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Friday, October 26, 2012

Comments

Sophist: Different strokes, but Franzke and LA have a jokey nature that almost overrides the game at times in different ways than TMac and Wheels nature to do the same thing. I will say that the former crew is more enjoyable in their deviations.

However, people have to know that LA was on the television broadcasts for a while- with Harry- and he was horrible

repost from prior thread:

Derek: so in the scenario where the Phillies only sign Greinke, you think an outfield of Brown-Mayberry-Ruf and Frandsen at 3rd is not going to be an issue? How many more wins is Geinke worth than Kendrick or Worely?

Using WAR (I know. . . ), over the last 2 years, Greinke has been worth about 2 more wins over Kendrick and Upton has been worth 3 over Mayberry. Upton will be cheaper than Greinke and therefore offer a greater marginal value in bang for the buck as well as leave more money to bolster other positions.

Also, if Halladay, Utley, & Howard continue to have serious issues, nothing the Phillies do outside of getting new 5 WAR players at each of their positions as well as fill their other holes will make a difference. Too much money is sunk into those 3 guys for the team to overcome continued struggles.

Truth Injection: What, Derrick Mitchell and ABL news isn't a good enough springboard? Stay on track, man.

Ha, I knew it! As soon as the conversation turned to the broadcast team, I figured JW would try to change the topic.

I'm betting he has a whole cache of inane random posts in the barn, for when the discussion turns to TBag, Abreu or KK's K/9 rate.

And for the record, I'm as against that "they're not as bad as other broadcast teams" argument as I am the "we could actually be doing even worse at 3B" argument. If you learn to accept mediocrity, then I suppose a .500 season is okay, too?

I was writing a post and all ready to put it up when I saw "yo, new thread." I can't just flip my train of thought like that.

But on the topic at hand- I look forward to Mitchell being a prospective guy that may be looked at as the answer by some posters at some juncture of the season.

Staying with the minor league theme, anyone checked this article out?

http://climbingtalshill.com/2012/10/25/early-look-at-astros-rule-5-eligibles/

Talks about the Astros Rule 5 eligible players, several of ex-phillies. Villar, Zeid, Cossart. Wonder if any will be unprotected and Rube decides to pick em up?

Mitchell played well enough in 2011 to be given a 'do or die' chance in 2012 to see if could ever get into the mix as a possible MLB player.

He died.

Cosart and Villar will absolutely be protected.

If Cosart is eligible and unprotected, I'd love to see the Phillies grab him. As a reliever project, he's got better stuff than anyone other than Aumont, and that's probably a tossup.

It's a shame he still has that inverted W delivery. It's surprising that two organizations have failed to alter that.

I thought that list was likely unprotected players. But it's not. Too bad. However, the Stros are an organization that seems to have a lot of younger players, so maybe they'll run out of spots to protect some talent.

As for the Phillies, they could probably protect all their own talent and that of another team by removing flotsam from the forty man this year.

SEASON = SAVED!

Can you imagine if commenters actually stuck to specific topics for each thread. the 2006 abreu trade thread would be still be going strong while Derrick Mitchell's comment section would never be started.

Well, JBird, if WAR says its so, it must be so, right?

Sheesh!

jbird - I am not suggesting the Phils only sign Greinke. I am suggesting they add two outfielders, a third baseman, an eighth-inning guy and Greinke.

Greinke should be worth a WAR of at least 5.

derek: I dont think anyone would disagree that Grienke wouldn't be an improvement to this team, but thats a decision that engulfs the franchise's decision making for the next ~6 years. There's an entire universe of factors that signing Grienke to a FA deal would affect.

WAR, Phillies announcers, and the Abreu trade: a trifecta of threadjacks.

Reverend: "If you do one season of [mlb.tv] you will realize how good T-bag and Wheels are compared to the rest of the trash out there.
It gets painful to watch games."

