending on a stop gap. It also doesn't address the 8th inning and I have my concerns about Bastardo and Aumont (both of whom I like, but they just haven't harnessed their stuff enough yet).

There's a lot I don't like about Bourn, but he's a great defensive CF and a terror on the basepaths. His OBP is solid despite the Ks. I just don't want to overpay for him.

bay_area_phan: I'm, frankly, surprised anyone took the time to smack down that comment. But well done!

Yeah signing Youkilis isn't ideal but who plays 3B then? Phils really should spend $5-$6M on Keppinger for at least 2 years?

Maybe you gamble on Chavez (another old guy who has been incredibly brittle during his career) as a stop-gap at $2-3M.

Frandsen sucks offensively and defensively at 3B. Hell, Bill James has Frandsen at this projection:

.283/.321/.374 (.695 OPS) with 2 HR in 265 PAs next year.

This is very optimistic and above his career MLB numbers. My bet is that he is likely to be .260/.310/.360. That's tolerable for a bench player but certainly doesn't add much offensively and when you take into account his defense its pretty crappy.

I see that Willingham produces but, he us just another old man.Who knows if he can hit 35 hrs again at his age, guys at his age are at the middle process of declining.No.way I want him for what we'd be trading.

JJG - This was a Corey post. Corey joins BL from the team, where he also writes about the Phils. He's a terrific addition.

I thinking dumping Worley at this point would not be worth it. I think it shows the Phillies are not content with keeping solid pitching but doing whatever it takes to produce runs. Worley is a proven starter at this point, pitching wins games, and a a combination of lengthy starts, run production and solid D wins championships. I would rather keep Worley then bring in Bourne, Willingham and Youk and expect them to be able to hit the NL East pitchers.

These aren't bush league pithers like the AL Central and NL Central. I love Frandsen, and I think at this point you dump every dime into Hamilton if anything.

How is Worley a 'proven starter' though or a guy who works deep into games?

He's a guy that through his 46 career starts has averaged under 6 IP/start (~5.9 IP/GS).

Wait another year and to see what he does over 28-30 starts before anointing him as a 'proven starter' too. He's only thrown ~130 IP the last 2 years.

"guys at his age are at the middle process of declining."

Some are, some aren't. A guy who's coming off his career-best year obviously isn't in the middle of declining. I can understand the argument that we shouldn't be giving up prospects or giving out expensive long-term deals for players who will help us in the short term but hurt us in the longer term. But May barely even qualifies as a prospect at this point, and Willingham has a short, inexpensive deal. Anyone who wouldn't make this trade is either totally delusional about Trevor May's future, or would simply prefer for the Phillies to suck next year.

Of course, it's all kind of moot because there's no way in the world the Twins would trade Willingham for Trevor May.

I'd rather see Keppinger than Youkilis. He's younger, less expensive and he can play 2B when Utley is out/gone. Love Willingham. In fact, I called Rube and told him to get Willingham. He misunderstood me and got Wigginton instead.

We HAVE to get someone who can pitch a boring 8th inning. I can't take all the drama from that position any more.

"and nearly half [Willingham's] homers came against a pretty bad pitching division that hes in."

In the AL Central, he had 45% of his ABs and 35% of his HRs.

We need to get younger. I keep seeing names like Bourjos and Fowler pop up but with nothing solid behind them. I might be way off here but I feel like Dexter Fowler and John Mayberry are very similar. I sure wouldn't trade prospects for John Mayberry.

In the not too distant past 35 year old ballplayers were right in their prime. Now it seems like they are in the twilight of their careers just like when I was a kid.

Strange. Wonder what happened?


Forget he threw 50.1 IP at Lehigh in '11. So that gave him roughly ~183 IP over 30 starts in '11.

Threw a total of 171 IP in '10 between Reading/Lehigh/Philly over 30 starts.

A bit more durable than I thought after a second look. Want to see what he can do over a full MLB season though (28-30 GS, 180-190 IP).

our farm is,X years away and our team is old, we cant afgord to trade prospects and we owe a loy of money to old injury prone under performing players so its tough to make transactions.somethings got to give.

***That means that you could be at $171 million and technically be at or over the tax threshold. ***

Add about $10-11 million just for medical benefits...which puts you slightly over before even factoring in 40 man roster costs and player bonuses.

Not a huge concern but $170 in base salary means you're over the cap. Anything over around $165 in base salary puts you right up against the luxury tax.

I think Jack's argument is right on point.

There are two ways to "get younger". You can "get younger" in the long run by drafting and developing well. Alternatively, you can "get younger" in the short run by trading your useful veterans for unproven young players.

The Phillies cannot "get younger" this offseason without punting the next few seasons and rebuilding. There is no move that allows them to "get younger" and still contend. Maybe "getting younger" is the right move, but if you're advocating a youth movement, you need to drop any pretense of contending in '13.

l disagree, Bourn has had no bites cause he's asking way-too much, Willingham could be a gamble and Youk, if you wish to pay that much for a part-time 3rd baseman, sounds crazy too... How about Michael Young from Texas for 3rd base ( who also happens to play most infield positions and the outside corners ), if they can get him away from the Rangers ( shouldnt be hard ) l would rather have BJ's brother from Arizona, then Bourn, and l would only take Willingham, if there were no other choices.. we still need late inning relief.... so we cant spend it all......

