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Tuesday, September 25, 2012

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I agree Weitz! I love the man. Bring him back

RAJ should wait and play the market. Because of the deep market and injury/aging concerns, Vic may fall through the cracks and be available on a one-year, make-good deal like Beltre a few years back. If that happens, I'd love to see Vic back.

Knowing RAJ, he will give him 3 years and 45 million...

Would like to see him back for the right price and if he promises to only hit from the right side.

JW, I don't think there's less "enthusiasm" for VI.

I thin it's more of a recognition that Vic seems to have priced himself out of the Phils future plans.

If the reports were correct that he wanted 5 years, and - like any player with an ego - he wanted a raise, he was probably looking for 5-6/$11-13MM (educated guess on my part).

If that's the case, with the other needs they have, and Gillies (a subject of your previous thread) showing more promise recently, does it make sense to commit those kinds ofdollars and years to a player who, in your own words, is "trending downward over a season and change."

NO

If i'm Vic and his agent, I go for a 1yr deal, and try to cash in again in 2013 (assuming someone isn't offering him some $30M deal).

Not only will he have a chance to improve his stock, but he'll be compared with a much less talented class of CF options.

*IF* the Phillies can use the savings of grabbing Vic on a 1yr deal to improve elsewhere, then I am on board with this move as well.

Somebody's gonna get a great bargain by signing Vic. Why can't us?

If I were a GM looking for a CF, Vic would likely be 4th or 5th on my list...thus, he could end up being the super undervalued guy brought back on a pittance.

I'd like Vic on the cheap, only if it meant the saved money was used on some more reliable offense at one of the other positions of need (Hamilton?).

I guess my definition of "boon" is slightly different. I mean, I could buy a used tape deck at a pretty decent rate, too. That doesn't mean it has much useful life left in it...

Get the sense that Amaro has little love loss for players he deals away with Lee being the obvious exception. That move was forced on Amaro though.

Why I put the chances of Madson coming back here at basically 0% (in part because of the way the negotiations unfolded) and the odds on Vic as very slim.

Say his chances of coming back here are ~10%; Extremely unlikely.

He's always been better vs. LHP, but Vic put up a .270/.333/.455 line vs. RHP in 2011, so he's capable of hitting righties. I'm guessing that wrist injury has been a big part of it.

Someone asked about the WSox options at 3B. Before Youkilis they had Brent Morel playing there. He's hit .177/.225/.195 in 35 games.

MG, I guess I see it the other way. Vic very much loves Philly and has even suggested a possible return next year. He was legitimately bummed to be traded. I actually see a potential return as being much more likely than 10%, assuming RAJ feels he's getting some sort of discount (which he might when he sees what the other CF options are getting paid).

Colonel: It's the .229/.295/.329 against righties in 2012 that concerns me.

And, to refresh memories, I am on record on this board as being a Vic fan...a big one.

I'm just not sure he'll be worth the dollars and years he might get, especially when the Phils have toher holes to fill.

Also, I suggest the Phils spend about $100K on a hypnotist, fake calendar and fake calendar watch for Mayberry, so that every day when he wakes up he think it's the second half of the season.

If you assured me that we'd be getting the Shane Victorino of 2008-2011, he would probably be my No. 1 off-season target. I don't know, though. I'm pretty leery. I'd like him considerably more if he would agreed to at least TRY ditching the switch-hitting act.

Tonight's Lineup: Rollins (SS), Mayberry (CF), Utley (2B), Howard (1B), Ruiz (C), Brown (RF), Ruf (LF), Frandsen (3B), Hamels (P).

Gettin' Ruf.

Vic is definitely not going to be their main acquisition this offseason, but as long as that big move isn't a CF, than I think Vic has a much more realistic chance of rejoining the Phillies than 10%.

Curious to see if Vic has offseason surgery or not on his wrist.

On a 1-yr deal (say $7.5 or 8M base with incentive-upside), I would like to have him back if he frees up cash to upgrade other spots.

Also, if r00b's idea of making this team competitive again is to shift Utley to 3B, make Galvis the everyday 2B, & bring back Vic in CF, this will indeed have been the most complete failure of an offseason imaginable.