As a MLB.tv watcher myself, I have to admit that what the Reverend says is true. There are much worse. Florida, San Diego, & Arizona spring right to mind and, while I don't keep running track of it, I seem to recall there are quite a few others who are also terrible. But the Phillies' announcers are in the bottom half, for sure. It's unbecoming for such a big market, big-budget team.

derek wants the Phils to sign 5 high-priced free agents. I cannot imagine what the offseason discussion would look like if the Phils entered Jan/Feb with a $190M+ payroll and 5 new but familiar faces.

Cantchya hear cantchya hear the thunder?


Men Without Hats is my favorite.

Sophist - Greinke would be the one high-priced FA I want to sign. I am assuming the other four FAs could be signed for a total of $25-30 million. That means I would steer away from guys like Bourn and B.J. Upton and lean towards Victorino and Pagan (if he's still relatively cheap). I am thinking that Youk would cost $10 million per year for two years.

Ummmm, that was actually "Men at Work..."

One of the benefits of a Greinke signing is that he would be an addition to the Phils' core group and that he would be young. Greinke will be 29 for the entire 2013 regular season.

"Ummmm, that was actually "Men at Work..."

Indeed. Men Without Hats does not come from the land down under.

Ummmm, that was actually "Men at Work..."

I know.

clout: cogent retort... I thought the "(I know. . . )" part relayed my acquiescence to the deficiencies of WAR, but apparently I wasn't explicit enough. My point was, Upton is a bigger upgrade relative to the person he would replace (Mayberry) at a lower overall cost than Greinke (vs. Kendrick). So, Greinke may be the better player in absolute terms, to the phillies in their particular position, Upton is the better marginal value. But, I'm all for Derek's plan, let's sign them both!

jw: I suppose I can almost can hear, can hear Brad Harmon's thunder....

I think Mitchell ends up back in AA.
Depending on Rule 5 draft, AAA OF will be Castro in RF, Gillies in CF, Ruf in LF with James at all 3 spots. Not sure how the Phillies figure their future OF at this point.

Gillies could be a starter in the majors but is even less healthy than Polanco. No way Phillies should count on him but I'd like them to leave a little wiggle room for a breakout from him or the other 3 guys.

Here's my take:
James is defensive wiz but needs an improved SB percentage to be useful as a 5th OF.
Casto's upside is Ben Francisco, serviceable 4th OF.
Ruf is possibly a good platoon option. He hit about what Mayberry does but brings nothing else. If Ruf can hit like 'good' Mayberry that would be quite helpful.

Brown was supposed to be a superstar, so what do Phillies do with him? I'd tell him he's the starter (in LF or RF) and bat him 2nd).

All these guys (if still around) have minor league options. The existing guys of Mayberry, Nix, Shierholtz are frustrating. None are starters but do have platoon value.

I think Mayberry stays for sure since he can play solid defense and can still bring power against lefties.
Nix is about the same from the leftside but with no speed and less defensive value but has guaranteed contract.
Shierholtz was a wasted acquisition. I think he's okay but redundant to Nix. I like Nate better and his defense is good but he has less power than Nix. I could see Nate thriving with someone like NYY.

Phillies OF needs to get better and none of the current options seems to be above average. Not good. Cannot wait until Spring Training to sort it out either.

At the risk of invoking the wrath of lorecore . . . I am struggling mightily to understand the widely accepted Beerleaguer viewpoint that a guy who hit 38 homers and had a 1.000 OPS at AA, and who looked perfectly good (actually, fantastic) in his all-too-short call-up at the end of last season, is nothing more than a platoon player. I understand it even less when that view is juxtaposed against the widely accepted Beerleaguer viewpoint that a guy who has stunk it up something fierce in 492 major league PAs is a bona fide major league starter.

I'm not sure I get it, either, BAP. As I see it, within the last, oh say 8 months or so, if you had absolutely zero back story on any previous performance or expectations, you'd look at Brown and Ruf and see a complete no-brainer. If there's an MLB starter between the two of them, it's Ruf.

