Part of

« Update: Phils decline options on Contreras, Wigginton | Main | Beer nuts: Oh goodie, the hot stove is burning again »

Tuesday, October 30, 2012


The lesson to take away from the Polanco contract is don't give a three year contract to an older player unless you are prepared to cover the cost of one or two unproductive years due to injuries or a decline in performance. In Polly they got a couple arguably good years and one putrid year. Think Torii Hunter. Two year contract: ok. Three year contract: not ok.

My source inside the Phillies FO confirms that we're targetting Vic with the hopes of resigning Polanco for cheap bench guy. Going to talk to KC about their young hitters. They need pitchers, we need hitters.

Could have done a lot worse than Polly. And aside of Beltre, couldn't have done much better in 2010.

But the extra year on the contract was stupid.

"But the extra year on the contract was stupid."

What basis is there for concluding they gave Polanco an extra year, i.e., that he would have signed here or elsewhere for 2 years? curious if that's fact or fiction.

Rule of thumb - to get the player you want, you usually have to go a year too long and about 20% more than you want to pay.

Polanco was a solid signing. He'd been durable before his stint with the Phils; you can't kill RAJ for not realizing he'd physically go to pieces midway through the contract.

DPatrone - where are we getting these pitchers that KC will take for their young hitters? Unless you're dealing Worley, we don't have much to offer that's MLB-ready. I suppose you could snag Jeff Francoeur for Kyle Kendrick, but why bother?

My sources tell me your sources are full of :hit.

I like Mike Moustakas, the young Kansas City 3B. He'll be 24 next year, and after two poor months to close 2012, his price tag might have come down a lot. Even if he repeats his 2012 numbers (.242/.708, 20 HR/75 RBI), he'd be a serious offensive upgrade over any in-house options and worth any pitcher on the depth chart. I don't think his glove is very good though.

But of course that's not to say the Royals want anything we have. I simply like the idea of Moustakas.

Colonel Tom: bingo! Worley is being brought up. makes sense though with how well kk pitched last year. Vic and polly aren't so bad when you're saving money.

DPatrone: Why would your sources tell you anything if you knew you were gonna leak it on beerleaguer? Why wouldn't they just leak it to the press, then? And if you actually had a source, what kind of friend are you to betray their trust like that? Plus, why would he resign Polanco when we already have Frandsen and neither of them can really play SS?

Epicurean: Moustakas' current value is deried almost entirely from him elite-level defense. The offense is really all projection based on outstanding minor league scouting reports and his still young age. Right now, he's Pedro Feliz, only young and left-handed.

Pedro Feliz's Phillies OPS: .699

Placido Polanco's OPS in his 2nd stint with the Phillies: .686.

We could have done worse, but this was a bad signing. At the time of the signing, there was already abundant evidence that Polanco was in decline. And the deal doesn't look any better in hindsight. We basically got one "good" year out of Polanco -- if you consider a .726 OPS to be good.

Ben: Could be. If he is as elite of a defender as you say, then it shows you how much I know about the guy. He sure looks promising on paper offensively though. And for what it's worth, I would take c. 2009 Feliz over Galvis and/or Frandsen.

I would call the Ibanez deal a success and the Polanco deal a failure because of the ease at which a left-fielder can play a platoon versus a third basemen. Mayberry (last year) gave the Phillies solid production against lefties. Even though Frandsen provided a decent bat, he was a liability defensively.

"I would call the Ibanez deal a success and the Polanco deal a failure because of the ease at which a left-fielder can play a platoon versus a third basemen."

That's fairly dubious logic. What you're really saying is that there's a more ready supply of semi-competent corner outfielders with whom you can platoon than there are at 3rd base. That's a point in FAVOR of the Polanco contract, as compared to the Ibanez contract.

Nonetheless, I agree with your conclusion that the Ibanez contract was better than the Polanco one. Ibanez had one extraordinary year & one very good one. Polanco didn't have any especially good years, let alone extraordinary ones. Left fielders are obviously more plentiful than 3rd basemen, but ones who post a 3-year OPS of .798 are not especially plentiful. Of course, both contracts were one year too long.

