Part of CSNPhilly.com


« Beer nuts: Oh goodie, the hot stove is burning again | Main | Minors: 18 Phillies declared free agents »

Monday, November 05, 2012

Comments

No to Upton. No, no, no to Upton. And I seem to be in the minority in my thinking that 5/$60 is not a good deal. I don't think he has done enough to warrant $12M AAV. I also don't think, regardless of contract, he is a good fit for this team.

It feels like we say this every November, but it's going to be an interesting off-season. They're still a contender that needs to fill a few holes. How Rube fills those holes will be fun to watch. There are so many question marks (both injury and ineffectiveness) that the need for back-up plans is intensified.

Should be fun, as always.

csnphilly has Scott Hairston as a FA worth looking into.

If Jeff Conine has taught me anything, its that Phillie Killers will continue to kill the phillies even when they become one.

If the Phillies sign Scott Hairston someone will have to show Cholly how to platoon.

A quick audit of minor league teams that maintain the name of their parent affiliate:

AAA
Pawtucket (Red Sox)
Scranton Wilkes-Barre (Yankees)
Gwinnett (Braves)
Iowa (Cubs)
Tucson (Padres)

AA
Binghamton (Mets)
Mississippi (Braves)
Springfield (Cardinals)
San Jose (Giants)

A - Advanced
Dunedin (Blue Jays)
Tampa (Yankees)
Daytona (Cubs)
St. Lucie (Mets)
Palm Beach (Cardinals)
Salem (Red Sox)
Potomac (Nationals)

A-Low
Rome (Braves)
Staten Island (Yankees)

Every team in Appalachian League (10 teams)

Random Short Season Teams
Connecticut (Tigers)
Helena (Brewers)
Grand Junction (Rockies)

This BJ Upton thing is going to be bad. Low on base percentage guys in the Phils lineup are a bad thing. Hell, if you want power from the right side, why not see if the Cubs will eat almost all of Soriano's contract?

That sounds stupid too, right? Yep, because so is the Upton idea.

Potomic (Nationals)

Is that where Domonic Brown is from? :)

Only a handful (Pawtucket, San Jose, Iowa, Tampa) have a meaningful legacy with the nickname. Reading's 46-year relationship is the longest-standing affiliation in the minors.

Reading Phillies was never a name that made sense, other than affiliation. Would make more sense if they were called the Reading Readies.

Agreed no on Upton. He just doesn't appear to have the right temperament or makeup or whatever to succeed in Philadelphia.

I kinda like Reading Readies.

gm-carson: if soriano was 28yr old and played CF, it wouldn't be stupid at all.

I keep bouncing back and forth on Upton. Losing the 1st round pick, while the Phils pick position is kind of a lottery ticket pick, does give me pause, on top of the other potential issues.

There's been a lot written about poor on-base skills and the trend is not good in his career, but the league average OBP has dropped a fair amount in his career.


Year / LgAvg / Delta
2012 / .320 / -22
2011 / .323 / +8
2010 / .327 / -5
2009 / .336 / -23
2008 / .336 / +47
2007 / .338 / +48

It's hard to know what's a normal year for this guy. :(

No on Scott Hairston. The presence of John Mayberry and Darin Ruf erases him as any type of asset.

for what it's worth, Keith Law has Upton as his #2 FA of the winter behind Greinke and ahead of Hamilton.

Soriano would potentially be a nice fit in LF as a power bat to hit 5th/6th but I wonder how much the Cubs would be willing to eat on his $36M remaining ($18M this year and next).

Plus, he is an out-machine too. For all of the griping about Upton's low OBP, Soriano's is .312 the last 3 years. Upton was .317.

Phils can afford to add one guy to their lineup like that if he provides power. It would be helpful if they could add another who would at least post a .350 OBP or so and take some BBs.

One thing I really hope Brown does this year is be a guy who gets on base. It wouldn't be ideal to get 10-15 HRs from a corner OF but it would be nice if he could hit ~.260 and get on base near a ~.350 OBP clip.

How about the "Reading Rainbows"? They could make there mascot a butterfly and they would be all set!

Reading Rainbows


They could hire LeVar Burton to be their mascot. My bet is that his calendar is free.

I wouldn't be opposed to Soriano if Chicago paid most of his salary and took little back in terms of a prospect.

DAMNIT...how the hell did Reverend beat me to that obvious post.


Well done, sir!

They could do the Reading Rainbow theme song sing-along every 7th inning stretch.

I'm of the mind that the Phils' need for everyday power outweighs the on-base drawbacks.

Yeah, the whole "smallball" plan didnt exactly work out too well in 2012. I was happy that Pierre had as good a year as he did but we need some power in the lineup.

for what it's worth, Keith Law has Upton as his #2 FA of the winter behind Greinke and ahead of Hamilton.