I think that everyone is still stuck in this antiquated notion that until a guy proves himself at AAA (Ruf hasn't yet had the opportunity to do so), he can't be a viable full time option. The irony, however, is that Brown HAS had that opportunity, and hasn't exactly passed with flying colors.

I'm not anointing Ruf a starting MLB OF just yet, either. But to state that Brown is one is hypocritical.

Zach c really starting to make org make some desecions on roster.

WP: Even if you sent Ruf to AAA, and he proceeded to hit 38 more homeruns with a 1.000 OPS next year, I still think the scouts (who hate to have their original projections proven wrong) would call him a platoon player, at best. And I still think a sizable portion of Beerleaguer would mindlessly parrot whatever the scouts said.

So what you're saying is that I shouldn't give up hope on Brien Taylor just yet?

bap/WP: Wasn't there a line of argument being made this year that AA is where the actual developing star talent is and AAA is the place to store bits and pieces to reload for contingencies over the course of a long season? If so, I say Ruf earned a shot for an extended spring training look at the very least.

MPN, I think that's fair. He's done nothing to NOT earn a shot. To be honest, I'm still surprised by the reluctance to even bring him up in September. Why was that even really a debate?

And before someone blows it out of proportion, no one is saying that Ruf is an outfield "solution" for next season. There's just not a viable reason to not kick the tires and see what we might have, despite some prior scouting reports or antiquated player development theories.

I think the real consternation turns to Brown. Why shouldn't he ALSO have to EARN a starting job in Spring? He's not an incumbent, and he hasn't exactly "played his way onto the roster" as of yet.

It's just confusing as to why there is a double standard. And I'm actually one of Brown's biggest fans (sorry, GTown).

lots of prospects skip AAA or make only a brief stop there, it's becoming more a taxi squad league than a developmental league.

Personally, I think the Phillies should bring in a CF and a RF, and let Brown and Ruf battle it out in spring training for the remaining spot.

Preacher: No need to apologize. And it's not so much that I don't like Dom, I just don't think he will ever amount to anything.

I agree that Ruf deserves an primary opportunity in the Spring. I just think he will end up as a platoon player. Ruf still can learn fielding, in addition to hitting against the 'junkballer' types, at AAA.

Brown had already had glowing success in the minors so there is nothing for him to prove there. Brown needs to play in the majors to confirm if he can be even an average player. He could still be optioned if he sucks it up again.

I'd like to see Torii Hunter signed as the everday CF. Mayberry stays as 4th OF/RH platoon. Brown starts. Then let Ruf/Schierholtz/Nix fight it out for the 3rd OF spot. Loser is demoted/cut/traded, other is 2nd bench option.

I think my stance has been stated plenty of times. Ruf should be put in AAA to start 2013 and not be considered when building the MLB roster.

Anyone who wants to give him a roster spot after a good spring training will be taking a huge risk that I dont think is worth it.

Torii hunter is no longer a CF and he had a .389 babip last season. He's a good target to pick up but he's not as attractive as ppl are making him out to be.

It's probably inevitable, but I seriously dislike the idea of bringing Mayberry back. His fielding skill isn't so great as to overcome his dead bat & justify continued presence on the roster. If ever a player has been given ample chance to prove himself & failed, it's Mayberry.

Since I already went through the thought exercise through my guess at the OF, here's my current plan for Phillies position players...

Acquisitions: Sign Torii Hunter in CF (2/$20M), Erik Chavez at 3B (1/$5M + option), and Macier Izturis (1/$2M) for backup INF.

Lineup: Rollins, Utley, Ruiz, Howard, Hunter, Brown, Chavez, Schierholtz.
Bench with key positions covered: Kratz (C), Izturis (SS), Mayberry (CF), Nix, Frandsen.
Ruf and Galvis start in AAA.

Some power exists at all 8 spots in lineup. I am counting on Ruiz to be a quality hitter again and Utley, Howard, Hunter close to career averages. Brown must be above average. This is still an old team though.