@Ben She doesn't know I post on BL, DPatrone is an online handle and beerleaguer is not mainstream. They don't leak because it would more likely get her caught. And it ain't like I am telling you guys who she is. These are just what the FO is thinking and trying to do right now, doesn't really affect their negotiations.

We want poly on the cheap because our other options aren't that much better. Defense is more important than offense. and Frandsen's glove was a defense liability.

The Polly signing would have been just fine, had it actually gone according to plan. When we got him, virtually all of us talked about how he'd make a great stop gap at 3B (remember he was transferring back after years at 2B), until the 2012 season or so where he'd be a great (albeit older) super-sub/utility guy.

That actually probably would have worked out okay. Except for the fact that no one ever planned for a full time 3B for 2012. The irony is that we STILL don't have a full time 3B for 2013 either!

Just because I hear it doesn't mean I like it. We need more starting pitching, not less. this amaro guy is a bum.

Sources or not, I would not be the least bit surprised to see Vic back in CF next season. If so, I just hope and pray that it's a short contract and it's accompanied by another OF move for a player that can be counted on for some power.

DPatrone's source is one of the guys who sell hotdogs at the ballpark. His source is reporting that next year, they will be switching to a different brand of relish.

Ah, must be the start of the off-season as D.Patrone starts with his "sources".

My sources tell me that "insert an unprovable/unlikely/borderline assinine internet rumor here" ....

Pretty much zero chance of Vic or Polly ever wearing bloodstripes again. That's what my source (My own brain) tells me.

Carry on D. Pat ... going to be a long winter once again.

If Shane or Polly are back. Either one. Rube should be fired on spot. Can't bring that slop back. Team needs new blood and those stale two ugh...

Marco Scutaro was also out there that year & I preferred him

JMARR - I would be stunned to see Vic back here too.

I could see Polanco coming back as a utility bench guy if he is willing to be a bench player and only make an appropriate salary (say $1M-$1.25M). Just didn't make any sense to pick up Polanco's option at $5.5M.

My bet is that Polanco ends up retiring this offseason. Played the last 2 years in a lot of pain and has had several health issues including a lingering bad back. If he was more healthy, I could see him sticking around & trying to get a ring with a contender as a veteran bench player.

I don't know how anyone can equate Vic & Polanco. Polanco is 37, can't stay on the field, and is thoroughly unproductive even when he does. Bringing him back, in any capacity, would be certifiably nuts.

Vic, on the other hand, is 31 and is one season removed from a career year. He is a strong bounceback candidate, whom the Phillies should absolutely consider bringing back. If anything, his down year only makes him more attractive as it drives down his cost.

Offensively, Scutaro has been the better player the past 3 years:

.293/.345/.403 (.747 OPS or 99+ OPS) while averaging 10 HRs and 8 SBs per 162-game schedule.

Polanco put up a .281/.330/.356 (.686 OPS or 86+ OPS) averaging 7 HRs and 4 SBs per 162-game schedule.

Curious to see if the Giants get roped into resigning Scutaro to a 2-yr deal at age 37 to be their starter at 2B. Just the kind of move that Sabean makes especially with veteran players he clearly takes a liking to.


This is like seeing the first robin of spring. It's officially hot stove time, people.

In 2012, Polanco went in one direction and David Wright in another. In 2010 and 2011, however, Polanco had as much value as Wright at a fraction of the cost.

When you talk about third basemen solely in terms of their OPS, you are ignoring the value of defense and Polanco's strength.

Im not understanding the word Stopgap. If Polanco was signed for a three year deal at time was one of the better hitters in baseball etc. I thought stopgap was used for a guy like Valdez for a year. Anyways at the time i thought the Polanco deal was a good deal and i was happy about it. One could argue the extra year wasnt necessary and have a valid point. I dont know his injury past while he was in Detroit but just prior to coming here he had a good year. He had a decent year his first year here as well. Then he just fell apart at first slowly then drove off the cliff. I think Rube figured he would get 2 good years out of Polly and 3rd year was a toss up. Polly knew and understood hitting, moving the runners putting ball in play etc etc. This was one of his main selling points on a team that tended to whiff away and did very little of the aforementioned. In hindsight i think the signing was acceptable.I seem to remember everyone wanting the Figgins character. Looked at how that turned out.