Lorecore, Jack, BAP:
Thanks for clarifying on the Schierholtz question, as you said I was off on the premise. (partly why I asked in the 1st place, to get understanding why it wasn't done.)

amaro, should sign reynolds and young, reynoldd hits for power and we need it, even if he Ks a lot raj said as long as they produce hes fine with Ks.Young is young and is and average hitter with average power and good speed.

Try convincing Brian Wilson, see how he reacts from Tj surgery to a 2 yr deal, he said hes done with SF.

Did this get posted on

Yanks are now possibly in on Youkilis because of the ARod injury. Ugh. He's probably going get 3 yrs/$27-30M or so which is almost certainly a poor value signing.

I don't get what the Indians are trying to do at all this offseason. On one hand they have been trying to trade Choo and Cabrera very hard along with a few other players on the block while at the same time making deals like the 4 yrs/$44M to Vic and supposedly going after Youkilis hard.

Understand the Youkilis a bit with Francona as the manager there now but they have been the most schizophrenic team this offseason so far.

erick: you need some practice typing on your phone. Whatever sane thought you had just autocorrected to say that amaro should sign Mark Reynolds and trade for Michael Young.

I usually comment fairly regularly during the season but have not participated in the hot stove discussions before. Is it always this intriguing? It really does seem as though the stakes are especially high for RAJ and the Phillies this offseason.

Doubt Youk gets three years let alone $10M for each. ~2/20 for Youk.

***Ugh. He's probably going get 3 yrs/$27-30M or so which is almost certainly a poor value signing. ***

Then just give Keppinger the 3/12 he wants and move on.

At worst, you have a slightly overpaid utility infielder in the 3rd year of that deal.

no delmon young.

***Is it always this intriguing? It really does seem as though the stakes are especially high for RAJ and the Phillies this offseason.***

Yes, yes it is. BL is far more interesting in the off-season than during the regular season.

Kinda like Madden is more fun for the off-season moves/drafting than actually playing the games themselves.

***erick: you need some practice typing on your phone. Whatever sane thought you had just autocorrected to say that amaro should sign Mark Reynolds and trade for Michael Young.***

Post of the Day.

I'm very surprised at the support Youklis is receiving here. This is a guy clearly in big-time decline -- that mushrooming K rate, worsening range factor on defense, and of course, the drop in his traditional stats, all portend a guy who's washed up. Plus, he's been hurt every year for the last three!

I honestly think there's a better chance that Frandsen keeps some of the improvements he showed in a third of a season last year and ends up somewhere around a league average third baseman than that Youk turns his numbers around and ends up better than that. Frandsen surely is a better glove, and is much much cheaper, younger, and requires no commitment.

I think they should try to eke out a decent season from Frandsen, and if he doesn't hit, try Josh Fields, who mashed last year (at altitude), and if that fails, hope for Asche to hit and call him up in July. In between, use the steroid-pumped slugging Babe Galvis.

I think this Youklis money is better spent elsewhere, like the 8th inning. I hate Youklis for this old team.

Delmon Young & Mark Reynolds are young, alright. That's about the only thing that either has going for him, though.

Question for the group:

If you could get Hamilton for 3/75 and Keppinger for 3/12, would you make those moves to fill our lineup holes?

It'd put them about $5-10 million over the luxury tax without another move being made ($144 M + $25 M + $4 M = $173 M base salary for the 25 man)

***I'm very surprised at the support Youklis is receiving here***

I was once stationed on a base overseas where there were about 1200 personnel...of that 1200 personnel, about 75 were female...of that 75, maybe 15 were even decent looking in the real world.

All 75 women could have sex with a large majority of those men if they so desired as basically there were no other options for those men.

Its the same concept here.

Yeah I really don't want Youkilis at all. I'd rather see them take the risk of just rolling with Asche from spring training than getting even older.

Yes, NEPP I'd do those two moves. I have been a big fan of Keppinger and if you can get Hamilton for only 3 years (will there be options for a 4th?) I'd definitely do it.

reynolds will get 25-30 hrs a year at the hot corner and delmon young is better thsn all of our OFs.They are cheaper.but it will cost picks.I wish RAJ goes for the.

I ment Delmon Young.

NEPP, yeah, I'd do that. I'm okay with going over the tax threshold by a few bucks next year (at the first time offenders rate), considering what's coming off the books and the higher threshold the following year.

Frankly, I don't see how the Phillies field a team with ANY of these possibilities being floated around without either mortgaging what little future may live in the farm system and/or exceeding the tax threshold. Your hypothetical is more digestable than some of the others being floated around (especially if you can get Hamilton on just a 3 year deal).

Though, as I'm often reminded, it's not my money or my tax to pay...

Sophist: Please understand that Jack hated Howard long before he signed the big contract.

Go back and read his pre-contract posts.

NEPP: Are you sure Keppinger will be ready by season's start?

Asche has under 300 ABs above class A ball and you want to pencil him in at third already? I want the kid to do well too, but wow, do you want a second division team next season or a team that contends? Because sticking Asche at third and hoping for the best isn't a way to contend.

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EST. 2005

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