Bench has power options in Kratz, Mayberry and Nix. Speed and bat control from Izturis. Frandsen, despite good 2012, is likely first cut, but does have 'versatility'.
Nix could certainly be upgraded by signing a starting OF but why not let the AAA guys (Ruf, Gillies, Castro, James) see if they can earn a mid-year call up.

If RAJ pays Torii Hunter 2/$20 mil I might lead a cavalry charge on Citizens Bank Park.

lore: I know we've been through this many times, and I know I'm not going to convince you. But I simply can't wrap my head around the mindset that, even if Ruf went out and had a great spring training, he STILL wouldn't have earned even a roster spot. I mean, he got a call-up at the end of last year and he absolutely killed it. Small SSS, to be sure; but he sure looked like he could hit. Now he's hitting well again in the Venezuelan Summer League. Small SSS again but, again, he's hitting homers right & left. Then if he dominates again in SSS, you'll still be unconvinced?

You do realize that the strongest piece of evidence for putting all these SSS numbers into context are his AA numbers last year -- numbers which were ridiculous & historically strong? He led the league in both OBP & slugging, finished with an OPS 161 points higher than the 2nd place guy, hit 52% more homeruns than the 2nd place guy, and fell just .05 short of the batting title. How can you completely omit that from your analysis?

It's kind of like a criminal case based on circumstantial evidence. No one piece may be overwhelmingly convincing in and of itself. But taken as a whole, it can become overwhelmingly convincing. Of course, you are like an O.J. Simpson juror. No amount of evidence is going to convince you.

i wonder if Rube will sign Nate then to later trade him?

Either Schierholtz will be non-tendered or either he or Nix will be traded. I can't imagine a scenario in which both are invited to Spring Training.

Ruf will be given a token opportunity to compete for a job in Spring Training, he will outperform every present in-house OF option, and he will be shipped to Lehigh Valley for no logical reason. He may, or may not, find himself on an American League playoff team, because, you know, that makes perfect sense to Rube.

Brown and Mayberry will continue to be given chance after chance to justify scouts opinions, while those who perform well enough to justify a role on a major league roster will be bounced between the farm and the bench and, ultimately, out of the organization.

And Rube will overspend on aging vets who are physically incapable of performing at a level that justifies their paycheck, while our aging stars of yesteryear trade places on the DL.

This is the 2013 Phillies that I fear we will see. I have little faith that the Amaro regime will produce another playoff ballclub.

Glass is half full: Galvis is batting .375 in Venezuela so far.

Glass is half empty: Tomas Perez (yes, that Tomas Perez) is batting .441 in the same league.

NEPP - I don't see the problem. Galvis either makes the major league team or goes to AAA for some seasoning. And Tomas Perez makes the major league minimum backing up at third, short and second. Problem solved. Shaving cream pie, anyone?

I love how BAP acts like Ruf came up and treated the league like his b*tch and pulled a Mike Trout or something. He was facing some pretty typically awful 'September Call-Up' pitching and only had 33 ABs, striking out 12 times. If he could keep up the slash line over a full season, hey, great, the guy is an MVP candidate. It's 33 ABs against terrible pitching. How can you be so sure this guy is a MLB powerhouse with that extremely limited action in garbage time against sketchy major league 'talent'?

I'm all for giving him a real shot in ST, but the hearts in BAP's eyes over this guy is just weird.

BAP: Tell me your projection for Ruf if he is the everyday starter in LF for the Phillies next season.

Iceman: The opposing starters, in the games Ruf started: Detwiler, Lannan, Gio Gonzalez, Buehrle, Eovaldi, Lannan again, Gorzelanny, Edwin Jackson. Exactly one sketchy major leaguer among them. His homers were off Clippard, Gorzelanny, and Detwiler.