I like Polanco. Always thought he was a damn fine ballplayer - when he was healthy, which, unfortunately, wasn't as much as the Phillies had hoped.

phrase I hate: bounce back candidate

Isn't everyone who had a bad year a "bounce back candidate"???

I think I agree with Luis's larger point. The third year wouldn't have been so awful if everything else hadn't hit the fan during the season.

Ibanez for instance, was not good his third year. People here loathed him because some people just need a whipping boy, but despite the fact that he was not good last year, it didn't hurt the team at all. This year, they really could have used a power hitting (or an anything-hitting) third baseman in lieu of all their other problems. The scope of the team's suck really made Polanco's third year stand out more than it probably should have.

Not sure about DPatrone's source, but I like the idea of trading with the Royals for hitting.

Polanco wasn't a stop-gap and the Phils likely did have to give him a 3-yr guarantee to get him signed here.

Give him a C+/B- here based on his performance and contract. Phils got overall value out of it but the last year and half he was an offensive liability who had zero speed and almost no pop.

Thing that always frustrated me about Polanco was his nonsense that he was a 'professional hitter.' Term that I am not even sure what it really represents except that it means a guy doesn't strike out much.

Yeah Polanco was a very good contact hitter who rarely missed a pitch & could put the ball in play.

Also was a guy who who had his share of ABs swinging very early on the first or second-pitch and rarely walked or worked deep counts.

Wasn't necessarily a guy you wanted to see either with a runner on 3B and less than 2 outs the last 2 years because of his inability to drive the ball into the OF for sac fly.

Always found it kind of ironic how Amaro has blathered about how the Phils need to change their approach at the plate by working deeper counts and getting more walks and he generally goes out & acquires hitters like Polanco who do the exact opposite of that.

Last 2 years. Wonder if Amaro does that again this offseason where he states the Phils need to change their approach at the plate and then acquires hitters who don't work counts or walk much (e.g., Nix).

noname: Some are decidedly better bounce back candidates than others. When I speak of a bounce back candidate, I'm usually talking about someone who isn't that old, but suddenly had a single down year after being consistently good for many years. Last year, I thought Shin Soo-Choo was a bounce back candidate and, lo and behold, he bounced back (though he's still not as good as he was before).

Vic is sort of ambiguous because his 2010 season wasn't that good either. On the other hand, he's not terribly old, he did have some injury issues last year, and his 2010 season wasn't THAT bad. I obviously wouldn't give him a 3-year, $36M deal but neither will anyone else. For a year or two, at maybe $7M per year, I think he'd be a pretty good bet.

BAP - Vic isn't going to sign a 2-yr deal at $7M. He made $9.5M last year.

He might be enticed to sign a 1 yr/$8.5-$9M deal so he can hit FA next year in a much less crowded CF market.

Just a question about the possible return of Vic: Wasn't one of the reasons he was sent out west the intangible "clubhouse chemistry" factor? There were quiet rumblings about needing a change of attitude and demeanor, whatever that means.

If that is the case (and I don't know if it is), why would Vic be re-targeted? Performance issues or not, his personality and fit would be the same as it has been in the past.

(Personally, I like Vic, so would love to see him back here. But if his dismissal was for more than performance, then it might be less likely.)

Still down with Clout's prediction the day Amaro squashed the 'Utley to 3B' talk that the Phils would get their starting 3B via trade next year.

Trade for starting 3B, sign a starting free agent CF (not Bourn or Upton), sign a free agent SP

Those three moves I think are going to happen this offseason. One thing I can't figure out if Amaro spends decent dollars on a veteran setup guy. Think it does but it will largely be dictated on who is available.

can: I'm pretty sure he was traded simply because the Phillies were out of it anyway, & they wanted to get something for him before he hit free agency. I don't think there was any hidden agenda beyond that.

Only two moves I absolutely don't want Amaro to make are signing Bourn or Hamilton.

Hamilton just seems like the kind of signing Amaro loves to make (teams needs an offensive upgrade & Amaro LOVES to overpay for the asset he really wants at the starting of FA).

