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Thursday, October 04, 2012


If Dubee made decisions about keeping Halladay and Worley on the mound when they clearly were not well then he should have been fired as well. Sandberg could get a Boston interview.

I think Dubee and Charlie both harbor a belief that humans can grow new, replacement body parts whenever one breaks down.

Rod Nichols is a deserved promotion. The name really stuck with me in '08 during Brett Myers' brief assignment in Triple-A and how he came back confident and durable. He obviously played a role in turning some of the LHV arms into major leathers so I think he's definitely earned a promotion.

Yup. Must take a crapload of skill to coach up guys like Halladay & Lee & Hamels. Damn shame that old Dubee magic apparently isn't transferable to bullpen arms.

Already like new moves. And when we sign upton. We will have his old hitting coach!

I think it was poster st that claimed, kind of out of nowhere, that Dubee made the pitching decisions and managed the bullpen, despite no apparent evidence of this.

I'm now wondering if this st character is in the front office or the clubhouse in some capacity, because it's pretty clear now that Dubee is more than just The Big 3's Gatorade caddy.

Wonder how much input sandberg is getting in picking the new coaches.

Amaro says Sandberg can interview with other teams if those teams are interested.

Manuel says he's fine working next year during the last year of his contract considering his age.

Fata and Edmundo: I think your love for WAR as the end-all, be-all, perfect stat (both of you have used it that way numerous times over the last couple seasons) may be blinding you to the issue of whether or not a case can be made for Miggy as MVP.

Most writers think team record is a significant factor in MVP. If a guy is so freakin' valuable why didn't his team make the playoffs?

I don't agree with this, but it is clearly an argument and this is reflected in the history of the award, which only rarely is given to a player from a non-post season team.

So while WAR, the God of Stats, says Trout is better, there are other criteria (including winning the Triple Crown) that writers take into account.

And if so weren't so blinded by your WAR love you'd see that the MVP is, in fact, "debatable."

2013 MLB Draft first 3 rounds: Phillies pick 16th, 52nd, 89th and 96th (for failure to sign their 2nd round pick in the 2012 Draft).

clout: If a team record is so significant, certainly supports the case for Trout, who's teams won more games than Cabrera's. Remember, Tigers would be 4th in the AL East or AL West. Hard to credit Cabrera just because his division sucks.

On your larger point, I agree, WAR isn't the end all-be all. There are a lot of factors to consider when choosing an MVP and many voters use different criteria. I think Trout is the winner, but won't begrudge those who choose Cabrera.

Both Trout and Cabrera are fine guys to vote for MVP. Cabrera is the better hitter and Trout the overall player.

A controversial vote would be for Kimbrel as the NL Cy Young.

I'd be reluctant to wager on the O's tomorrow night.

When players have talked about improving as pitchers, they tend to credit other players. Many have declared Halladay as a role model and instructor. I’ve heard bullpen guys credit Pap; in the past, credit would go to Madsen (or Lidge back in the day.)

Remember last year when Bastardo started to falter? He got his remedial coaching by phone from none other than the recently-booted Danys Baez in Florida!

Unless I am missing something, the players themselves don’t often credit Dubee for improvement in mechanics, workout regimen, or anything else.

MG: Well stated.

clout, I posted lots of stats to show that Trout is the better MVP candidate, but, you know, I mentioned WAR, so that means I think it's "be-all, end-all".

Got it.

Gtown: Did you enjoy the time that Dubee oversaw one of the game's best and most consistent pens from 2008-2011? Or when sure-fire prospects such as KK, Worley and Happ posted 2-3 ERAs?

This Phillies 2012 yearbook playing now is very informative. Salisbury is the guy being interviewed.

First off, they were dangling Hamels and Lee to LAA at the deadline and would have accepted Peter Boujois as part of the return. Salisbury listed him as a trade target. Ugh.

He also then listed potential trade chips and threw in Rollins. This isn't just idle speculation anymore. Salisbury says he believes they will dangle him, even though he has full no trade rights. That is the third credible report on this. It's time to consider this as a real possibility.