Iceman: BAP, aksmith, GTowndave et al are obsessed with small sample sizes. It fits with their short attention spans. If Ruf makes the team and goes 1 for 16, BAP will turn on a dime and declare him worthless. He is utterly incapable of seeing the big picture or understanding that it's a long season.

clout: Honestly? If he were the everyday left fielder, I think he'd hit .275 with 30 homeruns and an .800+ OPS. I do not, however, think he'll be the everyday left fielder. I think he'll be lucky to get 100 ABs, as guys like Ruf get sent down to AAA the first time they go into a 1 for 20 funk. Then the pundits who predicted failure for the guy all along -- plus guys like lorecore who eat up everything the pundits say -- declare, "I told you so."

PhxPhilly: I like your analysis but think you overrate Castro and underrate Gillies.

As for James, he is still intriguing because he is blazing fast and a magician with the glove. But it is put up or shut up time for him with regard to his K/BB ratio. He is not a power hitter and if he continues to strike out in 28% of his plate appearances while walking just 5%, then it is time to cut him loose.

BAP: I'll take the under on all three of your projections.

You have no feel at all for the impact of age difference at the AA level and lower or how many PAs you need in MLB to establish a meaningful sample size.

That said, the Phillies need to give Ruf as many PAs as possible in ST.

It's a pity such deserving players as Brown & Mayberry didn't hit worth a damn vs. the same typically awful Sept. pitching.

GTown: I bet you could find a 33 AB sample size where Dom and Mayberry really raked. In fact, I bet you could find a sample size twice that big.

Clout - I don't think anyone is saying that 33 at bats mean much. But taken in conjunction with AA numbers, they mean a little bit more than nothing.

To make predictions based on a AA season and 33 at bats would be a bit silly. But from those 33 at bats and seeing quite a few of his AA at bats, I think the guy will hit major league pitching well enough to be at worst an extra outfielder. As I said before, he makes adjustments that good hitters make. That gives him a better chance.

Would I feel comfortable giving him a starting job without a safety net? Of course not.

But that small sample size thing can also work in other ways. Frandsen had a larger but still small sample size and he raked. To find the same kind of sample for Dom or Mayberry, you'd have to pick and choose from multiple seasons of mostly being below average. There is something to be said for taking the only opportunity you've had and killing it.

I think having Ruf and Frandsen on the team will be a net benefit, no matter what else you think of them.

So, what's your prediction for Ruf's season?

Oh, and I know that wasn't Frandsen's first shot at the majors. But it's the first one in quite a while.

clout: I'd just like to see Ruf get the same amount of rope that guys like Brown & Mayberry have gotten.

BAP- I should have known you had a 'I <3 Ruf' cheat sheet next to your computer. Eovaldi is not good, and Lannan is an AAA-caliber pitcher. The rest of the starters were LHP.

I would concede to you that he could hit LHP at the MLB level, and I even started digging deeper into the numbers to get a better idea of what he might be capable of, but then I realized you can't dig deeper into numbers when the guy started less than ten games, and that you have to be a freaking dunce to draw any meaningful conclusions from 33 MLB at-bats. Especially when the player was, by his own admission, one poor year from being OUT OF BASEBALL before he did anything of note at any level this year.

There is no one debating with you that he deserves a chance to hit all types of pitching in ST next year. Not one person. So I'm not sure what you're having such a hissy fit about. He hasn't proven a GD thing.

aksmith: Frandsen is be a huge improvement over any recent Phillies utility INF.

If Ruf is the everyday LFer I'd project a slash line of roughly .260/.320/.420 with a 25% strikeout rate.

That makes him considerably better than Ben Francisco.

It would also make Ruf considerably better than Dom has been. I'll take the ~6% increase in Ks for the added power.

Hey All,
Thanks for reality check on Torii Hunter. $10M per seems way too high if he is not an everyday CF and his batting avg will obviously drop. I was figuring a .775 OPS with average CF play as a likely 2013 prediction; and a fit as the 5-hole hitter.