Not a Boras client either although hard to take away much on how Moye will handle the Hamilton negotiations and if he would be willing to sign a larger deal up front early in FA. Kind of a limited track record to go on their regarding Moye's clients.

It's really become conventional wisdom here that Bourn is some garbage player that would hurt the team if he was signed.

Despite what MG tells you, that isn't true. He'd help the team. He'd just end up being overpaid. If he isn't the only impact signing they make on offense, it's a good acquisition.

Seems like every single off-season, there's at least one Scott Boras-represented free agent who prices himself far beyond what the market will pay, then refuses to budge off his asking price & eventually has to settle for a one-year deal. Bourn seems like a prime candidate to be that guy.

" In hindsight, Adrian Beltre was the one to get."

He would indeed have been the one to get; too bad he wasn't a real option. He didn't want to sign the kind of deal the Phillies probably offered him, because his value was depressed from years in Safeco. He wanted a one-year deal in a hitters' park to re-prove himself, to parlay into a bigger deal. Which is exactly what he did. Can't blame the Phillies there.

R, correct on Beltre.

By the way, Polanco gave the Phillies 2.9 WAR in 2011, according to fangraphs. In 2010-11 combined, his 6.8 WAR ranked 8th among all MLB third basemen.

If it wasn't mentioned yet, White Sox declined Youkilis' option (and Brett Myers, for that matter).

I doubt there's a team in baseball that's NOT talking to the Royals about their young hitters. There was a report just the other day (Stark? Rosenthal?) that their young hitters were on the block. Don't think it takes an inside source to ferret out that one!

One thing I've learned on BL is that if a signing or trade doesn't deliver a star, it's a failure. It's not enough to be an upgrade over what was there before.

Schmenkman: If you want to boost a defense-first player like Polly you use WAR. If you want to bash him, you use OPS+

BAP uses either, depending on whether he wants to bash a player or boost him.

You have to include '12 when evaluating Polanco's tenure here especially since it just a 3-year period.

Agree with JW. The Phils got exactly what they were looking for him for the first year and half of the deal. Proved to be a real bargain and give great value.

In the last year and half, he just physically has had all kind of problems which really diminished his offensive output and limited his PT.

I wouldn't put Polanco's signing as on Amaro's top 5 good/bad moves as a GM here. Just glad they didn't end up with Chone Figgins who seemed to be the other guy they were considering.

Even if Polanco had an option last offseason, hard to see Amaro not having picked that up for '12 season.

Much like there was zero chance the Phils kept Polanco or Pigginton, there's zero chance Bourn gets a one year deal. Too much of a market for him and too dynamic a player. Someone will bend over and give him what he wants.

If Doc doesn't bounce back next year, it probably does not matter much who plays center and third.

limoguy, they did play at a 95-win pace after the ASB, with JMJ, Frandsen, and a less than stellar Doc.

clout, so which should you use? Does it depend on the situation?

What if the discussion is just about hitting?

I'm a sucker for DPat's fake source, so I've been thinking about his 'scoop.' I am increasingly not in favor of what would amount to reshuffling the deck in bringing back Vic and Polanco (though I guess if you bring Placido back for peanuts as a bench player, that would be a solid move). I am OK with the Vic thing if he's brought in to be the second corner OF piece after a marquee signing- but not as the lone OF addition.

Also, as gung-ho I am on the ideas of poaching one of KC's young hitters, I almost wonder if you could get better return from shopping Kendrick instead of Worley. I'm more bullish on Kendrick than Worley next year, but you could not possibly sell higher on Kendrick than you could this off-season. Putting him in a package for Moustakas, then signing a starter like Kuroda or Marcum, would drastically improve the team.

I also continue to like the idea of getting Choo, especially since (and I didn't know this) it's his walk year. That means he'll come cheaper and, if a corner OF manages to establish himself in 2013, you won't necessarily be forced to overpay for him when he hits FA just to tread water on offense. It's sort of like the Pence situation, only he'll be cheaper, Ruf/Brown will both still be able to audition the whole year as possible replacements, and Choo is actually good.

Belted was the one to get in foresight too. Wasn't a big surprise he was better than everyone else. What was surprising is how poor the other options turned out to be. Polly was OK, but figgins fell off a cliff.