As potential FA targets he left Hamilton's name off the list of OFs. For 3B, he listed Youk and Rolen (haha). The two relievers he listed were Mike Adams and Madson- he says that he beliveves the relationship with Madson has been mended, despite claims by people on BL that have no knowledge whatsoever of the situation. He thinks one or both will be pursued.

Not a must-watch, but some pretty good tidbits in there. It was titled '2012: Year of Change,' which is a little bit like naming a documentary 'The Hindenburg: A Bumpy Ride.'

In no way on god's green earth is Mike Trout the MVP of the American League.

The fact that anyone even argues that he should have a single first place vote over a Triple Crown winner who plays for a Division champion speaks volumes about the absurdity of the internet sabermetrics cult (and no, I don't care about the Angel's record; they're a third place team, and that is that).

Sorry, but I don't give a flying crap what Trout's WAR is. He and the other bean counters have plenty of time to discuss his WAR with him over the next few weeks at home while the American League MVP is on the field.

If Rollins is traded, I assume Galvis becomes the SS, in which case Rollins had better be traded for someone who can produce as well at the plate as he has. (And I don't mean his production of pop-ups. Had to say that out, anticipating that someone else would comment on them.)

If they trade Rollins, I'll at least as sad as I was when Vic was traded.

In spite of the widespread and spirited debate, something tells me that Cabrera will win the MVP fairly handily. And Posey will win handily in the NL.

The Cy Young races are harder to call. It's a 3-horse race in the AL and about a 6-horse race in the NL. If I got a vote, I'd cast it for Verlander and Kimbrel. On principle, I usually don't think relievers should win it. But none of the starters really stands out from the crowd & Kimbrel's numbers are just flat-out ridiculous.

Angels record with Trout on the team: 83-59 (.584) Over a full season, this would have won the Angels 95 games, and the AL West.

Tigers record with Cabrera on the team: 88-74 (.543) As noted before, this would have been good for 4th place in the AL West.

Conclusion: your argument sucks.

Who is Peter Bujois?

I'd be all for getting Madson back. It would sure be nice to have his consistent competence in the 8th inning. Assuming he would be as consistent as he was in the past.

One more thing: Thank heavens they didn't trade Hamels or Lee. Or Rollins.

GBrett, Bourjos is the backup CF for the Angels, and is considered by many to be the best (if at least most "rangey") CF in baseball.

For as good a CF as Trout is, Bourjos is better, and late in games, Trout would be moved to one of the corners, with Bourjos taking over in CF.

Fatalotti: I hate to break it to you, kid, but baseball is not a computer simulation.

You don't know what the Angels would have done with Trout over a full season, nor can you do anything else but guess if Trout's performance would have held up.

If the MVP was awarded on what might have been, Bo Jackson should have been the MVP for the first half of the 1990s. The MVP is awarded on what DID happen, not what a bunch of stat junkies speculate on the internet.

What did happen:
1. Cabrera won the Triple Crown.
2. The Tigers won the AL Central.

Everything else is pointless banter for internet chatrooms and fantasy baseball enthusiasts. Cabrera brought value to his championship team. Trout had a very impressive rookie season on a losing ballclub. And that's that, no matter what SABR spin you want to put on it.

can_of_corn, Dubee certainly doesn't have the reputation that Duncan had, that's for sure. However, I have heard him credited for incorporating the cutter into most of the pitchers' repertoires. Outside of that, you're right. I don't hear much that he brings to the table.

I don't want to get sucked into the Trout/Cabrera debate, as quite frankly I don't care which guy that I'll never meet gets a trophy to put in his multimillion dollar estate. But to think that a baseball writer will look at any hard-and-fast statistic as his primary input for a vote is naive. These guys LIVE to be PART of the story, not just report it. They're ALL already scripting up their bloated reason for the way they voted, as if they're going to convince a single other sole (not much different from the Presidential debate in that regard).

These guys are all looking for a way to stand out from everyone else. I've already heard from guys whose logic that Trout will win many more is a large consideration. Guys have said that having Pujols as protection is a consideration. Basically, the award is more about this controversy than anything else. And to be honest, why change it? It's had people yammering and yelling on something that otherwise would get no attention for weeks now. At the end of the day, without looking it up, name who won AL MVP in 1995. Exactly. No one will remember or care, except for the guy who has a great conversation starter on his mantle.