I still like him as an acquisition in theory, but not sure if he'd be worth the incremental cost over Mayberry.

"You have no feel at all for the impact of age difference at the AA level."

I honestly just don't think it's a big deal. All it means, to me, is that he's not likely to improve as much as the guys he's currently competing against. But I'm not worried about how good he'll be in 5 years, as compared to some 21-year old AA player. I'm worried about 2013. And, for 2013, he's clearly head and shoulders better (offensively) than any other player in the Eastern League. That means he's head and shoulders more likely to be better -- right now -- against major league pitching.

All of my predictions are subject to two caveats. First, if he doesn't get 400 ABs, there's no way to know, one way or the other, whether I'm right. Second, I'm assuming last year's numbers were not PED-enhanced. If we find out that they were, then all bets are off on my predictions.

For the record, I was pretty much right on the mark with Erik Kratz. His .809 OPS is right about what I would have guessed - maybe even slightly better.

Torii Hunter's last three years: .285/.351/.448/.800, 124 OPS+
JMJ's last three years: .256/.316/.439/.755, 103 OPS+

Torii Hunter career vs. LHP: .289/.353/.490/.843
JMJ's career vs. LHP: .284/.328/.547/.875

Hunter doesn't not hit for power as well as Mayberry against LHP. In every other offensive category, Hunter is pretty clearly the better player. And he's not a liability against RHP.

He has had a remarkably consistent career. First half, second half, month to month splits, power numbers...freakishly consistent through a 15+ year MLB career. His platoon split isn't even very significant. He would be a player that Manuel wouldn't have to hide against certain types of pitchers- an absolute rarity on the team right now. He's a RHB, which the team needs.

As long as he's not signed to an Ibanez/Polanco 3-year veteran special, Hunter would be a great pick-up. A fourth OF at worst if his everyday production falls off a cliff, and at best a replacement for the likely-to-fail Dom Brown experiment. And he relegates Mayberry to what he should be- an OF off the bench instead of being forced into a starting role all too often against RHP.

BAP is going to take the one thing he's been right about since BLers inception (Kratz) and use it as a trump card in every argument henceforth until the end of time.

It reminds me of the a story I saw a few days back about a squirrel that 'predicted' the presidential election in 2008 by eating out of a bowl of nuts with Obama's face on it. Now in 2012 people are going back to him to find out who will win.

The fact that BAP went to Kratz's nuts has no bearing whatsoever on the argument about Ruf.

Ruf hits 10HR next April for the Phils-it's just a hot streak.

Ruf hits 10HR in May-wait til his second time thru the league-pitchers will adjust.

Ruf hits 10HR in June- it's unsustainable.

Ruf hits 10HR in July-Cholly moves him up to 6th in the order.

Ruf hits 3HR in August-everyone on BL claims they were right about him all along.

I'll let BAP predict September.

i wonder if Rube's next year reclamation project will be Marlon....Things that make you go Hmmmm...Almost seems like a Rube special...except for the drug suspension thing..

Iceman/bap: Count me out on that argument - I was very impressed with what I saw from Ruf in his short time. Still remember that first HR he hit, he pulled his hands in on a 2 strike up and in fastball from a RHP. Also took Clippard deep, a good RHP reliever. Great signs, as his MiLB numbers were heavily aided by vs LHP.

I have never diminished any of Ruf's accomplishments(although i think winter league stats are completely worthless in talent evaluation) - I've simply tried to be a voice of reason to people who think hitting 20 HR in a month after turning 26 in AA translate into a 30HR MLB season.

I know he's his own player, but wake up and look at player trends over mlb history. Older positionless minor leaguers who have enormous success at the plate for 1 season is not some phenomenon isolated to just Darin Ruf. There have been many many before him, and their track record in the bigs is few and far between. Thats been the #1 reason behind my opinion the whole time.

And I'm not saying Ruf will never be good, i'm saying to not count on him in 2013 because it would be a huge risk. Let the guy play at least half a year in AAA, how is that such an outrageous demand?

ruf's first hr was off lhp, my bad, point still stands.