That's because Keith Law "hates" the Phillies and wants Upton overvalued so the Phils throw money at him. Then, Law can wring his hands while laughing maniacally at his triumph.

I seem to be one of the biggest backers of Upton amongst posters, but I will admit that I in no way think he is the perfect acquisition. There are a decent amount of "creative" ways to get better players than Upton through infinite amount of speculative trades and increases in payroll, but when I look at the players who are said to be available, Upton just seems like the best possible player when compared to everyone else.

JW, I'm of the mind that more offense outweighs what form it takes.

Like Upton too the most out of all of the CF options.

Still have no idea how Amaro fills the starter job at 3B via a trade. That might just be the rabbit of out of the hat he can't pull & the Phils are forced to stop-gap it the first half of the year.

Still wouldn't mind Vic back here but only on a 1-year deal. Beneficial to both parties under that scenario at say 1 yr/$8-$9M with some incentives.

Not sure if he is one of those players who just is done as an everyday regular by 32-33 or still has another 2-3 productive years in him.

Why not the Reading Is Fundamentals? The Phillies could make their new theme "Bad at Baseball, but skilled in Literacy!"

Interesting to look at Upton's 2012 stats. His BB% took a huge dive from his career norm--all of his OBP dip is due to that. His K rate, though high, was stable from previous years. His HR/FB% ticked up three points; it's increased every year with the exception of the crazy 2007. What all this means I have no idea, but I'd be interested to see what the projection models have to say about him.

Im much more inclined to bring back victorino on a 3 year deal for 15-21 mil and let brown and ruf get a shot in the corners- then use the extra money to solidify 3rd base/ bullpen

Because the Phils already have a 'Plan C' ready to go to fill every need (3B = Frandsen/Galvis ; CF = Nate/Mayberry platoon ; Corner OF = Nix/Ruf/Brown ; BP = fill it up with our live, young arms), Rube could conceivably wait-out the market, and sign the bargains that fall through the cracks.
Then, in May/June/July, Rube could aggressively use the trade market (even if it means taking on salary) to fill the specific needs that will undoubtedly arise.

Bonehead - I'm sure Ruben will do that with at least one, maybe two of those positions - but it would be very risky to have to rely on a deadline trade for their nig needs. Way too many moving parts, plenty of which are out of Ruben's own control.

Only 99 days until Pitchers and Catchers report, according to Phils' Facebook page. Heck we are almost there!

Forget who it was, but someone made the good point a couple threads ago that on top of the on-field needs, one of RAJ's responsibilities is a "splash" signing or trade that will juice the fanbase and build excitement*. Particularly given the collapse last year, I don't think it's a realistic approach from a marketing perspective to just kind of wait around reactively and make some low-profile/marginal moves. Not to mention, just from a baseball standpoint, the team really does need talent. There will be a marquee deal.

*Whether this is actually necessary, or whether a big-name signing really does drive sales, doesn't really matter--clearly it's believed to be necessary, by Rube most of all.

Im much more inclined to bring back victorino on a 3 year deal for 15-21 mil and let brown and ruf get a shot in the corners- then use the extra money to solidify 3rd base/ bullpen

That would be a great plan is money could solve the 3rd base problem.

"if money could solve" I mean

2011 Phils were middle of the pack in AVG OBP and SLG, so its not like they need to truly "focus" on one aspect over another. And for all the badmouthing on Upton's K%, the Phils struck out less than every team in the NL last year - they can afford it.

If Rube waits or strikes early, I don't care. So long as he makes the right moves, nad puts the best team on the field he can.

I'm mixed on Upton as well now. But they need pop. Ruf has it but he's unproven. I like Pagan, but does that mean they go out and sign another guy to play LF? or RF & trade Brown so Ruf gets the chance?

And if they only get 1 OF'der and it is Pagan, what are they doing @ 3rd? There's no pop there.

Here's the problem with Upton and it's more about J-Roll than Upton. Upton has a tendency to take plays off now and then. If he's on a team with J-Roll and his lackadaisical attitude at times, what do you think will happen with Upton? DUH?

lorecore- they also took walks near the bottom of the NL too. Phils used to be great at getting on base and putting opposing pitchers in stressful sitations with high pitch counts. That's far from the case anymore.

That has less to do with who they lost over the years (Werth being one case) and what's happened to the players that are still with the team. The drop in walks has a lot to do with the loss of playing time and/or production from Howard and Utley.

carson: Agreed.

2011 NL walk rate: 7.9%
Upton career: 10.6%

Upton covers ground in CF. Phils need that if they a serious about playing Ruf in LF. His OBP stat is not great, but who knows what could happen with a new team, new hitting instructor. His defense with pop is probably what interests Phils brass most, though.

re: Rollins/Upton and effort- I'd rather have Jimmy Rollins than David Eckstein.