Hahaha, his "championship team"!

His team won the weakest division in baseball. Praiseworthy accomplishment, but not enough to offset the difference in value added to their teams due to their skills/production.

To reduce to an absurd argument, imagine a basketball player who scores 60 points a game, but is surrounded by 11 other guys who score 2 points a game versus a basketball player who scored 30 points a game, but is surrounded by 11 other guys who score 7 points a game. Player B makes it to the playoffs, while player A doesn't. Did Player B really add more value to his team just because he was surrounded by better players? Of course not. So, obviously just stating that Cabrera's team won its division while Trout's didn't, despite the fact that Trout's team won more actual games in a much tougher division, is just a weak argument. And the reason the Angels recovered from a 6-14 start to actually win more games than the Tigers, and be contenders down the stretch is precisely because of Trout.

As for the Triple Crown, GREAT ACHIEVEMENT. Unfortunately, it's 3 stats, and doesn't tell the whole story. I suppose it's just inherent wisdom that RBI are more important than runs. That the fact that Trout was the better hitter by OPS+ and wRC+/wOBA is just negated by the fact that Cabrera led the league in 3 categories? That Trout actually bested Cabrera in OBP, which is a better statistical measure than BA? All this should be ignored, including defense and baserunning?

Thanks for educating me.

BTW, 1995 AL MVP was Mo Vaughn. I had to look it up and I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to find out he actually ate the award on a bender back in 2003 or so...

JW: I'm not buying. Talented players play well. Leo Mazzone was a genius ... until he worked for a team w/ no viable pitchers. Furthermore, whenever Phillies players have been asked about their successes they credit teammates, not coaching. Factor in the manner in which the pitching staff -- both in-game & overall -- has been handled, & I think Dubee's as much of a boob as Charlie.

Also, Happ? Happ is not a good example of anything, save perhaps a player everyone knew was gonna nose dive into well-deserved obscurity, & did so.

If Dubee wants to impress he should work on ironing out Bastardo, Aumont & Diekman. They all have great potential, but lack consistent control. Coach 'em up, Rich.

Hell, I figured he'd pawn the award for food money considering.

I suspect d00bee will go when Charlie goes.

I just looked up MVPs today, and still, the only one for which I can state both name and year is George Brett in 1980, which you would expect me to remember. That was the year he flirted with .400 for a long time, after all.

Whoever wins is fine with me. Triple Crown is very impressive to me. Mike Trout is also impressive.

Re: Trading Lee.. I advicated this at the deadline and I got roasted for it. I STILL think it's a REAL possibility if and ONLY if we get any combination of young SP, 3B or OFers.. Even if the Phils had to eat a portion of his salary.. (which really doesn't usually happen in off-season trades).

Almost as impressive as Trout's 10 WAR season at Age 20...Harper posted a 5 bWAR season as a 19 year old.

I wonder what he'll do next year...

Also, selling high on Kendrick wouldn't be a bad idea for Amaro to consider

Fata and Edmundo: I think your love for WAR as the end-all, be-all, perfect stat

I'll speak for myself here, you are full of **** on this point.

I, for one, love the subjectivity of MVP voting because it allows posts like BAP's in the previous thread. Cabrera wins MVP because he is the coolest. I loved that Rollins beat out Holliday and not just because he plays for my team. I also love statistical arguments over which player had the better season.

Whatever. Accept the MVP award for what it is: a bunch of writers from different places with different ideas of what 'value' means voting for who they think provided the most of it.

2008-2012 fWAR:

1. Clifton Lee: 32.5
2. Roy Halladay: 32.0
11. Cole Hamels: 21.1

Kinda cool.

Dubee has been Hamels' pitching coach his entire career. So you're saying Dubee doesn't deserve credit for helping add a third pitch to Hamels' repertoire? Just a boob, right? And Kendrick did not benefit from Dubee either, right?

Well, to be fair, Lee and Doc helped out Hamels and KK respectively.

Though Dubee helped out Doc with his changeup when he came here from Toronto.

"Harper posted a 5 bWAR season as a 19 year old . . .I wonder what he'll do next year..."