...I was very impressed with what I saw from Ruf in his short time.

    Still remember that first HR he hit, he pulled his hands in on a 2 strike up and in fastball from a RHP.
Also took Clippard deep, a good RHP reliever. Great signs, as his MiLB numbers were heavily aided by vs LHP....

Posted by: lorecore | Saturday, October 27, 2012 at 10:42 AM

lorecore nails it with this observation. I was blown away how Ruf got his hands inside to complete his hip turn. That ball was crushed.

Ruf's got hitter's instincts. Getting your hands inside can’t be taught, and IMHO is a trait of many if not most power hitters. I can't recall a single instance of Dom adjusting so well to a pitch -- after it has left the mound!

As b_a_p noted, let's hope Ruf's AA season is not PED-aided. It would be a crime if Ruf does not get 400 PA's in '13. The Phillies desperately need power, and they need to get young. If they ignore getting Ruf every available opportunity in 2013 -- remember, it's as if Ruf's been dropped in their collective laps -- its more evidence of the near-criminal mismanagement of this once proud team.

"BAP is going to take the one thing he's been right about since BLers inception (Kratz) and use it as a trump card in every argument."

You're damn right, I am. In this case, however, it's a pretty good parallel. Kratz was killing it in AAA year after year. I said, "How can they not think this guy is better than Schneider?" I was told things like: "It's very common for an older player to hit well in AAA. His numbers are meaningless." Or, "He has been given a shot before. He failed spectacularly (in all of 36 PAs)." Or, "If he were a major league talent, he'd be at the major leagues by now." One poster, who shall remain unnamed, even presented me with a "major league equivalency formula," which he used to "prove" that Kratz's major league numbers would be the same as Schneider's.

So, yeah, I'm going to ride this one for all it's worth. I think the whole experience tells us a bit about not getting too fixated on scouting reports or a prospect's age, while ignoring the most important thing of all: the player's actual minor league numbers.

Buster Olney saying don't be surprised is Mike Moustakas is shopped. I wonder what it would take to get him.

Len39: Exactly what I was thinking. Moustakas was solid this year. Had him on my fantasy team for most of the season. Anyone have any idea what it could take? The article mentions that the Royals want pitching, just don't know what kind of pitching it would take to snag Moustakas away.

I have lower back issues, so I am limited in what physical activities I can do. However, if Rube pried Moustakas from KC, I would do several standing back-flips.

That said, it's probably a pipe dream. I would personally pay the high price tag, though.

Schneider vs. Kratz

Schneider was a broken-down, veteran journeyman who came back here largely because he came back on a contract making only slightly above veteran minimum & knew the staff.

I just found it frustrating that the Phils would site his defense as a reason why he was brought back (Kratz has a much better arm) and Schneider was basically useless offensively (an average somewhere slightly over .200 with minor power and minimal production)

I wanted to wait for a new thread to post this, but what does everybody think of trying to get Moustakes from the Royals for Vance Worley? Royals are out for pitching and still have some hitting prospects coming through. It might be out of Amaro's creativity range but I personally like Moustakes.

gotta give bap credit, no matter how many people argued tooth and nail that Brain Schneider should be the backup catcher in 2012, he was the lone voice who stood up to the overwhelming weight of immense pressure and ridicule from his peers to proclaim that Brain Schneider was not the answer!

re: Moustakas

Don't think the phillies have the resources. Biddle and Worley would likely not be enough. Probably need to give up a 3B in Asche/Franco as well since Royals dont have an in house replacement. Cheslor Cuthbert who is still struggling in A ball is their only other 3B prospect. Moustakas still extremely cheap and already is being talked about as the best defensive 3B in baseball already.

Obviously should be heavily pursued, but the Royals are most likely just shopping him because of the overwhelming lack of 3B options available to a number of contenders.