Polly is the career leader in fielding percentage at both 2nd and 3rd base. Amazing.

"If you want to boost a defense-first player like Polly you use WAR. If you want to bash him, you use OPS+ . . . BAP uses either, depending on whether he wants to bash a player or boost him."

You've NEVER seen me use WAR to boost a defense-first player, because: (1) there aren't too many defense-first players I feel inclined to boost; (2) if I were inclined to boost one, I would find a way to do so without resorting to defensive stats whose validity I don't believe in.


So know he was a vital piece in the Giants' WS run because of his RBI production during the regular season and his leadership/clutch hits in the postseason?

Winning a title changes all kinds of perceptions. Here I thought Pence was a guy who continued to play really shoddy defense, struggled to hit especially in AT&T Park (under .220 and .650 OPS there in a Giant's uniform), and the Giants largely won in spite of in the postseason than because of him.

Given how much difficulty Sabean has in getting FA hitters to come to AT&T Park and Pence down year, I could easy see Sabean offering him a 3 or 4 year deal at $12-13M/AAV

MG - If Sabean offers Pence that contract, he should grab it with both hands while hugging Sabean and screaming "Where can I sign?"

My prediction still stands. Sabean will decline to offer arbitration to Pence. And if he wants him back, it will be on a one or two year contract for less dollars than your AAV.

aksmith - Pence isn't going to take a paycut over the $10.4M he got his year.

Its possible Sabean doesn't offer him arbitration but unlikely given the Giants' payroll next year and the need to secure 1-2 FA OF bats.

Pence was a popular clubhouse guy with the Giants, but he was flat-out terrible on the field -- and worse still in the post-season. On the one hand, with Pagan & Scutaro possibly leaving, the Giants could be left with so little offense that it's hard to imagine their non-tendering Pence. On the other hand, it's equally hard to imagine any sane team offering him the type of $12M figure that he'd be sure to get in arbitration.

Only way I could really imagine the Giants non-tendering Pence would be if they can somehow lock up Pagan before he hits the free agent market. That seems fairly unlikely, unless Sabean just blows him away with a massive offer.

A;ways was a Polanco fan and was glad to see him back with the Phillies for a second tour.
But it was sad to see what age and injuries did to always great fielding, once good hitting , multi year all star.
Time to hang them up Placido, you had a good run.

Rollins with a GG. Good for Young James. Of course this is a reputation award and always has been but it's a nice honor after another solid year by the franchise's all-time best shortstop.

Congratulations to J-Roll on winning his 4th Gold Glove.

Nice $50k bonus for JRoll too.

JRoll wins another GG? I suppose there's something to be said for being steady if unspectacular. He's never been mistaken for Ozzie or Vizquel, but he's actually been better than Bowa and Bowa was a very good fielder.

If he can have a season like 2012 in 2013, I think he'll have earned the first three years of his contract.

MG - You can speculate all you want, but I have never said he'd take a pay cut. He definitely should take a pay cut, but baseball doesn't always work that way. Sabean has been very shrewd in building his team. My guess is that he'll go bigger on an offer toe Pagan, and either let Pence go or try to bring him back at about what he made this year. But that is being generous to a player who has been badly exposed.

I liked the Polanco signing at the time. Utley was already an injury concern and Polanco as a GG 2nd and probably above average 3rd seemed good. I also thought he'd be an expensive utility guy in 2013 (with extension picked up).

The 'contact' hitter thing was real but his OPS was always going to be poor since he had little power and did not walk. Mentally I just profiled Polanco as a secondbaseman and Utley as a thridbasemen which made them both seem like good players. Given the Phillies lineup of BB/KK guys and number of runners left on base, I hoped Polanco would actually knock in some runs. And I thought he had enough power to hit a sac fly.

I also figured Polanco would age very well. He did not rely on athleticism in his hitting or fielding. And I thought he'd be a good clubhouse guy and pinch hitter.

At this point I'd prefer almost anyone else: Frandsen for one, and Galvis might put up similar (terrible) numbers. Polanco is just an enormous risk to be healthy. I wish him the best of luck whenever he ends up; where will likely draw praise for all the things Phillies fans have seen: professional hitter, great defense, great clubhouse guy, helps the young guys, etc...