My guess is that he'll be a legitimate MVP contender and he'll replace Chipper Jones as the No. 1 Phillie killer in baseball.

It's about more than teaching a pitch. KK learned his change-up grip from noted ace Justin Lehr. Look - just saying that 2008 to now the pitching has been pretty special. Dubee's been here through it all and seems to have the Phillies' trust. Think about it - they could probably have any pitching coach they want.

I thought I was the no.1 Phillie killer

Phillie killer McCann isn't even getting the start tomorrow against St. Louis.

That's cause the Braves are smug enough to "save" McCann for the NLDS. Hope the bastar*s lose

I wonder if the Braves draw more than 30,000 tomorrow.

I wouldn't say Dubee is a 'boob.' Yeah he has had a lot of talent to work with the results up until this year have been pretty decent since '05.

I'm glad that Nichols got promoted to be the bullpen coach. One area where the Phils have struggled a bit is to develop relievers during Dubee's tenure here. Nichols seems like he got very solid results in Lehigh the last few years with the relievers the Phils have had with the latest example being Horst.

Fata, thanks for answering me about Peter Burjos (incl. spelling of his name - Spanish, not French). Sounds like a player worth being interested in - - that is, if he can hit. I'm off to look him up now.

"Angels record with Trout on the team: 83-59 (.584) Over a full season, this would have won the Angels 95 games, and the AL West."

This is the funniest thing about saber-lovers.

They compare what someone might theoretically have done had he played more games to what someone else actually did. And to top it off, that is how they measure someone's "value" - by virtue of some theoretical vision of what that person might have done if the situation had been different.

It's like when they diminish Howard's value by saying that someone else might have had as many RBI had they been hitting in his spot for the Phillies. Somehow, in their minds, what someone else might have done detracts from what Howard actually accomplished.

It's nearly impossible to judge the quality of the coaches who were let go. Best indication will be whether they get another MLB coaching job or not. If they don't, you can tell other teams don't think much of them either.

Last time I got in an argument about that was with Chuck LaMar and Phlipper. I argued he was a 'good 'ole boy' hire the Phils' management is pretty notorious for and that you could judge what other teams really thought of him when he resigned last Sept.

Well turns he didn't get an Assistant GM job or even a head of scouting job. Instead he took a 'special assistant for amateur scouting' with the Blue Jays which was a clear demotion from what he had with the Phils.

Hm. He didn't have a good year, this Burjos. And he was initially slated for off-season hip surgery, although that is no longer the plan.

Best part of the Braves or Cards playing a one-game playoff game is that one is eliminated. Disliked the Braves in a major way since '93 and never a huge Cards fan either.

If anyone wins in the NL, I am pulling for the Reds. Wouldn't mind seeing the Nats win either.

***It's about more than teaching a pitch.***

I was joking mostly. Dubee is a good pitching coach for the most part.

"I think Dubee's as much of a boob as Charlie."

More of the same basic argument. Because GTown thinks that someone else might have done better, in his mind, allows him to discount the proven accomplishments of Dubee.

For a number of years in row, prior to this season, I look at the Phils' pitching staff at the beginning of seasons, and by the end of the season I see a staff outperforming expectations. Myers, Happ, Park, Moyer, Durbin, Worley, Bastardo, Madson, and many other pitchers as well, outperformed my expectations and I would say those of most "experts."

Continued desire to trade JRoll is just odd especially with how he finished the season.

Only reason I can think of that the Phils are so vehement to move him is that something major happened this year behind the scenes that caused the Phils to sour on him so badly.

Been one of the more stranger stories the past few months for the Phils.

"Last time I got in an argument about that was with Chuck LaMar and Phlipper"

Huh? Remind me of when we had that argument, if you don't mind? And could you tell me what I actually argued?

And after that, maybe you could get around to that bet you welched on?

Where is the info coming from that the Phils are "vehement" to trade J-Roll?

The fact that Dubee can teach something to Halladay that improves his repertoire is impressive. Dubee has seemed to be a cutter guy who teaches that pitch, along with the changeup. That's a decent contribution and, he's hilarious with his impatient trips to the mound when Kendrick nibbles the first time through the lineup.