MG is a hall of fame poster and a constant source of information but when he says stuff like "Get the sense that Amaro has little love loss for players he deals away," I wonder if he's as much of a weed enthusiast as he claims he used to be. I mean, where do you even come up with something like that?

Ruf getting a start is the official white flag. I'm surprised we're not seeing the Utley 3B experiment, actually.

GTown, bringing Vic back in Cf only works if he's healthy and cheap.

Agree on Galvis and Utley.


Question for the board:

Which be more valuable - Frandsen at 2B or 3B with his .262/.319/.353 slash line, or Galvis' glove at either position and any reasonable projection of a slash line you'd care to assign?


(And that's not saying I think Frandsen is an everyday player.)

All eyes on Ruf in LF tonight. A lot of people have said "he can't be THAT bad" - we shall see.

"Also, if r00b's idea of making this team competitive again is to shift Utley to 3B, make Galvis the everyday 2B, & bring back Vic in CF, this will indeed have been the most complete failure of an offseason imaginable."

Actually, GTown, it would only be the SECOND largest failure of an off season imaginable. The first would include exercising Polly's option, with the expectation that he's the starting 3B next year.

Time to start moving forward and get younger.

awh, so essentially it's the whole "can his glove offset a significant offensive ineptitude" conversation again.

I seem to recall us never really coming to a conclusion when we kicked it around the last time regarding Greg Dobbs vs. Wes Helms/Eric Bruntlett 3B debate.

WP, Ruf getting the start is the white falg, but what bothers me is it shouldn't be.

Could ruf have been worse than this?:

.209/.293/.352, 280 PA - Wiggy's slash line since May 1st

.150/.346/.400, 26 PA - Wiggy since Sept 1st (OBP and SLG are OK because of a HR and 3 BB in one game).

awh: I thin Frandsen will give you more value in 2013 at either position. Galvis' offense is just way too underdeveloped to be in the bigs for his defense to offset it enough at 2B/3B.

Galvis is still a prospect and should be treated like one, he deserves an opportunity to mature AA/AAA and learn how to hit. The kid showed enough pop to have a chance, but his plate discipline and pitch recognition were just unbearable.

Galvis doesn't have to be an all-glove no-bat player, theres still hope. Don't force him to crumble at the MLB level just so chase utley can make 30 throwing errors next year.

WP, exactly!

Which player wins the team more games?

awh: Neither Frandsen nor Galvis should be starting for a MLB team. That said, I'd venture Frandsen's OK (3B) glove & OK bat would be more "valuable" to the Phillies than Gavis' great (2B) glove & non-existent bat.

(Not to put too fine of a point on it, but I'd really rather have None of the Above, but I'm attempting in good faith to answer the question as asked.)

Preacher: You are correct ... although even I cannot conceive of r00b being that stupid.

Weitzel - when is the St. Vincent/David Byrne album going to show up on the right hand side?

As ludicrous as I find this whole Utley-to-3rd idea to be, I wish the Phillies would hurry up & give the experiment a try. The worst possible outcome is that they plan their off-season around the idea, only to have him come out in spring training and immediately fail spectacularly. Better to get the spectacular failing out of the way now, before they rely on the idea to their detriment.

I wonder if we'll see a new group called the Ruffians tonight. That would be cool.

I'm with BAP. If you're going to try Utley at 3B, why not now. Firstly, the game means next to nothing. Secondly, at least you know you have a (relatively) healthy Utley to experiment with. Who the hell knows if he's healthy to start Spring Training next season?

BTW, that last sentence is reason enough not to ignore a contingency plan for both 2B and 3B next year...

JW's recalling Game 1 of the 2010 NLDS. I recall Game 4 of the 2011 NLDS.

new thread

Zolecki: "Manuel said Halladay will throw a bullpen tomorrow. After that TBD."

Unfortunately, this means the Phillies' crack medical staff are going to have Roy attempt to throw an actual Major League bullpen, players, coaches & all. Gotta help regain that arm strength so he can pitch both ends of any double-headers which might arise.

s

If we could sign the Vic from 2009-2011, then, OF COURSE. But, the Vic of 2012 is not that player. The no hit inconsistent field 2012 version is not what I want in CF. I don't want Mabyeberry or Not So Sureholtz as the everyday options out there either.

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