I agree with commenters about Beltre.
Rumor was Phillies offered 3yrs >$24M but Beltre wanted 1 year deal. He was right.

Other guy I wanted when Phils signed Polanco was Mark DeRosa (who I believe won a World Series parked on the bench with Aaron Rowand).

Should Phils have signed Cuddyer for 2013? And would he have been a better 3B than Wigginton?

Congrats to Jimmy on his fourth GG. He might be getting long-of-tooth but he can still pick it.

Cuddyer hasn't played an inning of 3rd base since 2010, when he played 13 games there. Before that, he hadn't played 3rd base since 2005. He's a 3rd baseman in the same way that Wigginton is a 3rd baseman. In fact, I would guess that Wigginton is actually better since, unlike Cuddyer, Wigginton actually WAS a 3rd baseman for most of his career. A bad one, but good enough to at least stick at the position.

"My source inside the Phillies FO confirms that we're targetting Vic with the hopes of resigning Polanco for cheap bench guy. Going to talk to KC about their young hitters. They need pitchers, we need hitters."

Posted by: DPatrone | Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 01:41 PM

Phans~ Someone's having some fun with us. This and the 2:00Pm posts were not from me I assure you. I Have no idea what is going to happen & I'll talk about things when they happen.

I haven't heard anything at all & really don't plan on it actually. My friend and I have not spoken in quite some time.

Whomever is posting as the fake me, I take it as a compliment. Thanks.

And JW~ You need to address this issue, I believe.

I don't understand giving the front office a pass on Beltre just because the guy wanted a 1 year deal. When Beltre said he wanted a 1 year deal, Amaro should have said, ok.

An fake DPat posting fake news from his fake source? I feel like I was just told Santa Claus isn't real.

The weirdest thing to come out of the Phillies flopping this year was this bizarre league of shadow BL posters pretending to be players, commenters, family members of players, etc. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Mini-Mart was actually Mini-Mart.

League of Shadows. Love it.

I don't think signing Beltre was the slam dunk that it appears to be in hindsight.

The one advantage Beltre had was that he was about to turn 31 in April 2010, while Polanco was 34.

Beltre in 2008-2009: .266/.317/.422 (95 wRC+)
Polanco in '08-'09: .295/.340/.407 (96 wRC+)

schmenkman: that's exactly why Beltre wanted the 1 year deal to begin with. 2009 was an injury/SafeCo marred season for him. He played the market right. No use argueing about it though, Beltre was obviously the best thing on the market. For whatever reason, we didn't get him. The more pertinent question is what are the Phils going to do for the 2013 season and beyond.

Third base is going to be the toughest decision RAJ will make for 2013. The free agent market is near empty and teams are not going to want to make a deal without some huge returns. The hope is that Cody Asche will be ready for 2014 but prospects are always a gamble and he bats left handed. Let's hope Ruben is creative because Frandsen is not the answer.

BAP: Actually, I think you're right about that. It's NEPP I was thinking of. You are not a WAR monger.

Ice: I doubt the real Mini could articulate his thoughts as well as the "fake" Mini that posted here. Either way, I quite enjoyed those posts.

Congrats to Jroll on the Gold Glove. His reputation as an elite defender is well earned.

Brandon Crawford and Zach Cozart were rookies who could probably put up a good argument against it, but I'm sure if either of those two are good enough to stay in the league for a few more years that they will get their due.

clout: Perhaps it's time to clean up your file drawer. Sounds like some of the guys from the "Short Attention Span" folder have somehow gotten mixed up with the guys in the "WAR Monger" folder.

re: Polanco

The one thing that saves Polanco's contract from being a negative is the lack of 3B options over the years. He was good for 1.5 seasons and awful for the other 1.5, so that kind of evens out. He didn't "block" anyone in house and at what.. 4% of the payroll?... his salary didn't hamper their flexibility too much either.

I wanted Chone Figgins, so i wont even attempt to trash Polly.

for anyone who thinks bap is joking, clout 100% has a file cabinet of beerleaguer posters' preferences as well as a rolladex for the most frequent interactions he comes across.