It's hard to judge coaches even slightly accurately. Not going to question the Phils trust in Dubee. The fact that Dubee can teach something to Halladay that improves his repertoire is impressive. Dubee has seemed to be a cutter guy who teaches that pitch, along with the changeup. That's a decent contribution and, he's hilarious with his impatient trips to the mound when Kendrick nibbles the first time through the lineup.

With that said, I wonder where Weitzel gets the conclusion that Sandberg is a gifted coach. Hope he's right. If it's a categorical fact, though, I wouldn't expect him to coach 3B next season.

For all the carping about Cholly's shaky in-game decisions, baseball managers really don't make that much of a difference.

Hell, AL managers can go to sleep until the 5th inning most nights because of the DH.

Jim Salisbury ‏@JSalisburyCSN
Manuel does not see Ryno as threat. I believe him because I think Charlie will retire into D. Green role after '13

Why the hell would UC see him as a threat? UC is a 70 year old man who is the winningest manager in franchise history. Last year is his last year and he's probably 100% okay with that.

I thought Fatalotti's "there is no debate" post was a over the top ridiculous. Then, I read Schweitzer's and Phlipper's reactionary posts. Just alot of internet muscle flexing.

I acknowledge the fact that team success and traditional stats are large factors in the actual voting. I think the former is a bit overblown in the average case and misapplied where the playoff team wasn't as good as the non-playoff team in terms of wins and losses. I don't see that Cabrera has a real edge in traditional stats, if he has any. I think the 377 total bases has a lot of weight and, I do credit him for an appreciable additional number of games played.

I think, on balance, I'd give the award to Trout because he had a singularly great year. Hard to do that for a five month player, though and, I won't squawk, if the award was given to Cabrera who was truly a dominant offensive force this season. The Triple Crown, though, is it's own unofficial award. It needs no MVP to validate it.

"Only reason I can think of that the Phils are so vehement to move him is that something major happened this year behind the scenes that caused the Phils to sour on him so badly."

I doubt the Phillies are vehement about trading Rollins especially considering his second half and his long status as a Phillie. They also just resigned him last year to a longterm contract. I do have a close relative who is in the Phillies clubhouse for all the home games (no road games) and since it has a couple of times been alluded to even in the paper press, I feel free to say from his accounting that there was some uneasiness with the Victorino/Rollins bloc which dominated the clubhouse without the moderating influence of Chase Utley whom all the players respect. Some other veterans were getting annoyed with all their laughter and upbeat chatter after the losses were mounting in June and with the blaring of the hip-hop music. It was addressed and everything did get better. Still, unless there are no other options that could improve the Phillies, I doubt Amaro goes the route of bringing Victorino back. As he said on one of the pre-game shows on radio with Jim Jackson in September when the Phillies were doing well for a period of time - he did think that some changes in the clubhouse had been needed during the season. Of course he didn't mention any names but he wasn't referring to Hunter Pence, Jim Thome, or Joe Blanton.

Vehement was a poor adjective but I was surprised that Salisbury would speculate they would dangle JRoll again this offseason.

It sounded today from Amaro's conference that he doesn't view Galvis as a starter but as a fallback option especially for Utley at 2B if he is out again.

It also sounded like the Phils are going to try to target a trade to get a 3B. Your guess is as good as mine on who that would be at this point. Doubt it is Headley for several reasons though.

I wouldn't mind though if the Phils opened the season next year with Frandsen and Galvis as their infield bench players.

What would the Phils have to get in return to make trading Rollins a worthwhile move? You're not trading from a position of strength there. You're opening an even bigger offensive hole in the IF, removing a 20+ HR, GG-levelish SS, and a guy who continues to perform to career norms into his mid-30s.

Seems like the only reason to trade Rollins is if 2013 looks like 2012 and then we're talking prospects.

They "dangled" him, but I'm not reading more into it than that. Just not a move that makes sense.

The Phils dangled Rollins like they tried out Utley at 3B.

There is some good stuff going on in the past two threads- not kidding or being sarcastic.. there is.