Moose, even at just a 90 OPS+ is likley more expensive in trade value than Chase Headley.

That Moustakas cat on only hit .242 with a 124 strike outs.

Ruf two more hr. ave low but really been teeing off latley

The Tigers are really pathetic.

This Giants team really isn't that good.

Moustakas just finished his second full year at 24 YO and hit 20 HRs. He is one of the best defensive 3B in the league. He would be a fantastic get. Don't glance at his BA and assume he's garbage.

I know Moustakas was a big-time prospect and is only 24. I also know he put up Darrin Ruf type numbers in the minors in 2010. But there are certainly a few red flags, like the fact that: (1) he is left-handed and can't hit LHP; (2) he absolutely never walks, and hasn't at any level; and (3) he has nearly 1,000 major league PAs and has put up Pedro Feliz-like numbers. That said, I share in the view that he'd be an excellent acquisition -- though I'm not quite as ebullient about him as Iceman is.

I actually thought the Tigers would win this series. They are going down very meekly -- almost embarrassingly so.

BAP- I am more ebullient on how he fits what the team needs (other than the LH thing) going forward than I am on his chances to be Brooks Robinson. He is exactly what the team needs at 3B next year- better than anything they'd have to overpay for on the FA market- and he's making peanuts next year. Plus, he's young and cost-controlled. The only way he would be a better fit is if he were RH, but you can't have everything.

I'm fully aware it's a pipe dream, though. KC isn't going to let us just bend them over and take him.

I also think it's interesting that his numbers dropped dramatically in the 2nd half. He was OPSing over .800 going into the AS break. I wonder if he was hurt.

Not having to break a sweat against the Yankees really worked against Detroit. They hadn't been challenged since playing Oakland. Quite a gap between those games and the WS starting. They came out flat, and then started pressing. In a short series, you can't afford to do either.

Wait, because Kratz had an .809 OPS in 149 ABs, he's now an established .800 OPS guy?

If so, he's one of the top catchers in baseball and worth several top prospects or a major league starter, no?

I take that back. Since Ruf is an established 30 HR a year guy based on 33 ABs, OF COURSE Kratz is an established .800 OPS guy.

Silly me.

My prediction was San Francisco in 6 games. Turns out I massively overestimated the Tigers.

The only silver lining about this Tiger turd-laying is that I feel a little less bad about the Phils' performance against these pricks. At least they put up a fight. This is pathetic.

Of course, the Giants have had historically good pitching in their two world series' wins now. It's almost like, contrary to what you hear on BL, pitching and defense wins championships.

Very sad performance by tigers. All comes down to pitching defense and timely hitting. Philles had two of three in 10 and 11. That is why we need to have doc to being doc next year. And make a few more tweakes and we are right back in it. I said tigers in five. Boy was I way off and hunter dense will get a ring ugh.......posey only starter left from 2010, but look at pitching and all those guys still there. Rube has got his work cut out for him

Tim McCarver: Nice job, Hunter. How does it feel to win the World Series?

Pence: It feels great; let's go eat!

My absolute nightmare will be reality. What an abysmal WS.......

Royals also looking to shop Alex Gordon for pitching if the Moose isn't your cup of tea. I don't follow the Royals too much, is there a reason they moved him from third?

Alex Gordon would be a nice pickup too. Any trade to the Royals would start with Worley. I would still much rather get Moustakes and I would not look back in giving up Asche or Franco and Worley and probably another legit prospect.

Yet another year where the "hot" team is going to win. For whatever that's worth...

I find myself rooting for the Giants and not caring at all if Pence gets a ring. If he does it certainly won't be for anything he's done in the playoffs. I'm just glad he's not our problem anymore. The only guy on the Giants who I'm rooting against is Brian Wilson and he's just a sideshow at this point.

Having enough starting pitching to be able use Lincecum out of the pen is crazy. I still can't believe that Zito shut this lineup down.

If you were Leyland, would you pitch Verlander tonight? I think I would.

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