"My source inside the Phillies FO confirms that we're targetting Vic with the hopes of resigning Polanco for cheap bench guy. Going to talk to KC about their young hitters. They need pitchers, we need hitters."

Posted by: DPatrone | Tuesday, October 30, 2012 at 01:41 PM

Phans~ Someone's having some fun with us. This and the 2:00Pm posts were not from me I assure you. I Have no idea what is going to happen & I'll talk about things when they happen.

I haven't heard anything at all & really don't plan on it actually. My friend and I have not spoken in quite some time.

Whomever is posting as the fake me, I take it as a compliment. Thanks.

And JW~ You need to address this issue, I believe.

Posted by: DPatrone | Wednesday, October 31, 2012 at 04:07 AM

Phans, someone is having way too much time on their hands. The post from 4AM this morning was assuredly not from me. Teasing me on the boards is one thing, but to say I have no contacts in the FO after defending it for so long is another. Please stop!

From the Beerleaguer archives:

Nov. 21, 2007, 10:05 p.m.

Source says:

1. Randy Wolf “will sign” for one years, $5M.

2. Phils will sign Jerry DaVanon (I assume he meant Jeff DaVanon, since Jerry last appeared on a major league roster in 1977).

Dec. 1, 2007, 4:13 p.m.

DPatrone writes, “if Wolf signs with SD that’s the last time I listen to my source.”

Dec. 2, 2007:

Wolf signs with San Diego.

Dec. 21, 2007:

DaVanon signs with San Diego.

This sequence of events was 5 years ago and, to this day, we’re still hearing about the scoops from this source – and still waiting for one of those scoops to actually be right.

Addendum to last post: that 11-21-07 entry should say, "DPatrone's source says."

The 4 am post WAS from me. I happened to be awake. I get up very early a lot. Let me tell you imitaion is the sincerest form of flattery.

Whomever is doing this, obviously is acting like a child. If you want That I should stop posting, just say so. I have to consider the mindlessness of some people just trying to cause trouble.

BAP~ I'm waitng for him to be right as well! But even if he were, what differce would it make? I've been buried here for so long, I've gotta go a long way just to hit the top of the grave. Makes no difference. Even when I was correct in my opinion of what Amaro should or should not have done (based totally on how the season turned out), because I still be he could have brought in better players, my crediability (or lack thereof, as many see it), has not improved here, nor will it and I accept that.

So with most of the posters here, we agree to disagree and that's ok. But someone is posting here using my name, which apparantly is easy to do. Unlike some people, I've never tried to hide who I am. I can assure you, if and when I have something to comment on, I will. But I've never posted anything that I didn't believe was accurrate. I've disagreed with people, and have even been angry with some, but that is all water under the bridge.

JMARR~ I'm not starting anything. I have no idea what there going to do, save bring in an outfielder or two.

My guess is Fransen and Freddie will platoon at 3b. Ruf will be given a strong opportunity. but other than that who knows? Not me for sure.

"My guess is Fransen and Freddie will platoon at 3b. Ruf will be given a strong opportunity. but other than that who knows? Not me for sure."

Damn, I think I'd rather hear from your source. This "plan" sounds appalling.

Soria's option declined. Should be looked into.

And how would one split the playing time between Freddy Galvis and Kevin Frandsen? Its not like compliment each other. One can't play D, the other can. One looks like he might be able to hit (at least LHP) and the other can't hit, period.

The Orioles declined their option on Mark Reynolds for 2013. They still retain his rights under the arbitration process and have til November 30th to decide what they want to do.

He would be interesting to look at if you fully believe the Phillies have looked for defense at third in spite of offense. Reynolds would be a shift in the other direction in a drastic way.

Now I'm a WAR monger...too funny.

Mark Reynolds is a poorman's Ryan Howard that can sorta play 3rd. And yet, he might be the best thing available for only cash. He could hit. 270 with 45 homeruns or .220 with 20 homeruns, Jroll would definitely earn his 2013 gold glove playing next to Reynolds.

Jbird: Hitting 45 HRs is not totally out of the realm of possibility for Reynolds, but hitting .270 certainly is.

The comments to this entry are closed.

EST. 2005

Top Stories


Rotoworld News

Follow on Twitter

Follow on Facebook

Contact Weitzel