The guys arguing with Fatalotti need to know he isn't going to move off his position. Fangraphs told him something and he will stick with it. And before you fly off the handle and post back Fatalotti know this- I think it is fine you think that way. Simple fact though is that there is a legitimate debate on this. Some have argued that this is a new school vs old school stat race but it is more than that.

Trout had an otherworldly season. The list of young guys that have put up his type of numbers is considerably low, and for good reason. What he did and what he produced is unheard of. And I think in just about any year of baseball he would be a slam dunk, no doubt about it MVP pick. The problem is that Miguel Cabrera had a phenomenal season as well. The list of Triple Crown winners is very small too, and the feat hasn't been accomplished in 45 years. And people can harp on RBI's and AVG as stats but the simple fact is- leading all three of those categories is incredibly hard. Especially in this day and age where scouting reports are far more advanced and there are many more specialists involved in the game to take big bats like Miggy's out of the game.

I think two things will work in Miggy's favor:

1.) There will be a lot of sportswriters (rightly or wrongly) that will want to vote for a Triple Crown winner because for many this will be a once in their lifetime type deal.

2.) No sport is as devoted to their history as baseball. And the Triple Crown is still a huge deal. That will carry a ton of weight with the voters. That isn't a knock on Trout or what he did either.


On Dubee: I think he gets some flack like Charlie where people like to say "Well look at the talent he had." Simple truth is that talent or not, Dubee has helped out pitching staff be incredibly solid over the last 6-7 years. Kendrick developing is on him, Cole developing is on him, guys like Myers, Madson, Worley- are on him. The mark for me though is that even getting in accomplished guys like Lee and Halladay he has helped them refine aspects of their game to be even better pitchers. I think he deserves the same rope Charlie had this year. He had a triple A bullpen for much of the year and even then they showed flashes of competence. That shouldn't go unnoticed.

Right, Sophist. Even if they traded for someone who could replace Rollins' production - say a 3Bman, for example - that doesn't ADD to the offense, it only substitutes one producer for another, and we'd still need more offense elsewhere.

Just spitballing but, do the Mets have the ability to exercise Wright's option and then trade him? Or, did I miss the news of his extension? Would expect to lose somethings dear to get him but, makes sense to me from a 2013 perspective.

Horst didnt that dude come from the Reds organization? I dont think the other guy had much to do with Horst's development.

There are triple crown winners who didn't win MVP. Pretty sure Chuck Klein did as a Phillie and didn't get MVP. I don't think Ted Williams won MVP in either one of this TC seasons.

GBrett - Yeah, they'd have to trade for a need they couldn't sign, and then sign someone to replace Rollins. Or something.

Sophist, since they've been giving MVPs, 4 of 10 triple crown winners didn't win MVP. Williams twice in the 40s (to DiMaggio and Joe Gordon (?)), Gehrig in '34 (5th place after Cochrane and others) and Klein in '33 (Hubbel). Last 3 have been nearly unanimous, though.

Thank God people called out GTown for the comment about Dubee. There is too much 'so and so is a moron/boob' that goes on with the coaching staff that is just flat out not backed up by facts. Dubee's success with the pitching staff through his tenure here can't even be questioned. There have been some great success stories with guys that came to the team with limited skill sets (Kendrick and Happ are prime examples).

Too many times people slam the coaches either because the players fail (which 99% of the time is on the players), or because they think they could do a better job through an inflated sense of self. The WIP Mentality.

Why do I have the feeling that Sandberg takes a job managing elsewhere and the Phillies' plan of succession goes down the drain?

I don't think anyone knows how 'vehemently' they want to trade Rollins, but Salisbury is not a source to be ignored like Rosenthal. He said what he said because he has many sources in the front office that know what's being talked about as far as trade possibilities. This is the third separate report about Rollins being on the table. They might not be 'vehement' about it, but it is certainly an option they are seriously considering. And I'd have to think Galvis is who they see as the successor.

Also, I groaned and the mention of Bourjois as trade possibility only with the thought that he'd have a starting role. If they managed to snag him to replace Pierre or something, and not give up a huge piece in return, that would be a really nice acquisition.