But Eckstein has more rings than jroll!

So Taguchi has more rings than Ted Williams...thus he is a better LF.

Probably because Ted Williams didn't run out that one popup one time. What good is a .400 AVG if you only max out your home to first time 99.9% of your at bats?

Rollins takes plays off? Where is this garbage coming from?

Oh nvm. It's Upton who 'takes plays off' and J-Roll's 'lackadaisical attitude' will be a bad influence on him.

In other news, a dog whistles somewhere.

'Lack of hustle' is a lame excuse not to be interested in Upton. More legit ones are this his defense numbers have been trending downward in CF and Upton is swinging a lot more including at pitches out of the strike zone.

He's hitting more HRs but his %K rate has increased a bit as well as his swing & miss rate.

Iceman: You forgot that Ryan Howard is too "lazy" to learn how to layoff the slider.

re: reading phillies name change

pretty lame, but not sure it hurts anything too much. It will sort of damage their reputation as one of last 'original' farm teams even though their affiliation will not change, especially if they end up going for a bizarre made-up animal species, or one of those non-pluralized team names like "the Reading Rush",etc.

Interesting, the company responsible for handling the name change process is here in town. I wonder if I can hack into their system and change things around so the Reading Rainbows would be something more than just a great idea... one can dream, right?

I find it interesting that the agency brags about how they revamped the Cincinnati Reds. According to the Cincy Uniform History page ( http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/cin/history/uniforms_logos.jsp ) they haven't done anything since 2000. Looks like it's time that the Reading Phillies get radically transformed into something more modern and new age, like the PRillies.

As a Reading native, and one who tries to get back a few times a year to visit family, I can say that Reading Rainbows, while cheeky and clever, couldn't be any more ironic. Let's just say that there's not a whole lot of rainbows and unicorns in the greater Reading metro area...

My nostalgia led me to sign this - https://www.change.org/petitions/reading-phillies-do-not-change-your-club-name, though I'm sure it's a moot point. Money, as always, will win out, and we'll have some quirky new brand to invest in in just a couple of short weeks.

Peralta got 2 yrs/$6M from the Rays with an option for $2.5M in '15 at 39. Notable raise from his $2.175M salary last year.

If that is any indication, FA market for veteran middle relievers will be up a bit this year from the last 2 seasons. Going to be really tough to find a solid value sign at just $1M or $1.5M.

Just a question of whether Amaro decides to throw ~$4.5-5M or so at a veteran RHP reliever like Adams, KRod, or Farnsworth.

Come on, just get Tori Hunter fro a year or two and, if needed, Vic can play center.

The Reading Pagodas? The Vapors Turning Japanese as their new ballpark theme?

In defense of MG, his comments about the Reading Phillies name change are tame compared to those in the Reading Eagle.

To gain sponsorship money, how about The Berks Hot Dogs.

MG: $4-5M for KRod?

Heyman reports Pence, who aksmith has repeatedly stated will be dumped by the Giants, is going to be tendered a contract around ~12 million. In MG's book I guess he 'hit' on that prediction.

Iceman: If they stay at $12M, they'll be going to arb in February.

Peralta last 3 seasons:

183.2 IP, .909 WHIP, 9.5 K/9, 2.2 BB/9 and a 2.94 ERA.

Well worth a 2yr/$6M commitment to me.

With sincere apologies to a poster above who suggests the Reading Readies, I'm on board for only one scenario that works for me: they must hire Randy....yes, Ready to manage the team.

If Randy Ready is hired to manage the team, can they change their names to the Reading Randies?

Areeeeeeeee you reeeeeeeeeady for Randyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys Randieeeeeeeeeeeees? And then, the entrance blast, of course, with a fog machine.

lorecore: you're probably right. I don't see what that has to do with aksmith saying they wouldn't offer him a contract.

Iceman - Yeah. Go look at what setup guys have gotten the past 2 years. Been $4-$5M/year.

KRod isn't going to get closer's money again ($8M like he did last year) but he is still arguably one of the 2-3 best setup veteran relieves available on the market.

The Giants simply have no choice but to pay Pence. Right now, he's literally their only outfielder.

And, in fairness, I would think the Giants are capable of seeing past 2 bad months. As much as he is reviled on Beerleague, Pence is a career .813 OPS hitter and is still young. It seems likely that he'll bounce back and put up normal numbers next year -- in which case, a $12 to $14M price tag will not be terribly out of line with his worth.

"KRod isn't going to get closer's money again ($8M like he did last year) but he is still arguably one of the 2-3 best setup veteran relieves available on the market."

Arguably in this sentence is not needed. This is Beerleaguer. Everything is arguable. On BL, "Mike Trout had a good rookie year" is agrguable.