So Trout's WAR is higher than Cabrera's WAR.
All that proves to me is that Detroit has better replacement players than the Angels do.
In fact Cabrera was replaced at first base this year by Prince Fielder so that proves my theory. Who did the Angels have? That BoreJoe dude they tried to pawn off on RAJ for Lee or Hamels? No Thanks.
Saber shlaber!
Triple F**ing Batting Crown ain't been done in over 40 years and is more rare than some young punk stealing bases. Hell nobody's been coaching pitchers how to do a proper pickoff move since Vince Coleman retired anyway. Now that they know Trout's so damn valuable cause he's stealing so much just wait and see how many times he gets caught stealing going forward. He sure would have liked to have gotten to 50 SBs last night and look what happened then?
Fried Trout.
Miggy for AL MVP 2012.

Dammit, you know you're wrong when will and phlipper agree with you. OK I change my vote to trout.

Not only did Williams not win MVP in either of his triple crown seasons; he also didn't win it during the year when he hit .406.

And, b_a_P, he still won it twice.

That seems wrong, BAP. I'd say the moral of the story is don't bite the hand of the people who vote for awards. I don't think his confidence suffered any, though. I remember that when Brett was chasing .400, Williams said he believed he could still do it.

I guess they had some GD valuable players in the 40s.

Humans are getting in the way of baseball.

Hugh: Yep. And finished 2nd in all 3 of those years that I just mentioned.

GBrett: He hit .406 in 1941. That was also the year that Joe Dimaggio hit in 56 straight. Dimaggio's record probably seemed like a much bigger deal at the time because, back in those days, hitting .400 wasn't THAT out of the ordinary. Bill Terry had done it 11 years earlier, and several guys had done it during the decade before that. Dimaggio was also a much better defensive outfielder than Williams and had the obvious advantage of playing for the Yankees. Don't ask me what their WARs were, though.

Wiliams didn't win because he hated reporters generally and treated them poorly. They responded in kind.

Williams tended to not win the award when the Yankees won the pennant and, to win it when the Sox won. I think '49 was the exception but, that was teh one year of the 7 in which he was a top 3 vote getter that the Sox finished a close second to the Yanks (1 behind). Amazing that all seven of his 'best' years (41, 42, 46, 47, 48, 49, 57) were 1-2 finishes for those teams.

I've always figured that, if someone could hit .390 (as Brett did in 1980) or .394 (as Gwynn did in 1994), then someone can hit .400. I haven't seen any player since Gwynn, though, who I thought could make a run at it. Trout might actually be the best candidate to do it since Gwynn.

MG: Yeah, that probably had something to do with it -- although reporters didn't like Barry Bonds either, and he won a boatload of MVPs.

I think New York media bias had something to do with it too.

@Meyer: With all the fangraphs nonsense, it seems as if the SABR crowd would prefer that we don't waste all of this time with the post season. They're a few decades away from plugging data into a computer, compiling a list of the top 25 players according to whichever of the two dozen WAR formula that they're genuflecting to at the moment and have World Series rings crafted for them.

Jim Salisbury ‏@JSalisburyCSN
Phillies interested in Stairs, Sweeney as hitting aide.

Or Thome, if he retires, per the article.

I love all three of these guys.

Speaking of Brett, I'd love him for a hitting coach. But he likes working with young kids, I heard him say a few years ago, and he's been with the Royals organization his whole life. Schmidt has no interest in coaching, I guess?

It's easier to hire coaches than players, I think. Going to be much harder to fill 3B and the OF - or just plain expensive. Same for 8th inning stability (potentially expensive, that is).

Schmidt always helps out during Spring Training, but I'd venture to say he probably doesn't want to devote a whole season away from his family.

Also, bringing up Sweeney makes me sad, because then I remember this:

I read recently that DURING Joe's 56 game streak, Ted hit for a higher avg.

Ryno will be at 3B only half the game. Rube said he will be in charge of defensive alignment when the Phils are on the field, and manage when Cholly is booted or absent. These are both bench coach duties.

Getting worked up over post-season awards is setting yourself up for misery when your guy doesn't win. The Ted Williams votes taught me early in life that life is not fair.

Glad to see Nichols promoted, and he will be good for all the young guys in the pen. Why is Mick moving to the bench? Doesn't he catch the guys warming up? And his binoculars have no value on the bench.

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EST. 2005

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