R-Phils new name:

Either a lame animal name to fit in with most of the other Eastern League clubs and a new mascot or something train-related (Reading Conductors, Engineers, Train Part). I just hope it isn't the 'Reading Locos' or 'Reading Choo-Choos'

Who needs a 3B? I have been watching some video of Rolen and Schmidt and I am going to be a human vacuum cleaner next year there. My other secret is that I am going to lead MLB baseball in bunt-base hits and be Henderson-esque on the basepaths.

The Reading Railroad, with the guy from monopoly as the mascot, or the thimble - either or.

The Reading Rodents!

I wonder if one of the flaws in this debate over Upton (and while I don't want him I think some of the naysayers are way too negative) is that everyone on this blog assumes it's impossible to trade for a starting CF so it's either Upton or bust.

The Reading Glasses?

Shoutout to MPNPhilly for referencing a 1980 one-hit wonder by The Vapors.

Peter Bourjos

Clout: who do you think they should trade for and what do you think it would cost? I'm open to the idea, in part because Upton's going to cost a draft pick (our 1st?). I think the 4 guys that have been mention here previously are Coco Crisp, Peter Bourjos, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Dexter Fowler.

The Reading Terminal Markets.......talk about a sponsor!!!

MG- I never said anything about K-Rod, other than that you thought he was washed up last year.

How 'bout:
1-The Reading Glasses
2-The Reading Writing and Arithmetics
3-The Reading Fundimentals

The Reading FirstEnergies
The Reading Citizens Banks

Plus new uniforms with more corporate sponsorships plastered on them than a NASCAR driver's racing suit!

The opposition to BJ Upton has me scratching my head. I mean is there a CF who has a .380 OBP and an .850 or better OPS out there for the Phillies to get? No. There is no perfect acquisition.

Bourn will cost too much and his OBP isn't that great. Bourjos would be intriguing but he may not be going anywhere now that Torii Hunter won't be back in Anaheim - and who knows what the Angels would want in return? Swisher would be a nice fit with the Phillies offense in many ways, but would that mean that either Mayberry or Brown is our everyday guy in center?

BJ Upton is still young, he's very athletic, he covers a lot of ground and he hit 28 home runs last year. Sometimes young, talented guys can be "coached up" a bit to overcome their deficiencies. That seems like a risk worth taking to me - especially since you get a plus defender with 30-HR power anyway.

The Phillies need more offense, more right handed power and more good players, period. Sign Upton.

John Bowker won an Outstanding Player Award for his part in the Yomiuri Giants' Japan Series victory. Hit 2 Homers in the series including a 5 RBI performence in Game One.

Haas - What about Vic? Similar overall offensive output (though different in the particulars) for likely much less $$ and years?

I don't prefer those other options to Upton.

My own personal preference:
1. Vic, but only if on a 1 or 2 year deal that frees up $ for 3B
2. Upton
3. a trade that voids us of young pitching (Worley/KK or one of the young 'pen guys)
.
.
.
18ish. Bourn

To further clarify, I would not consider Vic, at all, on more than a 1 or 2 year deal.

clout: Yes, left unsaid was that the song was not in fact about changing races, but in fact was apparently about, er, "self gratification." Then again, it is Berks County.

I guess Victorino on a one-year deal could make sense. I like Victorino personally but I saw a guy who was greatly diminished as a lefthanded hitter this past season. I really like Upton's upside and have this dream of uniting him with Justin Upton in our outfield starting in 2014.
Lots of predictions of Victorino to the Braves. I will hate that but I think cutting the cord with him was the right move strategically.

How 'bout:
1-The Reading Glasses
2-The Reading Writing and Arithmetics
3-The Reading Fundimentals

Er, make that Fundamentals. Type in haste, repent in leisure.

great, great news, sarge matthews one of 5 finalists to replace bob brenly as cus color man,hopefully good riddance.

that is cubs color man. either way, i hope he is gone.

Jumbo Jim Nash, do you have a link?

Even more importantly, to whom can I address a letter of recommendation?

hardball talk, csn chicago.

Losing Sarge would be a upgrade by default. I just can't see him doing a full-game though as a color guy.

Can we trade Sarge & Tmac for Soriano and his entire contract? Totally worth it.

the 5 finalists are, sutcliffe, hollandsworth, plesac, karros, and sarge.

I'd rather see T-Mac leave before Sarge. Don't get me wrong, I think Sarge is a dope, but he doesn't grate on my nerves the same way T-Mac does.

Sarge only wears you out for a couple of innings a game. TBag is a constant onslaught of vapid unentertaining diarrhea of the mouth. Losing either is automatic addition-by-subtraction (unless McCarver were a replacement...).

That said, if the Cubs value actual talent and a prepared color guy, putting Karros and Sarge in the same sentence is blasphemy. Karros is no gem, but he's light years above the Mini Mart of color commentating that is Sarge Matthews.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories

HardballTalk

Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel

CSG